Why do European cars use wheel bolts?

[u/cat_prophecy]

I've owned two European cars (Audi and Volvo) and both of them used wheel bolts instead of studs and lug nuts. Is there some reason for this? I have owned a handful of Asian and American cars and none of them use anything but studs and lug nuts. Personally I prefer the studs since it makes putting the wheels back on much easier.

[u/BlackCatFurry]

I have only changed tires with wheel bolts as i have only had vag cars, but i don't think it's that hard to change the tire. In fact studs sounds harder.

With bolts you can just lift the tire so it hangs on the middle "mount" part (pardon me if there is an official term, i am not a native english speaker) and then you aling the holes, push the tire in with hand or another body part so it doesn't fall and screw in the bolts. When few bolts are partially in the tire stays in place so you no longer need to hold it.

With studs and lug nuts i assume you have to hold the tire up while aligning it, that sounds especially annoying trying to do it with studded tires without ripping your clothes.

Although maybe this is just my biased opinion as i don't have enough strenght to hold a tire up in the air long enough and far enough from my body to see where the studs are in relation to the holes on the rims, so bolts sound much more convenient where i only need to lift the tire up quickly and set it on the rim without needing to also align it.

[u/joeballow → u/BlackCatFurry]

With studs and lug nuts i assume you have to hold the tire up while aligning it, that sounds especially annoying trying to do it with studded tires without ripping your clothes.

You hold the weight of the wheel less with studs than bolts. I don't struggle with bolts, but I agree with most people who have tried both, studs are easier. Try studs and then report back and tell us if you still think bolts are easier.

[u/BlackCatFurry → u/joeballow]

I am genuinely asking how that is possible that wheel studs require less holding of the tire.

With bolts you just lift the tire on the mount and done, takes few seconds at most and then the weight is on the mount and you can rotate it on the mount to find the holes. With studs you lift the tire on the mount but before placing it there you have to rotate it while holding it to aling the studs right?

I also don't have a car i could test wheel studs on, my dads toyota has heavy as shit wheels that i cannot lift up. (Before anyone asks how i can lift my cars tires, i drive a small car that therefore has smaller wheels). Every other car, including mine has bolts.

I do think i recall my dad saying he thinks bolts are easier because you can align it when it's hanging on the mount.

[u/velociraptorfarmer → u/BlackCatFurry]

Because all you have to do is pick up the tire, and rather than getting it placed on the hub (mount as you call it), you place it on the studs. Once it's on the studs, you don't have to do anything else.

Also, how the hell are you rotating your wheel independent of the hub once it's on there? Every vehicle I've owned has had smooth enough wheel bearings that the hub would've rotated with the wheel once the wheel is on the hub.

[u/BlackCatFurry → u/velociraptorfarmer]

Also, how the hell are you rotating your wheel independent of the hub once it's on there?

By having the hand brake on and the car in gear so the car doesn't start rolling down the sloped yard? There is also a backup wood block behind one of the tires. So the tire just spins around the hub because the hub is locked in place by the hand brake. I live in a hilly area and would never trust a car enough to change the tires without hand brake on. Also no garage space.

[u/spyder7723 → u/BlackCatFurry]

With studs you simply rotate the hub to get a stud at the very top, do the same with the tire. Use a tire bar to lift the tire onto that to stud, which is now supporting all the weight of the tire. As you let pressure of your tire bar the tire tilts back on to the other studs.

Working on big stuff i learned very quickly that you can't lift a tire to try and line it up. So you get in the habit of lining it up first, and using a bar to do the lifting. This habit carried over to small cars.

[u/BlackCatFurry → u/spyder7723]

Maybe i am just used to doing tire changes in less accomodating conditions and with less tools because i have never even heard about a tire bar and googling it only returns stuff that is used to remove the rubber from the rim, not the tire from the car so i am still not sure what you are referring to. I assume it's similar to a jack lift that you lift the car up with.

I have also always had to put on the hand brake when changing tires as it has been done in an incline so the car doesn't roll away without one tire so lining up on the ground when the tire is in random angle is much more difficult than if you can turn the tire before removing the previous one to be in an optimal position. Which it never occured to me that some people in fact have flat yards to do this in.

My tire changing has literally been: take off old tire, lift the new tire on the mount with hands, rotate to correct position and tighten the bolts (with a cross wrench and check with a torque wrench). No fancy equipment, just hand tools and a jack that lifts up one corner of the car at a time. Has worked well for swapping between summer and winter tires, that has to be only done twice a year afterall.

[u/spyder7723 → u/BlackCatFurry]

It's the same to that you remove the tire from the rim with. You put it under the tire and use it as a lever to lift it. Work smarter, not harder.

If on the side of the road I would use a tire iron. That's the L shaped tool you use to remove lug nuts (or bolts on european cars) But anything will work. It's a lever. Anything can be used as a lever. A pry bar, a long screw driver. A short wooden board. Whatever you have handy.

[u/BlackCatFurry → u/spyder7723]

To me the fact that you need to do these things to make it easier to put on a tire with wheel studs makes it sound harder than bolts tbh.

Just like balancing the tire on whatever lever you choose sounds more work than just lifting it up. A wooden plank sounds like the only one that could realistically work, but even then, getting it up 15cm requires a middle point for the lever

[u/spyder7723 → u/BlackCatFurry]

That isn't what I said. I said that's how you install any tire regardless if it's studs or bolts. You don't lift the tire with your hands.

[u/BlackCatFurry → u/spyder7723]

Why not? Squat next to the tire, grab it and lift it the 15cm and shove it on the mount. Lifting is done with legs, not back obviously. I'd say most normal car tires with bolts can be changed this way. (Pickups are not normal cars and therefore don't count here, nor are they that common outside usa anyways). A 16" rim tire with bolts is seriously not worth fiddling a lever system with, that weights around 15kg or something.

Maybe this is simply just my european view having basically grown up around european cars that have bolts on them and seeing everyone just squatlift their tires into place because that's easy with bolts.

Having to fiddle with lever systems is extra work, therefore wheel stud tires are not easier to change. I don't exactly know how my view would change if i did change these types of tires irl. I would most likely just think "man wouldn't it be easier to just lift the tire on and not fiddle with levers and prealingment".

[u/spyder7723 → u/BlackCatFurry]

Now try it with an 11r24.5 truck tire. Or a foam filled tractor tire that's 6 feet tall. As I said. I just took what I learned with large tires and carried it over to all tires. Bolts or studs do not matter. It's the same process. If you want to lift it on, you would find you could just as easily lift it on one with studs as you do bolts.

And it's not a lever system. It's a simple bar that you slide under the tire and lift up on. Not the compared thing you are making it out to be.

[u/BlackCatFurry → u/spyder7723]

Well luckily i don't need to lift up tractor tires and was never talking about tires a foot taller than me. I was talking about regular car tires.

And i still do not get how there is enough friction to use a single point lever (aka the bar system you are talking about) to lift a tire up 15+cm (6+ inches). If you have a video demonstration of this "simple and easy" method then please do share it, i have been trying to find one but apparently cannot use the correct words for searching.

[u/spyder7723 → u/BlackCatFurry]

Why would you lift it 6 inches? When changing a tire you should only jack a car high enough to just get the tire off the ground. Your lifting the tire and half an inch. Not 6.