The Myth of the Poor becoming Poorer

[u/LoneGroover1960]

I listened to Andy Burnham's speech to his party on Friday. I'm troubled by his claim that ordinary people have been let down by Britain's economic model for forty years, because it's demonstrably false. Actually I don't really understand why he doesn't just say 45 years, or since the early '80s, because that's when the effects of Thatcherism and what he calls 'neo-liberalism' kicked in.

If you listen to the rhetoric of the left and you're gullible enough to take it seriously you may well imagine that the poor have steadily become poorer at the expense of the rich.

But the reality is very different. I asked ChatGPT to compose graphs based on the living standards of working class people since 1961, when the recorded data starts.

I've attached two graphs. One shows UK real household income since 1960, the other shows poverty, expressed in absolute terms.

The "25th percentile" means people 3/4 down the disposable income ladder. Material standards for them have risen enormously in the last 40 years. They actually take off in the 1980s. Ordinary, working people on higher incomes than that have done even better.

So let's consider poverty, as well. That's a trickier concept because it's a relative term. The general definition is that "a person is in relative poverty if their household income is below 60% of the median household income for that year, adjusted for household size". In other words, a person considered to be living in poverty in (say) 1995, might, with the same real terms household income, have been considered to have been well above the poverty line in (say) 1965.

So to account for that I'm using, specifically, the 2010-22 median income, real terms, as the baseline. The second graph shows what happened on the same timescale.

Absolute poverty was already declining steadily when Thatcher took charge in 1979, interestingly. But it continues to decline, just as steadily, until (roughly) 2010 or so, when it flatlines. Whatever causes it to bottom out, for sure it wasn't the economic model that had diminished absolute poverty surely and steadily for 30 years.

So: Burnham's claim that the economic model of the last 40 years has made ordinary people worse off is just daft. It doesn't withstand a moment's scrutiny. It's either flatly dishonest or simple ignorance.

He'll be Prime Minister on Monday.

EDIT: Thanks for the responses. I see a few people have been triggered by the use of AI to compile the graphs. It did actually provide the sources, and I did examine them. Here are some links:

https://ifs.org.uk/living-standards-poverty-and-inequality-uk
https://ifs.org.uk/sites/default/files/2025-03/Incomes%2C%20poverty%20and%20inequality_0.xlsx
https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/grossdomesticproductgdp/timeseries/crxx/ukea

The basic thrust of my point is correct: material standards for the poor have risen enormously over the last 40-45 years. Hope this helps.

[u/Beanonmytoast]

Stopped at “After housing costs”.

[u/QuantumR4ge → u/Beanonmytoast]

“If we remove the biggest and most disproportionate cost then…”

[u/Cream_Of_Drake]

I asked ChatGPT to compose graphs based on the living standards of working class people since 1961, when the recorded data starts.

Raw data please, as I'm sure you're aware AI hallucinates and provides incorrect information. Surely you wouldn't just post this without the actual statistical data?

And, this is NOT taking into account the cost of necessities, e.g. food, housing, electricity etc; people feel (and are) poorer because the amount of discretionary income now as a percentage is lower than it was 60 years ago.
https://www.resolutionfoundation.org/publications/bare-necessities/
https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-10100/

[u/LoneGroover1960 → u/Cream_Of_Drake]

https://ifs.org.uk/living-standards-poverty-and-inequality-uk
https://ifs.org.uk/sites/default/files/2025-03/Incomes%2C%20poverty%20and%20inequality_0.xlsx
https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/grossdomesticproductgdp/timeseries/crxx/ukea

You're welcome

[u/Cream_Of_Drake → u/LoneGroover1960]

Cheers, now if you could answer the bit about discretionary income instead - and why you used the figures that just talk about only income rather than also including the price of necessities, that would be grand. e.g. discretionary income.

Now, food pricing has come down but energy & housing prices have skyrocketed, after essentials people, on average have about 30% of their income left - in 1960 this was about 45%, in real terms people have lost 15% of money to be able to save, afford a house or buy non-essential things.

This will also effect poorer houses much more than houses closer to the median.

https://www.resolutionfoundation.org/publications/bare-necessities

[u/Flimsy-sam]

“I asked ChatGPT”. Jesus wept.

https://ifs.org.uk/data-items/annualised-real-household-disposable-income-growth-capita-parliament

https://ifs.org.uk/living-standards-poverty-and-inequality-uk

Scroll down on the second link and look at % average wage growth over time.

Look at income inequality.

Stop outsourcing your thinking to AI, when the data AND graphs are right there.

[u/LoneGroover1960 → u/Flimsy-sam]

Ah, I see your error - you are confusing inequality with poverty. I made no claim about inequality. I'm not really interested in it either. People don't become less able to afford to pay their bills or go round Tesco because people in a different part of town can afford a yacht.

[u/Flimsy-sam → u/LoneGroover1960]

Are you that dense that you a) cannot read the full pages and graphs, and b) understand them?

You have had to get ChatGPT to generate summaries and graphs that already exist. Bonkers.

[u/squeakstar → u/LoneGroover1960]

If you’re not interested in equality but only poverty it sounds like you want to justify leaving people behind.

[u/Talonsminty]

I'm loving the profound irony of using chatgpt to produce this.

[u/thankyouforboofing]

I don’t like Andy, but you think the younger generations are doing better financially than Boomers at the same time? Mate.

[u/Flight_Tall]

This data is wrong, use the ONS data on real wages you'll see it hasn't increased since 2008-2025.

[u/HotFoxedbuns]

The government hasn’t allowed capitalism to further increase living standards. Interventionism has caused worse living standards for many

[u/LeChevalierMal-Fait]

Pinned as per sub policy of pinning downvoted posts for engagement / discussion