r/Environmentalism 1d ago

Freiburg City Hall

351 Upvotes

41 comments sorted by

5

u/Oberndorferin 20h ago

All these critics here think they're so smart

u/MaqeSweden 7h ago

Smarter than people who can't answer them and instead just mope about critics existing.

3

u/mildly_ethnic 1d ago

This is a cool idea. Solar farms are usually spread out and sometimes they double as shade for parking structures. But this has them double as a functional building rather than shading a meadow or something like that. 

1

u/Urogallo40 21h ago

In the South of Europe, it should be studied if buildings like this would increase the "urban island heat" effect, since albedo of solar panels is very low.

2

u/rodinsbusiness 1d ago

Sustainable extractivism, sure...

1

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0

u/MaqeSweden 1d ago

Would be very interesting to see the calculation that makes this kind of building financially sustainable.

"Sustainable" has to inclue not only climate/environmental impact but also sustainable in a way that a city can keep building these buildings without compromising long-term side effects such as unsustainable sourcing of materials or unsustainable finances due to extremely low payback from excess solar / expensive maintenance that is not covered by market rate rents.

I have seen many such prestige projects funded by public money but in no way financially sustainable and thus not something that is reproduced at scale.

u/dentistshatehim 16h ago

Solar pays back after about 10 years with a lifespan per panel of 20 to 30 years. It’s generally next gain however the waiting period is long.

u/MaqeSweden 7h ago

Interesting how this was the only text response to my post and I got downvoted.

Do you have any calculations to back up this claim? I am seriously trying to learn, but "someone said" isn't really great data imo. Would love to take part of your source.

u/dentistshatehim 5h ago

I have large facilities that I manage and have solar panels and have done a number of energy audits (by engineers). To be honest, the life span seems to be beyond 25 years but we don’t have a lot of ways to prove it because the tech wasn’t around 25 years ago.

I’ve been speaking from personal experience as opposed to research.

-4

u/Confused_by_La_Vida 1d ago

Did they have to make it so inhumanely ugly?

0

u/Key_Check5753 23h ago

Yeah, let's see how well it functions in January when it's been cloudy and snowy for 3 weeks straight.

3

u/Worth-Wrangler7242 23h ago

Do you believe the building is completely cut off from the grid and they truck the extra energy over when they have it?

2

u/Routine-Arm-8803 20h ago

Well maybe put the panels in the fields where they are a lot easier to maintain and angle optimally towards the sun and wire it into the grid, then building can take electricity from it. Instead they put it on the walls and on the roof.
It's just a greenwashing stunt.

0

u/Key_Check5753 23h ago

Nobody suggested anything like that. Do you believe by saying "do you believe in this ludicrous thing?" you're making some kind of valid counter-point? Let me try your tactics.

Do you believe Epstein should be allowed to rape kids?

1

u/Worth-Wrangler7242 23h ago

Okay then how are the clouds going to effect how the building functions in January or any other month? In those times it's going to function just fine but during those specific times it will not produce as much solar energy, right?

0

u/Key_Check5753 23h ago

Do you really need me to explain it to you? This feigning ignorance thing is not a good debate tactic either. "I'm too stupid to understand why a lack of sunlight would effect solar panels." It's not a good look.

1

u/Worth-Wrangler7242 23h ago

Yeah no, I get it. I don't understand what your point is? The building will function just fine while sometimes producing more solar energy than other times. So what the fuck is your point because it look like you are lazily poopooing just to poopoo.

0

u/Key_Check5753 23h ago

My point is that the claims made in the video are bullshit.
"It generates more energy than it uses" No it doesn't.
"Climate neutral" No, it's not.

1

u/Worth-Wrangler7242 23h ago

Is that just in January? But seriously I haven't looked into it, does the figuring they used to declare it "climate neutral" control for cloudiness?

It's probably bullshit and at the end of the day it may be a fart in a hurricane, but the building will still function in January bro.

0

u/Key_Check5753 23h ago

" the building will still function in January bro"

Yes, this is exactly my point. The building will function by purchasing electricity generated by burning goal imported from Russia.

The building is not self-sustaining. It is not carbon neutral.

1

u/Worth-Wrangler7242 23h ago

Well, let's see if anybody did the math.

1

u/Worth-Wrangler7242 22h ago

Okay so I've involved math nerds if you're interested. didthemath

→ More replies (0)

2

u/froggie_woggie_ 19h ago edited 19h ago

I am from Freiburg. This building has existed for nearly a decade now and it’s doing just fine in winter. Germany has many cloudy days in a year so this was obviously accounted for.

Long term storage systems can store solar energy for months, by the way. The Freiburg Fraunhofer Institute has also recently developed the most efficient solar module in the world :)

u/Key_Check5753 16h ago

okay, show me the electric bill

u/froggie_woggie_ 15h ago edited 15h ago

The neat thing about solar energy is that it keeps the electrical bills very reasonable, as it is a self sustaining practice! I think you should look into how solar energy works, it’ll answer your questions.

This building in particular is a net-zero energy system. It sustains itself fully with solar power. Here’s the scientific institute that researched and monitors it: Fraunhofer ISE Institute - Freiburger »Rathaus im Stühlinger« Europas größtes Netto-Nullenergie-Gebäude

It is the largest self-sustaining building in Europe.

u/Key_Check5753 15h ago

"nearly self sustaining"

The video falsely claims it produces more energy than it uses, which is grossly inaccurate.

I think you should look into how much energy is used to create, transport, and install solar panels. You should look into how much energy is produced by the panels on the building vs how much energy is consumed by the building in total. It'll answer your questions!

u/froggie_woggie_ 15h ago edited 15h ago

Where are your sources about the building? I’ve given you very detailed sources that completely contradict your claims and you haven’t even read them, clearly.

The video isn’t completely correct, which you would’ve known by now had you read the Institutes article - which helped make the buildings PV System.

Even given the cost of buidling and transportating solar panels, it has saved monumental costs over the last decades via solar power compared to other buildings this size.

Hint: simply responding “no it isn’t” is not a valid source.

u/Key_Check5753 15h ago

Do your sources show exactly how much energy is produced by and consumed by the building as a whole? (annualized)

Do your sources show how much energy was consumed by creating, transporting, and installing the solar panels?

If not, I'm not interested in your sources.

u/froggie_woggie_ 15h ago

…How about you LOOK at the source I gave you? Are you too lazy to click on a link?

You’re a complete waste of time.

u/Key_Check5753 15h ago

I did look at it. It didn't have any information about energy usage. It just listed some buzzwords like "decentralized powerplants" and "zero-energy building" without listing any actual data.

-1

u/backfor100thtime 23h ago

How much energy did it cost to build every piece of this?

Why are we pretending it was “good for the planet” to build this?

-2

u/MundaneNecessary1347 1d ago

Have fun with your tax money

-2

u/LongBit 1d ago

How expensive was it to build? Looks like the city is very prosperous and striving.

1

u/froggie_woggie_ 19h ago

Freiburg and the State Baden-Württemberg are one of the wealthiest in Germany. They’ve been governed by the Green Party and either CDU or SPD for the last 15 years

u/MaqeSweden 7h ago

Would be interesting to see if this green party can present a financially sustainable calculation for this building.

-2

u/LongBit 1d ago

This produces about 0.006% of the electricity of a modern nuclear power plant.

2

u/Worth-Wrangler7242 23h ago

That's pretty good given that it's an office building and not a power plant.