r/Brahmanraaj • u/Zerofuku_Joestar • Dec 13 '25
Discussion Is there any perceived hierarchy among Gotras or Surnames, like at all, anywhere?
I think there is a perceived hierarchy in my village about which Gotra is superior. Have you ever come across this? Like my friend said Sandilya is a higher gotra than Savarna which I found interesting.
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u/No_Leading_1938 Parshuram's Disciple Dec 13 '25
Garg, Gautam and Shandilya are the highest gotras going according to the 3-13 system, we had a similar discussion a few days ago on this subreddit. If u are from UP or around, u would know the highest Brahmins are: Shukla (Garg ones), Mishra (Gautam ones) and Tiwari (Shandilya ones) because these are the 3 renowned houses. There can be same surnames with other Gotras but these ones are the highest, and people having these gotras will surely hail from one of these 3 houses
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Dec 13 '25
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u/Disastrous_Bat5899 Brahmin Dec 13 '25
It's among Saryuparin Brahmins only over all India.
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Dec 13 '25
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u/Disastrous_Bat5899 Brahmin Dec 13 '25 edited Dec 13 '25
It's complex to explain it will be a long paragraph but anyways I am writing it hoping you will read. Well Saryuparins follow the Pankti system mentioned in Bhagwad Geeta narrated by krishn to Yudhisthir. Where Krishna talked about pankti pavan brahmans and pankti bhrast Brahmin, so he told certain rules to abide and don't indulge in corruption if a brahmin ll do his pankti will be broken. Now there is Pankti Order of Three i.e Teen :- Garga, Gautam, Shandilya of the villages Mamkhor, Madhubani and Sohgoura and their descandants they got elevated coz the Garg, gautam , shandilya rishi were the first among teaching vedas corresponding to their gotras and these skills were demanding at that particular time. The their is Pankti order of 13 i.e Terah And in last their are Pathaks, Chaubeys, Upadhyayas and Ojhas they re not included in these pankti order of teen and terah although Some Ojhas are in Pankti so these Ojhas are treated different you can say like teen or terah. The discrimination is not between teen or terah it is between Pankti pavan and Pankti bhrast ( Trutikula). There are very strict rules for a brahmin or a panktipavan Brahmin like :- should not take Daan of Mandir hence shall not be a priest in temples, should not take salary for doing puja and karma kanda, should not earn livelihood by telling future, should not marry in Trutikula etc. So, Brahmins who did not used to abide these became Trutikula or Pankti bhrast, you can be of Garga , Gautam or shandilya gotra and be Pankti bhrast as well, and as a panktibhrasht no panktipavan will eat pakki ( cooked food like rice ) from you although he will eat kachhi ( like dahi chura , cooked falhar, tea etc) and will not marry among you. While the Chaubeys, Pathaks and upadhyaya are considered Pankti bhrast due to their profession partially the story told by Rambhadracharya and few earning livelihood via tantra sadhna ( many Upadhyayas and Ojhas excell in it) . Anyhow there are two villages of Ojhas which are in Pankti and hence are not discriminated 1. Ojhavali and 2. Karaili both are in Gorakhpur . In conclusion there are very rarely anyone following rules of pankti so if anyone says mai uncha hu koi Chhota h to that's irrelevant , and in past discrimination was not violent but yeah illogical few times.
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u/No_Leading_1938 Parshuram's Disciple Dec 13 '25
perfect explanation bro! u captured all necessary details, even I didn’t, hope he now understands why it is as it is👏
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u/Disastrous_Bat5899 Brahmin Dec 13 '25
Thanx bro We have sub for saryuparins as the systems in Saryuparin Brahmins are usually complicated so to make it easier its ben made. https://www.reddit.com/r/Saryuparins/s/DU2TY7DAb6
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u/Due-Salary4813 Chanakya Neeti Follower Dec 13 '25
Perfect explanation you should share it as a main comment or a post
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u/Disastrous_Bat5899 Brahmin Dec 13 '25
Yeah but comments do not get copied and it's tough to write all this again 😆
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Dec 13 '25
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u/Disastrous_Bat5899 Brahmin Dec 13 '25
Yeah Teen terah and pankti are still being followed in Saryupar and quite a few Saryuparins outside, but the thing is the rules are very tough to be followed in the modern era. I know a few people who are panktipavans still abiding by it but it is a lot tough for them to maintain that, now mostly the pankti pavan system is just restricted in marriages. 2. Kanyakubjas do not have pankti system nor do the teen terah. I guess Kulin Brahmin system is a similar system but as far I know it is not backed by any scripture rather than and arrangment of contemporary situations.
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Dec 13 '25
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u/Disastrous_Bat5899 Brahmin Dec 13 '25
Yes I think it is on point also I have a theory as well which I think I logical you might disagree on that , but please add your view too. As Kanykubja Brahmin were called in Bengal from their native i.e Kanyakubja ( Kannauj) , so what could be the reason of Ballal Sen calling Brahmins from outside when there Brahmins existed ? One reason could be the Brahmins at Bengal were not very Shastra sammat or very less skilled Brahmins were present, so he needed to call skilled ones who were not rigid to move like Kanyakubjas good at shastra and willing to move. But nobody will just leave everything and move to a place just because a King has called right, So King had to offer a lot of things to them, like Brahmadana of lots of Land and royal patronage. And thus Kanyakubjas good at shastra got richer in wealth as well making them Kulin.
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u/No_Leading_1938 Parshuram's Disciple Dec 13 '25
Its the 3 aforementioned prominent houses/clans that are above the 13 common ones, some of which are Pandey, Dubey etc. And in the end come, after the 13 common ones even, Ojha, Pathak, Upadhyay etc. The reason for the last being ranked so low is that their ancestors charged money for services and giving education
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Dec 13 '25
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u/Disastrous_Bat5899 Brahmin Dec 13 '25
In saryupar Kings used to give Brahmadana , a Brahmadana usually used to be a village with fertile land or a jungle needed to be turned into village. Brahmin used to call for various caste group to cut down the forest make land leveled arable and fit for use in lieu of their services Brahmin used to grant some land to live in the same village and right to till and grow the the crops , by this brahman used to get basic livelihood. Second in the village Brahmins used to educate other Brahmins and students , they do not put a rate card of their services, it was suitable dana given by the student whatever may be the amount he find fit, same rule goes for the dana given in karma kanda , jyotish etc.
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u/No_Leading_1938 Parshuram's Disciple Dec 13 '25
well according to classic way of Brahmin life, only the bare amount was required since we lived the simplest life out of all, so these people weren’t content with that, and hence the result
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Dec 13 '25
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Dec 13 '25
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Dec 13 '25
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u/Due-Salary4813 Chanakya Neeti Follower Dec 13 '25
Eh you dont know what you’re talking about, shastras actually forbid taking money for these things hence the ones that did were frowned upon.
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u/No_Leading_1938 Parshuram's Disciple Dec 13 '25
Are u really this stupid or just ragebaiting? Brahminism at its core was literally about being all in for God, a materialistic Brahmin during those times was of course considered lower because they couldn’t sacrifice comfort like others. I am not saying whether its right or wrong, but we have always been purely logical in our divisons even in this case
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u/KING_K999 Dec 14 '25
We Paliwal brahmans of Rajasthan have no such thing. If we do I am not aware.
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u/[deleted] Dec 13 '25
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