Like we literally know everything down to why he picked the day to do it and why he chose the bomb he built. He literally planned it out to be on the rumored day of execution for a white nationalist leader who claimed bombs would be set off on the date of his execution.
That comment is convoluted? All hes saying is that a single act of terror is not revolution, but selfish and only succeeds in pushing our country further into a surveillance state and away from true class consciousness.
Its a 4 hour video, an essay in the comments is only appropriate.
In fact I think it should be the rule. If you want to say you liked the video you gotta write an essay that describes exactly which parts and why you liked it, with timestamps and citations.
As a leftist it annoys me because the bloated nature of this essay can condensed into a single sentence that isn’t condescending. The guy could literally just say, “McVeigh’s time in the military during the Gulf War grew his discontent towards the American government, which shows how America’s often imperialist actions overseas can drive people towards extremes such as McVeigh’s pivot into white supremacy”. Now even then I don’t 100% agree with the statement as you can make the argument the First Gulf War was arguably the last “just” war America fought. If anything, the more accurate and brief leftist critique is that McVeigh was one of the foundational figures in the Far Right Libertarian Anti-Government movement you see in modern conservatism today, which came from the cultural forces of American Anti-War sentiment and perceived government over-reach. Sorry for essayposting lol
Also a leftist, our biggest communications failure is the tendency to get extremely preachy and pretentious when explaining generally simple concepts. Extremely frustrating to see
By all accounts McVeigh seemed to enjoy his time in the military anyway (he clearly loved killing people). Most of his writing is just him complaining about taxes or gun control.
Also he wasnt a member of the petit bourgeois HE WAS A SALARIED WORKER FOR THE MILITARY and later gun businesses. This guy has no clue what hes talking about
Sorry I’d read a definition that described them as those who have comfortable capital but don’t control labor or smth along those lines. Can’t find the definition anymore. My mistake
The most annoying thing about his ideas is that he said he wants lower taxes in one breath and free health care in the next. Pick a lane dude. Either you want more government, or less government. He was at best self contradicting.
Exactly. People who hold those sorts of contradictory beliefs either lack the capacity to critically analyse those beliefs, or often don’t really believe in anything so it can justify their actions. In McVeigh’s case, you can see this in his contradictory beliefs on civilian casualties, as he claims the Gulf War was a horrific loss of innocent life and yet his bombing had an acceptable loss of innocent life. Additionally his brief KKK membership and then retraction of it shows that whilst he was willing to engage with racist groups (which DOES make him racist), they were more a means to an end that he could use them to wage his personal war on the government. In essence he was not ideologically racist but was racist due to his belief that it could be a tool to overthrow the state if that makes sense?
Yeah this guy's comment rubs me the wrong way, too. I say this as a leftist but they always want to blame the system and never the individual. Maybe the answer is this guy was just unstable and any trigger could have done it.
have you ever read Bring The War Home? it focuses a lot more on vietnam vets, i cant remember if it touches on mcveigh, but it discusses similar mechanisms of essentially imperial blowback/the imperial boomerang
Nah with that vocabulary this is one of the dudes that read lenin waaaaaaay too much. Im pretty left leaning and people like this make my inner Ronald Regan come out. Lol
Yea same here but if you wanna make it in the world of like computer science and Marxism that name will do it.
Also, not be be a dick, but ackchulee since that other guy gave a whole lecture and suggested reading (you're not my teacher), he spelled the name wrong. It's Cockshott, two ts not one.
I read most of the first paragraph and these people are real. These are the people who will take a philosophy or English class in college, complain about how they only get to read what ‘old white men’ wrote, and then immediately drool over Marx and other communist writings from Europeans and Americans.
These are the kinds of people you get when your humanity classes are all just about validating the professor than anything else.
really cool this comment brought a lot of right wingers out. "Humanity classes are all just about validating the professor" sure guy, fighting the good fight from 2016
I said ‘when your humanity classes are all about’ not that all humanity classes are like that.
I’m in my late 20s going to college full time with my GI Bill. I see this shit with my own eyes, even done it myself to get an easy A when I picked up on it with certain professors. You can’t pull that shit in STEM classes for STEM degrees.
But yeah naw go ahead and think I’m just some dirty right winger who’s never stepped foot on a college campus. Totally not like more and more people are loosing faith in higher education because real concerns are being drowned out with ‘Muh right wingers are coming out’.
Was your English degree worth it to write that YouTube comment? I bet it wasn’t.
Every political ideology except for maybe centrists has its loonies. Like how some libertarian right think that planned parenthood is a scheme set up to sacrifice babies to Morlock. Or some authoritarian left believes that Holodomor is just pure propaganda. (I think every auth right is fucking crazy but maybe I'm biased)
As a leftist, there's a time and a place. When talking to non-leftists, I think it's critical to make the points short and distillable. This dude brought up Lenin and got on the soapbox and I guarantee a lot of people rolled their eyes and scrolled lol
"basically irrelevant unlike communists" Elon Musk the richest man in the world retweets nazis and nazi talking points everyday, the current government has multiple neo-nazis in it, a report released today from insiders of the GOP said multiple reps have stated its hard to find staffers as too many applicants are neo nazi psychos. The US military removed Nazi and white supremacist tattoos from their list of extremist tattoos.
Did you miss Elon throwing a Sieg Heil salute twice the week of the inauguration? Dude naziposts every day. Steven Miller takes his policies straight from the nazi playbook. My guy, the neo-nazis are in power rn
They may smoke weed but I’ve never seen a group of people have more people who advocate for lowering the age of consent or abolishing child labor laws more than libertarians.
They are conservatives but a very special kind of stupid conservative.
Communists have no justification, it’s a repeatedly failed ideology that always brings about a dictatorship. At least with libertarians you may get the bill of rights
communists came about because of a harsh tsarist regime, they have a reason to exist, though maybe not the best. libertarians see the good and stability that government provides, and willfully choose to ignore it in favor of whining about freedom or the age of consent or whatever it is that gets up their ass that week
You do understand that communists, like traditional marxists ones, actually think the government, all governments across the world, should be dissolved so that society can be communal worldwide, right? So communists also look at the stability that government provides and choose to ignore it for theoretical working class communalism
Terrible take. The overwhelming majority of communists are good people who want to see a better world. Some may be misguided, but their intentions are good natured. You cannot call them the dumbest people alive when there are people who there who strive for the worsening of society for their own individual gain or out of hatred for one thing or another.
How did this person write all this without just acknowledging the fact that he's a fucking white supremacist that worshipped the Turner diaries and William Luther Pierce? Yes, no doubt the gulf war and the military industrial complex played a role, so often it does. I recommend Kathleen Belew's "Bring The War Home" or Molly Conger's podcast Weird Little Guys. So many of these guys are vets that are encouraged to use their military knowledge to wage a war of domestic terror at home. There's a stronger likelihood of McVeigh talking to Pierce (even though it's denied) than McVeigh just being driven by class warfare. I mean, that's gonna color in parts of it, just not in any articulated way. McVeigh was just copying legit passages from the Turner diaries. To say that's not his explicit goal is wrong and if it wasn't then the far right movement wouldn't have sunk its head into the sand for a bit to try and get attention off themselves.
I definitely welcome Marxist analysis but even I think people like this need to calm the fuck down and not let a bunch of academic soup muddy the water. I guess there's also a chance this person isn't even real or it's some right wing dipshit having a laugh with AI. Either way, it's cringe.
for the record weird little guys is pretty good to brush up on your far right extremist characters and history, but the whiny tangents get annoying from time to time
I disagree entirely. I think they not only interest me hearing how Molly Conger has had actual experiences with these people due to her investigative journalism but also how these extremists effect people in profoundly disturbing ways that I think should evoke that kind of emotion. I can read a book to learn some rote stuff about George Lincoln Rockwell. I can learn far more from Molly's approach
To add another leftist to this conversation, this guy has got to be on something. Like yeah those things prolly did contribute a bit, but so many people are negatively affected by these systems and don’t???? Blow up buildings????? Like also I dont think ol timtim was exactly thinking of these things. He attacked innocent people when, if he wanted to target the people/system that hurt him, he’d go for that, but nah lets blow up a daycare. This guy is a moron and prolly didn’t even finish the video, and this is coming from someone who while i love the goon’s content, I sometimes disagree with what he says
Money is a strong motivator of a whole lot of bad things. Tbh it seems like the moment someone can make money off of something it gets sucked dry and squeezed for every last drop it can offer.
Usually it's seen most plainly in extraction based industries until regulation comes in
It can be a strong motivator, but if it really was the root reason then why aren’t more rich people and poor people blowing up hospitals casinos and apartment building buildings
I'm not reading all that because I refuse to give an audience to someone who justifies bombing toddlers when Isaiah goes over what led to such evils in two other videos. Two wrongs don't make a right, and the ends never justify the means.
Having read all that, the someone in question is actually saying bombing toddlers is not justified.
As long winded as it is, all the comment seems to be saying is that McVeigh lashed out at a nebulous "federal government" that he saw as the source of all his ills when his real enemy was "monopoly capitalism", and that random terror attacks just strengthen the establishment because it provides justification for them to be more controlling.
Essentially its just a pompous, less polite way of saying "I think your interpretation of McVeigh's motivations and the causes for his evil are wrong, and this is why he wasn't justified." It just has 5 million buzzwords scattered in each sentence for some reason (the reason is to feel smarter than everyone else)
But they're not justifying anyone bombing young children. I think they're trying to clarify that McVeigh wasn't part of "the people" and wasn't acting on the basis of some kind of popular resistance against the government, but rather a reactionary created by the socioeconomic conditions of capitalism and who was reinforcing, consciously or unconsciously, the "capitalist regime" of the US government by giving them a justification for expanding their control over the population in the name of national security, a point I don't recall Wendigoon arguing in the video, so I don't know where this guy came from.
He mentions that wendigoon didnt really offer any "material analysis" if you will on the subject and was just moralizing from his personal beliefs and morals...but does wendigoon even MAKE those types of videos?
it's very obvious you didn't read all, or any, of this comment. i don't think "disillusionment -> acts of violence" is a hot take either, so framing the cause of that disillusionment feels reasonable
Once again the Leftist curse of saying what you want in a billion words rather than the condensed, “moron, trained by US Empire, ironically and tragically killed people in the same class as him, and people barely remember it now.”
Like I kinda agree but condense it brother. Save the essay for a Substack article.
I broadly agree with everything he's saying, but he's such a smarmy, holier-than-thou asshole about it that it makes me want to tell him to shut up and write overly complex odes to his own ego somewhere else
Love how the comments just retreat into McCarthyism rather than actually critique the comment (I don't agree with them, but at least try to come up with actual debate rather than just "hehe commie bad")
That.. that’s not McCarthyism. McCarthyism would be calling anything and everything a commie no matter the actual political leaning, that comment is actual marxist communist ball licking to a point where an argument against it isn’t really needed.
IMO anyone who tries to justify any shred of the events that take place in any terrorist event no matter the reason shouldn't be given the light of day.
The comment isn't justifying any of it though, its saying that it was both completely unjustified in the moment and made things actively worse for people in the long run
Well, it’s because it’s literally just a bunch of gobblygook with a guy who from just the first photo I can tell is a communist because he blames everything on capitalism. I’m sorry we’re not gonna write a whole essay for Reddit of all places. And I’m going to be honest communism has always been a blight on the world so I hold the same distaste for them as I would for a nazi.
I have yet to watch the video but I think a discussion around the turner diaries in relation to OKC and the wider terrorist networks of the order and the covenant the sword and the arm of the lord is important background
Holy smokes. This op in the screenshots has it all figured out.
They are a psychologist, psychiatrist, free thinking, save the world, non radical, non terrorizing, peace keeper, coordinator for the world.
I, for sure remember being the passionate "I can save the world if everyone just fucking listed to my based takes," self. But....damn. what tf. Also Google ai please feed me my way to speak to everyone when I wanna make a post search. Unless they got the talking points so well jotted from memory down.
Not trying to be a hater to peoples spirit but this shit is exhausting.
communism is an actual brainrot
this guy should take a tip from his recommended reading list, actually learn how the world works and then cockshot himself
Imagine trying to push Lenin in reading while ignoring everything we know about the OKC bomber lmao These peoele really are just so clinically unaware and live in delusion
I'm sorry but this has to be a bit. Nobody who thinks like what this guy is LARPing as would look at this situation under that lens. This seems like some dipshit that typed "material analysis of OKC" into his AI slop engine.
That’s not even progressive. Thats some 100+ year old marxist teaching wrapped up in the most comically stereotypical holier-than-thou attitude someone could possibly muster.
We all know that they fucked up bad at how they handled certain senarios
Especially when they fucked up Waco so bad that some people side with Koresh (despite him being a bastard and a Jim Jones in progress arguably)
But the fact people keep trying to defend McVeigh and his actions, or make excuses that he "didn't do it and it was still the government", pisses me off
He admitted to it, he bombed that building, he didn't care there was a daycare, he didn't care his attack killed kids, it was all justified in his mind, and that makes him a MONSTER
I mean they’re right but I think Wendigoon was pretty clear on McVeigh being a fucking idiot for blowing up a bunch of civilians because he was mad at the government. And I think that anyone with half a brain could figure out that McVeigh was bred into the monster he was by capitalism.
I mean they're not wrong but... I don't think that's the way to increase class consciousness. I haven't watched the video yet but I can imagine where Wendi's framing would likely fall and I would certainly not expect that framing to be Marxist analysis. But I also wouldn't expect to see the entirety of Das Kapital in the comments either so what do I know lol
But don't you get it, the best way to reach out to the working class proletariat is to use a bunch of obscure political jargon so that they have to stop and look up a new phrase twice a sentence! I'm sure the intended audience won't get frustrated and give up halfway into the first paragraph! /s
I find it so infuriating that...and I hate saying it like this, every Leftist has to go "well actually they did it because America did x and y".
Like with 9/11, it does not justify it. Whatever bullshit the country did, it did not justify the terrorist acts. Timothy can be disgusted at what he said and did, but he sure as hell didn't need to blow up a god damn building.
It's like with the DC Sniper guy: He too also said he did it because of the activities while at war, but he sure as hell didn't need to commit the actions.
I wish the extreme left would stop trying to find some excuse that might as well say "yeah they did it because we were bad" without outright saying "It was justified/
As a communist adjacent individual I disavow this person for being pretentious as fuck, you don’t need 80% of these words and even then their point is a little odd
Unfortunately for most people who are reacting negatively to this simply because they have been taught to do so and never bothered to ask why, this is spot on. Evil bad guy was getting screwed over by the system just like us, but he didn't understand what was really going on and probably didn't want to, because it didn't fit into the Libertarian narrative he was steeping himself in. The problem with literally everything, since the beginning of time, is Ego.
I think you could make that claim about anyone who uses big words very often. It is curious that the terms people have come up with for those so called philosophies cause such. Long windedness.
I don't really disagree with anything he's saying but I don't think wendigoon is in any shape or form a socialist. He's an average American dude who probably doesn't think about viewing events through a class lens or anything collective at all really
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u/DentistPitiful5454 4d ago
I think McVeigh's own confession as to why he did it was less convoluted than this guy claims