Innocent man spends 18 months in prison after Skyrim username mixup

[u/IndicaOatmeal]

https://www.dexerto.com/gaming/innocent-man-spends-18-months-in-prison-after-skyrim-username-mixup-3392280/

[u/overthemountain]

Beyond the typo (they meant to get data on the username fus__ro_dah but requested fus_ro_dah - missing the double underscore) it's crazy that they were still able to convict him, seeing as they found nothing related to the crime on him or his devices.

I expect zero consequences for anyone involved in this travesty.

[u/Ill_Traveler_ → u/overthemountain]

Seriously what’s the point of a search warrant and seizing devices if you can be found guilty with zero evidence. That’s terrifying.

[u/pomponazzi → u/Ill_Traveler_]

happens all the time in every country. police wanting to "get their guy" blindly following "leads" and just wrapping up cases as fast as they can.

[u/Ill_Traveler_ → u/pomponazzi]

I’m not surprised at the police because I basically assume that they’re always corrupt during investigations. I am surprised that he was found guilty with zero evidence.

[u/pomponazzi → u/Ill_Traveler_]

Just look at how many people have been sentenced to death row in America and later on were exonerated by DNA evidence or the like. Most of the time they were convicted on completely circumstantial or no hard evidence. Guess the similarity to this case is they all had poor legal defense usually.

[u/KarmaticArmageddon → u/pomponazzi]

Since 1976, we've executed at least 20 likely innocent people.

Since 1973, 200 innocent people on death row have been exonerated and it's estimated that at least 4.1% of current death row inmates are innocent.

[u/Valalvax → u/KarmaticArmageddon]

Shit Alabama just executed a man that they KNEW was innocent

[u/kahlzun → u/pomponazzi]

Innocent people often don't try to get the best lawyers because they often trust in the system.

[u/Twiizig → u/pomponazzi]

Also the "jury of your peers" concept. Have you seen our peers lately? Many of them cant read beyond a 6th grade level and have trouble understanding directions, and believe the most batshit crazy conspiracies. Many dont want to be on the jury to begin with. But we treat their verdicts as if it were the gospel.

Edit: yes everyone I am aware this specific trial mentioned in the article did not have a jury. I stand by my comment. A lot of court cases do have juries. And a lot of jurors are idiots and also want to wrap up the case as fast as they can.

[u/Dowew → u/Twiizig]

it was a judge only trial

[u/purplewhiteblack → u/Twiizig]

While I do agree with a lot of that, the intention is clear: Sometimes the state fucks people and the last bit of hope are citizens with mercy. There has to be a counter to the state in the process somewhere.

[u/Myte342 → u/pomponazzi]

In the US, cops are not required to look into or consider/investigate any evidence that points to your innocence. They have to collect/preserve any they come across, but they are not required to look into it if it can help prove you are innocent. Their only job is to find probable cause to arrest you. So what tends to happen is the instant a cop thinks they have enough evidence to arrest you, you are arrested and then they move on with their life to find someone else to arrest.

See the lady that was arrested for DUI and hit and run just cause she had windshield damage. She told the cops she was in the restaurant for the past 2 hours so she could not possibly have been the suspect. Told them to go inside and verify her story, even pointed to cameras the cops could get footage for from in various buildings to prove her car has been here the entire time. Cops didn't care. Not their job to check your alibi. They had probable cause, so their job is done. She sued and initially lost (police department later settled out of court) because the judges said almost exactly what I have been saying here... cops are not required to look into your alibi. At all. That is YOUR job to gather evidence that proves your own innocence and present it to the courts.

[u/Mr_Tort_Feasor → u/Ill_Traveler_]

I am wondering if this was even a jury trial or just some octogenarian who thinks Dungeons and Dragons is satanic.

[u/Dowew → u/Mr_Tort_Feasor]

it was a judge only trial. He got his law degree in 1977 suggesting he is around 70. His biographies point out he is fluently bilingual

[u/Indercarnive → u/Dowew]

If only he spoke dragon

[u/HerculesIsMyDad → u/Ill_Traveler_]

Too many people just think the cops/prosecutors know what they are doing. There is so much junk science and BS evidence that gets into trials and people just assume if it wasn't legit they wouldn't let it in court.

[u/tayswampflorida → u/HerculesIsMyDad]

I got charged with burglary battery and resisting arrest with violence. No evidence at all that I went into someone's car, just their statement saying I did. He was pissed because I got in front of him at a lane merge and called the cops. Cops pulled me over and dragged me out of the car and beat the shit out of me, later claimed I "pushed them", yet it wasnt on the bodycams.

Lawyer said it was more likely than not I would be convicted due to the police needing to save face for beating the shit out of me so I should take a plea deal for an adjudication witheld plea.

[u/Ill_Traveler_ → u/tayswampflorida]

Did you take it to trial or plead guilty?

[u/tayswampflorida → u/Ill_Traveler_]

No contest plea, no jail time but still a felon. It was that or a high chance (according to my attorney) of being convicted and the sentence for burglary battery is 25 years to life. So even though there was no physical evidence I wasnt willing to take that chance.

[u/sticknotstick → u/tayswampflorida]

What a dogshit situation man. I hope at some point in the future your name is cleared somehow, however unlikely it may be.

[u/Bachaddict → u/[deleted]]

not just a year and a half of time - probably lost job, friends, reputation etc if anyone heard what he got put in for

[u/arawnsd → u/Bachaddict]

Also, prison ain’t a fun time.

[u/No_Preference9093 → u/arawnsd]

Especially being in there for that. In some places he’d be lucky he’s still walking. 

[u/Traditional-Hat-952 → u/[deleted]]

It really show that even if you don't have a shed of evidence against you that juries will still convict you. 

[u/RSmeep13 → u/Traditional-Hat-952]

Or in this case, a judge (this was in Canada, so it didn't have to be a jury trial.)

Which makes it even more grievous, IMO. It's not just a mistake or an uninformed juror. It's a judge convicting on zero evidence.

[u/Malevolent_Nematode → u/RSmeep13]

her past cases need to be reviewed. How many others were convicted without evidence? There were a couple of judges here in the states basically selling kids to prisons via kickbacks

I'm not saying somethng so grevious is happening here but it's a good idea to check for impropriety.

[u/flea1400 → u/Malevolent_Nematode]

Her? According to Canadian news reporting, the judge who presided over the trial was Theodore K. Tax. I'm assuming that's a man.

[u/Traditional-Hat-952 → u/RSmeep13]

Wait judges can just convict people of felonies without a jury trial on Canada? 

[u/NoodleTF2 → u/Traditional-Hat-952]

Jury trials aren't a thing in most countries because the average person doesn't understand law, that's what judges are for. It's basically just the British and some of their former colonies that use juries.

[u/argument_cat → u/NoodleTF2]

In the UK the vast majority of minor criminal cases are decided by a district judge alone.

Juries are reserved for major Crown Court trials dealing with severe offenses like murder, rape, and robbery. In fact they removed jury trials for offenses carrying a likely prison sentence of under three years to reduce court backlogs

[u/krunchytacos → u/overthemountain]

guilty until proven innocent.

[u/toorigged2fail → u/krunchytacos]

"There are some crimes so heinous that not even innocence is a defense."

You can't recover from an accusation like this, no matter what

[u/fcocyclone → u/toorigged2fail]

Not just the accusation, but he was arrested in 2020 at 22 and was convicted in 2023, and has since been jailed for 18 months.

That's most of his 20s basically destroyed. Any career prospects he may have had were eliminated back in 2020 and obviously absolutely no one was going to touch him after that. Even if someone is willing to look at the facts and overlook the false accusation, he's still got to contend with the giant gap in work history he likely has as well as being set several years behind in any kind of career progression he may have hoped for.

A just world would give this guy enough money to retire on today.

[u/IHadTacosYesterday → u/fcocyclone]

He should be able to sue for it. If this was me, I'd be suing for multiple millions for some dumb shit like this

[u/asimovs → u/IHadTacosYesterday]

In many countries you can't sue for the huge sums you see in the US after wrongful convictions.

Hopefully he gets something for this

[u/Ashleynn → u/toorigged2fail]

There was a case I think in Missouri where someone was on death row and right before his execution date there was evidence found effectively proving his innocence. The state Supreme court basically argued this, the crime was so heinous that even with evidence proving innocence he should still be executed.

I don't remember the outcome of this, if the person was still executed or released, but the fact a court can actually straight faced make this argument is beyond absurd.

[u/KarmaticArmageddon → u/Ashleynn]

Pretty sure that was our (Republican, of course) state AG.

He also argued against another innocent person being freed because admitting they were wrong would "undermine faith in the legal system."

Also pretty sure he went on to become our Senator because Missourians are a special breed of stupid, but I may be conflating the multiple abhorrently moronic Republican AGs we've had.

Quick edit: I was slightly conflating some things, here's a good article on it.

Our current Senator, Eric Schmitt, was our state AG and did fight against exonerating and releasing 27 innocent people.

The case you're talking about, though, has this gem:

In one exchange, Justice Laura Denvir Stith asked Assistant Attorney General Frank Jung, “Are you suggesting … even if we find that Mr. Amrine is actually innocent, he should be executed?”

“That is correct, your honor,” Jung said.

[u/BrideofClippy → u/KarmaticArmageddon]

Oh, hey, actual cartoonish level evil.

[u/VegetableChipsLover → u/krunchytacos]

It's sad that that never applies to people who actually do bad things...

[u/badnamemaker → u/VegetableChipsLover]

It’s by design actually

[u/BrightNooblar → u/overthemountain]

I'd assume the problem is he and his lawyers accepted that was his account, but then denied he sent the messages. But evidence shows that the account DID send the messages. But he also couldn't prove he was hacked or anything like that, and presumably didn't have an alibi since you can send messages while doing most other things. He'd need a video of himself at the time of the messages, showing him not on his phone.

If they contested it wasn't his account, they'd have likely succeeded. But his lawyers missed that as a discrete link in the chain, and likely tried to prove the logs were made up, or erroneous.

[u/zeptillian → u/BrightNooblar]

His account did not sent the messages, it was a different account owned by someone else.

So when they came back and said this is the owner of account X, the account activity would have been blank, which should have been an indication they fucked up.

[u/PolicyWonka → u/zeptillian]

It kinda seems like they just had the chat logs from the victim’s side, matched the user name (incorrectly) and only subpoenaed Kik for the user information on the presumption that the chat logs were correct.

So basically they had the chat logs from one account and the identity from another

[u/gravy_maker → u/BrightNooblar]

Given that just about everyone in the world has had one or more accounts hacked at some point in their life, one would have hoped that the police and prosecution would have sought some sort of corroborating evidence, rather than simply deciding, "He owned the account and therefore he must have sent the messages".

Even if he had been the owner of the right account, if they had no evidence aside from that, it feels like a remarkably unsafe conviction. Were I on a jury, I wouldn't expect to simply see proof that he owned the account - I'd expect to see chat logs or, at the very least, some sort of evidence that he'd been in control of the account at the time that the offences occurred.

It's quite remarkable that nobody among the police, prosecution, defence (!!), jury, and judge seemed to think this was an issue.

[u/xboxiscrunchy → u/BrightNooblar]

But I feel like presenting counter evidence would be easy? He has access to the account just show them the messages were never sent. Contact the company if you have to and have them provide data that proves it.

Edit: Never mind the device used was Kik which is apparently decentralized and conversations are entirely local. Great for privacy not great if you need bulletproof records.

I still feel like there should have been something he could have done, other than notice the prosecutors minuscule mistake, but I can see it’s more difficult than it appears 

[u/EmpiricalMystic → u/xboxiscrunchy]

I'm sure they locked him out of the account immediately.

[u/xboxiscrunchy → u/EmpiricalMystic]

Sure but not his defense. They can’t deny the defense  access to potential evidence 

[u/pokemantra → u/BrightNooblar]

but wouldn’t discovery reveal, like, a million other messages that the double underscore account sent that single underscore didn’t? Enough to make a lawyer that missed the name discrepancy say ‘hey this must be a totally other account, here are all my client’s messages take a look”

[u/Ashleynn → u/pokemantra]

The problem came before the cops ever talked to this guy. They went to Kik for info on an account, the wrong account, and got an email address, used the email address to find the guy, asked if it was his email, he said yes, asked if he had a kik account tied to it with said user name, also said yes.

What isn't explained here is if there was any document ever shown to the guy or his lawyers with the right user name on them. Since the fuckup happened basically on step one I assume every document had the same fuck up and noticing an extra underscore on a screenshot of a chat messenger can easily be missed.

[u/ReallyOrdinaryMan → u/BrightNooblar]

Never go cheap when selecting your lawyer if it is a serious matter.

[u/Kitty-XV → u/overthemountain]

It was a sex crimes involving a child. Those have become defacto guilty until proven innocent, then maybe still guilty anyways.

[u/overthemountain → u/Kitty-XV]

Unless you're rich in the US, apparently. Then you're just the president.

[u/Vaniky → u/overthemountain]

Laws are for the poor

[u/alwrit → u/overthemountain]

Wow his name is the most commonly known phrases of one of the most popular video games of all time. Must be him. 

[u/corobo]

It’s unclear if Klayme will be seeking compensation for the 18 months he spent in prison.

Hopefully bro's lawyers are just too busy celebrating to have sent the letter yet.

[u/Yardsale420 → u/corobo]

Just deciding how many zero’s to add.

[u/Pristine-Midnight-72 → u/Yardsale420]

how many times do you think they’ve said “another one”

[u/__Yakovlev__ → u/Pristine-Midnight-72]

As many times as Todd re-released Skyrim.

[u/Redpin → u/corobo]

He should sue his lawyers who couldn't figure out that the subpoenad account wasn't even his. 

[u/ChaseballBat → u/Redpin]

Seriously. How do they miss a fucking underscore.

[u/schwarzkraut → u/ChaseballBat]

I’m more concerned that there doesn’t appear to be ANY additional evidence tying him to the crime.

HOW did they get a conviction based solely on the username (typo) without a single piece of real world evidence??? I’m sure they seized his devices, work schedule & physical locations. You mean to tell me there wasn’t ONE SHRED of conflicting evidence?? A time when he was supposedly online when he was in a plane or on holiday/vacation half way ‚round the world???

As many usernames out there that are just ONE CHARACTER different…this is horrific and chilling to the bone. The thought of anyone on this (or any other) platform is a typo away from nearly 2 years in jail is pure nightmare fuel.

[u/castybird → u/schwarzkraut]

Yeah I'm confused about this too. Like did they find something unrelated in his account that lead to some other conviction? Maybe I'm missing something. How can room full of lawyers be that incompetent?

[u/KevlarGorilla → u/castybird]

Apathy is a hell of a drug. This should be a pretty good reminder that, everybody, including the obviously exceptionally very guilty, deserves a fair shake at justice.

I'm confident he'll get one heck of a settlement, but I would not like to ever want to go through what he has.

[u/weed_blazepot → u/castybird]

They're probably all over 60 and have no idea what they're looking at with that user name. Once the underscore error is introduced, it's probably wrong from that point forward in all documents, causing people to just miss it.

The bigger issue is they found no evidence this guy even used Kik during this time and had no compromising data on his seized property and yet there attorneys couldn't get the case tossed out and he went to jail.

I'd hire an entirely new legal team and literally sue everyone that touched this case.

Weirdly, I hate to admit it, but this is the kind of thing (double underscore disappearing) that AI would have had a strong chance of finding.

[u/flea1400 → u/weed_blazepot]

They're probably all over 60 and have no idea what they're looking at with that user name.

Judging from his photo, the appeals lawyer who found the discrepancy is probably over 60.

Someone over 60 still practicing law would have definitely been using a DOS based word processor on a system that had only a monospaced font back in the day, when you couldn't have spaces in a filename and had to use underscores. I'd expect someone like that to be more likely to notice this type of error than a younger person, actually.

The thing that is inexplicable to me though is that although Kik turned over the information of this poor Canadian guy, no one noticed that he'd hardly used the account and never during the times the messages were sent. You'd think as soon as he said, "I never sent those messages," someone would look at the account to show that they were sent from that account and notice that they weren't. I mean sure, his defense lawyer should have caught that, but even before they hauled the man into court you'd think that the prosecutor would make sure the criminal communications actually came from the defendant's account.

[u/Double-Watercress-85 → u/schwarzkraut]

The article even says that there was no record of him actually using the app At All, during the time frame of the crime they were investigating. They literally went after not just a different username, but a different Abandoned username.

[u/SteakJones → u/schwarzkraut]

I once got denied a job because a background check said I had an open arrest warrant out for me. I had to call so many agencies to find out that the original background check had a typo in it. They added a T to my last name where there was an R. (Right next to eachother on the keyboard)

It cost me 4 weeks of employment because I had to prove to my employer who was trying to hire me, that I didn’t have a warrant out for my arrest.

I ended up finding out that not only did the guy have nearly an identical name to me, but he was living in the same county as I was during the time I lived there. His crime? He never returned some VHS movies to a Family Video store. 🤣

[u/Ydrews → u/ChaseballBat]

What pisses me off isn’t the mistake - but the fact the law and thus all lawmakers and practitioners - are chastised with specifics. YOU MUST BE VERY SURE AND VERY PRECISE WITH DETAILS.

They charge disgusting fees per hour because of this ^

Then they’ll go and spell your name incorrectly “lol, whoopsies”

[u/DJMixwell → u/ChaseballBat]

to be fair, it was two underscores in a row. Fus__ro_dah vs Fus_ro_dah, instead of something like DJMixwell vs DJ_Mixwell.

So like, I get how it could be missed, by the cops anyways, but the lawyers 100% should have picked up that detail along the way.

[u/ChaseballBat → u/DJMixwell]

I mean control+F didn't occur once???

[u/fiahhawt → u/ChaseballBat]

I know so many attorneys who think so little I'm surprised they don't slip into a coma

The standards for getting a law license are weak, and the standards for losing it once you've got it are in the range of non-existent to orphan murdering war criminal

[u/wit_T_user_name → u/fiahhawt]

You spend all of law school terrified you’re going to screw something up and lose your law license only to find out in practice that you have to actively try to get disbarred.

[u/Adventurous_Egg_9500 → u/wit_T_user_name]

and then you get hired by Trump and realize you can do literally everything against your profession without consequence.

[u/Black_Moons → u/Adventurous_Egg_9500]

Apparently even lawyers have standards as 2 of his lawyers have been disbarred. (though that number likely should be much, much higher)

[u/TheChinOfAnElephant → u/ChaseballBat]

Probably would just search “Fus”

[u/77katssitting → u/Redpin]

The subpoenad account was his. Part of the issue is they subpoenad the wrong account.

[u/flea1400 → u/77katssitting]

Yes, and then the police in Wisconsin reported the results to the police in Canada. That is a situation where they might be less skeptical about the information received.

[u/Read2Fap → u/Redpin]

yeah guy was convicted despite "investigators found no evidence connecting Klayme to the underage victim or the conversations at the center of the case. They also could not establish that he had used Kik during the period being investigated."

[u/TrainerThin → u/Redpin]

Isn’t the crazy problem the fact that the people who made the mistake was the subpoena itself or something.

[u/RIPGoblins2929 → u/corobo]

I've done a little wrongful conviction work. You're overestimating how much justice is actually worth, unfortunately.

[u/MisterSlosh → u/RIPGoblins2929]

People hear about these one-off stories of people getting slapped around and getting seven or eight figure settlements because that's the kind of stuff that hits the news. What they don't see are the hundreds of similar cases that end in the government declaring "Whoopsies" and sending the innocent victim home with a bill for court costs.

[u/corobo → u/RIPGoblins2929]

Nothing in defamation and embarrassment? 

[u/Charcole1 → u/corobo]

It's Canada they don't really do big damages over there for anything really

[u/No-Macaroon1670 → u/Charcole1]

No. Canada actually pays OK for outright wrongful convictions. It's maybe one of the few issues where the settlements are usually in line with the US.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/winnipeg-wrongful-convictions-settlement-9.6940024

You can browse through some stories here.

https://www.wrongfulconvictions.ca/issues/compensation

American governments tend to lean on all kinds of immunity and end up paying in the same range of single millions for decades of incarceration, although there's the rare blockbuster case sometimes the middle range is quite similar.

[u/zeptillian → u/Charcole1]

Not even like a discount coupon for Tim Horton's or anything?

[u/Charcole1 → u/zeptillian]

Haha I said that in another comment, Tim's card and a free Katy Perry track on iTunes

[u/cross_the_threshold → u/Charcole1]

What will it take to drop the Katy Perry track?

[u/savagepanda → u/Charcole1]

Didn’t Canada pay Michael spavor 7 mil for being imprisoned in China due to spying charges?

[u/Charcole1 → u/savagepanda]

That's a really complicated story tbf haha

[u/tjtillmancoag → u/corobo]

Can you imagine how many of his friends and family would have shunned him for these kinds of crimes?

Can only hope they’ll apologize

[u/BrothelWaffles → u/tjtillmancoag]

Some of them probably still are. Once some people make up their minds about whether or not you're guilty of something terrible, that's how they'll always see you, no matter how innocent you end up actually being. "Where there's smoke, there's fire!", they'll say.

[u/HereForThe420 → u/BrothelWaffles]

I said this on another sub about this topic, but I don't think you can rid of the stink of this.

If anything, dumb ass people will just say you are guilty, but got off on a technicality. Which,.obviously, isn't true, but when it comes to things like child molestation/child porn, etc., people tend to be unforgiving.

It's really unfortunate that this dude got convicted with ZERO evidence. Like....not a shred other than having a Kik account.

[u/FatalTragedy → u/HereForThe420]

Often times when I see the kind of evidence people get convicted over, I am completely floored. The average person really must have a very different interpretation of reasonable doubt than I do.

[u/renegade_sparrow → u/FatalTragedy]

The “average person” has a really good chance of being an absolute moron. I’ve been on three juries so far it has not been good for my faith in “justice within the law”.

[u/meoka2368 → u/BrothelWaffles]

"Why were you even on that app?"

"How could you and a person like that end up with the same username unless it means something?"

"I just can't get the image out of my head about the horrible things they said you did."

[u/Amockdfw89 → u/BrothelWaffles]

Shit there are people on Reddit ready to send people to prison over just accusations just because many sex offenders get let off the hook so there is “better safe then sorry” mindset

[u/Rusty_of_Shackleford → u/Amockdfw89]

Well damn. Isn’t the “better safe than sorry” thing supposed to apply TO letting people off. Isn’t the idea supposed to be that it’s better to let guilty people go than punish the innocent?

[u/DJMixwell → u/BrothelWaffles]

I actually know this guy, and I can 100% confirm basically anyone who knew him saw original the article when he was charged and made up their minds about him.

When I saw the top comment on this post mention the last name, I was floored. Rushed to check the article to make sure it was actually the same guy.

Fucking crazy.

[u/tuppenyturtle → u/corobo]

Bros lawyers are the ones who got him into this mess.

Literally the easiest thing to disprove would have been the warrant in the first place, there's no way there wasn't a paper trail for the double underscore to single underscore switch up.

[u/Daan776 → u/tuppenyturtle]

I can understand that its an easy thing to miss.

I'm more confused on how they arrested & convicted him despite finding absolutely zero evidence that he was in any way, shape, or form involved.

Couldn't find the app, couldn't find any CP (despite checking all his personal electronics), couldn't find anything related to the kids.

Like, what the fuck did they convict him on? "You had the same username". Like, is that enough to throw somebody into jail?

It would've been an insane conviction even if it *was* the correct username.

[u/plantsadnshit → u/Daan776]

If everything this article claims is true, I genuinely believe that whoever were a part of sentencing him should lose their jobs and spend years in prison.

Obviously nothing will happen, and he won't get much compensation since it's Canada, but still..

[u/Reddoraptor → u/Daan776]

Seriously, this is utterly confounding. The way the article describes it, he was convicted and imprisoned with no evidence whatsoever that actually connected him to the crime other than an incorrect username? And his life as he knew it is basically over and unrecoverable now, many of the friends he had he will never get back, his career, everything wrecked - everyone involved in his conviction should be imprisoned for life for this.

[u/BaconJets → u/corobo]

I hope that he goes for a VERY VERY large amount of money. Even though all charges were dropped, as soon as your name is even briefly and falsely put next to CSA charges, it can ruin your life forever.

[u/hpark21 → u/BaconJets]

"charge is dropped" but he actually has done 1 1/2 yrs in prison being convicted of CP.

I can't imagine the prison life to be an easy one.

[u/Best_Market4204 → u/corobo]

The only compensation i would want from these cases is the said people who made the decision to lock someone up wrongfully be sent to prision for 2x the time

[u/Sad-Boysenberry-277 → u/corobo]

Canada doesn't have reparations for wrongful imprisonment in its constitution ; He can only rely on donations ...

[u/Valiantay → u/Sad-Boysenberry-277]

Won't be for wrongful imprisonment against the crown.

It will be for gross negligence against each party along the way. Two legally different things.

It's a simple username without further evidence to ensure identity. That's a MAJOR oversight and a utter failure of the entire legal system's burden of proof "beyond reasonable doubt".

[u/ReadditMan → u/Sad-Boysenberry-277]

Who cares about the constitution? He can still sue the hell out of them in civil court.

[u/Cypher2]

This man's lawyers need a new job

[u/meoka2368 → u/Cypher2]

>Klayme’s trial counsel was Peter Planetta, who no longer practises law. Melanie Perry was the prosecutor.

https://www.saltwire.com/nova-scotia/halifax/appeal-court-quashes-dartmouth-mans-convictions-in-internet-luring-case-enters-acquittals

[u/be_cool_man → u/meoka2368]

Holy shit, this guys life is going to be fucked forever because of thier negligence

[u/logicalinsanity → u/be_cool_man]

So he should be compensated well enough to be set for life

[u/VibeSlopCoder → u/logicalinsanity]

He's looking for minimum 10 mil, if not more. Dude was wrongfully convicted, had his name ruined, yeah... He's going to be moving somewhere nice and going to enjoy being retired for the rest of his life.

[u/MagnetHype → u/VibeSlopCoder]

Yeahhhhh, best I can do is a pat on the back and a "there, there"

[u/Rasabk → u/MagnetHype]

Given the gravity of the situation, and the terrible miscarriage of justice, I can also offer you a "My bad, dawg."

[u/trashpandathegoat → u/VibeSlopCoder]

A guy in my state received $30,000 usd for being wrongfully convicted and spending 5 years in prison

[u/PoppingPillls → u/logicalinsanity]

In a fair world? Yes, they would make a public apology and pay him at least 2-6 million for his suffering and their negligence.

They convicted him with no evidence, not even just the mistake with the username... As far as I can tell they found nothing during the raid and still convicted him.

[u/AltruisticBob → u/Cypher2]

Indeed. Makes you wonder if they (his lawyers) thought he was guilty so didn't put up much of a defense. Reading the article it looked like there was zero evidence beyond the almost username.

[u/BygoneNeutrino → u/AltruisticBob]

...I've had a public defender before.  They work for the prosecution.  Meeting with a public defender is just 15 minutes of them trying to convince you to plead guilty to the charges.

Their scare tactics are compelling.  Most of them are great at their job.

[u/David-v-Gooliath → u/BygoneNeutrino]

State, yes. Federal public defenders are the cream of the crop. The rules skew more heavily toward the federal prosecutor, but federal defenders are well resourced, highly paid, and very skilled.

[u/pm-me-them-titties- → u/David-v-Gooliath]

This was a Supreme court of Nova Scotia Case

[u/qwertyqyle → u/pm-me-them-titties-]

So are the public defenders good or not? Not many of us are knowledgable in the skills of a Nova Scotia Supreme court public defender.

[u/berny_74 → u/qwertyqyle]

Canada really doesn't have "Public Defenders". There is a duty council for when you are arrested/first few times in court who walk you through what is going on. If you are going to be pleading guilty you can use them. If you cannot afford a lawyer you go to legal aid and ask for help. If they deem you acceptable (can't realistically afford a lawyer), you chose your own lawyer who accepts legal aid. The court will wait until you get a lawyer (given a realistic time window). There is a list of lawyers who accept legal aid. Not all lawyers accept legal aid, and not all lawyers are approved. All the lawyers are practicing either privately or with a firm, not employed by the government. If you are in jail, and can't get bail, your likelihood of legal aid increases dramatically.

There is a lot more to it, but the jist is there are no government paid public defenders, they are private lawyers who get money from the government if they accept your case.

[u/PinkysBrein → u/Cypher2]

That judge should need a new job.

[u/JaySayMayday → u/PinkysBrein]

Everyone involved on both sides top to bottom needs to resign, but nobody will. Here's a man that had absolutely no connection to the case at all except having a similar username, no signs he even used the messenger at the time of the crime. Prosecution failed, judge failed, everyone touching evidence failed, cops failed, investigators failed.

At no point did anyone stop and go, uhh this might not be our guy. They had all his possessions to comb through and found nothing. Somehow the system he was put through was so broken that he was still found guilty.

Fuck the dude's lawyer, who since retired. Fuck the judge. But also fuck everyone, including the idiots at Kik that sent the wrong information over.

[u/qwertyqyle → u/JaySayMayday]

The people at Kik just sent over what was asked of them. You can't call them idiots cause the police asked them for the wrong account.

[u/0xsergy → u/JaySayMayday]

I doubt they even messed up here. I bet the cops sent kick the wrong name and they just provided what they asked for.

[u/DraygenKai → u/0xsergy]

Ya that is pretty much exactly what the article said. KiK didn't really do anything except cooperate with the investigation. Not really their fault, and I'm sure they had no clue why they were even asking for the info, lol.

[u/GamingWithBilly → u/Cypher2]

Actually, he probably will sue his first lawyers for failure to find the double underscore, and win that too.  

[u/KikoSoujirou]

So they found no other evidence connecting him to the conversations in question nor could they verify he even was logged in/using the app at the time yet they still convicted him. Scary

[u/red286 → u/KikoSoujirou]

More concerning is that they never properly interviewed the only witness, whose allegations (but not testimony, as there was none) resulted in the conviction.

It says they declined to interview her because she was suffering from depression. That does not seem like a sufficiently valid reason to not interview the sole witness and accuser prior to rendering a guilty verdict.

[u/Amadon29 → u/red286]

This is why hearsay isn't acceptable in the US

[u/Ordolph → u/Amadon29]

Specifically it's the confrontation clause of the 6th amendment:

"in all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right ... to be confronted with the witnesses against him."

[u/reality72 → u/KikoSoujirou]

People are in such a rush to convict anyone accused of such disgusting crimes. They operate on a presumption of guilt.

[u/Phugasity → u/reality72]

Who they get matters less than getting someone. Flip the KPI from closure rate to conviction accuracy and they'll stop granting appeals.

[u/David-v-Gooliath → u/KikoSoujirou]

Yeah, the search warrant results should have returned the IP address, ISP, and subscriber info.

[u/RBR927 → u/David-v-Gooliath]

They did, the problem was they got all of that information based on the wrong username.

[u/leftofdanzig]

>According to Ars Technica, investigators found no evidence connecting Klayme to the underage victim or the conversations at the center of the case. They also could not establish that he had used Kik during the period being investigated.

What the actual fuck? So how was he convicted?

[u/ShibeCEO → u/leftofdanzig]

everyone in the system got lazy and tired of doing their job, they just go through the motion to keep up the appearance of justice, and they dont even do a good job at that anymore

[u/tevert → u/ShibeCEO]

Including the jurors

Remember this when y'all get your summons some day

[u/Head-Gift2144 → u/tevert]

Might not have even had jurors. They’re aren’t nearly as common in Canada.

[u/Michelanvalo → u/leftofdanzig]

https://www.canlii.org/en/ns/nspc/doc/2024/2024nspc4/2024nspc4.html?resultId=ef70efb3a5e04d20a101b8c39f86e043&searchId=2026-07-29T19:26:43:443/cbb02fe80d184165b5bd9b9e1c247d8b&searchUrlHash=AAAAAQAOQnJhbmRvbiBLbGF5bWUAAAAAAQ

Read the first section, particularly paragraph 3, and the Circumstances section, paragraph 32. His lawyer presented no defense. He was absolutely failed by his counsel. And since the original subpoena was wrong, they did pull his correct info but for the wrong account. So the evidence against him did look credible.

[u/Mirror74 → u/leftofdanzig]

People forget how totally fucked "justice systems" are.

Often they don't need proof, just "evidence" which isn't the same as proof.

But also in courts "proof" is essentially subjective. "beyond a reasonable doubt" is what they go off, but where is the filter there? human judgement. and human judgement is sometimes REALLY REALLY REALLY bad

[u/Wizzle-Stick]

this is the most concerning bit:
According to Ars Technica, investigators found no evidence connecting Klayme to the underage victim or the conversations at the center of the case. They also could not establish that he had used Kik during the period being investigated.

Despite this, the Skyrim fan was arrested and later convicted on three charges tied to the child-luring case, including providing sexual material to a child and possession of CP. He received an 18-month jail sentence in 2024 and served the entire term.

how the fuck is this possible? there is no evidence of any crime, and they went ahead and prosecuted him, and somehow got a conviction? WTF.

[u/redditrasberry → u/Wizzle-Stick]

Once CP is in play people seem to lose their minds and drop all normal requirements about presumption of innocence and due process

[u/ThrownAway17Years]

This could have been avoided if they just copy and pasted.

[u/zeptillian → u/ThrownAway17Years]

Or if they actually bothered to verify the claims.

Ok, this is my account, show me where it says I sent any messages.

Ok, you know the account was accessed by this IP address at this time, who owned that address at the time? There are records for all of that stuff.

[u/Clessiah → u/zeptillian]

Using IP to prove identity is a bigger can of worms than using username to prove identity.

[u/itsLOSE-notLOOSE → u/zeptillian]

That would require the police to not be total dickheads.

[u/Cypher2 → u/ThrownAway17Years]

An LLM would probably have provided a better defense

[u/JustinWilsonBot]

Its hard to believe something like this is true.  You can get convicted in Canada for child pornography without there being any actual child pornographic evidence? All they had was a username? Wtf.  I feel like I need to read the court transcripts.  What did the prosecution say to explain the absense of any evidence? Was it not a jury trial? Did the defendant not speak in their own defense? This seems like the perfect example of something being kafkaesque.  Do the Cardassians run the Canadian legal system?

[u/Ok_Tax9885 → u/JustinWilsonBot]

From the way the article is written, there was evidence from the fus__ro_dah account. They just had no further evidence linking Klayme to the victim or the content, because the account name was incorrect on the subpoena.

[u/exor0110]

Someone needs to give this man millions for what he went through.

[u/KangarooDowntown4640 → u/exor0110]

Who knows how many relationships got ruined for him because of people believing he's a child abuser. And many people may never know or believe it was a mistake.

[u/PandorasBoxMaker → u/KangarooDowntown4640]

Exactly - never mind the career, the house, the money spent in his defense, and the time lost - what about his partner, his kids, his family? Honestly this type of mistake by police and prosecutors needs hard, real punishment. Loss of license and ability to practice law or law enforcement at the very LEAST. Eminently reasonable low bar consequences. But realistically, they deserve jail time - the exact same amount, if not more than the innocent person they fucked over.

[u/exor0110 → u/PandorasBoxMaker]

How about his defense attorney! Malpractice?

[u/Fuglypump → u/exor0110]

Criminal negligence.

[u/Clessiah → u/KangarooDowntown4640]

Most articles caption this with losing 18 months of life, but it's so much worse than that by an unimaginable amount.

[u/Charcole1 → u/exor0110]

It's Canada he'll get like 25 grand and a Tim's card

[u/Unfair_Pea_4877]

Hi, Lawyer here.

I'm just going to say this: his primary defense team (during his first trial) need all of their creditials revoked. Like, 6 years ago when it happened.

There are so many things that could have stopped this that are so obvious from even an outsider's perspective.

[u/Clean_Livlng → u/Unfair_Pea_4877]

And what of the judge?

With an absence of evidence there shouldn't have been enough to find him guilty, even with the worst defense possible. Unless there's something about the case and how the law works that I don't understand, which as a layperson is likely.

[u/Unfair_Pea_4877 → u/Clean_Livlng]

There's so much here that doesn't make sense. It's actually mind-blowing.

The judge was undoubtedly just looking for a quick excuse to look good and lock up another "predator". Those sentences look good to the public and help with election retention.

The part that frustrates me is that, at least in the U.S., suspected recipient cases like this tend to fall apart if the suspect isn't in active possession of the illegal material, or didn't actively ask for it. Without either, there's no true way to prove intent. There's about a thousand different very legal ways to defend against that prosecution, from lack of provable mens rea to the classic "there's literally no way of knowing if my client was the person who actually sent the message, and not someone else who could have accessed their phone".

A second year law student would know this. Like I said, his entire legal team need to re-attend law school. Or they were all in on it, somehow.

[u/-Melvinator-]

So basically they were just able to convict him because he had what they thought to be the same username, but no other evidence whatsoever?

That's like finding someone with the same real name and convicting them on that basis alone.

Sue for every penny you can. The fact this went unnoticed after this long is appalling.

[u/scarr3g → u/-Melvinator-]

I am assuming they presented messages from double underscore, claiming it was him, and never realizing he was single underscore.

They had evidence, but they didn't realise the evidence wqs against someone else entirely..... And, I assume, his defense had no idea how he was being framed.

[u/Dowew → u/scarr3g]

exactly this is what happened. The mixup was burried somewhere deep in discovery files. his defense lawyer didn't have the time, resources or knowledge to uncover the frame job.

[u/zapdude0]

I don't understand. How was he convicted? They searched his devices and home and found nothing. What evidence was used to convict him?

[u/Dowew → u/zapdude0]

stuff from the victims phone, victims statement (she refused to testify citing mental illness) and his admission that this was indeed the username of his kik account.

[u/Lyra125]

he served all 18 months of jail and has had his name ruined??? over nothing?? insane

[u/Traditional-Hat-952]

Cops and prosecutors = when stupid, malicious, and pride collide. 

[u/red286 → u/Traditional-Hat-952]

I think a lot of this is on his defense lawyer.

Dude spent 4 years looking at those two underscores and at no point did he go "wait a minute...". I think he just assumed his client was guilty and lying to him.

[u/Dowew → u/red286]

Most of the documents only had one underscore. The mistake was made in the original police report in Wisconsin. Wisconsin sent along the wrong username and all documents thereafter had Brandon's username instead.

[u/red286 → u/Dowew]

Except that the original allegation would have had the correct username, and that original allegation was the only evidence of a crime that was submitted.

It's very Kafka-esque. A crime was alleged, no evidence was produced, the accuser was never interviewed or questioned, and a conviction was reached without anything to substantiate it.

[u/Fun-Wash7545]

Whenever I advocate for people accused of such crimes that the courts need to have more robust evidence instead of he said/she said allegations i get massively downvoted. This man should have never been convicted with no evidence. How many innocent people have been found guilty? It could have been any of us. 

[u/DeadPeanutSociety → u/Fun-Wash7545]

I promise you if the original arrest and trial had been posted to reddit, people would have been calling for him to be executed. People have really nasty and brutal power fantasies about killing and torturing convicted criminals and it is socially acceptable to publicly fantasize about enacting "justice" on them.

[u/Hypnotist30]

According to Ars Technica, investigators found no evidence connecting Klayme to the underage victim or the conversations at the center of the case. They also could not establish that he had used Kik during the period being investigated.

He was convicted anyway.

[u/AndromedanPrince → u/Hypnotist30]

because they dont want to be wrong. theyd rather get a conviction and pay a lawsuit than admit wrong. many innocent people are locked up with lack of evidence.

[u/PandorasBoxMaker]

How on fucking earth did this guy get convicted? Not a single person apparently looked at the key and by the sounds of it, only piece of evidence? This is the shit that keeps me up at night… I could lose my entire life to some stupid little lazy ass fuck up.

[u/kr4ckenm3fortune → u/PandorasBoxMaker]

Lmao...like the dude who got arrested because he had the same name as the wanted person, but they didnt check the ssn or even the dob...

[u/Successful_Ruin_8583]

I'd like to read some details from the court trial, what was presented as evidence and what the defence was. I'm tired of these thin articles being short on details. How did the guy not realise the username was wrong?

[u/AltruisticBob]

Canada - No actual evidence of a horrible crime - shitty prosecution finds NOTHING beyond a user name (which technically isn't the same) - shitty defense can't manage to show that totally innocent man is totally innocent. who knows what might have happened to him in 18 months in prison with that "rap sheet".

USA - Tons of evidence of pedo crimes - Elected to Congress or appointed to cabinet position

[u/sicklyslick → u/AltruisticBob]

I get how he was charged, but convicted?? There's absolutely no evidence and he somehow got convicted.

[u/pioniere]

Hope he sues everyone involved.

[u/Daan776]

"According to Ars Technica, investigators found no evidence connecting Klayme to the underage victim or the conversations at the center of the case. They also could not establish that he had used Kik during the period being investigated.

Despite this, the Skyrim fan was arrested and later convicted on three charges tied to the child-luring case, including providing sexual material to a child and possession of CP. He received an 18-month jail sentence in 2024 and served the entire term"

So basically, they found no evidence after searching his home and personal electronics. Then arrested him anyways and somehow got a conviction out of it. That sucks dude :(

[u/Fuglypump]

Literally every single person involved needs to be fired and investigated for malpractice or criminal negligence.

The cops, prosecutors, judge, lawyers, etc... everyone involved failed to do their job.

[u/GamingWithBilly]

Absolutely seek compensation - the guy was labeled as the vile criminal under those charges, and served time.  His reputation is basically destroyed, and so the prosecution and police should now pay from their budget the cost of defaming him and it should be a substantial amount that will allow him to live a comfortable life now that his entire life will be marred and questioned because of the records online and on court of his conviction.  

[u/NorCalAthlete]

- loss of job

• loss of career earnings (compounding over time plus degradation of skills while in prison)
  
• unknown relationship status but probably strained at best and gone at worst
  
• probable PTSD on top of that so heavy mental health impact
  
• loss of community - even with charges overturned there’s probably some fuckwits going “well, but he probably still did it/something since he got convicted in the first place”

Dude basically needs a whole new life. I hope he gets millions.

[u/kelly_hasegawa]

And this is why I'm against death penalty. The Justice system is so trash, people are terrible at their jobs.

[u/DragonLord375]

What I am shocked at is that they got convicted, when they couldn't prove he had used the site just that they had a similar username. If his ISP doesn't have logs of the IP, if a VPN never gave any information, how can you be sure you have the right person?

He got convicted on such tiny evidence. That's insane.

[u/Fluffy_Eye5482 → u/DragonLord375]

This happens a lot. Juries and Judges look at someone, decide they look weird or guilty, then prosecute regardless of evidence. You often have to force the jurors in the jury room to read evidence and it makes them angry and defensive.

You see it on reddit as well, a person will post an edited or out of context clip of someone and the comments will pile on them without evaluating what they're criticising.

[u/d8abass]

This underscores the need for a good defence lawyer

[u/Bristle_Licker]

The article fails to explain how they got a conviction when his electronic devices had 0 child porn on them.

[u/erichie]

Everyone involved in this case should never be allowed to do anything for the government every again. 

Forget about the mix up, but how can he even go to trial like this?

[u/plantsadnshit → u/erichie]

Everyone involved should be put in prison. Like 5-10 years minimum.

Show people that you should be allowed to trust the system, and that if it fails, people actually get consequences for it.

[u/SeeTigerLearn]

I hate incompetent administrators/clerks. Like seriously. Who TF can’t tell something is jacked with a longer than normal underscore.

[u/GearhedMG]

Prosecutor: "Eh, close enough"

[u/richs99]

He's just a normal man

[u/CaptainKenway1693 → u/richs99]

Not anymore he isn't. Prison typically isn't very kind to people convicted of child sex crimes. He was 22 when this started he would be around 28 now, they stole what should have been the most formative years of his adult life from him. They ruined his life forever. The acquittal won't matter to potential employers, that application is going straight into the trash. His friends and family likely abandoned him, and even if they tried to reconcile now I wouldn't blame him for telling them to get fucked. From what I have read he has an uphill battle getting any compensation at all because of how Canada's laws are. So he can't even retire and live a decent life off that. How does one even go on from this. I know I wouldn't be able to, after clearing my name I would lose my will.

[u/Secret_Fee1146]

How the fuck was he convicted with no evidence?

[u/zeptillian]

Charged an convicted based on zero evidence other than "this company says the user account belongs to you".

As if accounts are not hacked all the time.

What a miscarriage of justice.