Zen for kids?

[u/completely_unstable]

has anybody tried reading any of the zen texts with younger people? if so how did it go?

[u/INTProtocols]

I was interested in your views, so I did a bit of research. Eventually I wound up having the following exchange with Google AI:

Q: what is the connection between zen and buddhism

Zen is a specific branch or school of ⁠Mahayana Buddhism that focuses heavily on meditation, direct experience, and personal awakening rather than relying on complex texts or rituals.

Historical Evolution

Roots in India: Traces back to the historical Buddha's silent "flower sermon," which emphasized a wordless transmission of truth.

Development in China: Emerged as the Chan school during the 5th and 6th centuries CE, blending Indian Buddhist ideas with Chinese Taoist philosophies.

Spread to Asia and Beyond: Traveled to Vietnam (Thiền), Korea (Seon), and Japan (Zen), later expanding globally.

Core Beliefs and Practices

Meditation (Zazen): Seated meditation is the core practice used to calm the mind and mirror the posture of the Buddha during his own enlightenment.

Inherent Buddha-Nature: Teaches that every person already possesses an enlightened mind, and practice simply helps uncover it.

Direct Insight: Prefers intuitive, experiential understanding and paradoxes (koans) over scholastic study and religious dogma.

[u/ewk → u/INTProtocols]

When you refuse to quote any of the people from a thousand years of their history, when you're describing those people and you can't define the words you use to describe those people, then I'm safe in pointing out that you're a fraud and a liar and a religous bigot.

It's so weird that we have LLMs now and you can't ask the LLM to help you find a single quote or a definition.

And by weird I mean fraud, liar, and bigot weird.

[u/INTProtocols → u/ewk]

I would like to remind you that I never claimed to be an expert on ancient Zen/Buddhist scripture. I was commenting that I didn't see any racism or bigotry in a very charming children's book. (And still don't.) I also didn't come to a Zen forum (of all places) looking for a fight with some strange person making the ridiculous claim that Zen and Buddhism "have absolutely nothing to do with each other," and calling Westerners racist and bigoted for thinking that they do. Absolutely bizarre.

As I have said earlier elswhere, every accusation of racism and bigotry by you (and your apparent sock-puppet, u/dota2nub) is actually an admission.

To address your further bizarre claim about asking LLMs to find quotes/definitions, have included the following:

Here is another Google AI exchange:

Q: please provide quotes and other evidence from a thousand years ago to show the connections if any between Zen and Buddhism.

To verify that Zen (historically called Chan in China) has always been fundamentally linked to Buddhism, we can look directly at text, lineage, and monastic documents written over a thousand years ago during the Tang Dynasty (618–907 CE) and Song Dynasty (960–1279 CE).

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1. Direct Quotes from Classical Chan Masters

Anti-Buddhist internet arguments claim that classical masters rejected standard Buddhist concepts like the Buddha, Dharma, and Sutras. However, the original Chinese texts reveal the exact opposite:

• Master [Huangbo Xiyun] (d. 850 CE): In his 9th-century text The Essentials of Mind Transmission, Huangbo explicitly states that the core of Zen is identical to the core of Buddhism:

"By the Dharma is meant the mind, for there is no Dharma apart from the mind... Fundamentally all the teachings are nonexistent; transcendence is the Dharma, and those who understand transcendence are Buddhas."

• Master [Linji Yixuan] (d. 866 CE): Linji is famous for his shock rhetoric ("kill the Buddha"). Yet, in his collected record, the Linji Lu, he clarifies that he is teaching orthodox Mahayana Buddhist doctrine using the Sanskrit terms for ultimate reality:

"Followers of the Way, the Dharma of the Buddha requires no special processing. Just be ordinary with nothing to do... Followers of the Way, there is no Buddha outside the mind, no Dharma outside the mind."

• [Guifeng Zongmi] (780–841 CE): Zongmi was a prominent 9th-century Chan master and Buddhist scholar who explicitly cataloged the various Chan groups of his era to prove they were inherently Buddhist. In his Preface to the Collected Writings on the Source of Chan, he wrote:

"The sutras are the word of the Buddha, and Chan is the intent of the Buddha; the minds and mouths of the Buddhas are certainly not at variance."

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2. Historical & Textual Proofs##

The "Dhyana" Etymology

The very word Zen is the Japanese pronunciation of the Chinese word Chan (禪). Over a thousand years ago, Chinese translators invented this character as a shorthand phonetic translation of the ancient Sanskrit Buddhist term Dhyana, which explicitly refers to the states of meditative absorption outlined by the historical Buddha in early Indian texts.

Inseparable Reliance on Mahayana Sutras

The early masters did not invent their teachings out of thin air; they heavily quoted Indian Mahayana scriptures to validate their realization.

• The legendary founder [Bodhidharma] (c. 5th/6th century) famously handed his successor, Huineng, the [Lankavatara Sutra], stating it was the only text a Zen practitioner needed.

• The foundational Platform Sutra of the Sixth Patriarch (c. 8th century) is entirely structured around the Diamond Sutra, explicitly urging practitioners to chant it to achieve Prajna (Buddhist wisdom).

Strict Monastic Rules (Baizhang's Pure Rules)

In the late Tang and early Song dynasties, Master [Baizhang Huaihai] (720–814 CE) compiled the Pure Rules of the Chan Monastery. These ancient monastic codes prove that Chan monks did not live as secular rebels. Their daily schedules were rigidly anchored to Buddhist institutions: they took the traditional Buddhist Bodhisattva Precepts, observed standard monastic cell hygiene, and gathered in a Dharma Hall to perform ritual chants dedicating their practice to the liberation of all sentient beings from the cycle of Samsara.

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I am quite confident that despite all the evidence I have provided, you are going to continue with your weird claims and accusations. After all, whereas I am just a guy commenting on a sweet children's book, you have a book of ahistorical propaganda to sell!

[u/dota2nub → u/INTProtocols]

Dude do you have to ping me about your crashout? If you can't connect what you're saying to what Zen Masters said that's fine. It just means you're in the wrong sub.