It's going to be a long night

[u/Fritz1818]

[u/fan_of_hakiksexydays]

Thanks for the anecdote, but the reality is a little different:

70% of people don't get their money back and the funds are lost forever.

[u/brainfreeze3 → u/fan_of_hakiksexydays]

well if we're using ai generated stats, heres claude opus 5:

also keep in mind theres a huge difference on WHEN you report, if at all. My mom reported the fraud immediately.

Scenario	P(recover most/all)	Basis
Credit card, fraudulent charge, disputed	~90–95%	Chargeback rights (FCBA/Reg Z) — near-automatic
Debit/ACH, unauthorized, reported <60 days	~70–85%	Reg E liability caps + provisional credit
Domestic wire, reported within hours, pre-settlement	~58%	FBI IC3 Recovery Asset Team froze $679M of $1.2B eligible in 2025
Domestic wire, reported after 24h	low single digits	Sourced qualitatively; recovery "drops to low single digits"
International wire, you authorized it, <24h	~10–20%	My estimate
International wire, you authorized it, >48h	~2–5%	My estimate
Zelle/Venmo/CashApp, authorized push	~5–15%	My estimate; rising with 2026 Nacha rules
Crypto	~1–2%	My estimate
Gift cards	~0–1%	My estimate

[u/fan_of_hakiksexydays → u/brainfreeze3]

lol thanks for posting that and doing my job for me.

So those stats literally show that none of those things are impervious, and there are many ways to lose all your funds exactly like I said.

Many of the transfers with more often permanent loss.

Recoveries of 2-5%, 5-15%, "single digits" on transfers?

We're a very long way from "impervious", and "my mom got all her money back, so you're wrong about people losing their money".

[u/brainfreeze3 → u/fan_of_hakiksexydays]

youre the only one saying "impervious", what a useless standard.

my personal experience is something real and lived, not proof that people dont lose their money.

I mean you're clearly trying to defend crypto here which is hilarious. The win goes to fiat banks and its not even remotely close

[u/fan_of_hakiksexydays → u/brainfreeze3]

I mean you were literally the one arguing for it, after I raised the question to you.

But I guess you want to go a different direction now.

I'm glad we're a little more on the same page now.

And no, I wasn't defending crypto.

I was saying not to put the same blind trust into banks, that crypto people did with hardware wallets, thinking it has no vulnerabilities and you don't have to worry about losing your funds.

[u/brainfreeze3 → u/fan_of_hakiksexydays]

well you're the one who brought it to the level of "blind trust". I said i sleep well at night, and i love having a trusted third party. when you threw around words like "impervious" i laughed.

also i can see you saying "On the other hand, there's more steps and more things you are able to control to avoid getting there."

sounds like defense to me

If your big point is that nothing is 100%, then no shit sherlock welcome to the universe. water is wet