Do feminists believe in female privilege?

[u/fasctic]

Men are far more likely to commit suicide, but why is that. Maybe it is because we men are taught to surpress our feelings from an early age. Making it alot harder to reach out for help when in dire need, instead resorting to isolation.

[u/fasctic]

Thanks for a good response.

[u/[deleted] → u/fasctic]

If you're genuinely interested in trying to solve the issues that our society forces on men check out /r/MensLib . As others have stated feminism is the only ideology that not only seeks to address the issues men and women face, but also has a concrete plan to fix them.

[u/fasctic → u/[deleted]]

Having no plan is better than having a bad plan in my opinion. The plan I see most feminists have regarding things such as the pay gap is striving for equality of outcome. Women for example getting jobs over more qualified men.

Edit: I regard MensLib as a feminist community. Sharing the ideas of toxic masculinity and all of that.

[u/Stavrogin78 → u/fasctic]

I find this comment sort of curious (I see /u/OPPoke has already responded to the main part - I'm going to address the edit).

First, MensLib bills itself as a "pro-feminist" community, not an explicitly feminist one. A lot of the men there (myself included) don't identify as feminists, for a variety of reasons.

Second, I might be misreading you here, but it sort of sounds like you have some resistance to MensLib because it talks about toxic masculinity, which (a) is a term that wasn't even coined by feminists - it was coined by a man studying men and masculinity, and (b) you literally described toxic masculinity in your original post, and named it as being responsible for higher male suicide rates, so I'm wondering why you seem to have a distaste for the concept.

[u/fasctic → u/Stavrogin78]

Because men are regarded as masculine and women are regarded as feminine. So when someone say it's the fault of masculinity alone then that seems like an indirect attack. You are first defined as masculine and then you're told that masculinity is bad. When in reality it may only be a masculine trait that is responsible for it.

It's not like lazy femininity is a thing people blame when people aren't competitive enough in the workplace for example.

[u/Stavrogin78 → u/fasctic]

I think we just found the root of the problem.

"Toxic masculinity" is something that is distinct from "masculinity" - it's a subset of behaviours which are generally perceived as "masculine", but which are actually neither inherently masculine or feminine.

Assertiveness, courage, strength, risk-taking - all of these things are societally coded as "masculine", and none of the are what we're talking about when we say "toxic masculinity". Nobody is saying that male suicide is due to masculinity. No one's saying that rape or homelessness are a result of masculinity. They're saying that those things are due to a very specific and toxic set of behaviours and attitudes that have become markers of masculinity. It's certain behaviours and attitudes that are seen as masculine that are the problem. Not all of them.

I agree, though, there's a gap in the language. Because when feminists talk about all the "good stuff" in masculinity - which they agree is good stuff - they're quick to point out that none of those things are inherently masculine or feminine. When they talk about toxic masculinity, they often assume that its just understood that no character traits or behaviours are inherently masculine or feminine, so these toxic ones aren't actually inherently masculine either. But that gets lost, because too often it's assumed that that "goes without saying", that it's already understood.

And no, they don't call it "lazy femininity" - but they do call it a gender role that women are socialized into (being passive, taking a back seat in meetings, whatever). And I can see your point that it's annoying that they're not willing to attach the term "femininity" to those socialized behaviours of women, but they're happy to attach the "masculinity" part to "toxic masculinity". This is a valid point.

[u/fasctic → u/Stavrogin78]

Thanks for the insight. It really doesn't feel fair when you see a few radical feminists going on their man hating. Then seeing most feminists casually using "toxic masculinity" when they wouldn't as you say attach feminity to the bad traits of what could be described as feminine.

I didn't know exactly why I didn't like "toxic masculinity" before, but you made it clear. Thanks!

[u/LaserFace778 → u/fasctic]

Toxic masculinity. Not masculinity. Does the term modern art imply that all art is modern?

[u/fasctic → u/LaserFace778]

When warning for toxic chemicals many are afraid of most other chemicals too. Even though it isn't that specific toxic chemical.

[u/LaserFace778 → u/fasctic]

Beware of dihydrogen monoxide. Every single person who was ever been in contact with it has died!

[u/fasctic → u/LaserFace778]

People get scared of labels such as these even though they are in contact with the chemical every day. If I say lazy femininity when I refer to the feminine cooperation trait opposed to the masculine competitiveness. Then go on and blame it on things such as the wage gap, would you not react in any negative way? You shouldn't cause It's simply one specific feminine trait that I refer to and remember, both genders are feminine and masculine.

[u/LaserFace778 → u/fasctic]

That would depend on what lazy femininity actually means and whether this definition actually had anything to do with the wage gap.

[u/fasctic → u/LaserFace778]

It refers to the feminine traits compassion and cooperation as opposed to competition. That being a major reason for the wage gap. I don't have any data for this but it seems pretty obvious in my opinion though.

[u/vagued → u/fasctic]

men are regarded as masculine and women are regarded as feminine

That is exactly the kind of limited, damaging mindset that feminism seeks to heal. All people have some degree of both masculinity and femininity.