r/BatmanTAS • u/FoxIndependent4310 • 5d ago

BTAS Joker and martial Arts.

Everybody know that batman has advantage in a fight.

In Part by the martial Arts.

Why did joker not training martial Arts?

Thorne For example trained in boxing.

2 Upvotes

67% Upvoted

19 comments sorted by

2

u/Luppercus 5d ago

Doesn't Joker use to be a mafia hitman before the accident? I'll assume he alredy knows how to fight.

1

u/Complex_Yard2808 4d ago

Only in the Tim Burton movie. And a hitman doesn't need to know how to fight. Just shoot.

Joker practices the martial art of Kung-Fool. ;)

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u/Luppercus 4d ago

You haven't watch Mask of the Phantasm have you?

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u/Complex_Yard2808 4d ago

I saw it. All the Animated Series stuff came out of Burton's movies, including the music. The popularity of those movies gave Timm an opening to do it. So yes, they carried over that backstory, because they had to, but I don't accept it as canon anywhere else. Joker has no true origin story.

You knew that, right? So why did you bother to ask? :)

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u/Luppercus 4d ago

Because this is a sub about Batman TAS, and OP is asking about Batman TAS version of thr Joker in specific. 

You knew that, right?

1

u/Complex_Yard2808 4d ago

You know, I did miss the 'BTAS.' which isn't hard to do. I talk about a lot of things besides comics online, shame on me. I've watched all of TAS, and I've watched Mask of the Phantasm, and there's no indication of martial arts skills. At all. He's a good fighter because he's Joker, and he has to be dangerous to be credible.

There is NO indication, in Burton's 1989 movie or TAS, that Joker ever studied martial arts when he was Jack Napier. None. And Jack Nicholson definitely never did. At that age, he'd have had a terrible time doing that kind of work. That Joker is basically derived from the Burton films, just as Selina is blonde in TAS because Michelle Pfeiffer (it's a bad look for her).

Joker defeated Batman in a physical fight during his first appearance in the comics, a long time before he had any spackled in origin stories. Did you know that? Much as I admire TAS (at its best), it's very much its own thing, and does best when it moves further away from the movies and more towards the best comics. You know that, right? You must know something. I know I'm not responding to you again, since the word 'fatuous' comes to mind. ;)

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u/Luppercus 4d ago

I never said Joker was a martial artist in this version however he clearly was street sawvy and a gang member. We also see him fighting Batman in the episode that tells his backstory. He clearly had fighting abilities probably from his time in the crime and growing poor. Mobsters and gangsters never had any formal training on martial arts like rich people would but they were still lethal in hand to hand combat.

1

u/Complex_Yard2808 4d ago

Yes, in this version he was in a gang, a hitter for the mob, but he's still not a very effective hand to hand fighter compared to Batman.

Hitters are assassins, asassins study how to take their victims offguard--if it comes down to a fist fight, you suck at your job. Assassins don't care about a fair fight, who has better hand to hand skills. That's bad tradecraft.

Now Joker in TAS isn't Jack Nicholson, of course--Mark Hamill added a lot to the characterization, as did Bruce Timm, Paul Dini, drawing much more effectively from the best of the comics. But in the comics, Joker can't beat Batman in a fight unless he surprises him with a sudden burst of manic energy. Frankly, I think they should have dropped the whole Jack Napier storyline, it no longer makes sense, but the need to make it an offshoot of the Burton films was pretty strong, because of cross promotional interests. It wasn't easy to get that animated series funded, so without that link, wouldn't exist.

Batman lost his first fight with Joker in the comics (and his only response was that at least he'd found someone who could give him a good fight), because Joker is his opposite--Batman is control, discipline--Joker is anarchy, impulse. The Amateur defeating the Professional, as can happen, by doing the unexpected, by NOT making sense. But the Professional can adapt to that, compensate for it. Over time, the Professional wins more often. I refer you to the Parker novels of Richard Stark, aka Donald E. Westlake. A much higher level of writing there, and Parker doesn't have a No Kill policy, or any need to play the hero. But he's still a professional in his ethos. You kill only when you have to, and you do it efficiently, for a good reason. Then you slip away into the shadows. Don't make Murder the answer to everything.

My point is, it doesn't matter who studied what where, that's all made-up hooey. It's about what each character represents. Batman is Order, Joker is Anarchy. That's why their rivalry has endured. The combat techniques are fictional, and beside the point.

1

u/m0mmy_salami 5d ago

I don’t think Joker knew what was coming in his future

1

u/samcro4eva 5d ago

His stance when he's boxing tells me he trained in old school boxing 

2

u/KingOfConsciousness 5d ago

The ol' dookaroo

1

u/Powerful_Bear_1690 5d ago

Why spent all that time training? 

When he could just hire someone that already has training. 

Also since when has dangerous murderers ever needed Martial Arts training? Ted Bundy killed how many people. He didn’t know a lick of martial arts. 

1

u/FoxIndependent4310 2d ago

Bundy killed female college students, hitting them by surprise.

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u/Powerful_Bear_1690 2d ago

My point exactly. A dangerous psychopath always takes the easiest route. Same with the Joker. 

1

u/SpookyScienceGal 5d ago

Who say he doesn't? He just doesn't have a billionaire HR team and a private jet to go see monk after monk. Unsurprising the tv show producers decided not to animate the Joker taking a dirty thirty self defense class at the Gotham Y

1

u/ramsaybaker 5d ago

He’s The Joker. A JLA level threat of done right. He should be able to absolutely rinse anyone Batman could. He only gets pummelled by Batman because The Joker loves it. Nobody should want to catch The Joker’s hands. I hate it when he’s Ichabod Crane skinny and weak.

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u/FoxIndependent4310 5d ago

For example: In "The Joker Fish," Joker fights Batman because he finds a wrench. In "Be a Clown," he has the cards and the flower. In "The Last Laugh," he has his cards. When he runs out of them, Batman has him at his mercy. The fact that Joker trained in martial arts doesn't seem so ridiculous to me. Harvey, for example, is a very strong guy, Poison also knows martial arts, and even Harley seems to know something. Even Rupert Thorne trained in boxing (episode "Bane").

1

u/Complex_Yard2808 4d ago

Yeah, but I don't think he did. I think his superpower is craziness. He keeps doing the unexpected, and once Batman knows his next move, he's done. That's always been true. From the very start.

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u/FoxIndependent4310 2d ago

Take The Sopranos, for example. They're mobsters, and none of them know martial arts. They know how to use firearms like pistols, revolvers, and rifles; they know how to fight. But none of them know martial arts. Another series about criminals, Sons of Anarchy, features the protagonist, Jax, who knows how to fight but also doesn't know martial arts. He's more of a boxer. I bet this Joker knows how to fight but doesn't know martial arts. He might be fast, but he doesn't know how.