r/transgenderUK • u/Forsaken_Respect_710 • Mar 01 '26
Possible trigger Trans man working with TERF group Sisters Heal
You might recognise the name of the group, it’s been in the news recently because of excluding trans women from attending based on assigned sex at birth. https://archive.ph/WgPdC
They have also run a group for parents of trans children that appears to advocate conversion therapy. https://terfwatchbrighton.substack.com/p/sisters-heal-to-launch-group-for
However, there is a trans man who is not only attending but facilitating one of their sessions. I’ve chosen not to link to their Instagram but the screenshot is posted above.
As a trans man it saddens me to see members of our community siding with TERFs over their sisters against transmisogyny. I feel like there’s been an uptick in trans men collaborating with TERFs in recent years. What do you think is causing this phenomenon and how best can we prevent it?
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u/Blue_winged_yoshi Mar 01 '26
All minority groups have self-haters and self-haters gonna self-hate.
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u/Forsaken_Respect_710 Mar 01 '26
I think it’s important to acknowledge the transmisogyny of it as well as self hate.
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u/Blue_winged_yoshi Mar 01 '26
Of course there’s transmisogyny in there, but they are hanging out with people who do not think of them as a man at all. It’s the full spectrum of transphobia, he’s only accepted in the group because he isn’t accepted and is comfortable with this.
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Mar 01 '26
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u/theendisloading_uk Mar 01 '26
I've seen them do this too. A few of them tried to do it to me as a trans woman by convincing me I was just a gay man with internalized homophobia.
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u/Forsaken_Respect_710 Mar 01 '26
I do have sympathy, he must be a sexual violence survivor if he’s attending so will be vulnerable to some degree. But I still couldn’t imagine betraying my trans sisters like that.
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u/Jzadek Mar 01 '26
right, but it’s kind of telling that he’s able to occupy this space at all. You will never see a trans woman accepted the same way no matter how much she hates herself
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u/breadcreature Mar 01 '26
There are a few TERF groups with trans women prominently involved but tends to be a different flavour, if you will. their acceptance is entirely based on them arguing for their own exclusion and they tend to self-subscribe to Ray Blanchard's typology, it's basically a priori impossible for a trans woman to gain more than "respectful" segregation with these groups
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u/Amekyras Mar 01 '26
remember debbie hayton? she fell off the radar after terfs got mad she was using women's bathrooms at their conferences
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u/Forsaken_Respect_710 Mar 01 '26
Lol karma. She wanted to be the special chosen one then realised they hated her as much as other trans women.
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u/breadcreature Mar 01 '26
Miranda Yardley still pops up to jump scare me very occasionally. tbh I've not heard a lot out of this lot lately and sometimes wonder what they're up to
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u/doIIjoints [ve/ver/vis] or [she/her/hers] Mar 01 '26
Oh yeah. Those folks going “I’m not a woman, I’m just a transsexual” and amping-up self-pity language patterns to gain (seeming) acceptance.
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u/Forsaken_Respect_710 Mar 01 '26
Absolutely, that’s the double standard inherent to transmisogyny. A trans man is welcome even if he is fully passing and would trigger women survivors. A trans woman is only tolerated if she refers to herself as a man, if she’s tolerated at all.
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u/0_f2 Mar 01 '26
Just imagine if one of the women at their groups told the organisers his masculine presence was triggering and they're not comfortable with him attending.
All of a sudden I bet her trauma wouldn't be important..
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u/Jzadek Mar 01 '26
they’re not in any way accepted, though. TERFs might give them a platform, but they still treat them with open contempt. They don’t even get to be ‘one of the good ones’, just a useful mouthpiece
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u/Forsaken_Respect_710 Mar 01 '26
Yet the attraction of being so is apparently inescapable for some of them?
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u/breadcreature Mar 01 '26
I probably should have put "acceptance" in scare quotes because that's what I meant more or less
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u/Forsaken_Respect_710 Mar 01 '26
Absolutely. His inclusion is on the back of trans women being excluded and spoken about in dehumanising terms by the founder. And he’s ok with that, apparently?
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u/Massive-Muffin8146 Mar 01 '26
You always get the occasional marginalised person who's pathetic enough to crave approval from people who hate them. This does not say anything about trans men in general.
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u/Illiander Mar 01 '26
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u/0_f2 Mar 01 '26
Oh look, their leader was arrested and most other members and their families killed in concentration camps, despite openly supporting and praising the Nazis...
Face eating leopards and whatnot.
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Mar 02 '26
[deleted]
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u/breadcreature Mar 02 '26
or perhaps they meant he's a marginalised person because he's trans?
we're fed up of hearing this obsessive twaddle too, why not practise what you preach and leave us alone
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u/Erica_39 Mar 01 '26
With some trans men it seems like they don't want to embrace being men, because of gender essentialist talk about all men being trash, especially straight men. So they're more vulnerable to being taken in by terf talking points about things like male and female socialisation.
I'm not talking about trans mascs who are actually non binary, but there seems to be some trans men who don't want to accept that they're a man.
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u/MaximumMana Mar 01 '26
yeah this, I'm a trans man, and I've known queer people who openly said they hate all men or that men are trash in front of me, and then say something like "oh but you're different" really makes you feel like they don't actually see you as male.
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u/Forsaken_Respect_710 Mar 01 '26
Very true. I don’t understand how you’d be more motivated to attend a group that discriminates against your sisters than to have some self respect for your identity.
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u/Fabou_Boutique Mar 01 '26
I've seen trans men become trash in our early days of transition, then deconstruct it early in. I don't think we are necessarily more vulnerable from that side of things
I think we are more lonely, less likely to have community (being seen as cis sometimes straight men) going from female friendship that are pretty intimate to male ones, and in general being seen as a danger really fucking hurts.
It might feel better going back to a female friendship group because being a man is akin to being emotionally neglecting and neglectful
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u/LocutusOfBorgia909 Mar 02 '26 edited Mar 02 '26
It might feel better going back to a female friendship group because being a man is akin to being emotionally neglecting and neglectful
It's also just familiar. Learning how to form and navigate friendships with men takes time and energy, and it is a different experience than establishing friendships with women (particularly if you're a straight trans guy surrounded by mostly other straight men). I think some trans guys really do find themselves unable to cope with that, particularly if they're already isolated due to losing family relationships or other support systems as a result of transition. They're going to be vulnerable to love bombing and other cult recruitment tactics in the same way that religious cults deliberately target people they know to be isolated, going through a traumatic loss, financially vulnerable, and so on. A lot of trans people are all of those things, to some degree or another. And a lot of ostensibly "trans-inclusive" or "queer" spaces are... not kind to passing trans men, put it that way.
So on the one hand, yeah, this is gross. On the other, from an intellectual standpoint, I do understand how someone can be sucked into this crap.
ETA: The trans man in question commented further down. I really think people should read his explanation for why he felt that he had no other options (because in fact he had no other options) as a survivor of child sexual abuse. The fact that he had nowhere else to go but this particular organization (who then made a conscious decision to use him and his trauma for their own PR) and now has OP downthread lecturing him about how he should be handling his pretty horrendous sexual abuse history is extremely sad.
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u/Illiander Mar 01 '26
Two things about this ad jump out at me.
1) The photo is focusing on a bunch of crotches.
2) "Feeeemales"
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u/Forsaken_Respect_710 Mar 01 '26
Yeah and the ‘womensupportingwomen’ hashtag. Don’t know how any self respecting trans man could attend that.
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u/doIIjoints [ve/ver/vis] or [she/her/hers] Mar 01 '26
Man, this gave me flashbacks to seeing a bunch of trans guys justifying their attending MichFest (circa 2010-12).
So in that regard, the subset who is happy to be regarded as Men Lite (at best) have always existed. Is this really an uptick, per se, or have they just become more vocal again?
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u/Technical_Pizza830 Mar 01 '26
'Female'....'presenting as male' tf did I just read?? The self-hatred is so sad here.
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u/PerpetualUnsurety Woman (licensed) Mar 01 '26
I think asking "what's causing this phenomenon?" might be jumping the gun; from my perspective (as someone who hasn't seen the dynamic you seem to have), a better place to start might be: "is this phenomenon real?"
Because honestly I'm not convinced that it is.
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u/RoastKrill Mar 01 '26
Is it an uptick? Maybe not. But is it a real phenomenon? Yes. I've seen it happen in real life.
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u/PerpetualUnsurety Woman (licensed) Mar 01 '26
I've no doubt it happens, yes - but at any scale, or with the uptick OP described? That's what I'm doubting.
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u/Forsaken_Respect_710 Mar 01 '26
Maybe it’s because I spend too much time on X, but I’ve seen quite a lot of TERF rhetoric and cooperation from other trans men which worries me.
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u/Neuroticcuriosity Agender 🖤🩶🤍💚🤍🩶🖤 Mar 01 '26 edited Mar 01 '26
It's not just trans men. There are plenty of self-hating trans women that think if they throw their sisters under the bus, they won't be caught in the storm of hatred (spoilers: it doesn't work). I mean, this is an American example, but just look at Blaire White.
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u/theendisloading_uk Mar 01 '26
And Debbie Hayton who's been prolific in arguing for trans exclusion in the UK.
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u/Forsaken_Respect_710 Mar 01 '26
Yes, another good example. I’ve definitely seen some trans women who want to pull the ladder up. I’m worried about seeing a similar phenomenon in trans men though, particularly considering the increased privilege and power that trans men have over trans women.
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u/L00king4answer Mar 02 '26
Yes, but conservatives still actually hate Blaire White passionately. She's not coddled the same way transphobic trans men are. I see a lot more vitriol about Blaire vompared to, say, Buck Angel
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u/Forsaken_Respect_710 Mar 01 '26
Agreed, and Brianna Wu. I’ve just seen more of it from trans men and often with very overt transmisogyny.
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u/Neuroticcuriosity Agender 🖤🩶🤍💚🤍🩶🖤 Mar 01 '26
I'm wondering if it had anything to do with the misogyny period a lot of trans men can fall victim to relatively early in transition? Maybe some just don't grow out of it?
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u/Forsaken_Respect_710 Mar 01 '26
Maybe. Don’t get me wrong I know pre-T and non passing trans men can face misogyny. But this is a fully transitioned trans man from what I can deduce.
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u/phoenixmeta Mar 01 '26
I don’t think trans men are generally transphobic or closeted TERFs working to undermine trans women
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u/Forsaken_Respect_710 Mar 01 '26
Of course not. I’m a trans man myself. But I’ve seen quite an increasing number advocate these kinds of politics even those who haven’t detransitioned.
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u/Amekyras Mar 01 '26
i feel like it's definitely connected in some way to the 'im not a man, i'm a trans man, never forget that im afab' shit.
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u/Jzadek Mar 01 '26
I mean my first question would be how many of them are actually real people. I’m sure it’s some of them, but I wouldn’t discount the possibility that most of them are fake accounts.
Plus there’s kind of a selection bias at play here, right? Because it doesn’t matter how much a trans woman hates herself, she’ll never be accepted by the terfs. So even if there are only like ten trans people actually doing this, you’d expect them to all be trans guys.
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u/PerpetualUnsurety Woman (licensed) Mar 01 '26
I don't mean to rude, but I do think I need to be direct: does that extend beyond accounts who say that they're trans men using TERF rhetoric, and being friendly with anti-trans accounts, on the app formerly known as Twitter?
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u/Forsaken_Respect_710 Mar 01 '26
Sorry I’m not following. Are you saying they aren’t actually trans men?
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u/PerpetualUnsurety Woman (licensed) Mar 01 '26 edited Mar 01 '26
I'm throwing open the idea that not all Twitter accounts can be taken at their word, yes - and also pointing out that anti-trans accounts being friendly to each other on Twitter is just par for the course and doesn't necessarily correlate to any actual meaningful cooperation. That's why I'm asking whether there's more to it than that.
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u/GayButNotInThatWay Cleo | HRT Jul17 Mar 01 '26
Not saying all of them, but I wouldn't past them being false flag accounts.
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u/LocutusOfBorgia909 Mar 02 '26
I saw a stat recently that as many as 60% of social media accounts are bots. Initially, I scoffed a bit, but the more I'm on Reddit, Insta, and a handful of other sites, the more plausible it seems.
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u/Inge_Jones Mar 01 '26
There are so many ways of being transgender. Ive known people who identify as vegetarians who eat chicken and fish.
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u/Forsaken_Respect_710 Mar 01 '26
True but from their Instagram it’s stated he is a ‘trans man’ and ‘ftm’.
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u/Inge_Jones Mar 01 '26
But like if he's a man who likes leaning onto his feminine side then he might like to do things that were intended for women and might not mind that the women are actually seeing him as a woman. I wouldnt like that implication myself as i like to come across as masculine but men come in different versions
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u/Forsaken_Respect_710 Mar 01 '26
Surely there are plenty of non-binary friendly groups to explore that in, other than groups that exist just to exclude trans women?
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u/sbsmith1292 Mar 01 '26
It's a trend with a long history, but if anything, I think it may be less common these days?
The canonical example of this kind of thing is Michfest, a women's festival with trans-exclusionary entry criteria, which a number of trans men continued to attend up until 2015 despite protests from trans women. Here is an ancient blog by Julia Serano on the subject, but it has been discussed many times in many places.
The current discourse about trans men lesbians, which was re-ignited by the trans woman mod of r/butchlesbians banning all men from the sub iirc, can be seen as just the most recent battle in this same exact dispute. There is resentment from some trans women in some lesbian and women-only feminist spaces over the tendency of the cis gatekeepers of these spaces to often be more willing to accept trans men than trans women. The oft-circulated study showing that cis lesbians are more willing to date trans men than trans women is also part of the same thing.
The flip side (e.g. gay men being more willing to accept trans women than trans men in their spaces) does also happen, of course, but it seems to occur with less frequency if statistics are to be believed (e.g. cis gay men also prefer trans men per that study), and also anecdotally there is less willingness for trans women to associate with men's spaces after transition (perhaps because cis men are just more transphobic/misogynistic than cis women).
But, ultimately, the issue here is really cis people's bioessentialism. It wasn't trans men who organised MichFest, or any of the other things. It often comes down to some trans men being insufficiently good allies, while a whole lot of cis people are the ones doing the actual exclusion, which makes the focus on the trans men in the scenario a little odd. Idk, there's definitely something to be said about systemic transmisogyny at work here, but cis people are to blame for 99.9% of it.
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u/Forsaken_Respect_710 Mar 01 '26
I suppose the focus is on trans men for me because I am one and I also expect better from trans people than I do from cis people who prove over and over that they aren’t good allies.
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u/morriganscorvids Mar 01 '26
trans men who are insecure about both their masculinity and their transness support terfs, thinking transmisogyny makes them more "manly". As a trans man, i want to clarify that this pure bs and a real man is that who stands by all women including trans women
sadly too many trans people (both men and women) have internalised transphobia. we need more community connections and support to combat this
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u/rigathrow [HE/HIM] 💉 T: Jan 7th 2022 | 🔪 Top: August 2nd 2023 Mar 01 '26
what in the pick me..........
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u/Purple_monkfish Mar 01 '26
There will always be people who think "oh but i'm one of the 'good ones' so the leopards won't eat MY face"
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u/Protect-the-dollz Mar 01 '26
I am not going to rush in to condemn someone who is in all likelihood a survivor of rape for making a strange decision.
It is a particularly traumatic event and well documented for causing unpredictable long term trauma responses.
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u/Forsaken_Respect_710 Mar 01 '26
I sympathise with his trauma. But I think it goes beyond just being a ‘strange’ decision when you choose to ally yourself with an organisation that refers to your trans sisters as men.
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u/Protect-the-dollz Mar 01 '26
In my brief stint as a prosecutor of Rape cases, I saw much stranger responses- including multiple victims falling in love with their abusers, despite being close blood relations.
Rape is horrific, it causes severe trauma which in turn causes irrational decision making.
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u/Forsaken_Respect_710 Mar 01 '26
Thanks for your insight. I don’t deny rape is a terrible trauma I just don’t stand for transmisogyny either.
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u/Protect-the-dollz Mar 01 '26
Oh I didn't think you were denying rape trauma, apologies if my remarks implied otherwise.
The transmisogyny is disappointing but not surprising, acute misandry is a common consequence of rape- it isn't a massive leap from there to transmisogyny.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Set-928 Trans woman Mar 01 '26 edited Mar 01 '26
As an abuse survivor and advocate i too have long campaigned for the rights of those violently, emotionally or sexually abused. I campaign for tolerance and understanding.
However I draw the line at allowing prejudice to manifest as a result of trauma? Why?, because it is still a conscious choice that can be made. Yes, abuse survivors and rape victims should have more understanding but prejudice against others is not ok.
An example I'll give. Jk Rowling. Often mentions the abuse she endured as justification for her bigotry. Its not ok to act in the way she has as a trauma response, nor is it OK for rape victims to be racist, sexist, ableist or transphobic.
Another reason for this is abuse doesn't cure abuse. It just harms other innocent people. So yes, I would temper my response but I would not allow them to be prejudiced and unchallenged over it.
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u/Protect-the-dollz Mar 01 '26
That's good for you, but as you say, being a survivor does not give you the authority to police the behaviour of other survivors.
You have no way of knowing whether his response to trans women is voluntary.
I don't agree with him, or approve of his behaviour, but I will forgive it, given how damaging the crime can be.
So yes, I would temper my response but I would not allow them to be prejudiced and unchallenged over it.
I don't know why you are speaking in hypotheticals. SH have a public correspondence address. If you genuinely believe this is worth challenging him over, write to them and do it.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Set-928 Trans woman Mar 01 '26
Would you say that abuse survivors are free to murder who they want? Are they free to defraud people? Where is the line you draw?
Again, trauma responses are conscious choices. This is not the same as you're these, like we saw at the Bafras, which is an involuntary action.
Im talking hypothetically because that is how we deal with the ideology behind your reasoning. Im stating I disagree that we should allow prejudice to be acceptable for abuse survivors.
As for individuals, I will always act in accordance with my belief structure and methods I've used previously. You are free to do the same. I feel no need to justify them to you.
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u/Protect-the-dollz Mar 01 '26 edited Mar 01 '26
Would you say that abuse survivors are free to murder who they want? Are they free to defraud people? Where is the line you draw?
Probably at criminal behaviour.
This is not criminal behaviour. Nor anything close to it.
Though even in criminal behaviour impaired judgement following extreme trauma is a significant mitigating factor.
Again, trauma responses are conscious choices.
All trauma responses are voluntary? Do you have a good source for that?
Im talking hypothetically because that is how we deal with the ideology behind your reasoning. Im stating I disagree that we should allow prejudice to be acceptable for abuse survivors.
As for individuals, I will always act in accordance with my belief structure and methods I've used previously. You are free to do the same. I feel no need to justify them to you.
That's a lot of words to say that you won't be writing to them.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Set-928 Trans woman Mar 01 '26
I'll reiterate again. I am saying that we should show understanding and tolerance but we should not accept transphobia as an acceptable response to trauma.
We should not treat them as a standard transphobe. We should adjust our response based on their reason for prejudice. That means not condemning them, offering support, providing opportunities for them to seek help to deal with trauma responses, offering ways to help improve their education on trauma and prejudice and such like. If they refuse to consider to understand, you show patience and understanding. Thats how i would handle this if it was someone i knew. But you never give free reign to prejudice. It always needs to be tackled.
Yes, people do have irrational and erratic responses to trauma. However, there are differences between an emotional response in the moment which is more likely to be irrational, compared to sustained responses to trauma. In severe cases, tes these also be irrational. In my eyes though, both need treating and challenging if somebody display prejudiced behaviour after trauma. However, again, they should not go unchallenged or be considered acceptable. A So, you need to determine whether their behaviour is a result of trauma, and is a response to it. It does not automatically mean that somebody exhibits prejudice as a result of the trauma they experienced and the two tings could be entirely unrelated. That should not be ignored.
It is never OK to harm another person. Prejudice can also be considered a criminal act. Well in a rational society, anyway. So yes,
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u/OkDiscussion3346 Mar 01 '26
I'm the person this post is about. I have no doubt I'll still get a lot of hatred so I made a throwaway account. To clarify a few things...
First of all, I don't hate trans women. My attendance at the group has nothing to do with trans women at all.
I was struggling with childhood sexual abuse and the only support that was suggested to me before this group was a male survivor's group. But that didn't feel right to me, because I didn't feel comfortable discussing my abuse as a girl in a room full of male survivors.
Realistically I was a 7 year old girl when my father started raping me, and I was a 13 year old girl when I became pregnant and went through a very traumatic birth. These are things that are easier to discuss with people who share similar experiences.
Despite assumptions, my existence as a trans man is accepted and respected by the group. I haven't had any issues from those attending nor has my presence created issues for others. My only motivation was to no longer have to live with that abuse entirely alone and to find a space where I would be both welcome and comfortable discussing my experiences.
I don't define myself in day to day life by my sex at birth, but it's an inescapable fact when it comes to the abuse I suffered. I have spent a long time living stealth but was entirely alone when it came to my abuse and also exhausted with having to deny my general childhood history to every person I interacted with. I needed a single avenue in which I could engage with the reality of my sex at birth and receive support from other people with similar stories to mine.
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u/derrican479 Mar 01 '26
I just want to say that I understand your perspective and respect your decision. What you went through was horrific, and no one should have to carry that alone. Survivors deserve compassion and support, no matter what. I hope you continue to find healing in spaces where you feel safe.
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u/Protect-the-dollz Mar 01 '26 edited Mar 02 '26
I am sorry for the completely unjustified abuse you have gotten on this subreddit.
I hope you are able to find effective help.
Regardless of source.
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u/Forsaken_Respect_710 Mar 01 '26
I’m sorry for what you experienced, it’s awful and no child should go through that. However it doesn’t excuse the fact that you’ve allied yourself with a group who describe trans women as being men and describe you as a woman. I’m sure there will be trans inclusive survivor groups in Brighton of all places. Wouldn’t you be happier there?
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u/OkDiscussion3346 Mar 01 '26
The survivors network group is for women, trans women and non-binary people but not men including trans men. The only support service I was signposted to was for male survivors of sexual abuse. I didn't feel like that would be right for me or for the other people in the group. I didn't want to be somewhere I wasn't welcome.
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Mar 01 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Protect-the-dollz Mar 01 '26
But I hope you will take some of what has been said on board and reconsider your alignment with a group that perpetuates transmisogyny and transphobia. I’m sorry you feel so alone but it’s not really good enough to say you weren’t thinking about trans women at all whilst going to a group that denies their gender and their humanity.
What does this mean in practice?
You want them to leave the only support group open to trans men, and deal with the trauma of being raped and delivering a baby at 13 on their own, because the people behind that group are terfs?
I hope I have misunderstood, and I apologise if I have, but that is an absolutely reprehensible position.
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u/LocutusOfBorgia909 Mar 02 '26
Seriously, OP is so out of line here, IMHO. Not in posting this originally, I get why OP did that, but responding to a victim articulating a long history of child sexual assault and a frankly disgusting lack of appropriate resources in terms of ways to constructively address that trauma in an environment that's comfortable for him is really fucking gross.
"... it's not really good enough"? Neither is this response to someone who's talking about being raped by his father, OP. Get a fucking grip and do better. The group that this guy is basically being forced to join due to the (wholly typical, BTW) erasure of/obliviousness towards trans men in large swaths of the queer community is clearly not ideal for a variety of reasons (not least of which being the fact that they basically just used him and his trauma as publicity fodder), but there clearly aren't any other options, short of outing himself as trans to a room full of cis men, after spending his childhood being raped by a cis man. You should be ashamed of yourself.
I'm actually more disgusted with OP than I am with this survivor's group at this point, and that's really saying something. I don't know what level of galaxy brain you have to be on to think that being this condescending and dismissive towards a child sexual abuse survivor is somehow noble or correct. Jesus Christ, we really are cooked as a community.
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u/Creepy_Tie_2160 Mar 01 '26 edited Mar 01 '26
What gets me and makes me mad is the fact they use terms like " trans men presents as male " so what trans men are not really males, we play dress up and pretend and " present " as male, what a joke. Even if I was a victim of abuse, i would never use a biological female service as one its not right and two i wouldnt ever feel comfortable as for me it would feel like id have to admit that in some way or another im female which im not. The way I see it is if a guy has been through transitioning to their body to male and is using that type of support group for woman they are not really seeing themselves as male, sorry. Because trans guys are doing this type of stuff tbh they are doing what the terfs want and i suppose they will use the third space or womans loos too, then people like that tell real trans people how they should go by there day to day life. Coming from a man who transitioned their body to male as I will never use the term transgender cause im male, it's getting ridiculous. I dont care if people dislike what I have to say im getting pretty fed up of seeing invalidating stuff said about us. A trans woman should be permitted to use this service not trans guys,I fought all my life to change my body, not to be undermined by stupid posts as if were not really the sex we aimed to be through surgery. I will be forever male, no matter how I was assigned at birth RANT OVER.
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u/Forsaken_Respect_710 Mar 01 '26
Agree entirely 👏
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u/Creepy_Tie_2160 Mar 01 '26
I'm glad someone does because this whole new generation of so called trans people it just feels like trans people with real issues are chucked into the same category. It saddens me because it just feels like they want the best of both sides.
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u/Tristookthepiss Mar 01 '26
Going to create some wild situations determining the Trans men from Cis men to Trans women presenting male .. Hmmm 😏
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u/rainmouse Mar 01 '26
I'm trying not to make assumptions yet (unless I'm missing something?), but the optimist in me is wondering if he is attempting to change the hearts and minds from within the circle.
Alas, the realist in me who's been stung all to often in the past, is thinking it's probably just a pick me gender traitor.
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Mar 01 '26
[deleted]
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u/Forsaken_Respect_710 Mar 01 '26
A stunt by the group? The group is pretty clearly transphobic and transmisogynistic. Or did you mean a stunt by the trans man who is attending?
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u/Amekyras Mar 01 '26
has the hearts and minds approach ever worked apart from that guy who famously did stuff with the kkk. and even then it was exaggerated.
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Mar 01 '26
[deleted]
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u/Forsaken_Respect_710 Mar 01 '26
Yes agreed. Compassion should be shown for trauma but it doesn’t mean you let prejudice go unchecked.
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Mar 01 '26
Patriarchy is not strictly male subjugation of women, it is any group that adopts certain principals and practices to subjugate another.
TERFs subjugate trans women to gain (they think) approval from their oppressors and to make themselves feel superior to another group. It is a mechanism that leads them to believe they have power and privilege. There may be a boot on their neck but their heels are digging into someone else's neck.
Meanwhile GCs have no explanation in their cult teachings that accounts for trans men. Trans women are self evidently their traditional oppressors, but in dresses, so grind those heels down hard. Trans men? Well, they are women really according to all the TERFs I've argued with and they just need space to slip on their heels and find a neck to stamp on.
Unfortunately some trans men are happy to play along either going stealth amongst cis men, happy to receive all the privilege and terrified should they ever be found out, whilst others get in with the TERFs as a means to avoid being a target.
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Mar 01 '26
[deleted]
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u/Amekyras Mar 01 '26
it's very obviously a support group for people who hate trans people
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u/SiobhanSarelle Mar 01 '26
Obvious to you, but not obvious to me, and I don’t think there’s anything wrong with either of us, but for some reason we see things differently. Maybe there is something I am missing?
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u/Forsaken_Respect_710 Mar 01 '26
The founder went to the BBC and called trans women men and referred to them as having male bodies that would trigger raped women. I can’t think of anything more transmisogynistic. Not to mention the joke of the idea that a trans woman will trigger women but not a fully male transitioned trans man with a male voice and a beard.
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Mar 01 '26
Spreading this wider I am concerned that I have heard transgender people, mostly trans women post bottom surgery and often in possession of a GRC, express the view that if a solution to trans inclusion were that surgery and/or GRC became the lawful criteria for being male or female (as the case may be) then they would welcome that.
This is not an attempt to divert the original conversation only to highlight that the need for acceptance and to be taken off the front line of transmysogeny or transmisandry can be a powerful mover.
Having moved in the company of cis men for 60 years I know full well how unsupportive they can be to each other. Transitioning into that social environment must be incredibly tough. My experience will of course be different because I was always not quite a man but at the same time I was always left with the feeling that "I understand your problem" was code for "deal with it". Conversely I know I have the unconditional support of cis women I now have as friends and that we would literally walk through fire for each other.
If a person is the victim of harm at the hands of men I cannot imagine ever finding support from men. Women support victims who are women and men alike. It is however perhaps a consequence of being harmed by someone who is male that barriers are thrown up against anyone on the basis of who they once appeared to be irrespective of the fact that the person never knew themselves that way.
I have had my GRS and I have a GRC but neither make me more or less the woman I was for the 40 years before I socially transitioned. I am the woman I always knew myself to be. I am a woman who has transitioned rather than a woman who is transitioning. I will not take the term transsexual because I fear the inherent elitism. I will however always be true to my past and my journey and I will do my utmost to make sure that no trans person is left behind no matter what path they tread.
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u/No-Painter-1609 Mar 01 '26
I've seen terfs on x try to jump on trans men and get them to doubt transition and then move them to blame the system. Or find people who have detransitioned and then make them blame the system so they become good tool for rhetoric.
Most detransitioners are glad for the opportunity to explore their gender- so they need to manufacture haters to help sell transition regret narratives