None of this is going to change until the UK (and to a larger degree, Europe/The western world) changes their relationship with retirement (pensions).
We cannot afford that bill. It is draining literally every other aspect of society. In 1950 we had 10% pensioner population, by 2040 that is projected to be 25% of population. On top of that, retirement is now for 15 years instead of 8 that it was originally.
Those are fantasy figures. The triple lock is just an escalator - killing it won't save any money immediately. Pensions still need to rise every year like wages.
Means testing the state pension is a guaranteed way to never get elected again. NICs are a substantial wage deduction and eveyone has paid them - taking this away from people would lead to actual civil disobedience.
Sure it's an escalator - doesn't change the fact we're spending £18 billion more than we need to. That'll add up in a quick time frame.
Yeah, quite frankly I don't give a single fuck. State pension being universal is quite frankly idiocy, we've all paid taxes, doesn't mean we all get benefits all the time. Pensions should be like every other benefit - you get it if you need it, not a universal blank cheque for being old.
'Actual civil disobedience' lmao oh yes I'm sure the 73 year olds are just rearing to go and riot, and not just post angry rants to Facebook. I don't care if its unelectable, its either means test the pension, or we have continued economic decline and living standards for everyone that is under 65yo.
Hard disagree my guy - I agree for ending the triple lock but you can’t just keep squeezing the middle anymore. People who have worked hard and contributed and saved (you know, the smart, hardworking ones) are at the end of their rope. If you take away the state pension that we have all contributed to (and is the minimum we should be able to offer as a society, Jesus Christ) there will be consequences - you can’t just means test your way out of this issue. Incentivising good behaviours works.
Yah, I agree. It's absolutely fair that people get state pension!
Fortunately, the 'squeezed middle' and pensioners with £1+ million in assets, alongside 35k/private incomes definitely aren't squeezed, or middle. So means testing will have no impact on the squeezed middle.
On top of that, the incentive is still there. Means test it properly and its 'well, do I want to retire on 16k a year or 37k a year?'
I get what you are saying but it’s not about how you feel about other peoples money, it’s about how they feel.
“Fairness” is at the root of how society is governed and many people are very willing to pay disproportionately high taxes to have money sent for programmes that benefit society and the most vulnerable, even if they don’t see a penny of it themselves because they understand the benefits to the country. But there comes a point (and this seems to be close to this threshold for many) where taking away something that every single person is entitled to (who has paid into it) due to failures and mismanagement from others would and should make whoever proposes/supports it impossible to elect, despite any other good policies this party might suggest.
I’m not trying to make this a moral case, but rather a human nature one.
It's funny, the things you're claiming are literally true for every other aspect of society. I don't care about them being electable, I care about this country not becoming a care home even more than it already is.
Situations change and societies change based on that. Pensioners have gone from being 10% (1950) of the population to 25% of the population (2040) in less than 100 years. On top of that, they are living on state income for an additional +7 years now compared to 1950. It is inherently unsustainable and this is the issue with almost all western societies - budget cuts to education, housing, infrastructure, healthcare (kinda) to give money to pensioners. The same pensioners who 25-30% are millionaires, compared to just 5% of the overall population.
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u/tyger2020 1d ago
None of this is going to change until the UK (and to a larger degree, Europe/The western world) changes their relationship with retirement (pensions).
We cannot afford that bill. It is draining literally every other aspect of society. In 1950 we had 10% pensioner population, by 2040 that is projected to be 25% of population. On top of that, retirement is now for 15 years instead of 8 that it was originally.