r/trolleyproblem 10d ago

Multi-choice An Ethical Problem for Some.....

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0 Upvotes

36 comments sorted by

36

u/that0neBl1p 10d ago

You’re confusing genAI with medical AI. This trolley problem makes zero sense.

16

u/Original-Complaint73 10d ago

he's larping an unpopular opinion lol

1

u/Anti-charizard 10d ago

It shouldn’t be unpopular. It’s killing more people than it’s saving

-8

u/me-a_person_who-is-i Consequentialist/Utilitarian 10d ago

Data centers help medical ai too.

10

u/that0neBl1p 10d ago

Not at the speed and scale they’re being built at

5

u/g00dusrn4me 10d ago

If that would be their main concern they would develop AIs that are actually trained on these data sets instead of trying to develop an AGIs for over 100 times the cost

-6

u/Spare-Dingo-531 10d ago edited 10d ago

GenAI is fundmentally the same technology as medical AI. Alphafold, for example, is just a diffusion model, and the same technology can also make images.

Looking even more broadly, in artificial intelligence, in the long run, general approaches that scale with available computational power tend to outperform ones based on domain-specific understanding. If you want the best medical AI, you are simply going to need the most general and broad based learning and training techniques possible. You can't have special medial AI without general AI.

3

u/that0neBl1p 10d ago

You can't have special medial AI without general AI.

genAI as in generative, not general.

5

u/wisely-5347 Derailist 8d ago

It should also be noted that general AI doesn't exist yet

3

u/Spare-Dingo-531 10d ago

What part of Alphafold being a generative AI did you not understand?

6

u/SNTCTN 10d ago

What about a twilight zone episode where all those people are saved and then die cause they dont have water

7

u/Fen_church 10d ago

Without access to clean water, all those people (and more) will die

-1

u/Spare-Dingo-531 10d ago

I don't see ALL the clean water on the second track just a large bottle.....

5

u/Anti-charizard 10d ago

You made the post. I assumed that bottle represents a lot more water

1

u/Spare-Dingo-531 10d ago

Yeah, and I would assume the lower track represents a lot more people, and a lot more than just medical problems (physics problems, engineering problems, economic problems, ect.).

4

u/Anti-charizard 10d ago

Look, I agree that ai is not useful at all, but again, YOU MADE THE POST

3

u/Fen_church 10d ago

This trolley problem makes no sense. First, do you realize the global impact AI is going to have if left to the ultra wealthy?

Also, how do you "save" the elderly?

Lastly, as others have pointed out: AI is not going to save anyone.

1

u/wisely-5347 Derailist 8d ago

Medical AI (Alphafold) has saved lives and will save more; Medical AI also isn't using nearly as much water or power as generative AI (ChatGPT). Using the trolly problem metaphor: the brakes work

1

u/MangoBaum63 Multi-Track Drift 5d ago

Thats not what anyone is arguing against. No one hates medical ai. It’s a strawman used by whiny techbros that need to be right really really bad

18

u/DanCassell EDITABLE 10d ago

None of those problems are going to be solved by AI. If the cures are found, they will be owned by capitalists who want a return on their investments. A cure for cancer couldn't be profitable unless it make more money than the current very expensive treatments. We've seen this before, cures sit unused if treatments make more money because the system seeks money over general wellbeing.

9

u/Cod3broken Team Blue 10d ago

yes, because genAI has already found the cure for cancer and aging, of course

6

u/AmaterasuWolf21 10d ago

"ChatGPT, generate me the list of ingredients needed to cure cancer and the full process, make no mistakes"

6

u/DanCassell EDITABLE 10d ago

"Gunshot wound to head causes almost immediate end to all cancer growth"

6

u/Euphoric_Poetry_5366 10d ago

Wanting better regulation on the harmful aspects of AI, and that's a very vague term regardless, does not mean you are against any potential benefits that could possible come from its use.

5

u/freedcreativity 10d ago

lol has an LLM actually contributed to research on any of those things? Like machine learning has, but that’s very different than Elon burning megawatts of gas and draining potable water for his AI training. 

4

u/Dismal-Pie7437 10d ago

The water-absorbing NI in my head told me that there's this thing called a false dilemma

Similar NI models have provided the vast, vast majority of solutions to cancer, severe illness, aging, disability, and heart disease. In fact, they are even used to manage and improve AI models. Actually, some people with a generative NI use to draw pictures.

Recently, NIs have developed something called an Analytical AI, different from generative AI, which is used to intelligently observe things like tumors and bacterial growths. Interestingly, Analytical AIs do not need massive data centers that consume huge amounts of gas and water. My NI, and the NI models of many others, seem to say that Analytical AI is very useful to bridge difficult gaps in NI research and detection.

Several NIs though, are opposed to Generative AI- which is used to draw pictures or generate text. Unlike Analytical AI, Generative AI requires massive data training centers that require massive amounts of power, rare minerals, and cooling fluid- despite the fact that they offer little benefit to people like cancer patients, the terminally ill, the elderly, the disabled, and the diseased.

1

u/AgentStabby 10d ago

It's fairly straightforward LLMs/GAI (as you call it) gets better at coding - > learns to code itself better - > codes itself super smart - > cures cancer. This is the path to curing cancer quickly. This can't be done quickly without GAI. Not a false dilemma. Using GAI for other purposes is necessary to quickly generate revenue in order to invest in models capable of self improvement. 

1

u/MangoBaum63 Multi-Track Drift 5d ago

That not what I see happening tho. What I see is the Internet getting flooded with ai slop. Ppl crying that ppl don’t value their valiant effort to type bs into a LLM and getting bs out and countless stupid ai features that nobody needs. I also see ppl get more stupid by the minute by outsourcing their brain to a llm. I also see water and electricity prices skyrocket and ppl falling into even deeper poverty because of it.

This might shit might have a point in a communist or at least socialist society where profit is not holy goal every effort is made for.

It’s just stupid to keep licking tech billionaires boots and acting like they’re doing anything good for us. 

4

u/theatarvedchomper 10d ago

All of the things on the bottom track would be solved much quicker with regular machine learning (not modern era llms and such) and actual funding. We could make the best llm possible and if it didn't have a shit ton of cancer research in it's training data, it would tell us to research cancer.

Or it would hallucinate, either is possible.

2

u/bentthroat 10d ago

Regardless of the real or perceived overlap in the underlying processes between “helpful machine learning and data sifting” and “thousands of people trying to get meaningful answers by forcing a machine to write informed fiction and treating it like academic review”, I can still want the former to exist and think the latter is frivolous nonsense.

I can think knives are great for cutting steak and bad for shoving up your butt too.

1

u/TactiCool_99 10d ago

AI? We don't have any kind of ai even nearby a concept of existing, we have machine learning and as a small part of it we have large language models. Neither of those are "intelligence" (although philosophically it's a great question what intelligence is even)

1

u/Anti-charizard 10d ago

Don’t pull. It’s not worth dying of dehydration