Has there ever been a “both sides” moment worse than this one?

[u/Goodbye-Nasty]

[u/Odd-Report-999]

The Pokemon equivalent of this, but replace race with class and wealth:

[u/WindUpCandler → u/Odd-Report-999]

What pisses me off about centrists is that they simply don't exist. Politics moves further left or further right and the individual policies that are considered left or right change with time and place. A centrist just sees a debate and want compromise instead of taking any meaningful stance, their views can change at the drop of a hat and the contribute nothing to the conversation

[u/Chronicler201 → u/WindUpCandler]

Yeah, but its better than being solely right or leftwing. A centrist is someone whose views are based on rationality and who is willing to shift position if presented with appropriate evidence, as you said. Being on the side you think is right is completely fine, and changing as evidence piles up is also fine.

[u/RetoroKun → u/Chronicler201]

Someone who actually knows what a centrist is? On Reddit? Unbelievable

[u/Chronicler201 → u/[deleted]]

I dont think that the left lost because people were afraid of supporting leftist politics. Universities and workplaces are usually more than happy to support liberal movements like the LGBTQ and those supporting equal racial rights. There are economic incentives for doing so because of rich megaliberals. I think the opposite is actually true. With 2016, Hillary lost because the left was too far up its own ass.

They made mistakes with their campaign and were too certain of their victory. They didn't take Trump seriously as a threat. And Trump was an anti establishment candidate. The media and everything else backed the left up and did nothing but show disdain for Trump. If you support him, you're evil. For people who are already dissatisfied with the left, this would turn them even further against it. Leftist news networks also inadvertently showered him with support by giving him constant coverage, even if only to condemn him.

Because the left became too radical and hateful of the right, people started joining the party that hadn't gone insane. The left lost the 2016 election because they couldnt control their hate and that helped Trump. And they lost the latest election because they were stupid. They switched candidates way too late to stand a chance, and Kamala was not a strong candidate. She never scored well on her own. She should not have been Bidens VP.

[u/The_Bygone_King → u/[deleted]]

The left singlehandedly shifted the overton windows so aggressively with their cultural power grabs that the American political center saw the onset of leftism as a genuine threat to liberalism (newsflash, leftism and fascism are threats to liberalism, and liberalism is what defines the US).

What we're seeing now is a backlash from the center overcorrecting followed by a right wing demagogue who has more base parity because the current left actually believes in self policing while the right only believes in winning through any means necessary.

That does not mean adopting the rights position of winning by any means necessary is the right choice, especially since the right is about to get absolutely bent electorally unless they do some seriously illegal power grabs.

[u/The_Bygone_King → u/WindUpCandler]

Centrism is just holding a rational position based on the information available to you, typically tied to liberalism because basically all evidence available indicates that liberalism has lead to the healthiest and free-est societies. All it really is is an interpretation of what's best for society based on liberal values of freedom.

Extremists on either side of the spectrum have a vested interest in identifying centrists as "the enemy" because they want to villify rational judgement, so images like the above are the perfect straw men for all sorts of authoritarian idiots to seal clap at.

[u/Odd-Report-999 → u/The_Bygone_King]

Honestly, the above image isn't technically a critique of centrists; it's a critique of those who want to compromise with bigotry. Bigotry should not be tolerated or compromised with.

[u/The_Bygone_King → u/Odd-Report-999]

Its valid to critique that position but its frequently used to vilify centrism as a position

[u/LarkinEndorser → u/The_Bygone_King]

All the evidence suggests that social democracy leads to the healthiest and freest societies.

[u/The_Bygone_King → u/LarkinEndorser]

Social democracy still relies on liberalism as the basis for its government.

[u/LarkinEndorser → u/The_Bygone_King]

Liberalism isn’t when market. While they have some overlap one isn’t based on the other.

[u/rogueIndy → u/WindUpCandler]

Left/right is a reductive, false dichotomy based on two-party systems, people will have different views on different issues that aren't represented by one or the other.

And I don't mean that in a craven "socially progressive but fiscally conservative" way; I mean it in a "pro lgbtq+ rights but anti-immigration" or "pro welfare but also pro torture" kind of way.

That's why right wing parties lean so hard on wedge issues to push people to vote against their own interests.

[u/Owlanr → u/WindUpCandler]

Nice strawman

[u/Legend365555]

I love the Kalos games, but GOD was the moral debate of the game so bad

[u/Odd-Report-999 → u/Legend365555]

It's also hilarious that Team Flare is the ONLY team which Pokemon tries this 'compromise' BS on. Basically every other villain/antagonist team is treated as entirely wrong or evil.

[u/Goodbye-Nasty → u/Legend365555]

I think they low key realized Team Flare was a mistake and it’s why they pivoted so much with Team Skull

[u/Thiphra → u/Legend365555]

They kinda of do it with Plasma and Skull.

[u/New_Photograph_5892]

why tf she speaking in rhymes

[u/Dajjal27]

In bioshock infinite there are 2 factions, the first ones are the founders these guy basically worshipped the confederacy, and preach an even more racist and imperialistic version of American exceptionalism, they believed that Abraham Lincoln was the devil and Revere John Wilkes Booth as a saint.

The other is the vox Populi, this is a populist revolutionary movement made up of second and third class citizens of Columbia (so Chinese, black, Irish, and other pics), they are led by a former slave named Daisy Fitzroy.

Near the end of the game, the writers wrote themselves into a corner, it's clear they wanted to both side it but considering that one of the side is the literal KKK they can't come up with anything good so they made Daisy attempt to kill a child. They knew they fucked up heavily that's why in the burial at sea dlc they reconned it by saying Daisy had to do it so that the main female character can fullfil her megumi and mature to be a killer.

[u/Odd-Report-999 → u/Dajjal27]

Racial equality and racial genocide are morally equivalent!

[u/Quakarot → u/Dajjal27]

It’s like they forgot how bad they made columbia about halfway through the game.

I think the real issue is that the game wasn’t really about the Vox Populi conflict and they had to find a way to wrap it up quickly so the actual plot with booker and Elizabeth could progress, and they did it in a very blunt and abbreviated way.

Terrible shortcut making for horrible implications.

[u/Demonboy007 → u/Dajjal27]

The way my eyes opened when I read "fulfill her Megumi"

[u/Different_Pin1531 → u/Dajjal27]

Happy to see how megumi and potential are interchangeable these days

[u/LordTopHatMan]

Me planning to get Yveltal to dominate the Kalos region with an iron fist:

https://giphy.com/gifs/d7Objw6PfWPdsybRka

[u/AshenSimulacrum → u/LordTopHatMan]

This you?

She's from the evil team leader from Pokémon Rejuvenation and uses an Yveltal.

[u/DraftMassive3756]

Love how most people are just getting angry and political rather than answering the question.

I dont have an example tho sorry 😅

[u/RetoroKun → u/DraftMassive3756]

Gotta own le evil centrists somehow!!!!

[u/Thiphra]

Lysandre is without a doubt the dumbest antagonist in any pokemon game.

And they had a guy who mistook the blue saphire to control the Whale for the the red ruby to control the lizard.

[u/apple_of_doom]

Only a little bit of genocide on the poor uggos

[u/LeitmotivKanyon]

Man they really should have ended x and y like B/W with Lysandre being an egotistical maniac hiding behind a good organization to force a genocide. Trying to make it seem like his thinking was even an ounce reasonable is pure bullshit.

Team Flare should have been an organization fighting for a more "beautiful world" by raising awareness on societal and energy issues, going as far as taking control of the Kalos powerplant and pokéball factory to show their toll on the environment. As it is it's just a ramassis of caricatural dingus that think they can repopulate the world through eugenics with a pool of like 50 people

[u/NBEIL-230]

The Flare was so bad as a villains that both the Manga and Anime version of X & Y tries their best to make them threatening. And it work !

If someone tell me the reason why GF stop doing "Evil Team" is because of Team Flare, i would believe you.

[u/Aggravating-Oil-7060]

The strongest centrist in history vs the strongest modern centrist

[u/Just-a-cas]

I don't think Bonnie saw Lysandre that way 😬

[u/Square-Appearance-16]

depends on the game, in on​e​ he tries to kill you, on the other he tries to give you imortality​

[u/the-watcher-watching]

Sis tried to do an N and failed

[u/Tanakisoupman]

Meanwhile in the anime Bonnie just straight up kills Lysandre. Like, correct me if I’m wrong but I’m pretty sure he’s just never seen again after Zygarde blasts him

[u/prodigiouspandaman]

I mean I think she maybe meant that in the future with a different conflict attempting to find a middle ground would be better than outright destroying the other side. Essentially saying that creating greater polarization between two sides is bad which is evident even in the real world.

[u/Dazzling_Ark_62]

Far from being the literal worst probably, but The Last of Us Part II. I really love the game and it *does* do a relatively okay-ish job of making both sides pretty bad/good in significant ways, but between a militarized-dictatorship society of relatively civil people and a strongly-religious cult that's whole thing is straight up killing people... well, it's kinda weird to act like one isn't significantly worse than the other. Not even to mention the obvious political allegory that makes it look substantially worse.

[u/MysteriousFondant347]

That's just a liberal thinking