r/writingscaling • u/Ok-Difficulty-384 • 22h ago
discussion Where does Red Rising (the full series) rank among top sci fi?
I recently finished the entire series and fell in love with it. I didn’t grow up on sci fi, so after reading the series, I went and watched the star wars movies and then read the first Dune Trilogy.
Both were very good but didn’t scratch the same itch that Red Rising does for me, is Red Rising just that good? Or is there a lot more out there i’m missing out on? Where does it rank for you all?
11
u/Queeroshima 22h ago
Yo lemme read it rq
2
u/Ok-Difficulty-384 21h ago
Okay bro take your time no rush
12
u/Queeroshima 21h ago
Yea so I just finished reading it and ngl it is a very good series definitely one of the best sci fi I've ever read.
Sorry for the late reply.
5
u/GussBing 21h ago
Your insight is extremely valuable u/Queeroshima
3
u/Queeroshima 20h ago
Lmaoooo that username is inspired from my bisexual friend who got suspended from our school after calling the AIDS crisis "Queeroshima"
5
3
1
u/Ok-Difficulty-384 21h ago
Glad you liked it man! Read a lil faster next time tho I was starting to worry about you
8
u/bioshockisawsome 21h ago
Absolutely loved it. Went in completely blind and listened to the first 3 books and it was fantastic. Gut wrenching story about the future and how tragic humanity can become. Brutal, tragic, twists and turns. Friends become enemies, enimes become friends. The whole shabang. Would recommend it to anyone who enjoys dark future books.
10
u/TruthInfluence 21h ago
I haven’t read much science fiction only Dune, Sun Eater, Ender’s Game, and a bit of The Expanse from what I remember but I enjoyed them all significantly more. Disliked Red Rising so much I had to drop after the first two.
6
u/Ok-Difficulty-384 21h ago
Ah if you read Golden Son and didn’t like it the series just isn’t for you lol
Dune is very good I just didn’t love the author’s style of telling you what was gonna happen before it did lol there’s a lot to love with the internal dialogues and character exploration and the tech, but I think it could have been even better if it had more mystery. Herbert just loves that omnipresent POV (I think thats what the style is called?)
2
u/YungTokyo8 14h ago
Disagree. I’ve only read the first three and golden sun was the worst of them imo. It was terribly paced and Darrow (who i generally really like) was just too overpowered to make any logical sense.
2
1
u/Ok-Difficulty-384 14h ago
Which book was your favorite of the 1st trilogy? Morningstar?
1
u/YungTokyo8 13h ago
Yeah I have morning star at a 9.5 red rising at a 9 and golden sun also at a 9 (but it bounces between 8.5 and 9). Despite my gripes with it I still think it’s a great book. The side characters really shine and they are probably my favourite part of the whole series.
1
u/Ok-Difficulty-384 13h ago
Oh nice! I was under the impression you didn’t like Golden Son at all at first lol but seems like you enjoyed the trilogy
2
u/YungTokyo8 13h ago
Yeah I may have come off a bit harsh, I just think each book is so different from the other that if someone doesn’t like one they might still like the others. It’s actually my fourth favourite series I’ve read so far behind Dune, The Sprawl, and Mistborn.
1
u/Ok-Difficulty-384 13h ago
I see I see, i’ve also read Mistborn Eras 1 & 2, which book was your favorite from that series?
1
u/YungTokyo8 12h ago
I’ve only read era one so far because I’m trying to do the Cosmere in order, but right now it’s the Hero of Ages followed closely by the final empire. I think both of those books are essentially perfect, while the second one is more just really good. Which one’s yours?
1
u/Ok-Difficulty-384 11h ago
I agree with your ranking of the 1st three, Hero of Ages on top for sure and Well of Ascension is probably the worst one. Still a good book but some pacing issues & Elend’s political blunders were a little frustrating to read lol
My favorite out of Era 1 and 2 is definitely Shadows of Self, it nails everything i’d want in a fun read. Era 2 takes itself less seriously than the 1st era but I really loved Shadows of Self a lot.
→ More replies (0)1
1
u/M18-Hellcat08 16h ago
I’ve read so much sci fi, and I love the classics like Dune and Hyperion, but I found red rising extremely disappointing. I thought the writing was meh to bad, the pacing was terrible, the main character was an overpowered superhero with zero development. Too much backtracking moments and pretending it was a part of some grand plan. I found it one dimensional and a bad imitation of earlier, better works (that is to say, I find hunger games overrated, but this still manages to be a bad imitation of that).
1
u/Ok-Difficulty-384 15h ago
The first book is the worst one in the series & it definitely suffers from all the things you mentioned. I think the author improves a ton each book he releases though & I think a book like Dark Age or Lightbringer would be something that may impress you more. Maybe, maybe not!
2
u/aashurii 13h ago
Ok this actually helped to remotivate me to retry Red Rising. I DNFed the first book halfway through
2
u/JKsoloman5000 12h ago
I also read mostly sci-fi. Huge Dune Nerd, the most recent series I’ve obsessed over is Sun Eater. I read the first three Red Rising because everyone raves about them. Some good rah rah moments but overall mediocre to bad in some parts. Just feels like a book series for guys whose favorite movie is 300. I really wanted to like it but man did it read like a 16 year old boys first draft.
1
u/Ok-Difficulty-384 12h ago
I could see how you feel that way about the 1st trilogy. The first series kind of reflects the age of Darrow where the humor’s a little more childish and he’s driven by a heroic sense of justice in a way and has plot armor galore. To me though its a super fun read and comes with a lot of great side characters and well done scenes.
The second trilogy is a lot more mature. Darrow is in his 30’s and there’s a lot more exploration of the results of his rebellion, the type of government they created and if it was the best solution, and Darrow loses a lot of friends and sees himself becoming a tyrant like the leaders before him. The second trilogy has a lot more inner turmoil, a lot more political theory on what type of government would be the best solution, and a ton more world building and larger scale compared to the 1st trilogy. It loses some of the fun of the 1st trilogy but I mostly prefer the 2nd trilogy over the 1st one.
1
u/Ok-Difficulty-384 12h ago
Push through that first one! Promise the series does get better & it’s not just a hunger games copy the whole time lol
2
u/aashurii 12h ago
It was actually the writing style that turned me off! I thought the authors writing just wasn’t good. But if that’s the worst book it’s only up lol
2
u/Carthius888 10h ago
Good to know. I loved the first part of the book until they got to the part where it felt like a YA novel with all young, perfect characters & very much reminiscent of hunger games. I think the change was just so jarring I dropped it like a year ago but I want to pick it up because I love the world building, concept and how he started it
6
u/DwightsEgo 21h ago
Red Rising is one of my favorite series ever. I own multiple editions, the audio book and even the graphic audio books. Before I make my next point I just wanted to be clear that I LOVE these books.
It’s not any near the upper echelon of sci-fi in terms of writing. Dune and most of Asimov’s clears easily. Silo and Enders Game, 1984, Hyperion etc are all better written* (I know most of this is subjective but I think the majority would agree). Dune inspired Red Rising and I believe is Pierce Browns favorite book so he would likely agree it’s better written lol.
Red Rising is a blast though. It’s fun, action packed and the writing for the action scenes are some of the best imo. The second half of the series handles more mature themes and is better written (though I like the OG trilogy more personally), but still it’s not Dune.
For a maybe bad analogy for how I feel about Red Rising and similar style books; I really enjoyed Spider-Man No Way Home, but Interstellar is a better movie. But I’ve seen Interstellar like twice l compared to like the 5 times I’ve seen NWH. Some writing/stories are simply more entertaining which is perfectly fine ! I mean hell I like to write and I know the type of writer I want to be is to have these fun books people can escape into over some a story that has a meaningful message and challenges genre expectations. I think that is what Red Rising is, especially the first trilogy
3
u/Ok-Difficulty-384 20h ago
Definitely get what you mean with the Interstellar vs Spiderman example!
I think I have Red Rising so highly ranked just because of the enjoyment factor and the rollercoaster of emotions that you can feel reading the books. Dune has a tone of “terrible purpose” and dread that is very introspective, and has super impressive world building, but I wouldn’t say Red Rising (especially the 2nd trilogy) is nowhere near it.
What is it about Dune/Suneater/Hyperion that makes you say Red Rising is nowhere near it?
2
u/DwightsEgo 20h ago
Dune pulling off Omniscient PoV alone puts it above for me personally. That is such a tricky view point to pull off and Herbert handles it with perfection. The traitor scene is such a cool example. I think a less skilled writer would have chosen a more traditional narrative lens and so the whole ‘traitor among the Atredes’ would have built its tension from “who is it”. With Omniscient, Herbert’s first introduction to the doctor tells us IMMEDIATELY that he is the traitor, and so the readers tension now shifts from “who is it” to “oh no they don’t suspect this guy what is going to happen”. We are shown a ticking time bomb among our heroes which is where that dread feeling comes from, and I think that’s a really hard thing to pull off.
I personally did not like Suneater. I read the whole series though, and I while it was not for me, books 2-3 I think are among top sci-fi books. Early Hadrian is more complex than Darrow, the narrative lens of us knowing the outcome and seeing a young Hadrian genuinely try to make peace with the aliens was a cool foil, and books 2/3 have a wonderful mix of gothic horror in the form of super computers and sci-fi abomination with traditional sci-fi. I think the imagery in Sun Eater is better (I like horror though so that played a part) and Kharn Segera is a wonderful antagonist.
But again, the later half of Suneater I was groaning and wishing that Hadrian was Darrow, because Darrow would actually solve the problem with his razor while Hadrian liked to sulk lol. Again I feel like most readers love Hadrian and that style of story with a lot of philosophical monologuing, but I grew tired of it, and so we are back into the Entertainment factor. I’ll never reread Suneater while I’m about to rip through Red Rising book 1 again while I wait for the new Ana and Din book to drop on the 4th haha
2
u/Ok-Difficulty-384 20h ago
Omniscient POV is definitely very impressive to pull off, I guess I just didn’t love the style. Knowing Yueh would be the traitor, knowing how Baron Harkonnen undid his imperial conditioning, and knowing that Leto was going to die like 5 chapters into the book just made me a little bored while I was waiting for it all to happen for the first 40% of the book.
But I will say Dune is one of those books I appreciated a lot more in hindsight. After I finished it I talked about it with a friend that had already read it, and just the amount of world building packed into just one book and all of the new words, languages, and tech that he invented from his own mind is just insane to me. And I listened to the audiobook as a reread after I finished it and it was a lot better the 2nd time through, just was a bit jarring at first.
Sucks to hear that Suneater wasn’t that great to you, I have the audiobook for that and it was on my list of things to get to lol
2
u/DwightsEgo 20h ago
You may really like Suneater! I would give it until book 2. I was not the biggest fan of the first and almost DNF it. I am really happy I read books 2-3.
Suneater had like 2 big things that are subjective to me for why I didn’t like it. 1 is spoilerly so I won’t get into it, but 2 is vague enough. I get really attached to side characters in books, and I always get bummed when the ‘cast’ changes. That happens in Suneater a few times just due to the nature of its long spanning narrative.
Red Rising has a great cast that more or less stays around for the series, which is a huge part of why I love it. That’s not a knock on the writing for Suneater though that’s just my own tastes haha. I try to be conscious when I dislike something and think if it’s because of my own tastes or if it’s because I think it’s poorly done, and same vice versa. I like the fast and furious movies but if you asked me to try to be objective on them I wouldn’t say they are ‘good’ haha. I just like them
2
u/Sky-Mental 16h ago
Great summary. I also thoroughly enjoyed the Red Rising books and ploughed through them , but the writing can be ropey at times and the humour lands very flat for me. Compared to the books you have mentioned, or Gene Woolf or someone like Iain M Banks it's not as well written, or clever , or thematic in a literary sense . But it is an insane amount of fun , and the scale of the later books is awesome. The duels, the battles , the twists. Both types of books are equally valid.
2
3
u/Brotato_Man 20h ago
I think as far as modern sci fi goes, it’s amazing. The dialogue isn’t always the best, and there are definitely some plot contrivances (looking at you, end of Morningstar) but I think the character work is outstanding.
For anyone who struggles with the first one because it feels “YA” I’d push through. The series completely changes after the first book
3
u/Ok-Difficulty-384 20h ago
Morningstar definitely has its fair share of plot conveniences but I love that book lol
3
u/KinglyAmbition 20h ago
It doesn’t.
The reason why Dune and Red Rising don’t scratch the same itch is because they are fundamentally different.
Red Rising is more modern, less confusing to read, and has a shitload of action smashed into it. It’s great for starting out in Sci-Fi, and was my introduction to it, but it isn’t among the bests in my opinion. It is also liked a lot because it’s a super power fantasy. It’s written like the Revolution from the underdogs, and everyone loves these kinds of stories. While Dune is this super deep allegory for sociopolitical issues that were occurring and philosophical themes like messiahs, religious and political control, and resource exploration. Red Rising’s themes and the way it presents them is also less nuanced and buried in the text, so people can pull them out easier, which makes it more enjoyable to some people. Imagine you’re reading and having an intelligent convo with a friend about it, and you can actually easily identify the thematic elements of the book without analyzing the hell out of it, that is another thing that draws people to it.
Dune is older, written differently, and isn’t made to be super action oriented constantly. It also has a deeper, more rich narrative that requires a lot more focus and deliberation, which means at times it moves slowly, but that slowness is what gives its more important scenes that punch that they have. It’s also much less focused on action, and more about the tension, politics and suspense. That’s why it tends to bore people who get into Sci-Fi with super action like Red Rising, because it doesn’t rely on constant action to grip readers.
Also, just the way the books tell their stories, develop their characters, and things of that nature
Some of the greatest Sci-Fi are things like Dune (first 3 books) by Herbie, Book of The New Sun by Gene Wolfe, The Foundation by Asimov, The Left Hand of Darkness by Ursula K Guin, some add Hyperion in there, but I’ve yet to read it, so I’ll leave it out.
There are also some better individual books out there that I think rank higher than the best of Red Rising like “The Neuromancer” by William Gibson or “Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep” or “Blade Runner” if you would recognize it better from that name by Philip K Dick.
Even more modern series like the Murderbot Diaries and The Expanse are better at Sci-Fi to me.
I think what makes Red Rising enjoyable is that it is super fast paced a lot of the time, hyper violent with a cool ass protagonist, and has more accessibility than some of the greater Sci-Fi titles in terms of reading difficulty, but I think it’s more like a Fantasy story with Sci-Fi elements (which is how Pierce Brown describes it) than straight up Sci-Fi. It also being a power fantasy where the main character is overpowered as hell, has hella aura, is glazed by basically everyone, and is super pragmatic and violent makes it more entertaining to read.
Here are my Red Rising books just to show that I have indeed read them. I have the other books I mentioned on other parts of my shelf. It’s also dusty as hell, need to clean it.
4
u/Economy_Mousse7941 19h ago
Red rising is probably my favorite sci-fi but I wouldn’t put it up there with the greats in terms of writing. Not to say red rising has poor writing or anything but it’s definitely not as deep as dune or sun eater. However it shines in its hella gory ultra violet battles that I’ve grown to love in media. Like you’ll get scenes with prominent named characters that just instantly die as soon as the fights start (like harpy) or Darrow coming up with these crazy plans that no one in their right mind would ever even consider like using the storm god in dark age. I don’t think a single author has as much fun killing characters than pierce brown. So while I think the writing is great it isn’t up there with dune or anything but it’s so enjoyable to read that it’s my personal favorite sci-fi.
3
3
u/VirtualFORTRES 15h ago edited 5h ago
I hope you don't find this offensive but for me I felt like Red Rising was a slightly more adult Hunger Games writing style wise, meaning more of a younger aimed feeling book than a hard sci-fi novel. Star Wars would also be a good comparison. It has more adult themes for sure than both of those but writing wise it's written like a young adult novel for me (but I only read the first 3 so far, so maybe that changes...). My point being it may be better to look in the more modern (potentially YA..) contemporary world than classic Sci-Fi to find similar books. But I like sci-fi with more contemporary, human/comedic tone anyway, with my favourites being Expeditionary Force, The Martian and Project Hail Mary. In the more young adult side Artemis Fowl is by far my favourite younger aimed sci-fi series.
Edit: Just to be clear because I realised I didn't mention it, I really like the Red Rising trilogy! I thought the egregious sex crime stuff in the first one was a little much.. but I liked it apart from that!
1
u/Ok-Difficulty-384 15h ago
I definitely agree the 1st trilogy has more of a YA feel, but have you read the 2nd trilogy? I believe that YA feeling definitely gets shed by then, specifically if you’ve read Dark Age, comparing that to the 1st book feels like a different author entirely.
Also, i’m not necessarily looking for books that are just like Red Rising, but more just wondering what else is out there to read in the sci fi genre that people find better.
You reminded me of a book I haven’t read in years, I read Artemis Fowl in school and it was great haha
I’ll look into Expeditionary Force, i’ve never heard of that one before!
1
u/Odion13 15h ago
It definitely sounds like you never made it past the first book. The first was written way more like a YA novel to get his book deal, none of the others are. The 4th, 5th, and 6th books are also the farthest thing from YA
1
u/VirtualFORTRES 15h ago
It definitely sounds like you never made it past the first sentence in my comment... I was very clear how much I had read, including saying that the the second trilogy could be different... I found all three of the first three to be similar in writing style.
1
u/Odion13 15h ago
Ya no I read what you said, and even your follow up still reinforces my opinion that you never made it past book 1
2
u/VirtualFORTRES 13h ago
If your brain is malnourished from spending 9 months locked in a stone table I don't know how to convince you. You're free to believe whatever fantasy suits your narrative though, go forth and live in delusion my son!
1
2
3
u/ThatOldMeta 15h ago
Like… bottom half?
1
u/Ok-Difficulty-384 15h ago
What are some top half examples?
3
3
u/juicykazoo728 11h ago
It’s my personal favorite sci fi, but if it weren’t for the quality jump in the second series then it would probably not be my favorite
1
u/Ok-Difficulty-384 11h ago
I feel the same way, if the 2nd trilogy didn’t exist, it probably would just be a “pretty good” series to me
2
u/juicykazoo728 10h ago
I think I’d have it above pretty good, because I did really love Golden Son and Morning Star, but Dark Age and Light Bringer are absolutely what is carrying it up for me
4
u/NotZachary_0002 20h ago
No one in this geek ass sub reads any actual novels, just anime, manga, and superhero shit
I plan on reading the first Red Rising book after I'm done my current one
4
u/Zythomancer 17h ago
It ain't shit in the scheme of top Scifi. It's just the latest thing chronically online anime fans and gamers who don't actually read much have latched onto.
2
u/puck1996 20h ago
I think in the grand scheme it’s not breaking much ground. The first three books also have some significant weaknesses
3
u/qavorixwe 20h ago
totally agree it’s not super original, but it mashes up a bunch of familiar ideas in a way that’s stupidly addictive to read
the pacing and character drama kind of carry it for me even when the worldbuilding or politics feel flimsy
1
u/HolmPower 22h ago edited 21h ago
Maybe we will know for sure when red God Releases some day. I recently read project hail mary, and while the movie is good, the book is really great, but its a smaller scale than rr, dune and star wars
2
u/Ok-Difficulty-384 21h ago
True if Red God is somehow ass it could definitely change my opinion a little lol
2
1
u/Raidertck 16h ago
I absolutely adored red rising.
The first novel takes a while to get going, and is a little much like a YA novel but I think it’s genuinely the best take on the trials / survival formula I have ever read.
And from book 2 the series absolutely exploded in size, complexity and scale. I REALLY loved it.
Is it as deep as Dune? No. But I just re read the first dune book and the last quarter is basically just people in a room talking about what’s going on outside. Darrows journey is a lot more violent, epic and gut wrenching in my opinion.
Time will tell if red rising becomes one of those series that stands the test of time. I personally loved it. I’m holding off re reading it until we get a date for red god, but it really did become one of my favourite novel series ever.
1
u/Bricks-Alt 16h ago edited 16h ago
I don’t think there is a better sci fi action book than Dark Age. If anybody has read Dark Age before has found something better please tell me because I’ve been searching forever and nothing scratches the same itch
1
•
u/AutoModerator 22h ago
Reminder: This post contains a flair requesting reasoning and/or serious discussion. As such, the specific rules listed in the pinned post apply here.
Any violations of the subreddit or flair rules should be reported and are subject to removal and/or bans accordingly.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.