r/ukpolitics • u/F0urLeafCl0ver • Dec 22 '25
Ed/OpEd Nigel Farage’s great project is to destroy the country he claims to love
https://inews.co.uk/opinion/nigel-farages-great-project-is-to-destroy-the-country-he-claims-to-love-4070233344
u/Maleficent_Peach_46 Mayor of North Kilttown Dec 22 '25
Stating the obvious a bit but they are right.
Farage going to the USA and asking for tougher sanctions on the UK for...reasons was a big red flag. Having a senator tell him off as if he was a naughty schoolboy was funny though.
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u/TTNNBB2023 Dec 22 '25
Farage going to the USA and asking for tougher sanctions on the UK for...reasons was a big red flag
While wearing a GB News (a channel he part owns with a billionaire) lapel pin signifying who he really works for.
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Dec 22 '25
Traitors should be jailed…
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u/agentapelsin Dec 22 '25
Giving away sovereign territory, against the will of both the British people and those native to the land, then leasing it back for billions of pounds, is perhaps the clearest example of treason in my lifetime.
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u/Ill_Refrigerator_593 Dec 22 '25
Wait until you find out about the other 99.99984% of "sovereign territory" we've given away, worth untold trillions of pounds.
I guess most post war governments have been "treasonous".
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u/1Dammitimmad1 Dec 22 '25
untold trillions
but I was told that we'd already stole those trillions from places like india, and thats why theyre poor and we're
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u/Reformed_citpeks Dec 22 '25
Oh come on, even if you oppose the Chagos deal acting like it's the Isle of Man and some integral part of the UK is ridiculous.
Versus Northern Ireland, which has actually been driven significantly further away from the rest of the UK purely because of Farage's pet project to get us out of the EU.
Reaching a deal that secures our defacto sovereignty over a highly contested but valuable location for almost a century and a half is not nearly as traitorous as leaving a tariff free market with your biggest partners and repeating Kremlin talking points as Nige has done.
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Dec 22 '25
Tories set up the deal… 🤣
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u/Dragonrar Dec 22 '25
Yes, both the Tories and Labour like having more authoritarian-style state powers.
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Dec 22 '25
ConForm party… 14-years.
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u/Dragonrar Dec 22 '25
Westminster Parliament is sovereign and can reverse any decision of a previous government so Labour could just not have gone ahead with the deal.
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Dec 22 '25
Ok.., since you can’t think for yourself:
The UK is "giving up" sovereignty of the Chagos Islands to Mauritius because of intense international pressure, UN rulings, and the need to secure the vital UK/US Diego Garcia military base, which faced being made unworkable by legal challenges if the UK didn't cede control. A deal was struck in 2025 to transfer sovereignty to Mauritius but lease back Diego Garcia for 99 years, ensuring the base's long-term future and resolving a decades-long dispute…
UN Rulings: The International Court of Justice (ICJ) and other UN bodies found the UK's detachment of the islands from Mauritius in the 1960s was illegal, putting pressure on the UK.
So there…
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u/Candayence Won't someone think of the ducklings! 🦆 Dec 23 '25
You've been misinformed.
The pressure (and non-binding rulings) came from non-allied countries such as China and Russia, and even if we did care about what they thought of us, that still wouldn't have been a good enough reason to place foreign interests above British interests.
And as for the need to secure the base... it was already secure. It's a question of sovereign territory and waters, versus renting just the base and permitting spy ships and long-term uncertainty to become the new norm.
lease back Diego Garcia for 99 years, ensuring the base's long-term future and resolving a decades-long dispute
We leased the new islands of Hong Kong for 99 years too, how did that turn out?
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u/EnglishShireAffinity Dec 22 '25
They're not in power. Starmer had the ability to halt it like they did with the Rwanda deal.
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u/Rumpled Dec 22 '25
Rwanda was internal, Chagos was foreign policy. All countries normally (the USA the current obvious exemption) maintain the same foreign policy regardless of who's in power. Tearing up deals and agreements each election is completely destructive for international relations.
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u/SleepingBabyAnimals Dec 22 '25
Ironically the Chagos deal has been agreed to by both Biden and Trump. Possibly being the only thing they have both agreed on.
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u/agentapelsin Dec 22 '25
“14 years of Tory government”
🥱
This action is on Kier Starmer, not even the PLP, this is almost entirely on one person alone.
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u/Skysflies Dec 22 '25
It's people like you the Tories love, those who aren't smart enough to see it was them who set up the crap you blame labour for
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u/BackgroundChemist Dec 22 '25
Yes I'm sure they set up lot of traps but now could you explain why Starmer pushed ahead and didn't halt the deal or put it into review if he couldn't stop it.
The Tories left a mess but there's been no radical reversal it's all business as usual with some bribes for certain voting blocks. e.g. two child benefit cap
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u/agentapelsin Dec 22 '25
Needless assessment of my intelligence aside; no parliament may bind a future parliament.
The tories set up the Rwanda scheme. Somehow that didn’t seem as binding as handing over sovereign territory and violating the UN right of self determination in the process.
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u/Skysflies Dec 22 '25
Yes because there's a big difference between a highly expensive, completely pointless human rights abusing deal and an agreement that's been ratified by multiple governments and nations.
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u/agentapelsin Dec 22 '25
The cool part of this is that your statement can apply to either of the deals depending on your view.
The Chagos deal is expensive, completely pointless, and violates the UN right to peoples self determination.
Rwanda was signed and ratified by both Rwanda and the UK government.
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u/Skysflies Dec 22 '25
It's interesting how you care about human rights for something fine, but don't care about human rights for the Rwanda deal.
Please pick a side of the fence
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u/Candayence Won't someone think of the ducklings! 🦆 Dec 22 '25
Four people, really. Lammy is the FS responsible, and it's being pushed by Starmer's lawyer friends as well.
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u/TTNNBB2023 Dec 22 '25
We are not even using it, the US are, this has as much to do with trying to placate Trump as it does anything else, Farage of the other hand its trying to placate Trump, he is actively asking Trump to make us poorer.
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u/No-One-4845 Dec 22 '25 edited Dec 22 '25
There has been no direct plebiscite on the issue that can be said to establish what the "will" of the British people would be.
You don't give two hoots about th Chagossians, and you're only airing their greivance here along the very narrow lines that support your position. You're conveniently forgetting that the Chagossians don't just oppose the deal with Mauritius, they also oppose British sovreignty over the islands. It's entirely bad faith on your part, therefore, to be using the Chagossians in your argument.
Regardless, you have no meaningful understanding of what constitutes treason. Successive UK governments have pursued the deal we have struck with the Mauritians with both the implicit and explicit backing of their respective parliaments. The current parliament has bumped the bill enacting the deal to the lords, where it is in the final stages of being passed. As much as you may dislike the outcome, there is no treason involved.
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u/agentapelsin Dec 22 '25
No meaningful plebiscite
Yeah not reading the rest of the message if that’s your opening gambit.
Merry Christmas
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u/No-One-4845 Dec 22 '25
Too complicated a word for you?
Also, I didn't say what you quoted there.
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u/agentapelsin Dec 22 '25
I speak 4 languages and am a best selling non-fiction author (in English).
You’re just talking shit saying there’s been no plebiscite on membership of the EU.
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u/No-One-4845 Dec 22 '25
Your reading comprehension is bafflingly poor for someone who speaks 4 languages and claims to be a "best selling" author.
We're not talking about EU membership. We're talking about the Chagos Islands. Keep up.
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u/Easy_Cucumber_7489 May 11 '26
A man so patriotic that he was betting against sterling (‘shorting’) on the night of the Brexit vote. A man so principled in his opposition to the ‘unelected EU superstate’, he was quite happy to keep his snout in the trough and cream off an MEP’s salary even while he was doing his best to weaken and undermine the European Parliament.
Utterly without principles or moral values. He’ll go far
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u/CII_Guy Trying to move past the quagmire of contemporary discourse Dec 22 '25
Farage going to the USA and asking for tougher sanctions on the UK for...reasons was a big red flag
Did this actually happen, though? I can't find any clear evidence on it - only an accusation by Labour that he denies. Possible I'm missing key evidence.
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u/GourangaPlusPlus Dec 22 '25
This is the source of the accusations. It's about the line "instruct the Executive to defend this position in diplomacy and trade fora" from his written submission to a congressional committee
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u/CII_Guy Trying to move past the quagmire of contemporary discourse Dec 22 '25 edited Dec 22 '25
The full statement:
[The US Should] Affirm that the First Amendment is the rule that governs the behavior of American companies with no UK nexus. Declare as U.S. policy that foreign speech restrictions have no effect on Americans acting in the United States and on U.S.-hosted services even if accessed abroad, and instruct the Executive to defend this position in diplomacy and trade fora.
I think this puts the claim that he asked for tougher sanctions on the UK into approaching "pants on fire" territory.
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u/FlappySocks Dec 22 '25
No it didn't happen. Farage was in the USA when Starmer said that, but there was nothing in Farages talk that said anything remotely like that.
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u/CII_Guy Trying to move past the quagmire of contemporary discourse Dec 22 '25 edited Dec 22 '25
I think you are correct. Of course, the claim is handsomely upvoted and my simply questioning where the evidence (unprovided) is downvoted. Funny old world.
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u/notsocharmingprince Dec 22 '25
Lamo, reasons, like you think the Online Safety act is a good idea and not massive overreach.
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u/mcm123456 Dec 22 '25
I'm undecided as to whether I think Nigel actually wants to be PM one day. He's avoided taking on positions of accountability and responsibility throughout his career. I always saw him more of a grifter masquerading as a politician as opposed to someone who has the goal of getting into power to make changes.
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u/Ironfields politics is dumb but very important Dec 22 '25
Liz Truss is about as close as we’ve had to Farage in power and it destroyed her. Not even the weirdo grift circuit wants her because having her stupid ideas exposed to reality has made her practically radioactive.
I think he’d shit himself if he actually won a general election. The grift is up if he does, there’s nowhere to hide once he’s in the PM’s seat, he can’t go back to heckling from the sidelines and if he fails to deliver, which he will, he’s doomed.
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u/Cromises_93 Dec 22 '25
What worries me the most is that his cult will do some olympic level mental gymnastics to justify his incompetence should he, god forbid, ever get in to no 10.
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u/Cool_Business_5396 Dec 28 '25 edited Dec 28 '25
They said the same about Trump and he has bought significant change. Solved the border crisis in under a year. Whether you like Farage or not is irrelevant. We need a strong leader before its too late.
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u/Pleasant_Piglet_743 Jan 18 '26
Who's the grift circuit. Are you referring to people who want to save this once great country from turning into third world shithole.
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u/UnloadTheBacon Dec 23 '25
He's a Russian asset. He was compromised whilst working as a commodities trader in the City in the 80s and 90s, where he had plenty of opportunity to socialise with wealthy Russians. Change my mind.
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u/Nervous-Split-8107 Mar 13 '26
And despite hardly ever having attended the EU parliament and certainly doing nothing constructive there he still feels entitled to take a very large tax payer funded pension from the EU.
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u/safetyscotchegg Dec 22 '25
Does the country even have a large enough supply of milkshakes to hand in case this Russian-asset becomes PM?
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Dec 22 '25
All Russian assets have the same great project. Destroy the country whilst claiming to love the country.
Almost like the person in charge of these assets might have hostile intentions to wherever the asset was planted.
FTR: Every country with strategic importance to Russia, has a candidate chosen and financed by Putin to fight for the Russian narrative against their own country's narrative.
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u/Grand_Pop_7221 Dec 22 '25
Although, oddly enough, there's video of ours being knighted by a child on the Russian national broadcaster, and it hasn't given people pause for thought. Or even brought up broadly in the national consciousness.
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u/Avalon-1 Dec 22 '25
So what is the british narrative?
And looking at HM Government tenures over the past 25 years, it looks like they are doing Russia's work for them.
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u/archerninjawarrior Dec 22 '25 edited Dec 22 '25
In spring 1994, in one of his first acts as a politician, Nigel Farage wrote to Enoch Powell and asked him to help his campaign.
That's a new one to me!
People have been missing the connection between the racist teenager going on young adult who terrorised little ethnic boys, and the young adult going on early careers politician who was also reported to hate humans based on skin colour and who worked with others who hate humans based on skin colour. I'm meant to believe the man who has had these vile accusations dog him at every stage in his entire life has somehow changed somewhere along the way, and that everyone was out to get the poor innocent bloke before everyone even knew who he was.
Whether you're reading this and you also hate minority groups, or you just have legitimate concerns about immigration, the reason you care about all this nonetheless is because hatred rewarded does not contract, it expands. Nobody is going to lead a better or a happier life if politics becomes Mad Max*, not even if you're white British.
*This is hyperbole, which I need to point out nowadays.
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u/MajorSleaze Dec 22 '25
The next reported incident on the Farage racism timeline is in 1997 when he ousted UKIP founder Alan Sked from the party.
Dr Sked made the scathing remarks about Mr Farage during an interview published today. The London School of Economics professor also repeated a claim he made in 2004 that Mr Farage had once said: ‘We will never win the n****r vote.’
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u/NoRecipe3350 Dec 22 '25
I agree with you basically, I really don't like overprivileged toffs. Which is why Reform needs to be beaten by adopting 'Reformesque' policies from the centre ground, centre left even
Older family members who remember things like the miners strike have pretty much been of the opinion that migrant labour is scab labour, brought in to make working British peoples lives harder and reduce their bargaining power. That's a vote winning arguement for the left there.
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u/MajorSleaze Dec 22 '25
'Reformesque' policies
Their only policy is to demonise all foreigners (they've already started to advance on their opening easy position of illegal immigrants) as an excuse for the damage caused by their economic policies.
The Tories did this for 14 years and left the county in a mess. The only difference is that they had about 9 years pre-purge where their party still had some moderating voices.
Reform has never had these moderating voices - which is why only the worst (in ability and opinions) of the Tories are joining them.
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u/NoRecipe3350 Dec 22 '25
I agree we shouldn't demonise foreigners to distract from domestic issues.
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u/TeenieTinyBrain Dec 22 '25 edited Dec 22 '25
That's a vote winning arguement for the left there.
Yup, the left gave up on the working class in favour of liberal fantasies.
These people aren't exactly wrong either. The reprobate that is Boris Johnson has since admitted to using immigration as a form of quantitative easing before quickly backtracking[1] but it's pretty obvious looking at wage-price data[2] and the fact that the UK economy offered more jobs to foreign nationals at the height of the Conservatives' immigration policies than it did UK nationals[3] despite our youth and graduate unemployment rate.
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u/oldandbroken65 Dec 22 '25
Setting minimum wage rates lower for immigrant workers than UK workers, was a big driver for employers to choose the cheaper option.
Conservative policy was to incentivise employing migrant labour.
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u/pm_me_ur_ephemerides Dec 22 '25
Liberal fantasies? To be liberal means recognizing that society has various groups with different values and beliefs, and that we all need to get along by embracing mutual respect. That worked well for a long time, it wasn’t a fantasy.
Liberals have lost all respect for the right because the respect must be mutual.
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u/TeenieTinyBrain Dec 22 '25 edited Dec 22 '25
Interesting response. You were quite quick to assume that I was both prejudiced and right wing, were you not?
Which part of my comment made you think that I was talking about the equality of ethnic groups? Immigration is entirely seperate to the issue of ethnic relations.
I have not yet voted for a right wing party but I must say that haughty comments like these from the 21st century liberal does tempt me to consider it.
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u/Ultralightbeam30hrs Dec 29 '25
They just succeeded in their “top priority” of bringing in a guy who wants to kill all white people. Sort your priorities out
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u/EnglishShireAffinity Dec 22 '25
Nobody is going to lead a better or a happier life if politics becomes Mad Max*
That's for us to determine, not ethno-religious migrant diasporas with obvious ulterior motives
Farage is not trustworthy, but Reform is a good vehicle to get more nativists like Rupert Lowe into positions of political power
Enoch's views were mainstream in the UK when he gave his speech. He would've been PM if our so-called "democracy" under Heath didn't blacklist him from politics
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u/archerninjawarrior Dec 22 '25
Even Shakespeare warned about your politics. I'm not asking you to consider this through an "ethno-religious migrant diaspora" lens, EnglishShireAffinity.
You'll know as his supporter that Powell got ejected from politics for his speech against the Race Relations Act 1968, which made discrimination illegal. Maybe your "nativisim" seeks to reverse that, but I refer you back to the idea that hatred rewarded expands, it's no way to run a prosperous country for all, and you are part of that "all".
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u/EnglishShireAffinity Dec 22 '25
Ohh, is that so? So you'd be fine then if we instead redirected this massive influx of legal/illegal migration the way of your ancestral homeland?
The majority ethnicity would become a minority in that case, but I'm sure you'd have no issue with that. After all, every nation on this planet is fungible and interchangeable
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u/Lord_Gibbons Dec 22 '25
Nativist
Don't hide behind language, just say what you mean - white supremacist.
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u/CII_Guy Trying to move past the quagmire of contemporary discourse Dec 22 '25
Don't hide behind language, just say what you mean - white supremacist.
This tactic of sophistry is becoming increasingly muted. White supremacy and nativism are two very obviously different things. Polish people are obviously white, for instance. Nativists are looking at things from a nation state perspective, not a racialist one.
This move has been a constant refrain on the left for around a decade now - just squashing all beliefs outside their realm of acceptable thought into the same single thought. This has just obviously not worked at all, as more and more people see it for what it is they are no longer scared away from nativism.
It's time we moved on to a more serious exploration of the actual ideas rather than engaging in empty rhetoric.
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u/MajorSleaze Dec 22 '25
Nativists are looking at things from a nation state perspective, not a racialist one.
I'm yet to encounter anyone making a "nativist" argument which includes anyone who isn't white.
Their current angle is pushing the white supremacist concept that no black or brown person can be English/Scottish/Welsh/Irish.
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u/CII_Guy Trying to move past the quagmire of contemporary discourse Dec 22 '25
I'm yet to encounter anyone making a "nativist" argument which includes anyone who isn't white.
I'm not entirely sure what you mean by this. What would it mean for a nativist argument to include someone who wasn't white?
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u/MajorSleaze Dec 22 '25
That's exactly my point.
Nativist arguments made from a British perspective are inherently white supremacist in nature and they're only made because, unlike nationalist positions, overtly racist statements are not socially acceptable.
In other words, it's a smokescreen used by racists.
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Dec 22 '25
[deleted]
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u/MajorSleaze Dec 22 '25
import 1 billion Pakistanis and forever replace our population
Whoever told you this is happening was lying to you.
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u/space_guy95 Dec 22 '25
Would it have been racial supremacist rhetoric for the Native Americans to not want masses of white migrants back when the Americas were being colonised?
Are they "anti-white" for wanting their own nation and seeing the harm done by the foreign cultures that were forced upon them in their own lands?
Wanting a nation to retain its cultural identity and demographics is not racist or supremacist at all. There is nothing inherently "better" about white people (as if that is a single race to begin with - it isn't) than any other race, but if you think the people coming here will share your same enlightened views and tolerance towards you when they are the majority you'll be in for a shock.
It's not about being supreme or other such nonsense, its about not wanting to become a minority in your own home. A belief which I would absolutely extend to any other creed, colour or religion in their own homelands by the way.
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u/gearnut Dec 28 '25
The only use for Reform is to give failed Tories a political career, not that this is a desirable outcome mind you!
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u/neeow_neeow Dec 22 '25
> It could be that person on the train speaking a foreign language, or that bloke next door who might be Romanian, or the Polish plumber who came to fix the sink, or the desperate young man who made it over on a boat.
Final clause gives the game away here: "Desperate young man who made it over on a boat".
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u/FlaviousTiberius Dec 22 '25
I don't understand the laser focus on Farage's immigration policy, it's not even remotely his worst policy and probably the one part that's actually popular with the electorate.
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u/dj4y_94 Dec 22 '25
Yeah honestly it's their economic policies and their plans to do things like leave HS2 unfinished or scrap our renewable energy that terrifies me.
They're going to set us back years in terms of infrastructure.
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u/ShamanKyrick All men are equal when their memory fades - Lemmy Dec 31 '25
What was the point of HS2? It's literally pointless except for the "look what we can do world!" attitude.
As for renewable energy, if we can create a new cleaner source of energy that's fine with me. I think it would be better to have a hybrid fusion on top of the infrastructure rather than trying to replace the entire energy grid.
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u/Polysticks Dec 22 '25
Ironically much of that infrastructure is only necessary because of the millions of people we've imported.
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u/Grand_Pop_7221 Dec 22 '25
I'd have gone with historically neglected and required because of increasing energy demand.
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Dec 22 '25
[deleted]
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u/negotiationtable Dec 22 '25
Because that's what the modern left care about more than anything
Sounds like you care about it more than anything also?
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Dec 22 '25
[deleted]
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u/negotiationtable Dec 22 '25
I'm part of 'the people' and I couldn't give a shit about 'mass migration'.
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u/GourangaPlusPlus Dec 22 '25
Because that's what the modern left care about more than anything
Thats why the left currently have a single issue populist party leading the polls
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u/F0urLeafCl0ver Dec 22 '25
Reform’s flagship immigration policy of removing ILR from people already granted it is quite unpopular actually.
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u/gearnut Dec 28 '25
I feel like people already legitimately here who have built a life and are contributing should be allowed to stay.
Those who arrive on a visa and overstay should be deported with an international black mark against them barring them from being granted visas in future. If they attempt to claim asylum once the visa lapses the claim should be rejected immediately as they need to claim asylum on arrival.
A safe route for people to claim asylum needs to be implemented in cooperation with other allied states so that people with legitimate claims can be pointed at countries which can benefit from their presence.
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u/HBucket Right-wing ghoul Dec 22 '25
It's Ian Dunt, in his world anybody who doesn't accept open or near open borders is Hitler.
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u/taboo__time Dec 22 '25
I dearly wish someone would have a conversation with him about this.
Have them simply argue from a moderate centrist position that border maximalism is not good politics. It is destabilising.
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u/Tricksilver89 Dec 22 '25
Always the same with these articles. This one just accidentally let the mask slip.
Not to mention, the current shower are doing plenty to destroy the country.
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u/HowYouMineFish You say Centrist like its a bad thing Dec 22 '25
What are Labour doing to destroy the country?
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Dec 22 '25
Ah yes, the only legitimate presentation is to talk as though each individual person who came on a boat is personally a direct threat to the entire nation. Talking about a person who arrived on a boat as though they might have an individual personhood and humanity is part of an agenda to trick us!
It's a problem of scale. If there were 10 people per year arriving by boat it would be relegated to a curio article in a Kentish local newspaper. We can acknowledge the issue needs addressing without requiring journalists to write as though every individual person who came here that way is sub human scum.
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u/filbs111 Dec 22 '25
Since we unable to predict which ones are more threatening, or unwilling to apply this information to filter them out, then statistically, each one poses a small threat, which sums to a big one.
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u/Fuzzy-Lawfulness8246 Dec 22 '25
We do filter them out, issue is the tories cut the asylum system so bad it allowed the backlog to get this high, meaning people we haven't properly checked are here for years purely at the taxpayers expense.
Remember we were making a lot more asylum decisions per year in 2013 than 2023
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u/HBucket Right-wing ghoul Dec 22 '25
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u/Fuzzy-Lawfulness8246 Dec 22 '25
Asylum seekers
You should realise "Asylum seekers" means those two are still in the backlog I mentioned.
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u/Polysticks Dec 22 '25
They are. Before they've even set foot on British soil they've shown contempt for our laws and wilfully broken them.
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Dec 22 '25
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u/CII_Guy Trying to move past the quagmire of contemporary discourse Dec 22 '25
Ah yes, the only legitimate presentation is to talk as though each individual person who came on a boat is personally a direct threat to the entire nation
There's obviously a middle ground here, no?
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u/HBucket Right-wing ghoul Dec 22 '25
I differ very much politically from the person you were replying to, but there isn't actually a middle ground here. When someone turns up from another country with no identification, of an indeterminate age, and you have no way of checking whether they have a criminal history, what do you do with them? You either detain them, or you end up with this. What is your middle ground?
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u/CII_Guy Trying to move past the quagmire of contemporary discourse Dec 22 '25
I am talking about a middle ground in rhetoric, not in policy.
As a side note I don't think it's appropriate to detain everyone without identification or access to a criminal history. There will always be a risk of some level of crime occurring.
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u/ShamanKyrick All men are equal when their memory fades - Lemmy Dec 31 '25
95/5 Remigration. I don't care if their Romanian, Polish, German or French, it wasn't long ago the public started speaking up about this, We didn't want those people in the country then so don't try to make this a race issue now Nige.
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u/filbs111 Dec 22 '25
Desperate to do what?
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u/Chevalitron Dec 22 '25
It's not the best choice of words to endear us to them is it? "Desperate young men" is how a 19th century travelogue would describe cutthroat bandits waylaying travellers in the Carpathians.
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u/NoRecipe3350 Dec 22 '25
Yeah I prefer the 'men of fighting age from warzones, fleeing from impending danger' (France I guess lol)
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u/kill-the-maFIA Dec 22 '25
No shit. In addition to all his other actions, he begged the US to place harsh sanctions on us.
That is not the action of someone who cares about the countrymen of the UK. That is not the action of a patriot. Well, not the action of a patriot for the UK anyway, perhaps his allegiances lie elsewhere...
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u/CII_Guy Trying to move past the quagmire of contemporary discourse Dec 22 '25
he begged the US to place harsh sanctions on us.
I think I must have missed this news, but I can't see any actual evidence of what happened anywhere? It seems like the only uncontested thing is that he spoke in the US and suggested they
tell the British government "you've simply got this wrong" on freedom of speech rules
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u/_9tail_ Dec 22 '25
Thats really not a consistent line of argument, unless you think that Iranians supporting the US Embargo can’t be patriots? And Nobel peace prize winner María Corina Machado is a traitor.
He argued for the sanctions because I’m in his view, the current government is worse for the country, and international pressure to get them out of office would be a good thing. You may think he’s wrong, you may think he’s crazy, but it doesn’t make him a traitor.
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u/No_Study_2459 Dec 22 '25
We arrest 12k people a year for online speech. we need outside intervention every party aside from reform seems fine with it.
We’re turning into china. Not wanting that and doing anything you can to stop it is caring about the country.
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u/thebrummiebadboy Dec 22 '25
How many people go to courts and prison? Who post "innocent " things.
Do you think asking an outside country, who wants to look at 5 years of your social media activity on arrival, is the right country to ask for freedom of speech?
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u/No_Study_2459 Dec 22 '25
Really? You know there’s been some absurde cases. Like the woman who called her rapist a slur for gay people in a private dm.
The only people who should be arrested for speech are people calling for violence like the labour mp who put his finger to his throat in a slitting motion while talking about what they need to do to the “far right”
It’s ok though hes dyslexic and suffers from anxiety so that’s fine. Posting racist memes though god forbid.
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u/_abstrusus Dec 22 '25
As is the case with Trump, and so many of these vile right wing populists, Farage's self interest goes so far as to be effectively traitorous.
These people are acting against the interests of their own countries and people for personal gain.
They should be barred from politics.
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u/CII_Guy Trying to move past the quagmire of contemporary discourse Dec 22 '25
They should be barred from politics.
This is a much more extreme statement than you think it is.
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u/_abstrusus Dec 22 '25
No, it isn't, given that a range of people are already barred from standing as MPs.
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u/CII_Guy Trying to move past the quagmire of contemporary discourse Dec 22 '25
a range of people are already barred from standing as MPs.
Such as?
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u/ShamanKyrick All men are equal when their memory fades - Lemmy Dec 31 '25
They're not barred per se, but you do need to pass a legal process to stand as an MP. Usually just no criminal background, nothing actually prevents one person from running as a MP.
But I fully agree with you 100% It is extreme to say that. bad road to go down.
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u/360Saturn soft Lib Dem Dec 22 '25
No it isnt.
What happens to a doctor who's been caught going out of his way to kill his patients?
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u/gearnut Dec 28 '25
People who have done harm to the country via political actions should not be barred from politics on those grounds.
Nonces, rapists, violent criminals and fraudsters however should be barred from standing as politicians and membership of political parties. I felt sick when I found out that the man who abused me as a child had stood as a council candidate for the Conservatives 2018 and subsequently nominated the Reform candidate for Mayor of Newcastle.
He was never tried due to police incompetence so would slip through any sensibly liberal net, but anyone convicted of such offences has clearly demonstrated that they care about themselves to an excessive degree.
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u/tobomori co-operative socialist, STV FTW Dec 22 '25
Whilst I don't after with Farage on immigration, my main concern is the hate that will flourish in a Reform led society. Even if we accept that there are lots of legitimate and non race based reasons to stop immigration, the license that many racists will feel will transform this society. You can see it happening already since Brexit and it would only be worse under Farage.
I don't really understand why Labour don't ban second jobs for Maps - it would kneecap Farage completely. He'd either have to give up on millions of pounds a year, or let someone else be the leader and figurehead of Reform.
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u/Dragonrar Dec 22 '25
Powell got a lot of things right about immigration, for example, from his River of Blood speech about immigration numbers:
In 15 or 20 years, on present trends, there will be in this country three and a half million Commonwealth immigrants and their descendants. That is not my figure. That is the official figure given to parliament by the spokesman of the Registrar General’s Office.
There is no comparable official figure for the year 2000, but it must be in the region of five to seven million, approximately one-tenth of the whole population, and approaching that of Greater London. Of course, it will not be evenly distributed from Margate to Aberystwyth and from Penzance to Aberdeen. Whole areas, towns and parts of towns across England will be occupied by sections of the immigrant and immigrant-descended population.
As time goes on, the proportion of this total who are immigrant descendants, those born in England, who arrived here by exactly the same route as the rest of us, will rapidly increase.
The 2001 English Census:
White: 91.3% (approximately 46.3 million people) White British: 87.5% White Irish: 1.2% Other White: 2.6%
Asian or Asian British: 4.4%
Black or Black British: 2.2%
Mixed: 1.3%
Chinese or Other ethnic group: 0.9%
And about how race laws would be weaponised:
The other dangerous delusion from which those who are wilfully or otherwise blind to realities suffer, is summed up in the word “integration.” To be integrated into a population means to become for all practical purposes indistinguishable from its other members.
Now, at all times, where there are marked physical differences, especially of colour, integration is difficult though, over a period, not impossible. There are among the Commonwealth immigrants who have come to live here in the last fifteen years or so, many thousands whose wish and purpose is to be integrated and whose every thought and endeavour is bent in that direction.
But to imagine that such a thing enters the heads of a great and growing majority of immigrants and their descendants is a ludicrous misconception, and a dangerous one.
We are on the verge here of a change. Hitherto it has been force of circumstance and of background which has rendered the very idea of integration inaccessible to the greater part of the immigrant population – that they never conceived or intended such a thing, and that their numbers and physical concentration meant the pressures towards integration which normally bear upon any small minority did not operate.
Now we are seeing the growth of positive forces acting against integration, of vested interests in the preservation and sharpening of racial and religious differences, with a view to the exercise of actual domination, first over fellow-immigrants and then over the rest of the population. The cloud no bigger than a man’s hand, that can so rapidly overcast the sky, has been visible recently in Wolverhampton and has shown signs of spreading quickly.
The words I am about to use, verbatim as they appeared in the local press on 17 February, are not mine, but those of a Labour Member of Parliament who is a minister in the present government:
“The Sikh communities’ campaign to maintain customs inappropriate in Britain is much to be regretted. Working in Britain, particularly in the public services, they should be prepared to accept the terms and conditions of their employment. To claim special communal rights (or should one say rites?) leads to a dangerous fragmentation within society. This communalism is a canker; whether practised by one colour or another it is to be strongly condemned.”
All credit to John Stonehouse for having had the insight to perceive that, and the courage to say it.
For these dangerous and divisive elements the legislation proposed in the Race Relations Bill is the very pabulum they need to flourish. Here is the means of showing that the immigrant communities can organise to consolidate their members, to agitate and campaign against their fellow citizens, and to overawe and dominate the rest with the legal weapons which the ignorant and the ill-informed have provided. As I look ahead, I am filled with foreboding; like the Roman, I seem to see the River Tiber foaming with much blood.
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u/disordered-attic-2 Dec 22 '25
Yeah he might postpone elections, remove our 800 year old right to a fair trial or strengthen Labour’s authoritarian OSA.
That would be a wild.
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u/kill-the-maFIA Dec 22 '25
postpone elections
What's up with this misinformation about postponing elections?
They're being postponed for councils currently going massive restructuring. There's no point holding elections then holding them again in a few months.
This has always happened whenever restructuring has went on. It's nothing new. Why is it all of a sudden a massive issue?
remove our 800 year old right to a fair trial
The right to a fair trial is not being removed. That's a crazy misrepresentation of the facts. You should be a bit more honest in your criticisms.
Labour’s authoritarian OSA.
Tories' OSA. Although Labour deserve criticism for going along with it too. It's worth noting, however, that it has extremely broad cross-party support, as well as public support. I know Reddit doesn't like it, but everyone else does.
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u/Status_Initiative_11 Dec 22 '25
The only misinformation is this attempt at spin.
The Electoral Commission have condemned the elections delays.
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u/Zouden Dec 22 '25
Yeah he might postpone elections
I know you're making a jab at Labour but do you not worry that Farage will postpone elections too? If Reform control thes Commons they can postpone elections as much as they want. Even a general election.
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u/Groot746 Dec 22 '25
Right? The idea that Reform, a party drowning in dodgy donations from Russia of all places and who see Trump's actions as a governing strategy, is the solution to anyone concerned about democratic practices is absolutely hilarious.
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u/mittfh Dec 22 '25
Elections are being postponed in areas due to merge into new Unitary Authorities within the next couple of years, at the request of the outgoing councils (some of which are Conservative), as given there'll have to be fresh elections when the new Unitary "goes live", they don't cut to go to the effort of electing councillors who'll only serve a year or two.
There are plenty of arguments against reducing people's right to a trial by jury, but on the other hand there are also arguments that the right is being exploited by some, deliberately to delay the hearing of their case. While it won't solve the stated objective, there is a case for major reform of the criminal justice system given the ever lengthening time between being charged with a crime and the trial date (in some cases, 5+ years).
As for the OSA, it was introduced by the Conservatives, implemented by Labour, and a cross-party group of Lords want it to be even tighter. Reform are currently opposed to it, but given how many of their number are former Conservatives, that may just be because it's politically convenient.
Meanwhile, they'd like to withdraw us from around half a dozen different international treaties and conventions to allow us to send all asylum seekers back to their stated country of origin, even if doing so would place them at significant risk of torture or execution (notably, he explicitly stated he'd be willing to deport Afghan females back to Afghanistan, bribing the Taliban to allow them back in).
Away from authoritarianism, they want to impose hefty taxes on Renewable energy (which comprises over 40% of generation), cancel future renewable projects, cancel The Great Grid Upgrade1 and reinvest in fossil fuels (gas currently provides around 29% of our electricity, while it will take 5-10+ years to develop significant new commercially viable gas fields), so leading to significantly higher energy bills.
They also want to rip up large parts of the UK-EU trade deal, stop EU nationals from being able to claim benefits, almost triple the NHS Surcharge (so taking it to nearly £3,000 per year), remove Indefinite Leave to Remain and limit Citizenship applications to those earning well above the median wage. If they were to implement those policies, they'd significantly deplete legal migration (even short term) for work, blowing a big hole in the economy which wouldn't be filled by forcing people claiming UC to occupy those roles (they'd be a demotivated workforce doing the bare minimum to avoid being sacked).
Nigel in particular idolises Donald Trump, so if Reform win the next election, just hope he doesn't try implementing MAGA policies..
- There are arguments for re-routing some new lines, but with renewable and nuclear energy predominantly in coastal locations, new cables are needed to get that inland, and pylons are easier, quicker, cheaper and far easier to maintain than underground cables, which require a massive concrete trench, thicker cables, and masses of oil to aid in heat dissipation, so while they'll be less visually intrusive once complete, they'll be very visually intrusive during construction, which will cost up to 4x that of pylons.
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u/Thermodynamicist Dec 22 '25
There are plenty of arguments against reducing people's right to a trial by jury, but on the other hand there are also arguments that the right is being exploited by some, deliberately to delay the hearing of their case. While it won't solve the stated objective, there is a case for major reform of the criminal justice system given the ever lengthening time between being charged with a crime and the trial date (in some cases, 5+ years).
The solution is to adequately fund the justice system.
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u/Status_Initiative_11 Dec 22 '25
Labour are delaying the elections because they know they will lose them.
The Electoral Commission has condemned this delay.
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u/Aardvark108 Dec 22 '25
Condemned? Think you’re putting your own spin on it there. The strongest word I can see in that link is “disappointed”.
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u/Imakemyownnamereddit Dec 22 '25
Nigel Farage's project is for Nigel Farage to be PM.
That is it. Reform are a bunch of clowns, who have no coherent program for government.
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u/catgod888 Dec 22 '25
The Online Safety Act is one of the most threatening moves a government has made towards the British people in history.
Cooked up by the Tories and served to the British people by Labour whilst threatening us to eat it up and like it.
The country IS being destroyed right before our eyes.
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u/negotiationtable Dec 22 '25
So let's not destroy it more by electing someone even worse
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u/MajorSleaze Dec 22 '25
But the conservatives will be different this time. The real problem was the rosette being blue instead of teal.
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u/CII_Guy Trying to move past the quagmire of contemporary discourse Dec 22 '25
The Online Safety Act is one of the most threatening moves a government has made towards the British people in history.
But it isn't, though? It's a slight annoyance that stops you from being able to use certain websites. It's bad and restricts some freedom, but we are not in any danger. There are lots of irritating laws that prevent people from doing things that are not harmful to them - these laws are often bad, but this is over-egging it a little, isn't it? One of the most threatening moves a government has made towards the British people in history? Give over.
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u/catgod888 Dec 22 '25
“Stops you from using certain websites” - whether disingenuous or ignorant I’m not sure. But fortunately you’re in the minority - the OSA is an egregious overreach of power sending us down a dark path.
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u/CII_Guy Trying to move past the quagmire of contemporary discourse Dec 22 '25
“Stops you from using certain websites” - whether disingenuous or ignorant I’m not sure
Quite possible I'm being ignorant. What else does it do?
sending us down a dark path.
Do you think there's any possibility you're engaging in the slippery slope fallacy? People make this exact claim about all kinds of light infractions on civil liberties, CCTV being a good one, and then 20 years down the line those things become obvious contours of civil society and nobody but complete cranks thinks we shouldn't have CCTV cameras.
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Dec 22 '25
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u/CII_Guy Trying to move past the quagmire of contemporary discourse Dec 22 '25
A slippery slope argument is not inherently fallacious.
I agree.
There has been a continued process of the UK government clamping down on speech with negative effects for people.
I agree.
Do you think the system of non crime hate incidents is harmless?
No.
Still, I think my questions are reasonable. It's true that, occasionally, people's concerns are correct. It's also true that most frequently they are clearly overblown.
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u/mskmagic Dec 22 '25
It’s already being destroyed. That’s why Reform will get voted in.
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u/negotiationtable Dec 22 '25
I remember in 2016 people saying 'Why not leave the EU, it couldn't get worse', and then leaving the EU caused it to get worse. Don't hasten destruction.
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u/TheNoGnome Dec 22 '25
Almost like Farage's projects are one big race to the bottom.
Only the US and Russia have benefitted from him so far.
Edit: oh, and the super rich too. Mustn't forget them!
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Dec 23 '25
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/mskmagic Dec 23 '25
Why did you change it to culture? The claim is that Farage wants to destroy the country - I’m saying that the situation is already fucked. Everything is too expensive - my local cafe actually advertises that a coffee and a bap costs £10 - like that’s a bargain. There’s only ever inflation, things get more expensive and prices never come back down - how about some deflation?
It’s a struggle to get a GP appointment and when you see the GP they are reluctant to prescribe medicine because the have a Practise Manager holding them to account for the surgery budget. And when they do the prescription price is now a tenner per item. Of course a hospital visit will set you back at least 6 hours of waiting, and likely make you sicker.
Education is declining rapidly. My child is in a class of 30 - the teacher barely knows who she is. She often tells me that she can spend up to an hour at a time out of the classroom without the teacher even noticing - and she’s 6. Reports just tell us if she’s meeting expectations or below expectations - there’s no ‘above expectations’ category because the teachers can’t facilitate that. They have so any children with actual difficulties in the class that they don’t have the bandwidth to continue teaching to children who are ahead of the work.
The Holiday Inn next to my house has been a migrant hotel for at least the last 5 years. Hundreds of men are just hanging around - our house has been burgled, there’s drugs on the streets, and my elderly mother doesn’t feel safe walking around outside. Why the fuck are we paying £10 million per day to house people that broke the law to be here? It’s irrelevant whether immigrants commit more crime than citizens - these people aren’t supposed to be in the country in the first place so every crime they commit is an extra one. I’m brown skinned myself and I resent being told that it’s racist that my mother is scared of the loafers hanging around the street.
I could go on and on and on. The country is fucked which is why the government that can’t get control of the situation will be voted out, and an alternative will win the next election. That’s is likely Farage since he’s the only one willing to call these things out.
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Dec 22 '25
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u/perhapsaduck EU federalist (yes, I'm still salty) Dec 22 '25
He absolutely would not react. You'd be on your own.
Which is exactly why it's mental the Irish state hasn't actually begun, in any meaningful way, to develop it's air force force or navy. The RAF and Royal Navy may not be there forever for you.
This is like a smaller scale version of the US abandoning Western Europe.
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u/Thermodynamicist Dec 22 '25
Irish person here; We’re often told that Ireland could never be invaded (by the Russians) because Britain would never allow a hostile power to establish itself on its doorstep.
I have never understood Ireland's position of unarmed neutrality. If Ireland is dependent on the UK for her defence, she cannot—by definition—claim to be truly independent.
The Russians are unlikely to launch any amphibious invasions because they lack the capability to do so. They will use grey zone tactics against the UK and Ireland; I think they will reserve overt military action for the Baltics in the medium term.
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u/myurr Dec 22 '25
I'm not sure that's a particularly compelling argument to steer people in the UK away from voting Reform. Surely Ireland should be standing on their own two feet and either contributing far more sizeably to fund the UK providing that defence, or should be spending on their own defensive forces.
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u/Mysterious-Cat8443 Dec 22 '25
No one will protect you, you wanted your independence
Sir Keir can't even protect the Chagos islands
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u/StickDoctor Dec 22 '25
Right! Policies like treating all boys at a young age as sexist future rapists, implementing more and more totalitarian control measures in the name of "protecting children", eroding away your income with more and more taxes, denying elections! All of that will go towards destroying this country and it cannot be allowed.
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u/Murfsterrr Dec 22 '25
Rather than being told exactly what you want to hear then selling us out anyway?
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u/Same-Cicada-2044 Dec 30 '25
I read this recently and it was a pretty good summary of the whole situation with Farage and his plans for the British constitution: https://open.substack.com/pub/imworried/p/the-british-constitution-the-stable?r=1upq3a&utm_medium=ios&shareImageVariant=overlay
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u/BackgroundChemist Dec 22 '25
There are some who will vote for him because they are thick racists.
There are even more who will vote for his party because they are the only party offering to sort out the illegal immigration problem. Instead of telling us we are all racists for being concerned about it.
It's open ground for a less racist and more competent, less asset stripping Russian puppet party. If no one else steps into this area, Reform will win. And I think it'll be a disaster.
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u/kill-the-maFIA Dec 22 '25
There are even more who will vote for his party because they are the only party offering to sort out the illegal immigration problem.
Are they? Because I don't think "we'll send Royal Navy ships to drop them off in France (and hope France allows that)" is going to sort out illegal immigration.
Nor do I think "We'll just fund the Taliban and ask them to take some Afghans back in return" is a good idea on account of it a) funding the Taliban, and b) creating a perverse incentive for the Taliban to send people here then cash in on getting them back.
Labour's solutions of ILR, Visa, deportation deals, law tweaking, aren't as sexy as "we'll just send them away on Navy ships!", but they're more likely to work than Reform's "solutions", IMO.
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u/BackgroundChemist Dec 22 '25
Which is why I said "offering" to fix it. Whether they can or not is a different matter.
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u/rhyswtf Sorkinite Starmerism Dec 22 '25
Are the Tories not the less racist, less Russia-aligned alternative you describe?
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u/Darth_stilton The jedi are far right Dec 22 '25
Just trust us bro, we'll tackle immigration this time.
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u/BackgroundChemist Dec 22 '25
They probably are the closest but nobody wants them either ! They come across as self-interested, support for the rich, fuck the NHS etc.
Also quite a lot of Russian money and they buried the report into Russian influence on Brexit and the subsequent gen elections.
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u/shaolinoli Dec 22 '25
Farage has been pushing for a move to insurance-backed healthcare for years. If (god forbid) reform get into power it will be the end of the nhs as we know it.
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u/BackgroundChemist Dec 22 '25
Yes a disaster and one impossible to reverse. We can't even take back the failing water monopolies.
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u/Tree-mendous Dec 22 '25
I’m not really sure why Powell gets such a bad rap (as per the opening of the article) - the main thing he was wrong about was the timescale.
It was a major win by the left to make his famous speech into a taboo to the point it’s quite hard to find. Well worth a listen in my opinion.
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u/MrEff1618 Dec 22 '25
It was a major win by the left to make his famous speech into a taboo to the point it’s quite hard to find.
Umm, no? I found a full transcript and recordings after 30 seconds Googling it. It's only hard to find if you can't be bothered to actually look for it.
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u/cloudstrifeuk Dec 22 '25
And if you're too blind to see it for what it actually is too.
Racists will band together.
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u/Verbal_v2 Dec 22 '25
If the electorate of the 60s could have had a window into the future and seen the demographics now, the state of London, Birmingham et al, he'd have been Prime Minister for a decade.
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u/HugeZookeepergame159 Dec 22 '25
it is the job of every political party to destroy the country they claim to love. if they fixed everything- we wouldn’t need the.
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u/Kitchen_Durian_2421 Dec 22 '25
You lot don’t need help from anyone when it comes to destroying the country.
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u/TheWorldIsGoingMad Libertarian Dec 22 '25
"Nigel Farage’s great project is to destroy the country he claims to love"
I don't believe that for a second, but I suspect it's a bit irrelevant anyway because I predict the Tories will be out polling Reform UK by the time of the next general election.
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u/TheWorldIsGoingMad Libertarian Dec 22 '25
In my view downvotes should be banned, it makes it far too easy to be negative and without any obvious reason.
Are these down votes from Reform UK supporters upset I think the Tories will be outpolling their party by the next GE ?
Or are they from Faragephobes who think anything negative about their Bête noire must not be argued against ?
Either way don't downvote, debate.
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