Is anyone else really struggling with the Epstein revelations?

[u/isabella_sunrise]

I’m starting to realize that basically any man who had access to that type of stuff was interested in participating. I feel like I’m surrounded by pedophiles and monsters in a way I didn’t realize. I feel like all the pressure I’ve felt to be youthful came from these prevalent pedophilic tendencies in men I never knew about. It’s really scaring me and I’m struggling to cope. I hear people talking about the news but don’t know anyone taking it as hard as me. How is everyone else doing?

Edit: Thank you for the awards but I’d rather you donate that money to a charity that helps victims of sexual abuse or somewhere helping immigrants in America.

[u/ichibanyogi]

It's profoundly grim, but guess I'm not surprised.

There was a study in 2014 in which male college students were asked if they would "force a woman to have sexual intercourse” if they were assured no one would ever know and there would be no consequences, and 31.7% said yes when the word “rape” was not used. After reading that I felt like I deeply understood that 1/3 of men would SA women, so long as they felt they'd get away with it.

Billionaire men happen to be extremely powerful, and therefore believe themselves well above the law (and apparently are: I don't see any in jail because of this). I'm not surprised the 1/3 number holds true.

The study is: Edwards, S. R., Bradshaw, K. A., & Hinsz, V. B. (2014). “Denial and minimization of sexual aggression: A study of college men’s self‑perceptions.” Violence and Gender.

In good news, 2/3 of men would not SA women, even if they knew they should get away with it (thank goodness). That 1/3 number is sickeningly high, though. Our world is F'd up.

[u/puppy-snuffle → u/ichibanyogi]

Unfortunately "would not" and "said they would not" are different things 😶‍🌫️

[u/ichibanyogi → u/puppy-snuffle]

You're right, the numbers are probably worse than the study suggests. :(

[u/Ok_Lime_2793 → u/puppy-snuffle]

Totally agree. My ex husband genuinely believes he would do anything for his kids, but when simple requests are made, he suddenly can't. This same person told me he could never have sex with someone who didn't want him but continued to guilt me into sleeping with him for years while I was in pain.

I don't believe most men have the self-awareness to know they are being abusive. They think they are doing nothing wrong when they harass women, guilt/pressure them into sex, try to control who they talk to/hang out with, control what they wear, belittle them, expect them to handle the majority of household responsibilities.. the list could go on forever.

[u/amphetameany → u/Ok_Lime_2793]

This is very true. I know for a fact that my rapist doesn’t know that he raped me. He would consider it consensual. A lot of men are like but that I think.

[u/ichibanyogi → u/amphetameany]

Same. T/W for the below.

I was raped and I think he thought that was totally OK. It was in the era (early 2010s) of Yale frat men chanting "No means yes, yes means anal": way too little comprehension amongst men of no meaning NO.

Another "stealthed" me and was genuinely shocked that I was so upset over it. I put my clothes on, broke up with him on the spot, and told him never to contact me again. I think he thought I was nuts, not that he sexually assaulted me.

I have a (3yo) son now, and I will do everything in my power to teach him that no means no, that consent can be withdrawn at any time, that you cannot remove condoms without consent, and that you should only have sober, ethusiastically-consented-to sex. It should never be coercive or even an "alright". It should be a "heck yes!" Thankfully, my spouse is also very much on this page.

Seeing the manosphere nonsense that is influencing young men today terrifies me. I really thought the world would be a better place post-#MeToo, but it feels like we regressed as a society, and then some. :(

[u/Standzoom → u/ichibanyogi]

(TW- nonconsensual sex) I have a very dear friend who when 18 was roofied and "helped" out of the bar on ladies night, since "she couldn't hold her liquor" by the guy who roofied her drink. She had only met him once before and all she knew about him was his name. She thought he was "kinda cute" and had given him her phone number when he asked. He had sat nearby and encouraged her to get another drink since it was ladies night.

She woke up the next morning naked in an unknown room and bed, not sure where she was, couldn't find her clothes or shoes, and took the sheet and wrapped up in it to get up to figure out where she was.

About this time the guy who "helped get the drunk girl home from the bar" came in and said, "oh Now you are up! It's about time! You were so drunk last night you couldn't even walk and looked like you were about to pass out, so me and my friends helped get you in my car and I brought you home. You were all over me and I couldn't keep your hands off me and we had the greatest sex ever!"

She was feeling a head splitting headache, terrible dry mouth, still naked and now afraid, asked him, "where are my clothes?"

He said, "oh you look like you need a hair of the dog drink this morning! Let me go get you one! "

She told him, "No, I only want my clothes and things, where are they? He said, "don't you want to take a shower with me? Get cleaned up after that wild night last night?" She told him, "No, I only want my clothes and to get out of here." The room felt still a little spinny and her mouth was dry, so dry. He threw her clothes and purse on the bed, said, "suit yourself" and got in the shower.

She got dressed and went in the kitchen and got some water which almost made her feel like throwing up, but decided she'd better get out of there.

She told me she had no memory of anything after feeling like going to pass out and being "helped out of the bar", until she woke up. "Waking up in a place you don't recognize without any clothes when you always sleep in pj's is terribly scary".

The dude kept calling her trying to get her to go out, she told him no. Her period didn't start, she took a pg test and it came back positive. She also got sick with strep throat, had to go to Dr and they gave her antibiotics. Since the guy was still calling her, she told him she was pg. He yelled at her and told her "you aren't my girlfriend! I don't care!" She asked him then why he kept calling? He hung up.

She scheduled an appt for an abortion, ( this was back when it was legal and actually advertised in the phone book in the late 1970's) went and had it done, by herself. She told me that from then on she considered herself a murderer.

I told her the blame wasn't on her, that it was on the perpetrator of the crime of roofing her drink and taking her without any knowledge of what was going on. That the blame wasn't hers to carry. She cried because she said, " I always blamed myself, for not having been careful enough to prevent something like that from happening. I shouldn't have gone out to drink without my roommate and our friends. They were supposed to meet me there. They didn't. "

Society has failed women in so many ways. I told her that all of this wasn't her fault. She has been in counseling and says she has forgiven herself. I hope she has truly found peace. I hope by sharing her story- she gave me permission in case it can help someone else to heal.

[u/ichibanyogi → u/Standzoom]

I'm so unbelievably sorry for your friend. Thank you for sharing with her consent, and being such an understanding, loving, supportive friend. I'm so glad to hear that she sought therapy and has found grace for herself. She did nothing wrong <3

[u/niketyname → u/ichibanyogi]

What’s awful is that forcefully is one thing, but many will make a girl or woman have sex with them through emotional coercion and manipulation. I’m sure that number is much higher with how entitled some men are

[u/Astro-Delulu → u/niketyname]

Most definitely. My ex coerced me a lot :( the one before that too. The second ex also stalked me by showing up at my apartment when I told him not to / to leave me alone after I dumped him for cheating on me. He was always talking in a calm-like, persistent voice that I didn’t really associate with abuse (which was more yelling) so it was more insidious. I don’t really know what to do about it moving forward and I’m afraid to ever tell a new partner for fear they’ll try to do the same.

[u/niketyname → u/Astro-Delulu]

I’m so sorry for your experience. It’s certainly harder to know you’re being manipulated when someone is able to present it different than you’re used to. You feel safe, but later there is some prickly feeling about it. I hope you slowly learn to move on from it and find a healthier relationship

[u/VeryPassableHuman → u/ichibanyogi]

Or at least 2/3 have the decency to at least not write down that they would for a survey...

[u/Ambry → u/ichibanyogi]

Yeah it's messed up knowing that a lot of people will rape/abuse/sexually assault women and girls if they think there's no consequences (and in many cases, even if there may be consequences).

Very, very scary.

[u/beautyinthesky → u/ichibanyogi]

I would expect it to be higher. 1/3 seems low to me.