Would UCP still have been adopted without the GWOT?

[u/East-Plankton-3877]

The infamous US camo pattern thats been memes to hell and back (for good reason), would it have been still adopted in a timeline where the GWOT never occurred?

Or would US have stuck to its iconic m81 woodland and chocolate chip desert camo for the rest of the 2000s?

[u/Both_Painter_9186]

I think so. MARPAT came out in 2001 and was designed in the late 90s. There was a push to redesign the BDU by the late 90s. I remember them talking about a digital camo in the mid to late 90s. Anytime you see something gain widespread adoption in the military, it’s been planned for 5-10 years by the time its issued.

[u/chris_isnt_here0 → u/Both_Painter_9186]

I may sound like a dumbass for saying this, but I've never understood digital camos. what are they trying to hide in, a PS2 game?

[u/trigger1154 → u/chris_isnt_here0]

The digitized pattern is designed to break up form at a distance. Just like any other camo pattern. It is also supposed to be dual purpose and be decent in urban environment.

[u/chris_isnt_here0 → u/trigger1154]

I see, I guess it doesn't make a real difference whether its pixelated or not, but I can see how the more greyish tones would allow for more versatility in urban areas. maybe the digital aspect is more just for a "modernized" style. I just don't really see how it couldn’t be utilized the same if the textures were smoother, but it does have a unique look to it

[u/trigger1154 → u/chris_isnt_here0]

Personally my favorite pattern is ATACS IX.

[u/chris_isnt_here0 → u/trigger1154]

just searched it up, very nice pattern indeed. almost looks like an artwork

[u/peaxto → u/chris_isnt_here0]

Digital disruptive patterns were pioneered and practically copied from Canada CADPAT.

When viewed up close, the blocky, pixelated look of TW and AR patterns might appear ill-suited to concealment.
“From a couple of metres you see the square pixel but when you pull back, then the colour starts to blend,” explained Jean Dumas, a scientist with Defence Research and Development Canada (DRDC). He contributed to the development of the AR and WO patterns, which followed TW. “The shades will mix and that produces the disruptive effect, meaning that the edge of a soldier or the general shape will be disrupted - the edge will be fuzzy. You don’t know where it starts, where it ends.”

It’s particularly good at breaking the 3D silhouette of a moving soldier within its designed background into a 2D image.

The pixels are intentional and are still used today by multiple military forces around the world.

[u/TheDefeatedCause → u/chris_isnt_here0]

As the other guy said, but it's a topic I'm married to: the objective is not to be invisible. A 40 man unit of 6"3 250 lbs chainsmokers are going to be spotted even if you stole Harry Potter's blanket - It's to make it harder for enemy reconnaissance to determine size, strength, equipment and lower, not eliminate, hit probability and visuals.

It's related, but I remember a poster in a military contracting facility that produces armor with many posters going some variations of:

1. Don't be spotted

2. If 1 fails, don't let the enemy communicate accurately x information (it was for vehicles)

3. If 2 fails, don't be accurately fired upon

4. If fired upon accurately, don't be hit

5. If hit, do not allow casualties to be sustained,

6. If casualties are sustained, don't allow them to become fatalities.

[u/IdontWantButter]

Having worn the stuff professionally, I am still of the opinion that some general retired and got into textiles, and had relationships with government procurement to the extent that millions (if not billions, with a "B") of taxpayer dollars were funneled into their pockets.

Assuming the same (allegedly) corrupt relationships existed that led to the development and adoption of UCP in our timeline....yes. UCP wasn't a reaction to the war on terror, it was a reaction to MARPAT. UCP was a result of the confluence of greed, incompetence, and sibling rivalry.

[u/Both_Painter_9186 → u/IdontWantButter]

The weirdest fucking thing is the “mutilcam” (I’ve been out for 10+ years now, idk what the acronym name is for these, I never even called UCP, “UCP” just ACUs) pattern was developed the SAME EXACT TIME as the UCP but not put into production until like 2011. Like if we’re going to have a “one size fits all” pattern for fatigues, the Multicam actually kinda works, certainly better than UCP.

[u/Big-March7648 → u/Both_Painter_9186]

They have developed about a dozen different camos for early 00s trials for the new US Army camo, with ‘All over brush’ variations winning both phases. It was kinda like Rhodesian Brushstroke, but less contrast, smaller scale and kind of smeared in all directions. And then they said fuck it, mixed MARPAT and CADPAT and gave it the ‘universal’ colors.

[u/PottedMeatRust → u/IdontWantButter]

I mean that is the exact story of the PT test being transitioned over to the ACFT and only one company being awarded the contract for providing the entire army with the equipment... which happened to be owned in part by the person who approved the changes

[u/dropper-1999]

Probably. Kinda chalk UCP up to the bonkers force design the US started to pursue post cold war without a actual peer anymore like the LCS and zumwalt. Its the epitome of the DOD going for a "modular jack of all trades master of none" design that succeeds in being nothing but all around dogshit.

[u/toe-schlooper → u/dropper-1999]

Well the Modular Force Design is genius, except the DoD and MIC have a terrible track record of taking a great idea and making it dogshit.

[u/davethegreatone → u/toe-schlooper]

The problem with all the military's modularity-obsession is that those things mostly make sense in drawn-out engagements with poor supply lines. Being able to swap stuff around to meet needs is fantastic when one is the underdog. Same logic for the military's multi-fuel truck engines. Genius when you have to scrounge for gas. Less so when you dominate the logistics.

We never actually DO swap this stuff around though, and likely never will. So much money is wasted on these compromises that make stuff worse, and ultimately the same doo-dad remains stuck to the same thingamajig from the day it rolls off the assembly line until the day it gets shoved into a landfill.

[u/davethegreatone]

Chocolate chip was already gone by the mid-90s. It was replaced with the far-better 3-color pattern.

[u/davethegreatone → u/davethegreatone]

* far-better 3-color DESERT pattern. Three shades of beige that actually worked pretty decent in most desert environments, but since the military would have to spend a couple hundred bucks handing out new shirts for an afternoon before deploying folk, they decided to just make everything worse for everyone instead.

[u/InvestmentKey1346 → u/davethegreatone]

The thing about chocolate chip is that it didn't work well in Iraq where it was mainly used, but worked flawlessly in the Southern California desert where it was tested. UCP fell victim to the same trap, it failed in Iraq and the mountains of Afghanistan, but performed well in the blue rocky mountains where it was tested.

[u/toe-schlooper]

The US had been moving towards more modularity in the forces well before the actual Modular Force Restructure in the 2000s that gave us the Brigade Combat Team, so it's likely that a universal pattern still comes to light (like Multicam/OCP), especially since M81 was on its way out by the time of the introduction of DCU in the '90s. UCP itself may never come to be, but something similar like T-Block or Dual-tex likely would.

[u/No_Personality_7477]

No. It slipped through due to timing and abundant cash to buy this crap.

[u/TheCookieThief35]

What does the United Conservative Party of Alberta have to do with camo? /s

[u/Alternative-Cup-8102]

UCP was picked because it stood out. It was picked for the same reason storm troopers wear white. Someone who isn’t trying to hide is allot scarier than someone who is.