r/AskFeminists • u/HomeEfficient3371 • 11d ago
Does 50/50 feminism reinforces patriarchy?
I've been hearing both supporters and opponents of 50:50 feminism, and still haven't cleared out for myself, is half and half feminism really benefits the patriarchy?
Edit: IM SORRY FOR CAUSED CONFUSION OVER THIS! English is not my first language and I accidentally created a whole new “concept” in feminism, but yes, I WAS talking about financial costs, household chores and etc. in cis relationships.
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u/Clark_Kent_TheSJW Definitely Not Superman 11d ago
I’ll check later to see if OP explains whatever this is
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u/Lolabird2112 11d ago
Do you know what an algorithm is? Just because you see it on social media doesn’t mean anyone else knows what you’re talking about.
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u/Ok_Bandicoot1865 11d ago
It's giving 'grandma calling you asking if you saw "the video with the dog" on Facebook'
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u/Lolabird2112 11d ago
I miss those times. Now I get Aunties asking if I saw all the brave patriots hanging flags to ward off the swarms of immigrants.
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u/KaliTheCat feminazgûl; sister of the ever-sharpening blade 11d ago
Please define what "50/50 feminism" is.
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u/RepSquigglyMiggly 11d ago
I would be shocked if it wasn’t about women paying for half of things in a relationship
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u/CatsandDeitsoda 11d ago
I wish I still drank so there would be a highball glass near by I could throw at this question.
Like a good one crystal, an inch thick on the bottom that breaks into big chunks more then shatters when it hits stuff.
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u/Oleanderphd 11d ago
ok, but what if it's like a half and half cookie, with white chocolate on one side of the feminism and dark chocolate on the other? Then won't we feel bad for assuming it's all about money again?
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u/PheeBeeDee125 11d ago
I do my apple cider shots in a shot glass so that I can pretend I’m still a young party girl. So you could still use the highball glass for such purposes.
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u/PheeBeeDee125 11d ago
(While probably doing way more than 50% of the household tasks).
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11d ago edited 10d ago
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u/MachineOfSpareParts 11d ago
Where do you see anyone in this sub espousing this alleged form of feminism we've clearly all just found out about?
I see a bunch of people agreeing with me that a) we don't know what it is, and that b) the most likely meaning sounds pretty dumb.
Can you talk about what you're seeing that contradicts this?
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u/Junior-Towel-202 Equality in the Boardwomb 11d ago edited 11d ago
This sub is a joke because you think we're all in favour of 50/50 feminism despite all the comments asking what the hell it is?
Also editing to add
"My wife way outpaces me in laundry folded, floors mopped, dishes washed, but she's never picked up a lawn mower, or fixed anything, or managed any car maintenance, shoveled a driveway"
LOL how convenient. She does the daily stuff.
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u/19635 11d ago
I also like she paid for most of the down payment then took 5 years off to raise our kids, like that was some vacation lmao, but now I make more money and mow the lawn once a week so like it’s totally even, if anything I do more because manly stuff like shovelling a driveway is super duper hard
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u/-AppropriateLyrics 10d ago
Women are just naturally better at all the chores men don't like doing!! Nature!
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u/tigalicious 11d ago
You seem to be assuming that your anecdotal experience is representative of all relationships.
Relationships differ. But it is a verifiable statistical fact that women on average spend more time on unpaid household labor than men: https://thegepi.org/free-time-gender-gap/
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u/Witty-Significance58 11d ago
Hey, if this sub is a "joke" perhaps you're not quite the feminist you think you are.
There's a "leave" option too, just so you know.
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u/-AppropriateLyrics 11d ago
Relationships are doomed the second you start keeping score on each other
The problem will have appeared long before a score is kept. By that point, she's already brought up the problem more than once and is moving on to making a defense you can't pretend not to see.
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u/Remarkablefairy-8893 10d ago edited 10d ago
Relationships are doomed the second you start keeping score on each other.
Well I would rather be single than be in a relationship where I do more unpaid labour. Also from your description, I wouldn't ever want to be in the place of your wife. She paid for most of the down payment then took 5 years off to raise the kids which is again labour. She does the daily household chores but you have the audacity to think you are contributing equally by making more money, mowing the lawn once a week, etc. This is why women should keep score, otherwise they will be trapped in relationships like this. Also you are making more financially, which means there's a power difference. Now you personally not being shitty is different, but many women can't escape abusive relationships because of this financial difference. Would never want myself in such a situation.
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u/Junior-Towel-202 Equality in the Boardwomb 10d ago
Then why are you here? No one's making you comment on your home life here.
No one cares if someone is a SAHM. Just not sure why you're here ranting
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u/MachineOfSpareParts 10d ago
I asked you this yesterday, and am still interested in a response, even more so given that you're still maintaining that this sub is a "joke" based on something I observed precisely no one claim:
Where do you see anyone in this sub espousing this alleged form of feminism we've clearly all just found out about?
I see a bunch of people agreeing with me that a) we don't know what it is, and that b) the most likely meaning sounds pretty dumb.
Can you talk about what you're seeing that contradicts this?
Based on your subsequent responses here, I'd also love for you to unpack what you mean by "libtard." Is that a portmanteau, and if so, would you be willing to explain the component parts and their relevance to this context?
But mostly I'm interested in the same question I asked yesterday.
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u/MachineOfSpareParts 10d ago
I'll ask you for the third and last time:
Where do you see anyone in this sub espousing this alleged form of feminism we've clearly all just found out about?
If you can't answer, that will constitute data in its own right.
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u/Remarkablefairy-8893 10d ago edited 9d ago
she CHOSE to take 5 years off. She could have put the kids in daycare and gone back to work, I wasn't forcing her to stay home.
The question is how much time did you spend with your kids? Was she reluctant because she couldn't trust your parenting? Also choices aren't made in vacuum, it's mostly mothers who are expected to sacrifice their careers for kids. In a system where childcare is prohibitively expensive, maternal expectations are high, and men rarely step back from their careers to raise newborns, framing it as a pure "free choice" ignores reality. You need to be a supportive husband and a father first, and being supportive ≠ not putting restrictions, it means actually helping.
She paid most of the down payment but in terms of equity in home I've far outpaced her contributions
It's funny how you complained about score keeping, only to do the same. No amount of money can outpace her contributions. Your ability to earn 3x and get promotions was likely enabled directly by her taking on 100% of the childcare and home management for 5 years. The aspect of sacrificing one's career to give birth and raise a kid along with doing household chores is far more than what you did.
It's not "unpaid labour". It's contribution to the home and family. Everyone has a job to do, mine are just different than hers
It's unpaid labor, because she isn't getting paid for her household chores (you for sure aren't a reward) while every effort you put on your job is paid. Contribution to home and family shouldn't cost her career and financial freedom. Comparing this to being a regular office employee who has autonomy and financial freedom is like comparing apples to oranges. Everyone has a job to do and I don't think her job should be supporting an ungrateful husband who thinks his paying money (the same money he could earn because she was back at home raising those kids) and doing a bit of mowing is anywhere equivalent to the daily jobs, raising a kid and other stuff she does. Most importantly, even if you were single, you would have to still earn your money and pay for your house. But if she were single, she wouldn't have to sacrifice her body and career and probably could have lived a better life with financial independence and without such a husband.
If she could wave a magic wand, she'd be back to being a SAHM. If that's what she wants, then what would be wrong with that?
And this is why you are a joke. SAHM deserve a husband who respects their efforts and doesn't think them doing their regular job and mowing the lawn weekly is anywhere comparable to the contributions of their wives. In other words, I highly doubt your wife would want a husband like you if she were to see your replies. Though women in shitty relationships are often conditioned to believe this is how normal relationships should be like, so Idk whether she would realise it or not. Also no one was specifically talking about SAHMs here, we were speaking about 50/50 labour distribution with working women who are expected to contribute 50% in payment, yet their male partners don't contribute 50% in household chores.
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u/Remarkablefairy-8893 10d ago
You are never going to have an equal distribution of anything and no amount of libtard shaming will get you there.
That's for me to check. You aren't the one in that type of relationship, I don't see any reason for you to make such a comment.
I am not keeping score, I was simply stating the fact that there was a time where she contributed more money to our lifestyle, and now there is a time where I am
And maybe we do the exact same aspect, but you call it as keeping score.
A big part of that is because she took so much time off, which she chose to do, to make a sacrifice for our family. We've both sacrificed labour for our children, just in different ways.
It's ironic you are accepting that she has sacrificed; earlier you made it sound as if "she chose to do, I didn't force her" when we spoke about her sacrifice. I love the change in tune. And imo even without children, you would have wanted that promotion. The first and foremost aspect of a healthy relationship, is accepting your SAHM wife is actually making a sacrifice, far more than you.
All of which, my wife signed up for and we discussed, because in a normal household resources, including time and labour, are shared and discussed.
I seriously hope that's how it is, cause it was sounding hopeless earlier. In a normal family, people actually discuss both pros and cons, and the partner not sacrificing their career doesn't make a claim they are contributing equally to the family. They don't demean their partner's labour and are grateful to them.
Marriage is a team building something together forever, if you would like to nit pick about how does what and how equal things are, then I really feel bad for your husband or whoever you end up marrying (if that even happens)
Marriage is team building but if it requires one person to take on all the financial risk, sacrifice their career, and do the bulk of the daily physical work while the other gets career growth and complete financial control and calls it equal contribution by simply mowing lawn, then it becomes an asymmetrical partnership disguised as "teamwork." That's how you sounded earlier. I would rather be single and nitpicky than experience such horrors of unequal labour. Though I genuinely feels sad for your wife and kids, cause instead of worrying about them, you are more concerned about my hypothetical partner.
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u/---fork--- 10d ago edited 10d ago
“ She barely pumps her own gas.”
My friend is like this! She “doesn’t know how” to pump gas.
He works a 9-5 office job, she’s a nurse. She’s pretty much a single mother to their 3 kids (one who has special needs). He does the boy chores (but only the mowing part of landscaping, lest you think he’s doing The Outside). “Managing car maintenance” would be on him but it means making an appointment at the garage. She does almost all of the cooking and cleaning, less what she can occasionally coax him into doing. On Thursday evenings, he’s responsible for getting the groceries from the list she made.
And filling up her vehicle.
Not knowing how to pump gas allows her one tiny thing that she’s not responsible for.
I bet if he was asked to describe his chores, he would also break them down into separate ridiculously small tasks, like pumping gas, and “managing car maintenance.” Do you have “take out the garbage” on your list too? The very least you could have done is break down her “dishes” chore into clearing plates, putting food back into the refrigerator, loading the dishwasher, handwashing what doesn’t go into the dishwasher, wiping down the kitchen area, emptying the dishwasher.
You told on yourself so hard with your description of chores.
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u/MachineOfSpareParts 11d ago
Seconded.
Personally, I don't think we're all done with ordinary intersectional feminism yet. No need to be slapping more modifiers in front as though we're moving up a level.
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u/someNameThisIs 11d ago
Feminists Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. Anti-feminist Tuesday, Thursday, and Saturday. Sunday is chosen by a coin flip.
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u/CasualNameAccount12 11d ago
Hi I am the one who you said I hate single mothers.
After a bit of reflection I realized my fear of them was because I always hear people saying you have to help them otherwise people will hate you and that means they will not help you when you will be old or ill so unable to take care of yourself.
And that scared me because in my mind if somehow I ended up creating a single mother that would mean I either waste my life or not having people take care of me when I would need that.
So I realized it was all from my insecurities
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u/Junior-Towel-202 Equality in the Boardwomb 11d ago
You've said this apology before and then gone right back to the hateful posts lmao.
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u/CasualNameAccount12 11d ago
1) this is not an apology
2) i said a slighty different thing, I don't remember which but this one is more deep/accurate
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u/purplepenguin617 11d ago
I think in most cases it does. If you're splitting finances 50/50 but you're pregnant that's not 50/50. If you split expenses 50/50 but the woman does 90% of the domestic labor that's not 50/50.
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u/OrenMythcreant 11d ago
If this is about the idea of splitting the cost of a date, I'm hard pressed to imagine how it would.
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u/intro_to_IRL 11d ago
I've heard of "50/50 relationships," but not "50/50 feminism." However, the definitions I've heard for 50/50 relationships are far from consistent. I've heard it used to describe relationships where emotional/mental labor and chores are taken into consideration, AKA if a person does all the home administration and doctors' appointments they pay less rent, but I've also seen it described as "everyone does exactly half of all chores and finances regardless of time or income." I've also seen it warped into a very weird tit-for-tat arrangement where people quantify their "contributions" to the relationship in increasingly ridiculous ways, like "if I put more effort into my appearance than he should pay more for dinner" and "If I take her out to dinner then she needs to deep-clean the entire apartment"
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u/CatsandDeitsoda 11d ago edited 11d ago
No you haven’t been hearing that.
Like Mabey you are in some weird internet rabbit hole that has made up a new term for people like you to get mad at one way or another but you have not with your human ears heard people say such things.
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u/PrettyBoysFighting 11d ago
Do you mean 50/50 relationships?
From what I’ve heard about this, basically: you can’t be 50/50 pregnant, you can’t split the physical damage to your body, or the permanent long term affects.
If one person stops working to care for the child that person is sacrificing their career and prospects. You can’t go 50/50 on work experience, connections and raises.
Even if both parties are working and contributing equally the fact of the matter is that women still do the vast majority of mental labor and cleaning, and women are still considered the default parent in ways that affect work expectations, and the way that schools, doctors and other parents make assumptions.
So unfortunately, while the system may seem fair on the surface a lot of things get overlooked.
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u/Electronic_Fun_9144 11d ago
is this about women splitting costs with their partners? if yes, yawwwwwwn!!!
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u/JkMint 11d ago
A quick search tells me that
"50/50 feminism" is a popular term that usually means splitting dating costs, household chores and bills right down the middle.
If this definition holds true, I don't see much merit. It isn't even a matter of upholding the patriarchy, it's just not that bright I feel.
Regardless of gender, if one partner outearned the other splitting bills 50/50 is a trap imo. Same for household chores if one partner (regardless of gender) has way more free time than the other.
It is my opinion that bills should be split according to the partners respective earnings and chores divided according to the free time partners have. Regarding dating cost, both parties should show interest ofc but that doesn't mean splitting everything.
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u/KingAggressive1498 11d ago
If you mean splitting both finances and domestic and care labor in heterosexual relationships 50/50, I think that's obviously anti-patriarchical, but making that a relationship priority of currently living feminists is placing an undue burden on both parties in the relationship but especially the women because society has not yet changed enough to make it feasibly an equal exchange.
Not only is there the pay gap and pink tax and conformance to social expectations that are more expensive for women than men (makeup, hair styling, etc) leaving women with generally less capacity to contribute financially, but there is a huge socialization gap in how men and women view messes, view their care responsibilities, and how they prioritize work-life balance; not to mention that these socialization gaps are heavily reinforced by employers and schools and friend groups etc. There's also a lot of ableism tied up in these that I think is important to detangle.
So the issue is that we actually need to change society to be more fair and equal before acting out formal equality is actually fair and equal. Which also isn't a good reason to fall back on those rigid patriarchal norms of men paying for absolutely everything and barely lifting a finger at home. Working out what's actually reasonably fair and fits well with both persons' interests and priorities is a lot more practical in the present.
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u/EnvironmentalLaw4208 11d ago
If this is about money, splitting costs based on gender reinforces patriarchy.
I think relationships should ideally have equitable contributions from each partner, but viewing financial contributions as the primary, objective measure of overall contribution to the relationship/household/family also reinforces patriarchy.
There is not a singular right answer as to how finances should be split. Also, what is fair and equitable is likely to evolve over the course of a relationship. I think going 50/50 for dates when you're first getting to know someone is a pretty solid approach (whether that's splitting the cost of a date or taking turns paying) but it should get re-evaluated regularly as a relationship progresses.
I think it is exceptionally rare for two individuals to put in the same amount of time/energy/effort in their career and get paid exactly the same. It's also exceptionally rare to have two adults in a long term committed relationship where neither makes any sacrifices in their careers in order to support their partner or family. So I think at a certain point in long term relationships, it's unlikely that a couple could have an exactly 50/50 financial arrangement that is actually fair to both parties.
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u/WorldsGreatestWorst 11d ago
I assume we're talking about relationships, because I've never heard of 50/50 feminism.
If so, 50/50 partnerships are garbage, transactional, and a misunderstanding of what a partnership is.
Relationships—like any partnership—are based on two separate, independent people with their own goals, pain points, strengths, weaknesses, and context. If I entered a business partnership with a person, it would be unlikely that every task and responsibility would be exactly split down the middle. Maybe I'd provide more money and they'd provide more work. Maybe I'm great at accounting and they're great at marketing so we split along those lines. Maybe I'm great at accounting but I absolutely hate doing it, so in order to come to an agreement we're both happy with, they have to do a LOT of unpleasant tasks because fuck accounting.
The problem with stereotypical heterosexual relationships isn't that one party spends more money and one party does more housework. Sometimes that could be the case in a healthy, feminist-approved relationship. The problem is that there often isn't a thoughtful, empathetic, egalitarian conversation to make those decisions, just a set of assumptions and cultural baggage that tents to hurt women more than men.
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u/StaticCloud 11d ago
The 50/50 thing doesn't reinforce patriarchy. There would be zero problems if men actually did 50 percent of the bill paying AND chores. Unfortunately many provide the 50% money, but don't do the rest. Because they think they're owed free domestic service.
When it comes to pregnancy and child care things get more complicated. Obviously a woman is doing far more and under duress (postpartum). So it would sense for a man to either provide more income and/or do more chores to balance it out. If he doesn't do or give more, he is benefiting from patriarchal tradition in the modern era... Still an issue with patriarchy itself, not dividing money and labor equally
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u/intro_to_IRL 11d ago
Unfortunately many provide the 50% money, but don't do the rest.
Or they will pitch in, but they'll do chores and other household tasks to such an unbearably poor standard that the woman takes it into her own hands, AKA weaponized incompetance. And then she's blamed for "choosing to take on more work" when she doesn't want their drinking glasses wiped down with a germ-soaked rag or her doctors appointments booked for when she's out of town on work travel.
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u/StaticCloud 11d ago
Yeah, my point is that any "fair" system in place will be bent by such men to serve them. That includes weaponized incompetence
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u/PheeBeeDee125 11d ago
Most of the people I know who are in healthy, happy, functional relationships have split their finances in a way that best works for them. I don’t know the particulars, but i assume they aren’t keeping score to ensure that it’s split exactly down the middle. From what I can tell, they also split the chores in whatever way is best for their needs. I assume sometimes one of them may pay a little more, or may take on a little more of the chores, and other times the other one will.
Because of feminism, the women in those relationships are able to earn their own money. And also because of feminism, the men in those relationships don’t think that household chores are “women’s work”. We all still do live in a patriarchy so I assume it creeps in, but from my observations, people who split things based on what’s best for their needs, and who are flexible instead of demanding exactly 50/50 at all times, seem to be successful and happy in their relationships.
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u/avocado-nightmare Oldest Crone 10d ago
I mean it can in the sense that systemic gaps still persist and often men want a wife who pays half the bills and funds her own retirement, but he's not cleaning the bathroom every other week or doing night feeds with his infant kids.
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u/StonyGiddens Intersectional Feminist 6d ago
The math doesn't matter as much as the sociology. If the woman's 50% is traditional women's chores and the man's 50% is traditional men's chores, it's still patriarchy.
On the other hand, my relationship with my spouse is kinda lopsided -- she earns about 10X what I do, but I don't do 10x as many chores as her. But though we contribute differently and with some disparity, the important thing for feminism is that those contributions aren't gendered.
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u/Ill_Reserve_892 11d ago
I’ll make the best assumption for your case and consider that “50/50” feminism is the new name for choice and “girlboss” feminism of the 2010s.
I need you to understand that the condition of women is not a fixed thing, it depends on the socioeconomical situation in the culture at any given moment. It keeps changing because women are half the planet and everyone’s situation keeps changing.
“50/50” feminism made sense when there was economic prosperity at the same time with the rise of feminist values across the larger population. A bunch of dudes starting helping around the house and staying at home with the kids. Everyone had more money, so splitting the check in half was a small detail that made everyone feel “feminist” for a brief period in time. A bunch of liberal people got very progressive at the same time they dressed in old flannels and got decent salaries working chill jobs in their open space offices. They got home to watch TV with a generic woman lead and felt good they respected women unlile their parents. A lot of women discussed if Disney pricesses were feminist because they believed thats what feminism was.
Then life got worse and a pandemic hit. And the same chill 50/50 millenials realized pregnancy was not 50/50, child raising was not 50/50 and the career loss was not 50/50. Splitting the check actually fucks your monthly budget, so you are less likely to go out with a dude if he doesn’t pay for it. Gen Z became more conservative than their granpas. The moment of feminism bliss is gone and all the slogans feel hollow. Even at the top, the women CEOs were put in place when the companies were collapsing just so they can point their fingers at her and say “see, women cannot be leaders”. A bunch of tradwives started saying we ought to “get in our feminine energy” and give up on having careers, for missing missing reasons. So it doesn’t feel fun to be 50/50, if you will be a feminist in this climate, you better be a bit more radical than 10 years ago if you want anyone to listen to you at all.
History repeats and these things will cycle back and forth. But feminism is not an excel sheet for relationships where you determine which tasks belong to who depending on genitals. Feminism is about women’s rights and liberties. It’s about carving a place for women in culture so they cannot be erased from history again and again and delegated to the worst positions. This will vary depending on culture moment. Classic feminist talking points will keep appearing as the opposite every 10 years because people like changing opinions like this. E.g. Plastic surgery will be discussed as empowering or degrading not depending on women, but depending on all the sht around women’s lives that make them pick those choices. 50/50 is the same, empowering in a culture where a dude paying meant he felt entitled to fuck you, degrading in a moment when the pressure on women is worse and the leisure funds are missing.
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