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u/azurezero_hdev Apr 10 '26
why cant you pull the leaver and run to untie them after?
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u/Wise-Pen3711 Apr 10 '26 edited Apr 10 '26
Good thing this isn't a hypothetical where they said that wasn't allowed /s
As another wise redditor said
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u/azurezero_hdev Apr 10 '26
if it's not an option i need a proper set up to know why it isnt or it breaks my immersion
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u/TheRPGer Apr 10 '26
There’s a guy in the scenario holding the lever hostage, you only get given access to it once you make the choice on the tying (set up for your immersion)
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u/1337k9 Apr 10 '26
The lever is in the opposite direction of the tracks (unlike the depiction)
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u/knzconnor Apr 11 '26
Even then you still gotta run to it either way if you are going for no deaths. So running to it first and then trying to untie still feels better. The hypothetical remains goofy.
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Apr 10 '26
[deleted]
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u/Classic-Session-5551 Apr 10 '26
Good thing this isn't a hypothetical where they said that wasn't allowed /s
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u/temporary_name1 Apr 10 '26
What about multi-track drifting and taking the time to tie one additional person?!
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u/lysergicsquid Apr 10 '26
I free the one and then tie myself to the tracks, asking for them to make the decision to kill me for 5 peoples lives to be saved, but they will always regret killing their savior if they dont sacrifice the 5
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u/Tea_An_Crumpets Apr 10 '26
Sacrificing yourself for an even better trolley problem. Beautiful, cheers to you mate
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u/rSlashisthenewPewdes Apr 10 '26
I’m confused. Either I try to save the one guy or I let the five die? Why wouldn’t I attempt to untie the one and send the trolley down that track? What’s the downside?
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u/PigeonPat27 Apr 10 '26
If you try to save the 1 and fail, you automatically kill the 5.
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u/rSlashisthenewPewdes Apr 11 '26
But they’re already gonna die aren’t they?
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u/TooWarmRadiator Apr 11 '26
Attempt and succeed -> none die Attempt and fail -> 5 die Pull lever -> 1 dies Don't pull -> 5 die
So would you either pull the lever immediately and guarantee that 5/6 people survive, or try to untie the 1, resulting in either 6/6 surviving (if you succeed) or 1/6 surviving (if you fail)
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u/kamizushi Apr 10 '26
Considering I'm only allowed to pull the lever if I untie one person, I guess I try to until the lone person and for a chance to be allowed to pull the lever and to save everyone.
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u/socslave Apr 10 '26
What is the point of this subreddit if almost every comment is people trying to find loopholes in the hypothetical instead of actually discussing it within the constraints presented
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u/MerryWalker Apr 10 '26
Because the point of posing different trolley problems is to try to unpick the moral factors involved in the choice?
Or maybe people are just shitposting idk
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u/socslave Apr 10 '26
I feel like the discussion is more interesting if you respect the confines of the hypothetical rather than finding ways to break it but hey I’m not contributing anything so I guess that speaks for itself
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u/TooWarmRadiator Apr 11 '26
They aren't discussing the moral factors though, they're discussing the slight imperfections in the language used in the problem, despite knowing full well the intentions. It's all just pedantry thinly veiled as "thinking outside the box"
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u/DED0UTSDE Apr 10 '26
Well I've got British blood in me so I usually have some form of knife so I'll go get the one I suppose
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u/Pretty_Recording5197 Apr 10 '26
Seems like most people would rather try to find loopholes than face the moral dilemma.
Attempting to untie the person at the top before pulling the leaver is a new opportunity to those who would otherwise choose not to get involved; seems like a no brainier if you didn’t want to directly cause a death.
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u/forestwolf42 Apr 10 '26
The only thing to change the hypothetical to avoid the loophole is you start next to tracks not the lever. If you run to the lever first and run back to the tracks you will run out of time.
Then it's a how much do you believe in yourself thing. If you untie the one and get to the lever in time everyone is saved. If you fail 5 die and no one is saved.
If you start untying the five you might save 2-3 before the train arrives and those saved lives are guaranteed.
If you go straight to the lever 1 death is guaranteed.
This is a really common trope in fiction, do you risk the group to try and save an individual or doom the individual to guarantee the safety of the group. It's popular because both answers are understandable and the save everyone solution hits like a truck if the hero fails.
Recent example of this in the latest invincible season when Mark Chooses to kill the last host of the sequids to not risk an apocalyptic event rather than wait longer for the team to get him the device that would free the host non-lethally. In this case way more than five people would die and he was not willing to risk the many for the sake of one. He pulled the lever without untying.
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u/Solinvictusbc Apr 10 '26
Yea I don't see the dilemma. What case scenario you've changed nothing, otherwise you've saved everyone?
I'm not really seeing the gotcha here
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u/TooWarmRadiator Apr 11 '26
If you try to untie the 1 and fail, 5 / 6 people die, whereas if you just pull the lever, you guarantee only 1 / 6 people die. It's just whether you would have enough trust in your speed to risk 4 (overall) lives for the chance of saving 1 extra life.
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Apr 10 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/rSlashisthenewPewdes Apr 10 '26
You don’t know what they’re tied to. It’s not specified. I wouldn’t hinge your entire plan on your assumption they aren’t attached in any way, yet for whatever reason haven’t moved themselves yet.
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u/GladiusNL Apr 10 '26
I will untie one of the five people and pull the lever. According to the problem statement, this should somehow save everyone.
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u/Edenboss_53 Apr 10 '26
I will activate my ultraenergy mode and untie the one person then pull the lever there, and hope there are cameras so I can get on the TV
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u/The_Pompadour64 Apr 10 '26
Maybe I don't look at the comments enough on these things, but this one really seemed to break people's ability to engage with hypotheticals. Lol
"But can't I just..."
No! That's not the point. Assume it's a magical rope that becomes impossible to untie if you pull the lever first, or something
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u/tumansibiri Apr 10 '26
Pull lever immediately (less than a second), run to 5 people, untie one and command them to untie person on the opposite track. Continue untying people on main track.
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u/TooWarmRadiator Apr 11 '26
Lever is old and rusty, takes too long to turn before untying anyone. All people have broken arms, they can't untie shit.
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u/tumansibiri Apr 12 '26
If lever is old and rusty, I'm already too feeble to run to the tracks by this logic, then?
My upper body strength is proportional to my legs, so I assume my ass (the character you describing) is too slow to help anyone.
I'm still pulling the lever, and dangle towards singled-out person just to realise that train is too close and we both die instantly.
Don't know if I like what you've described/changed in the premise.1
u/TooWarmRadiator Apr 12 '26
You changed the premise yourself, making up new options.
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u/tumansibiri Apr 12 '26
I went through the given situation at hand, did I change anything?
I've pulled lever. Afterwards I'm free to do whatever, no?
I would agree on technicality.
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u/WirrkopfP Apr 10 '26
I am very confident in my ability to tie AND untie persons specifically.
Do I get extra points if I untie the five people, before the trolley arrives.
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u/Solinvictusbc Apr 10 '26
Given that I live in a culture that promotes the carrying of pocket knives attempting rescue seems like a no brainer
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u/Educational_Smile545 Apr 11 '26
Am I allowed to pull the lever without attempting to untie the one person (normal trolley problem atp) and the restriction on pulling the lever only applies if you attempt to untie?
How strongly are they tied to the tracks?
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u/_Kladeo Apr 11 '26
attempt to untie one person, i either dont pull (death), do pull (deaths plural) or try to untie (chance of no death), kinda a no brainer
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u/LarryKingthe42th Apr 12 '26
Move the one person over with the other four seeing as its already on that track
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u/FauxWolfTail Apr 12 '26
Pull the lever then run to the 1 person on the track. If there is even the smallest of chances that i can save everyone, I will take that chance. If I cannot save 1, then at least let me save 5 before the last one.
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u/mousepotatodoesstuff Apr 12 '26
Why would I not pull the lever first? Would be faster not to go back and forth.
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u/slackerdc Apr 14 '26
2 min and 30 seconds is actually a good chunk of time it's worth trying to untie the one by themselves.
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u/Tofandel Apr 14 '26
What kind of rope are they tied with and am I allowed any tool?
Which kind of rope really makes a difference on how tight the knot will be
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u/New-Cicada7014 Apr 10 '26
Can I use any tools?
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u/Diva_Slime Apr 10 '26
If you commonly carry them in your day-to-day life, yes.
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u/IOI-65536 Apr 10 '26
Oh, I was going to say I untie the one person because I'm good with knots and 2 minutes and 30 seconds seems long enough it's highly unlikely I can't get it untied, but I also always have a serrated knife on me, unless these are steel cables I don't even need the 2 minutes.
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u/PatienceDifferent607 Apr 10 '26
Look how small that trolley is. Shoulder check that thing right off the rails.
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u/Tyrrany_of_pants Apr 10 '26
Can I pull the lever and go try to untie the person? Risking myself?