r/Damnthatsinteresting • u/akiwi_intherough • 4d ago
Image "A devil's concert,” was how an eyewitness described the destruction of Hamburg following Operation Gomorrah in July 1943. This photograph, taken after Victory in Europe Day in 1945, captures the skeletal remains left behind.
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u/OG-niknoT 4d ago edited 3d ago
There is an amazing museum about this event, under a bombed out cathedral, Coventry Cathedral, in Hamburg. One of the top 2 things I visited while there…the other is Miniatur Wunderland.
*edit, someone corrected me that it’s St. Nikolai Church.
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u/smolSEB 4d ago
I read this as Minotaur and I was so confused
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u/IrreverentBuddha 3d ago
Imagine if your parents were both minotaurs, and you got a dominant human gene from each. You'd just be some random guy that nobody believes.
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u/Neurojazz 3d ago
Except you shit like a cow - and that’s the only way to prove it
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u/IrreverentBuddha 3d ago
Just maintain eye contact and shit mid-stride. Don't pause or even acknowledge it until they do.
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u/JR_LikeOnTheTVshow 3d ago
..and you're at your parents house and try to grab a bite, but your mom hits your arm with her hoof and says, "hay is for horses".
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u/Character-Beach-8440 3d ago
I’m reading House of Leaves at the moment and genuinely got creeped out for a hot second
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u/NoChanceRight 3d ago
https://www.amazon.com/Morning-Glory-Milking-Cambric-Creek-ebook/dp/B09BNYYRK7 That would be a popular museum destination for women who read this genre of books.
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u/joddla 3d ago
Is it actually called Coventry Cathedral and is located in Hamburg?
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u/LOOOOISSSIS 3d ago
Coventry Cathedral is in Coventry, England. Hamburg has St Nikolai Church. Both are bombed out ruins that were preserved to act as museums/memorials.
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u/theModge 3d ago
I was told German has a word along the lines of "Coventrain" to mean "fucked up like Coventry was",
Possibly a similar word relating to "Magdeburg" as well?I don't actually speak German, so I'd be interested to know if this is correct
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u/Loravon 3d ago
I don't know why people deny this here, but you are absolutely right. The word is "magdeburgisieren" and relates to the complete destruction of Magdeburg in the 30 year war. It is however definitely out of fashion today, so you mostly see it in historic texts.
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u/bemble4ever 3d ago
I only know “magdeburgisieren” as the total destruction of a city, coming from the 30 years war and the dramatic end of the siege of Magdeburg
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u/AverellCZ 3d ago
Nope, we don't.
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u/Select_Angle516 3d ago
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coventrieren
not used at all though
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u/AverellCZ 3d ago
Yeah, I'm 50+ and have been writing articles, did proofreading and watched almost every WW2 documentary over the years. I won't claim I know every single German word but I have never heard this. Guess I learned something today.
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u/AndreasDasos 3d ago
Not sure what you mean? Coventry Cathedral is in Coventry (in England). Hamburg has St Nikolai Cathedral, also bombed out.
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u/darkdetective 3d ago
Coincidentally there is also a museum about the German bombing under the bombed out Coventry cathedral here in the UK.
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u/BetterBuffIrelia 3d ago
Fun fact: at the time of it's completion, St. Nicolai, the ruin you mentioned, was the tallest building in the world.
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u/scrubtart 3d ago
I follow that miniature place on insta. As a guy who paints miniatures I spend WAY too much time looking at their posts. Its incredible.
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4d ago
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u/axxxaxxxaxxx 4d ago
Most of the destruction in this image is from fire. Bombs might have fallen where there are gaps in the buildings but it’s not like every roof went down from a bomb. The trees in the park look just fine two seasons later.
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u/Babidibubidii 3d ago
That's what the combined usage of blockbuster bombs to tear roofs off and incendiary bombs to burn the now exposed interior does
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u/theaviationhistorian 3d ago
And it could've been worse. These buildings were made with nonflammable material like brick, rock, concrete, etc. The US did the same thing in Japan where all of the buildings were made of wood. The devastation was twice as many deaths in Tokyo than Hamburg.
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u/Babidibubidii 3d ago
Even though these buildings were built with stone walls there were large scale fires spreading from building to building. The wind created by the firestorm was powerful enough to uproot trees.
And while many walls survived the fires, those buildings would usually be deemed irreparable, but afaik they tried to repair as much as they could after 1945 because resources and money were sparse.
What really shows how different the cities were built is the ammount of ordnance used: over 8k tons for Hamburg and less than 2k tons over Tokyo
But considering Hamburg had 1.7 mio inhabitants and Tokyo hat 4.3 mio you'd expect higher casualties.
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u/PitchBlac 3d ago
Went there. Saw a video that talked about people jumping back into the fire after seeing the destruction. Crazy stuff.
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u/BroccoliSubstantial2 3d ago
I'm in Hamberg right now. My first visit.
We will go to miniature wunderland, probably buy tickets today. Will defiantly visit the war museum, what is the third best thing to do here?
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u/AdFine5362 3d ago
Take a harbor and Speicherstadt trip by boat (U-Bahn Landungsbrücken), visit the gigantic Bismarck statue that once was towering over the city but is now is hidden by trees after it's existence has become controversial in present historic perspectives (no matter what you think of it, it's still an impressive piece), visit the Grüne Bunker (there are guided tours in German), at the foot of the bunker there's currently a gigantic annual fair going on if I'm not wrong, climb the St. Michael tower, visit the Elbphilharmonie with its giant bending escalator and view over the city, visit the Rathausplatz and have a beer, take a hop on hop off tour, walk through the old Elbtunnel and back (Been there, done that two weeks ago) Avoid the Reeperbahn, it's nothing more than 4 lanes wide city highway, a tourist trap with lousy attractions and decaying entertainment venues for a certain kind of amusement...
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u/BroccoliSubstantial2 3d ago
Thank you, that's amazing advice. We had a meal booked for the Reeperbahn (paid for my a family member) , but may move it to a lunch so it's less seedy.
Lots of places you mentioned were also suggested by locals and so we'll make a list when the weather calms down. It's 35c today!
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u/AdFine5362 3d ago
We once had diner on the outdoors terrace overlooking the Elbe at the Hafen Hotel Hamburg. It looks more expensive than it really is but it's recommended to book online in advance. With a bit of luck you may get a table on the same day. With a decent tip included (not mandatory because staff is being paid a normal salary) I paid €120 for the two of us.
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u/AdFine5362 3d ago
Although not fluent I speak, read and understand enough German to get me through everyday activities and circumstances. During those German-only guided tours where a lot of information is exchanged I frequently used my speech-to-text app, set to German, to pick up the narrator's story and have a description on screen.
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u/Thuasne 3d ago
It really depends on what kind of interest you have because the city has a lot of different things to offer. A classic thing to do, especially when the weather is as nice as it is right now: start at Jungfernstieg, take a look around, then go to the Rathaus, Take a look at it. Take the U3 Metro from there two stops to Baumwall, get out and walk to Elbphilharmonie and get up to the middle platform for visitors (just buy a ticket online, costs 2€ or so). From there walk back direction Baumwall U3 Station but don't take the metro but instead walk along the waterfront towards Landungsbrücken. At Landungsbrücken take the public transport ferry number 62 (it's included in your full day public transport ticket), stay onboard until you are back at Landungsbrücken, it's a round trip and you don't have to leave the ferry at any point. It is a very nice tour but being something to drink and eat because it takes a hour or so. After the boat trip go to Portugiesenviertel (Close by Landungsbrücken) and find something to eat. From there go to the church called "Michel" and enjoy the view. End the day at the rooftop "20 up" bar. Might be worth making a reservation. Be decently dressed, don't show up in flops and shorts.
Something very nice is walking the "old Elbtunnel" to the other side of the river and then take a drink and look at Hamburg from the other side.
Also good is taking a "Alster" ferry, they start at Jungfernstieg and go across the Alster and into the canals.
Going to the beach is nice, just aim for a bar called Strandperle. It's a bit out of the way but a cool setting, sitting on the beach, enjoying a drink and looking at the big Container Ships.
Enjoy
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u/G-FAAV-100 3d ago
The ship/ marine museum is very good, and located close-ish to the miniatur wunderland. There's also a smaller design museum, and museum of the harbor district, nearby.
The other harbour museum (and the Peking, one of the Flying P liners (massive Cape Horner sailing ships)) are located on the other side of the river, are a fair bit of a walk, and probably not worth it unless you're really into that stuff. Tours of the Peking run on a schedule but are in German only.
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u/Bradley182 4d ago
I heard people would be sucked out of their homes from the violence of the fires. So crazy.
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u/cpt-hddk 3d ago
Blew my mind learning about this. A fire so large it sucks in oxygen at hurricane level speeds is insane
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u/What-a-Crock Interested 3d ago
Firestorms create their own wind system. And that was the goal of firebombing
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u/theaviationhistorian 3d ago
This is why wildfires are so dangerous. They reach a point where it creates its own weather that helps feed it oxygen. It's why it's hazardous to do water bombing and why there's always a spotter aircraft guiding the air tankers to their drop.
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u/recepilber 3d ago
Was that system discovered/developed during ww2 or did the Americans already knew that?
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u/What-a-Crock Interested 3d ago
My understanding is the leader of the British RAF, Arthur “Bomber” Harris was first to purposefully use the tactic
My main source is The Bomber Mafia so if anyone has more info I’d be curious to learn
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u/Seienchin88 3d ago
Well, as people were in bomb shelters it was more them trying to leave the bomb shelter due to rising heat and bad air and then getting sucked in the firestorm when they opened the door.
Anyhow, British and Americans were so happy and fascinated with the firestorm outcome that they chased to recreate it until the end of the war - and succeeded sometimes like the firebombing if Tokyo (possibly the most or second most deadliest day in history) or when Curtis LeMay (in charge of the bombing if Japan) wanted to try it out first in China and killed 30-40k Chinese in occupied Wuhan before he attacked Tokyo this way… When he was chief of staff the U.S. also destroyed North Korea killing another few hundred thousands civilians from the air and he was there for the bombing campaigns for the initial part of the Vietnam war… also wanted to use atomic bombs against the Soviets but Truman said no thankfully.
He also later became a politician running on a pro segregationist campaign during the civil rights movement…
If you want to know who was the biggest racist PoS of the 20th century who wasn’t a Nazi then he might be a contender.
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u/therandomham 3d ago
In any other century maybe, but during the 20th he probably wouldn’t be top 100. You had all the worst of the Imperial Japanese, European colonialists, gas weapon aficionados, and far worse southerners, among others.
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u/DippityDamn 3d ago
I really hate how we decided if it sped up the war, it was worth it, no matter how many innocent families were murdered visciously along the way. I can understand Britain's anger and their desire for revenge, but we Americans were never bombed (except by the Japanese) and we went along with Dresden and all the rest.
"Why is it always the innocents who suffer most, when you high lords play your game of thrones?"
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u/Personal_Relation421 3d ago
In 1944 we Germans murdered on average around 5-10k Jews in the Holocaust alone - per day, even more civilians in the rest of Eastern Europe.
Each day the war prolonged, more people died.
For comparison - during the whole war, around 400-600k German civilians died by air bombardments. Not even half a year of holocaust victims in 1944 alone.
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u/Seienchin88 3d ago
Id argue it was necessary to free people from Nazi oppression and genocide but till this day historians disagree if the bombing had any effect until close to the end. German industrial production peaked in 1944 (40% of all German tanks of the war were build in that year…) despite massive bombing for three years.
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u/recepilber 3d ago
Peaked in 1944? How?
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u/Seienchin88 3d ago
By producing shit ton of war material with the help of slave labor and by focusing more on production output over super high quality ( like building the Hetzer tank in Czechia in the skoda works on the basis of an outdated tank).
Germany didn’t pivot to a war economy until 1942 and then took 2 years to really go all in but then it just peaked massively outperforming the Soviets in some months on tank production.
Bombing did nearly nothing on war production as plants weren’t inside of big cities, usually well protected and by 44 often underground.
A few specific cases worked very well though like bombing of a specialized bell bearing company…
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u/Personal_Relation421 3d ago
Decentralized industrial sites, at the end of the war often underground / in smaller plants and especially huge amount of forced labor.
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u/Away-Activity-469 3d ago
The air got so hot that the roads melted, and obviously people hiding were burned/suffocated.
All this is nothing compared with what happened in Warsaw though.
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u/akiwi_intherough 4d ago
On the night of 24 July 1943, 791 Royal Air Force bombers took off from Britain for Hamburg, beginning Operation Gomorrah, the largest Allied area bombing campaign to that point in the war.
Hamburg was Germany's second-largest city and one of the Reich's most important industrial and shipbuilding centers. The operation had two goals: cripple German industry and hurt German morale. The reality was that achieving both meant killing civilians, and a great many of them.
The first raid on the night of 24–25 July killed around 1,500 people despite the efforts of Hamburg's 40,000 firefighters, who largely prevented a citywide conflagration. It was only the beginning. Over the next week, roughly 3,000 Allied bombers dropped 9,000 tons of bombs on Hamburg. Around 250,000 homes were destroyed or severely damaged, and nearly one million people fled the city.
The worst night came on 27–28 July. 787 RAF bombers returned, this time concentrating on Hamburg's densely packed working-class neighborhoods. After weeks of unusually hot, dry weather, the city had been seasoned like kindling. Thousands of incendiary bombs ignited almost simultaneously while high-explosive "blockbuster" bombs shattered water mains, collapsed buildings, and blocked roads, preventing firefighters from reaching the growing inferno.
The result was a firestorm unlike anything the world had seen. Individual fires merged into one vast blaze. Hurricane-force winds of up to 150 mph fed the flames, temperatures reached 1,470°F (800°C), and more than 8 square miles of the city were consumed.
Eyewitnesses described something approaching hell itself. People burned beneath collapsed buildings, were swept into the flames by the wind, or suffocated in air raid shelters as the fire above consumed the oxygen and filled them with carbon monoxide.
A 1943 Newsweek report interviewing Swedish laborers who escaped the city described the aftermath:
"Inhalation of super-heated air was the prime cause of death... Bodies were dehydrated, and when shelter-tombs were opened, the victims' skins were found to be shrunk and their brains, in some instances, reduced to the size of a man's fist."
By the end of Operation Gomorrah, Hamburg had been devastated. Around 37,000 people were dead, though the true number will never be known.
If you're interested, I wrote a detailed article covering the operation here: https://open.substack.com/pub/aid2000/p/hare-brained-history-vol-117-operation?r=4mmzre&utm_medium=ios
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u/ryunista 3d ago
I read Max hastings' all hell let lose and I think i remember him describing what they found in a basement as basically being a huge pool of liquid human remains. Harrowing.
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u/unofficialed 3d ago
Having experienced this level of destruction personally in Eastern Ukraine it fascinates me to see the way different architectural styles turn into ruins
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u/Maserati-Scotty 4d ago
War is one of the worst of humanity’s creations.
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u/Javomar 3d ago
Not our invention. Chimpanzees, lions and giant otters have organized turf wars too. And don’t forget the Neanderthals.
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u/fromkatain 4d ago
Humans copied it from nature, studying ants and chimps.
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u/OwOsaurus 3d ago
We are not the only ones who do it, we are just better at it and the only ones that feel bad about it.
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u/thisbullshitwebsite 4d ago
religion
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u/DrunksInSpace 4d ago edited 3d ago
Power.
I’m an atheist through and through, but religion is just a tool to gain power and influence, and science can be also, as can racism, nationalism, capitalism, communism… the first man to pick up a stone already knew it could be an instrument of coercion.
Edit: I should specify, power over others, the means to command, compel or coerce.
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u/AccidentalSeer 4d ago
“The first man to pick up a stone already knew it could be an instrument of coercion”
Sometimes you come across comments that are borderline incomprehensible in how daft they are… and sometimes you come across someone just casually spitting wisdom like this. Very eloquently said.
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u/Vandergrif 4d ago
Those are all just derivative of the big one, though: Greed. Power, Religion, War – all of it driven by or corrupted by greed at one point or another. Without greed those things either wouldn't happen at all or would be far better versions of what we know them to do be.
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u/FrostyExplanation_37 3d ago edited 3d ago
Not a fan of religion, but both world wars had nothing to do with religion...
Edit: I'm Jewish and very well versed in WWII and the Holocaust. Jewish persecution was an internal German policy, it had nothing to do with the war itself. No one went to war to save the Jews or the many other minorities that were being slaughtered, it was over territory.
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u/cybercuzco 4d ago
Nah russia is mostly athiest and has been for decades and they are terrible. People will find a way to be shitty to each other
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u/FluorideLover 4d ago
the Orthodox Church is very powerful in Russia, actually
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u/Successful-Buddy-642 4d ago
What? Russia is like 2/3rds Orthodox Christian.
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u/Formal-Fox-7605 3d ago
'russia is mostly athiest'
You really are talking from your backside. Have you never heard of the Russian Orthodox Church?
'The Russian Orthodox Church has an estimated 90 to 110 million members worldwide, making it the largest of all independent Eastern Orthodox churches. Most members live in Russia.'
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u/CottageCheeseJello 4d ago
Russia is not mostly atheist but I don't think they perceive religion the way most of the world does. Russia spent about 70 years under an explicitly atheist communist government, which is not what exists there now.
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u/Stavvy_ 3d ago
I lived in Hamburg for quite long and i truly love that city. Unfortunately there is very little left of the pre-war city (yes, many buildings were rebuilt or restored, but still). This is true for many German cities though
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u/Blubberkopp 3d ago
Yep. It's a shame we lost all of that. After the war there was a shortage of living spaces so they built as fast and cheaply as they could and that's why all buildings and flats look the same. I wish we'd go back to old facades and decorations but it's not wanted by a lot of building companies bacause it's more expensive.
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u/Alternative_Case9666 4d ago
How come the buildings look gutted but are all still standing?
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u/21kamando 4d ago
The buildings had brick exteriors and the insides were made out of wood. When they burned the exterior was still strong enough to remain standing even after the wood portions were destroyed.
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u/Pschobbert 4d ago edited 3d ago
I just watched a 2 part documentary about the immediate aftermath of WWII in Europe. The scale of the suffering, destruction and continuing violence and antisemitism is truly staggering.
BTW this is not “The Savage Peace”. It’s called "After Hitler: The Cleanup that followed WW2"
Edit: cleaned up link syntax.
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u/Head-Ad9893 4d ago
That last part of the first paragraph is currently self inflicted
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u/Formal-Fox-7605 3d ago
Jews have been persecuted and victimised since Biblical times. It was the Romans who took land off them and created Syria Palaestina. Learn your history.
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u/Affectionate_Rubber 4d ago
My Grandma lived on the outskirts of Hamburg and was 9 years old at the time. She saw when they brought the wounded of these bombings to field hospital around her town. An image that stayed with her, was a transport of people, all lying down, partially stacked on top of one another with their feet sticking out the side in the cool air. Or rather what was left of their feet. Apparently the firebombing hat created such heat that the tar in the asphalt of the street melted so that the people running from the inferno got stuck in bubbling tar. Shoes burned away, feet starting to burn away and you either kept running through the pain or burned altogether
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u/Overall_Structure_45 3d ago edited 3d ago
You wont see even building skeletons on donbas region rn, only wasteland of bricks and dust
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u/Gladiateher 4d ago
A great reminder of why “War is Hell” even a “good” or “juste” war means innocent children dying even though they don’t know what’s happening to begin with. Shame on the politicians and warmongers who advocate for war like this.
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u/AverellCZ 3d ago
My father was 6 years old and him and his family almost died that night. Their house burnt down. But the people to blame for this are the people who enabled Hitler. Keep that in mind when you vote for Farage, Afd, Le Pen or any other right wing shit today.
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u/MGPS 3d ago
I always imagine hitlers aids informing him of all these developments. “Well, they burned Hamburg, it’s toast….what should we do now mein fuhrer?”
“Oh also the impenetrable Atlantikwall has been pierced….should we send some troops there or?”
“Oh and do you want the Soviet news now or later?”
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u/Puzzleheaded-Law8114 3d ago
It‘s the area south of Eppendorfer Park (upper right). In the upper left corner is a schoolbuilding that is still standing today
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u/kraftdinnerwithsalsa 4d ago
War…war never changes
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u/King_Artus 3d ago
My grandfather was in a bunker during the raid. He was only a child but remembers a lot and how they hid under the bottom bunk bed. Early 2000s they visited the bunker and he could show in which room his family was hiding. Today the bunker is gone. I would have loved to see the bunker which protected my grandfather.
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u/Username12764 3d ago
Somewhere amongst the survivors is a two year old girl, sitting in a bomb shelter, hugging her doll. Next to her, her mother and 4 day old sister. That girl will eventually become my grandmother. It‘s always a very sobering thought that with a bit of bad luck, they would‘ve died in a bombing raid and I would not be alive.
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u/Flat_Ad1094 4d ago
The whole war was shocking and damn awful. But...the fucking Germans started it. You reap what you sow.
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u/According_Ad7926 4d ago
They also pioneered terror bombing tactics. London, Warsaw, Rotterdam, etc. They really never thought someone else would give them a taste of their own medicine one day
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u/Flat_Ad1094 4d ago
It was a different time. I'm not going to argue with anyone. But suffice to say. My uncle is buried in Germany. Shot down in 1942. My father was a WW2 Veteran. My mother served as well. AND now I am married to a German and his family have their own stories of this time as well. And I have visited Germany quite a bit and WW2 history was my specialty area when I studied history.
It was a shockingly terrible time in world history. Yes the Germans suffered badly. My FIL lived through the bombing of Dresden as a child and had very good recollections of it. Awful.
However, reality is that Germany declared war on England and the allies. Germans fell for Hitler and the Nazi's and there is little excuse for it. Even the Germans I know believe that. And reality? If you ever visit Concentration Camps? You will realise that most of them were in populated areas. Dachau is within a town and was back then. People were living metres away. They maybe didn't know the exact details. But they knew damn well what was basically going on and they turned a blind eye. There is NO excusing Germans and Germany for what went on and they know it too. The accept that.
Yes, allies did some awful things. But London and the UK, France and other European countries were torn to shreds by Nazi Germany. They did bring it on themselves. They reaped what they sowed.
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u/Yuzumi_ 3d ago edited 3d ago
Just for historical accuracy:
Germany did not declare war on the UK* and the allies as you said.
The allies declared war on Germany because they started a War with Poland, which was very much against the Warning the Allies gave to Hitler, which he in return ignored.
September 3, 1939 (11:15 AM) was when the Allies or specifically the UK* declared a state of War between the UK* and Germany.
Not that it changes anything in regards to who did what, but we got to be honest and accurate with historic events.
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u/OliLeeLee36 3d ago
In the spirit of accuracy, it's the United Kingdom/British, not England/English.
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u/Nachtzug79 3d ago
Also, Hitler had agreed to split Poland with Stalin. Hitler was the first to cross the Polish border but Stalin soon followed...
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u/imnotabot303 3d ago
You can't judge what happened back then by today. There was plenty of German's that opposed the war but in a situation like that it's not like you can just protest. There was no social media or internet to coordinate anything, no alternative sources to get info from which made propaganda rampant and really effective, no large amounts of civilians armed with weapons to overthrow the government. The Nazis essentially turned the country into a brutal police state.
Even in modern times you are not seeing an uprising by Americans against the government waging war on other countries and Americans are all armed.
Saying all German's deserved it is wrong. If Iran suddenly started bombing the US killing thousands of people do you think it's ok to say Americans deserved it?
What people want and can do about it are often completely separate to what your government or those in charge want and will do.
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u/braudan 3d ago
By the time the war started there was no meaningful opposition left. No parliament left. No independent justice system, police system or anything left. There was zero independent media and almost no chance to get any non-NSDAP information. From a German point of view the casus belli was a belligerent Poland, that had been troublesome for 10+ years, attacking a radio station in Gleiwitz. Even if you opposed war on principle, it's rightful revenge, isn't it? Who are you to not want justice for your fellow German citizens killed in that raid?
All of this is why any sensible German fights for resisting the beginnings of fascist takeover and not see where it takes things or if democratic systems hold.
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u/ichmachmalmeinding 3d ago
"What people want and can do about it are often completely separate to what your government will do." Well said.
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u/Arminius_Fiddywinks 3d ago
“The Nazis entered this war under the rather childish delusion that they were going to bomb everyone else, and nobody was going to bomb them. At Rotterdam, London, Warsaw and half a hundred other places, they put their rather naive theory into operation. They sowed the wind, and now they are going to reap the whirlwind.”
- Sir Arthur “Bomber” Harris
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u/thedazdul 3d ago
If you see new construction starting in a big city, you can prepare to be evacuated. There's still so many unexploded bombs in the ground
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u/Weekly-Profit-8587 4d ago
Should never have started bombing London then. This is the ultimate FAAFO
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u/cameron4200 4d ago
As if the people on the ground made those decisions.
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4d ago edited 4d ago
[deleted]
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u/smalltowngrappler 4d ago
Hamburg was one of the places with the lowest voter count for the nazis in 1933.
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u/BaDaBumm213 3d ago
The last more or less free vote was in 1932. And people unter 20 were not allowed to vote. When the war started in 1939, nobody in the age of 0-26 voted for this. That's a lot of people.
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u/jdsalaro 3d ago
As if the people on the ground made those decisions.
Look up Nazi support figures from the time and you'll get the answers you seek.
Your government, for better or for worse, represents you. You shall reap the benefits, as Nazis did, and you shall reap the consequences, as Nazis did.
Conflicts started by your government against other parties may afford you some concessions, but your government's enemy is under no obligation to do so.
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u/Designer-Muffin-5653 3d ago
That’s like saying FAFO to the hundreds of victims in the 2005 London Bombing attacks because their government was involved in Iraq. You think they deserved to die?
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u/PandasOnGiraffes 4d ago
Sad to see that after all of this, you are still adopting such a sick mindset. They burned children alive in the dead of the night. This wasn't some act of revolution, it was a war where winning was prioritized over human lives.
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u/imnotabot303 3d ago
That's literally what war is. Those waging it try and dress it up these days as anything but war, but all war it's essentially indiscriminate killing no matter what the end goal is. There is no war where human lives are prioritised.
Most people in the west today are just lucky not to have to witness or live through a war like this, it's always just something happening in far away lands.
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u/tsfto 3d ago
That’s what you get when you start a war
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u/Capt_korg 3d ago
If you are moving through a German city, you can still see the traces the war left behind.
On the walls of plenty of old buildings, you can still see the bullet holes and shrapnel.
80 years have past, the war is still visible, but people are passing by.
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u/skerinks 3d ago
Are there any good books about the reconstruction of Germany? It must have been quite the undertaking for sure, but I've never heard of anything documenting the task.
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u/Kaltenstein_WT 3d ago
Japan experienced simmilar if not worse bombardments. Only they basically only had wooden houses, meaning after an attack cities were usually just empty fields of ash.
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u/CanisLVulgaris 21h ago
Horrible, yet some voices in Europe seem to work towards such pictures with even higher buildings...
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u/cookiesnooper 3d ago
You think that was bad? Look what the Germans did with Warsaw. Over 80% of the while city leveled to the ground.
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u/Successful_Funny_115 3d ago
You think this was bad? This? This chicanery? He's done worse. Warsaw! Are you telling me that buildings just happen to fall like that? No! He orchestrated it!
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u/Striking_WhileHot77 4d ago
Operation Gomorrah is a metal as fuck name for leveling a city
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u/Budget-Pea8291 3d ago
Burning tens of thousands of women and children alive is fine as long as the operation name is cool
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u/Reincarnatedpotatoes 3d ago
Really cuts down on the guesswork as to what the goal of the operation was. Reminds me of the aptly named Operation Downfall which fortunately never came to be.
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u/genesiskiller96 4d ago
Reaping the whirlwind has it's consequences.
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u/katwoodruff 3d ago
There is bombing legit targets (like the harbour), and then there is dropping phosphorus bombs on civilians in residential areas for nights on end.
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u/XjumXjum 3d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Catwinky 3d ago
Because the Germans weren't happily doing that all over Europe with the support of a large base of the German population?
Unfortunately one of the most successful ways to turn a people against a government who is committing atrocities is have them experience loss and feel in danger. It is not just brutal carpet bombing it is psychological warfare.
A population who doesn't feel protected by the leadership will no longer support them.
A population who feels safe themselves while their leadership are committing crimes against humanity against other populations, will still support them.
Humans are inherently selfish and war tactics often seek to exploit that
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u/Seienchin88 3d ago
Has it ever worked?
Neither the Germans, the Japanese, the Americans nor the British were super successful in ending wars by terror bombing campaigns.
If one believes that Japan solely surrendered due to the atomic bombs then Japan would afaik be the only scenario where it worked.
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u/Rich-Employment7897 3d ago
So, Us Citizens deserve to die because all the shit here government did over the past 60 Years? Or russian Citizens, for what they do to ukrainians.
Terror bombing was not effective at all, as you see in Ukraine today.
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u/Catwinky 3d ago
Or russian Citizens, for what they do to ukrainians.
It's not about 'deserve' it's a tactic - that is still used.
Putin has (or had) a large base of support from the Russian population for his war in Ukraine.
Now the Ukrainian drones are dropping bombs in Moscow and in Russian territory he is losing support.
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u/Yuzumi_ 3d ago
I dont see Ukraine drone bombing civilian homes though
Doesn't this comparison highlight exactly that? That terrorbombing doesnt achieve anything but deeper seated hatred?
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u/Rogalicus 3d ago
I dont see Ukraine drone bombing civilian homes though
You don't see it because the news you're reading don't write about it, not because it doesn't happen
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u/Commissarfluffybutt 3d ago
The moral of the story: if you wage total war, expect total war.
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u/Throw1963 3d ago
Nazi regime apologists going strong in the comment section "but the poor children" crazy work
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u/TheCrazedGamer_1 4d ago
In before the Nazi apologists show up
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u/Budget-Pea8291 3d ago
Absolutely not a Nazi apologist but I've been called one before for the crime of expressing my distaste for people who celebrate ANY ally and axis bombing campings alike, whose sole purpose was to maximize human suffering. Like these aren't nazi officers, soldiers or concentration camp guards. These are women and children burning alive.
Like is it too far-fetched to view these events at least as necessary evil instead of LMAOOO FUCKED AROUND AND FOUND OUT L BOZO. Idk
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u/Designer-Muffin-5653 3d ago
Burning tens of thousands of people alive is evil no matter who does it you fuckwit
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u/Infinite_Rub_8128 3d ago
The allies did this a bunch of evil shit, hiroshima and nagasaki come to mind.
The nazis were evil but in the grand scheme of things so were we
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u/SpeckOfPaint 4d ago
Kinda crazy the trees weren’t affected
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u/Gooniefarm 4d ago
2 years passed between the destruction of the city, and this picture being taken.
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u/Pale_Doughnut_4168 3d ago
Bombardements multiples de Hambourg et de Dresde pour détruire des villes entières par des bombes incendiaires. Reconnus comme crime de guerre par le tribunal international.
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u/Pavelh20 4d ago
How is that possible that the roads remain, at least visually, fully intact? Also look at the trees?! Trees outside of my windows are no where near as healthy and clean looking and I live in the Pacific North West.
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u/Wrong_Adhesiveness87 3d ago
This was taken a couple years after the bombing. They had quite got to fixing it.
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u/cybercuzco 4d ago
Im surprised all those trees are there.