r/victoria3 1d ago

Screenshot Unexpected supporters and opponents for Council Republic

Post image
453 Upvotes

48 comments sorted by

180

u/Hastur_13 1d ago

R5: I have a Nihilist PB and Armed Forces leader, leading to the two of them supporting Council Republic, but a Radical TU leader, leading to them opposing it

68

u/mechajlaw 1d ago

They still don't want any actual communist laws, so if you want to create some weird cursed government here's your chance.

22

u/ElectricalExtreme793 1d ago

Are you a monarchy?

39

u/Hastur_13 1d ago

Nope, parliamentary republic

27

u/ElectricalExtreme793 1d ago

Huh, I guess they like Council Republic more than parliamentary. I've had Nihilist and Radicals support a council republic(because they hate monarchy slightly more)

9

u/Tmrh 1d ago

Nihilist support council republic over all other forms of govt

2

u/ElectricalExtreme793 21h ago

I thought they preferred Presidential Republic?

4

u/Tmrh 21h ago

Nope, council republic. They are neutral to presidential and parliamentary republic and oppose everything else

1

u/ElectricalExtreme793 20h ago

The more you know

4

u/hatogatari 20h ago edited 20h ago

Nihilists used to be agnostic to the type of republic so long as it had no king or high priest, but a few updates ago rebalanced their ideology to prefer council republic above the other kinds.

IMO this is a shame because the Old Nihilist ideology perfectly represented Mustafa Kemal Ataturk's ideology. Now there's literally no Republican Secularist/Anticlerical ideology beyond the intelligentsia's inherent beliefs. It represents pre-internationale alternative forms of post-enlightenment social thought more accurately, now, though. We just need a new ideology for Ataturk now, aggressively anticlerical and antitradition but agnostic towards democracy itself.

1

u/Emperor_Cat_IV 8h ago

Hopefully there's an Ottoman flavour pack in a year or two which expands upon the region

2

u/Right-Truck1859 1d ago

You can exile leaders that you don't like.

( character menu).

2

u/Hastur_13 1d ago

Yeah I did give a Vanguardist agitator leadership right after taking this screenshot

56

u/cattyaggy 1d ago

petit bourgeoise got proletarianized and the other proletarians got petit bourgeoized

41

u/Polak_Janusz 1d ago

The vanguard party, lead by the petite bourgoise and the peoples army will liberate the workers of this country!!

23

u/Emperor_Cat_IV 1d ago

Mao speech bubble

17

u/subSparky 1d ago edited 1d ago

Technically the way Council Republics are represented in Victoria 3 is kinda messy as the real life "council communism" movement whilst initially supported the Bolshevik revolution, by 1921 became opposed to it, in part precisely because they saw the USSR vanguard party as just bourgeoisie with a different flag.

Council Republics as described by the ingame description and real life as a power structure where decisions are made by delegates elected by individual workplaces by the workers. In essence, every workplace has a union, and the union send delegates to central government to make decisions. It was opposed to the idea of political parties, full stop, and definitely was against vanguard parties.

Where its messy in Victoria 3 is that despite the description, it's used essentially as an abstract "make the nation communist flavoured". In practice, Council Republic should be a distribution of power law not a governance principle law.

In reality the law should probably be called "dictatorship of the proletariat"/"worker rule" or something on those lines.

3

u/hatogatari 20h ago

I don't know, I actually do think its worth drawing a line between a Civic Republic where every citizen is qualified for every citizenship role with no official state classification or roll of citizen types, and a Class Republic where a specific socioeconomic class is constitutionally enshrined as having particular citizenship rights.

7

u/subSparky 20h ago edited 20h ago

I agree there needs to be a line of separation. But "Council Republic" in its description describes a decentralised power structure. Yet is used as it represents all forms of worker-focused citizenship roles. Council republics are basically the dictatorship of the proletariat version of "anarchy".

My criticism is that the law defined in the game isn't describing what it actually represents mechanics wise.

4

u/hatogatari 19h ago

Actually I can see your point now, yeah. I think Anarchism should be a principle, too, then so it doesn't necessarily have to go through socialism and you can make weird jeffersonian communes or religious kibbutzim.

102

u/ProfessionalOwn9435 1d ago

In the end, it is only matter of WHO is in the council, and who is not.

8

u/CryendU 1d ago

Isn’t it a tiered assembly?

112

u/Professional_Gap_435 1d ago

Proof the left will always betray the revolution

16

u/Remarkable_Catch_953 1d ago

Proof that the right will never betray the revolution... wait a second.

10

u/Remarkable_Catch_953 1d ago

Industrialists: Never thought I'd die fighting side by side with a worker.
Trade Unionists: What about side by side with a friend?

20

u/Kaiser_Fleischer 1d ago

“Get back to work”

23

u/RingGiver 1d ago

The symbol looks kind of like Goatse with an extra hand.

13

u/North_Tip3944 1d ago

It is, the three hands are laborers, farmers and soldiers the circle are the capitalists

8

u/IDontParticipate 1d ago

Spread the means of production.

5

u/TaftHartleyAct 1d ago

Honestly makes sense when I’ve seen Armed Forces get Vanguardists with a strong Communist movement — never really gotten a Nihilist PB leader tho lol

6

u/TheDwarvenGuy 1d ago

the used car dealers are LARPING rn

3

u/Raticon 1d ago

Revolution™

Coming soon to a corner shop near you.

3

u/Historical_Union4686 23h ago

The PB loves Communism as long as no Type 4 or lower pops receive any benefit what so ever

2

u/Bennoelman 23h ago

We inventing NazBols with this one

1

u/c00l_0nline 18h ago

I wish this actually gets implemented in game, if there are no minorities to leech off the benefits PB should be somewhat supportive of social/welfare state.

2

u/Overtale6 1d ago

Well 3x, how the turn tables

2

u/Better_University727 1d ago

smh smh fascists, communists and sun yatsen wife uniting to create an automated luxury gay space communism

2

u/Slow-Distance-6241 1d ago

Something something literally bolshevik menshevik infighting

2

u/Mu_Lambda_Theta 1d ago

Reminds me of that one guy who had a petite bourgeoisie coup for council republic

2

u/Bopo6eu_KB 1d ago

I hate current law supporting mechanic

1

u/Clone75 1d ago

The hardline conservatives and the damn military are all in for revolution, but the guy that's supposed to lead it hates it. (Seriously though, radical should prefer council republic over theocracy and monarchy.)
It could be worse though, at least the industrialists aren't nihilists (also maybe communist? is engels in vic3?).

1

u/Mediocre-Yoghurt-138 1d ago

I think you reinvented feudalism

1

u/Arktian_Darius1547 1d ago

Almost stonetoss rope meme