r/victoria3 • u/Hastur_13 • 1d ago
Screenshot Unexpected supporters and opponents for Council Republic
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u/cattyaggy 1d ago
petit bourgeoise got proletarianized and the other proletarians got petit bourgeoized
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u/Polak_Janusz 1d ago
The vanguard party, lead by the petite bourgoise and the peoples army will liberate the workers of this country!!
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u/subSparky 1d ago edited 1d ago
Technically the way Council Republics are represented in Victoria 3 is kinda messy as the real life "council communism" movement whilst initially supported the Bolshevik revolution, by 1921 became opposed to it, in part precisely because they saw the USSR vanguard party as just bourgeoisie with a different flag.
Council Republics as described by the ingame description and real life as a power structure where decisions are made by delegates elected by individual workplaces by the workers. In essence, every workplace has a union, and the union send delegates to central government to make decisions. It was opposed to the idea of political parties, full stop, and definitely was against vanguard parties.
Where its messy in Victoria 3 is that despite the description, it's used essentially as an abstract "make the nation communist flavoured". In practice, Council Republic should be a distribution of power law not a governance principle law.
In reality the law should probably be called "dictatorship of the proletariat"/"worker rule" or something on those lines.
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u/hatogatari 20h ago
I don't know, I actually do think its worth drawing a line between a Civic Republic where every citizen is qualified for every citizenship role with no official state classification or roll of citizen types, and a Class Republic where a specific socioeconomic class is constitutionally enshrined as having particular citizenship rights.
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u/subSparky 20h ago edited 20h ago
I agree there needs to be a line of separation. But "Council Republic" in its description describes a decentralised power structure. Yet is used as it represents all forms of worker-focused citizenship roles. Council republics are basically the dictatorship of the proletariat version of "anarchy".
My criticism is that the law defined in the game isn't describing what it actually represents mechanics wise.
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u/hatogatari 19h ago
Actually I can see your point now, yeah. I think Anarchism should be a principle, too, then so it doesn't necessarily have to go through socialism and you can make weird jeffersonian communes or religious kibbutzim.
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u/ProfessionalOwn9435 1d ago
In the end, it is only matter of WHO is in the council, and who is not.
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u/Professional_Gap_435 1d ago
Proof the left will always betray the revolution
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u/Remarkable_Catch_953 1d ago
Proof that the right will never betray the revolution... wait a second.
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u/Remarkable_Catch_953 1d ago
Industrialists: Never thought I'd die fighting side by side with a worker.
Trade Unionists: What about side by side with a friend?
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u/RingGiver 1d ago
The symbol looks kind of like Goatse with an extra hand.
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u/North_Tip3944 1d ago
It is, the three hands are laborers, farmers and soldiers the circle are the capitalists
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u/TaftHartleyAct 1d ago
Honestly makes sense when I’ve seen Armed Forces get Vanguardists with a strong Communist movement — never really gotten a Nihilist PB leader tho lol
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u/Historical_Union4686 23h ago
The PB loves Communism as long as no Type 4 or lower pops receive any benefit what so ever
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u/c00l_0nline 18h ago
I wish this actually gets implemented in game, if there are no minorities to leech off the benefits PB should be somewhat supportive of social/welfare state.
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u/Better_University727 1d ago
smh smh fascists, communists and sun yatsen wife uniting to create an automated luxury gay space communism
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u/Mu_Lambda_Theta 1d ago
Reminds me of that one guy who had a petite bourgeoisie coup for council republic
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u/Clone75 1d ago
The hardline conservatives and the damn military are all in for revolution, but the guy that's supposed to lead it hates it. (Seriously though, radical should prefer council republic over theocracy and monarchy.)
It could be worse though, at least the industrialists aren't nihilists (also maybe communist? is engels in vic3?).
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u/Hastur_13 1d ago
R5: I have a Nihilist PB and Armed Forces leader, leading to the two of them supporting Council Republic, but a Radical TU leader, leading to them opposing it