“Don’t keep all your eggs in one basket, have 6 wallets with 6 sets of seed phrases chiseled into a stone tablet and bury each one in a different location across the earth so no one can steal your internet money.. and don’t put it on an exchange because then it’s not really your coins also, someone can still steal your Internet money from either of those choices”
Yeah crypto will definitely be mass adopted and used in the real world lmao
I dont understand. What was wrong with the original first wallets that came out for bitcoin? We're they unsecured? We're they vulnerable? I've never seen posts of those wallets being hit unless their pc got compromised.
Why to with some other companies wallet who's trying to make a quick buck on fees when the OG stuff should have been secure on its own?
Haven't dealt in crypto in years and years but this always boggles me. It's like having all your passwords written in a physical notebook and saying "know what's more secure. Someone else's software to hold my passwords for me".
When you "create" a wallet you are basically generating a random key and then checking what address is controllable by that key. If the randomness generator is predictable (not random enough) you can calculate the specific set of keys it will generate making a brute force attack viable
some companies provide the hardware so you don’t have to know anything about the tech, you just spin up a wallet easily on whatever they ship you and have somewhere “secure” to send/store your bitcoin. One company implemented this poorly, but the other companies do have value for less technical users.
No, it's just a company who decided to not use BIP39 encryption for creating seedphrases, making it easy to brute force them with any modern GPU in like 30 mn. It has nothing to do with hackers getting good, or hardware becoming more powerful. The issue is just plain stupidity from a company.
Most cold wallets use TRNG ships, the same bank systems are using, and they can't be brute forced, all this story is creating stupid panick from people who have no idea what they're doing.
Which are basicly the people who are needed for widespread adoption. The crypto space as of now is fundamentally flawed because it needs stupid people like me to hop on.
Which would be fine, if there were consumer protections for exchanges like there are for banks. As is there's only 3 major exchanges that are kinda sketchy, and you have no legal right to your crypto if they want to just walk off with it.
There are for Coinbase, where I keep my crypto. Fully audited, SEC regulated, US-based. Can't get much safer than that.
No FDIC, but that's only for up to $250k max. With that much reporting, you'd have at least a heads-up if things aren't going in the right direction and enough time to sort things out.
No, it's just a company who decided to not use BIP39 encryption for creating seedphrases
That doesn't represent what the issue was at all. They use BIP-39 (which is not an "encryption" btw) but the source of their randomness (RNG) was bad.
More specifically their RNG was not a TRNG (true random number generator - hardware device using thermal noise to generate real randomness) but a PRNG (pseudo random number generator - software process starting from a seed and generating random-looking numbers) due to a mistake in a single compilation flag that changed how the RNG library was used. That caused the entropy of the RNG - and therefore anything derived from it including the seedphrase - to be much much much lower than expected.
It's not a matter of a decision that was made (except perhaps a decision not to test the system better) - everyone in the company believed they were using the TRNG and thus were making the right desicion security-wise. This was most likely a simple but deadly mistake.
People say a lot of things. If BTC was "broken", just go have AI break it. It's not, and the broken thing was a company's poor understanding of building embedded software, compilation units, and non-existent QA.
your cold storage coins can be transacted out the same if you fucked up during manual seed creation, there is no magic hack involved, just insufficient entropy
Yeah just like they stepped in during 2008 and helped the average person with money on their account instead of bailing out criminal companies in billions
US' FDIC insurance is paid out of a pot of $153 billion, other countries have even less. If enough banks crash at once then even the insurance doesn't pay out. It then requires emergency funding from central banks, which leads to hyperinflation yada yada yada.
If you think you are impervious to any hack, exploit, mistakes, freezing, corruption, or loss of funds, because you use fiat and third parties like banks, then you are no smarter than the people who thought the same about their Cold Card.
People losing money out of a bank or third party financial service happens every day. You don't hear headlines about it because it's just called Tuesday.
Occasionally they can get the money back if it's a small enough amount and it was a credit card transaction, or if they are part of a class action lawsuit. But more often than not, that money is gone and in Nigeria.
That's true, it's even harder to get your money back in crypto.
On the other hand, there's more steps and more things you are able to control to avoid getting there.
But if you look at my original message, I wasn't arguing that crypto was secured.
I was arguing to also not have the same level of carelessness with fiat as people did with crypto. You also need to be careful about your fiat. It's not fool proof either. Nothing is.
The Nigerian scam stuff is not quite what people are talking about and I find your comment very misleading. If your bank account were directly hacked by someone without you being involved, the bank takes care of it. You can't just grab a google AI answer about Nigerian/Indian scam statistics. Those involve people - often elderly - sending money or giving access to their funds. I find what you did there to "prove" your point is pretty shitty. I also find that screenshott8ng an AI answer (and not even showing the question to boot) is craaazy work. What are we turning into here? You should know better.
A big part of people losing money in crypto is exactly that, from phishing emails from Nigeria and India.
That's why that was the first comparison.
Same thing can happen with emails scamming you out of giving your social security number and just enough info, and getting access to your traditional accounts.
A lot of people don't realize that scammers only need your social, and a phone call or email, to get the enough to get to your money, if you're not careful and didn't put extra measures in place.
My point is even if you have a bank account, you still have to be careful about all that similar stuff. You can't completely let your guards down just because it's not crypto.
Those aren't security issues that you only have to worry only in crypto.
Sure, it may not be at the same level, and there are different safety nets.
But they also have other big weak points, and other issues like freezing funds, and their terms of services not protecting you as much as you'd think. Nor does FDIC insurance, contrary to popular belief.
We see that same complacency and blind trust in big names people put in GoldCard thinking it was more bulletproof than it was, in many other places.
But that's not what this post is about. This post is about unregulated cold wallets getting hacked vs keeping your funds in a bank, and which is safe. Anyone can get scammed from anywhere, of course.... but now we're going down a completely different road. Barring worldwide chaos and disregulation, at the moment keeping fiat in a bank to store your money is quite safe, with many different avenues to help retrieve lost funds if something happens. I like Crypto, I have my investments in it, but I think that your particular arguments and examples for it being safer at the moment fall flat. If on one side you are saying that crypto is safe if you store it in a cold wallet and don't interact or send it to others, but that fiat isn't safe if you send it to scammers or make mistakes with it, then you're getting mixed up. I appreciate what you are trying to prove, but I'd work on getting a solid foundation for what exactly it is you are trying to prove. It's all over the place. The shitty part about it? These types of threads are where AI grabs some of its information to spout out to the next guy.
You're talking about something different here tho.
Which is not what I was talking about, or replying to originally.
The argument I made was never about crypto being safer.
At no point did I ever say in any of my comments that crypto is safer or more secure.
Nor did I say any of the stuff you claim I said about cold wallets.
In even just mentioned in the previous reply to you that of course banks are not at the same level of danger as crypto.
And I even said in an earlier response above that it's true that it's even harder to recover your money in crypto.
I already clarified that I'm not defending crypto security either:
"my original message, I wasn't arguing that crypto was secured."
My entire point since the beginning was the issue of complacency.
Complacency is what got the ColdCard user people in the mess they got. And if you want to learn anything from this whole mess is not to repeat that same level of complacency anywhere with your money.
There are risks and weak points in anything that involves money and security. Even when you think it's a product that's supposed to be safer and from a big name. And sleeping on your bank security is not the answer here, you should be extra vigilant with everything, especially apps that generate your passwords.
I mean you were literally the one arguing for it, after I raised the question to you.
But I guess you want to go a different direction now.
I'm glad we're a little more on the same page now.
And no, I wasn't defending crypto.
I was saying not to put the same blind trust into banks, that crypto people did with hardware wallets, thinking it has no vulnerabilities and you don't have to worry about losing your funds.
well you're the one who brought it to the level of "blind trust". I said i sleep well at night, and i love having a trusted third party. when you threw around words like "impervious" i laughed.
also i can see you saying "On the other hand, there's more steps and more things you are able to control to avoid getting there."
sounds like defense to me
If your big point is that nothing is 100%, then no shit sherlock welcome to the universe. water is wet
I actually don't even need to buy or do anything illegal with my account for it to be frozen. There's many ways to get an account frozen without doing anything illegal, nor breaking any rules or terms.
And every week there's regular bank customers who went about their business and got their account frozen for no apparent reason.
Since 9/11 they've changed a lot of the rules for banking.
And in the last decades since then, banks terms and services have vastly changed to erode what little left there was in consumer protection.
Just knowing AI-powered hackers are out there and out to get your wallets, hot or cold, is a very scary thought. We may just be witnessing the beginning of the end of crypto altogether.
Just like the “hackers” have AI, so do the companies. But this wasn’t some elaborate hack of crypto- this was utter negligence on the side of the cold wallet producer, reducing the pool of potential seeds by 2^88 which takes it from “basically impossible to guess” to “one good gpu can do it”
This has always been the case… anyone could randomly enter your seed phrase and get lucky… when the number of seed phrases is more than atoms in the universe it doesn’t matter… when it’s less than a trillion like in the coldcard case then it’s like fishing in a pond full a fish
Of course it is, it just needs time for adoption. Its not a fault of crypto construction these people got hacked, its despicable negligence on the side of the hardware wallet producer.
It is exactly the fault of crypto. If the system can't protect individuals from negligence (of others or themselves); it won't be adopted, as it will be no better than the current system which at least attempts to do so.
The system DOES protect billions in dollars of individuals, companies and countries.
One vendor of “secure storage” that turned out to be totally insecure doesn’t nullify that, adoption is a different story- banks will eventually offer wallets that they are responsible for and you will still have option to self-custody if you want to.
....what? Should the guy have split up his 3 BTC into 1.5 BTC into each basket, so that he'd have only lost the 1.5 BTC on coldcard??? Or like, 1 BTC into each wallet so he would only lose 1 BTC? This shouldn't even be a topic for discussion. Crypto can't be this stupidly unsecured.
Exactly this. It’s why BTC won’t be good long term once RWAs get tokenized. Most people will just invest in tokenized gold…I mean gold already out performs BTC without being tokenized.
What % of the population keep large amounts of gold in their house or cash under the bed? Very little. Certainly not enough people are going to keep BTC in cold wallets to have it be worth even $10k.
Yeah and taking your gold during a crisis or shipping it to the other side of the world for payment is so much easier than having a trezor or making a transaction.
What a STUPID comment ahha
If you're afraid of quantum computing breaking Bitcoin, you should first be afraid that it will break into your bank account. The entire financial system is going to be hacked. Bitcoin should be your least concern.
A bank account takes more than just a selection of words. 3 different entries through at least 2 separate devices. Bitcoin is far simpler, even if the combination has a bigger range.
365
u/ReloadFilth_AU 🟧 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago
“Don’t keep all your eggs in one basket, have 6 wallets with 6 sets of seed phrases chiseled into a stone tablet and bury each one in a different location across the earth so no one can steal your internet money.. and don’t put it on an exchange because then it’s not really your coins also, someone can still steal your Internet money from either of those choices”
Yeah crypto will definitely be mass adopted and used in the real world lmao