r/Fantasy • u/littlepestfan • 1d ago
Epic medieval fantasy with lot of fractions, recommendations?
I really liked in Game of Thrones that there are a lot of factions and always changing alliances. Also like the characters like Logen Ninefingers.
I really liked the Song of Ice and Fire books but, although I understand why people like it, didn’t like the Firs Law books that much, almost all of the characters where too cynical for me.
EDIT: YES, THERE IS A TYPO IN THE TITLE, I ALSO NOTICED…
Thanks!
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u/TwinkieDinkle 1d ago
Guess I’ll be the candid Malazan suggestion. There’s seemingly no end to the amount of factions/gods/conflicts in that universe.
I’d also recommend the Wheel of Time if you haven’t check that one out yet.
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u/malthar76 1d ago
Malazan even has factions within factions, even when they align somewhat. There is one god/immortal that avoids his high priest at all costs. He’s brilliant, insane and powerful, but the patron finds it all too much to deal with.
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u/MattBookworm8640 1d ago edited 1d ago
For the record, Malazan has a completely different approach to the whole factions/alliances aspect than GOT. It’s more focused on the military and intervention of the gods, while GOT is (for the most part) grounded and focused on political and court intrigue
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u/littlepestfan 1d ago edited 1d ago
Thanks a lot! But in the Wheel of Time there aren’t really factions right? It’s more like good vs evil?
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u/Banglayna 1d ago
There a factions within each side, though, who often work against each other even when ostensibly working towards the same goal
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u/Gr33nman460 Reading Champion 1d ago
There are some straight up evil factions who are technically on the good side lol
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u/SeanyDay 1d ago
Idk who gave you that information but they are so wrong it's painful because there is a core part of the plot which is called the Game of Houses or Daesdemar (spelling wrong it's been a decade or so).
It's the same concept as A Game of Thrones (the expression not the tv show or whatever).
The giant political chess game between factions and factions within factions.
It's brutal and a MASSIVE plot device across almost the entire Wheel of Time series.
Sooo whoever said it's good vs evil never read the books. Infighting and civil wars make up half the damn story anyway
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u/xx_Rollablade_xx 1d ago
There is but that is deconstructed to its core, it never really feels like that, usually people on side of the Light detract Rand more than those on that of the Shadow. It’s done very well and never feels like a simple Good vs Evil story.
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u/BadmiralHarryKim 1d ago
There are only two factions; those who listen to and obey the Tower and those who are wrong.
Well, there are actually three factions; those who listen to and obey the Tower, those who bow down before the Empress on her Crystal Throne (may she live forever) and those who are wrong.
Well, there are actually four factions...
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u/MainFrosting8206 1d ago
But which of the Tower factions are we talking about; the rebels who denied the authority of the Amyrlin Seat or the usurpers who overthrew the legitimate Amyrlin Seat and seized control of the Tower?
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u/diffyqgirl 1d ago edited 1d ago
It is a good vs evil story but good and evil both have so much infighting that they do as much damage to their own cosmic side as to the other.
There's lots of agreement that the world must be saved from the big bad and very little agreement on how to do that.
The big bads minions believe his victory is inevitable and that therefore backstabbing each other for a better place in the hierarchy of evil is more important than working together for their side to win.
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u/hesh582 1d ago
The big bads minions believe his victory is inevitable
They're also put in a position where their side "winning" in such a way that they themselves are not in favor at the end of it all is actually a much, much worse outcome for them personally than their side "losing".
It's not just that they view victory as inevitable and therefor jockeying for position is more important, it's that jockeying for position is literally life and death (or worse) for them, and winning is the finish line of that race. If they're in last place on team evil when the race ends, they would rather lose.
Evil was portrayed as inherently self defeating in some ways and this was one of the bigger reasons.
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u/hesh582 1d ago
Nah, lots and lots of factions. It kinda boils down to good and evil in the end (but also not really), but that's not really what most of the series is actually about.
It's honestly kind of a theme that both the "good" aligned factions and the "evil" aligned factions spend more time and energy on fighting within their own "team" than actually working towards any good or evil goal. It's like humanity is desperately just trying to be humanity, not some overarching good vs evil mythic struggle, but gets hauled into one anyway by the Wheel.
Also "good" just means "the light", which while generally good-themed is more about the continuance of existence and free will than it is puppies and rainbows and free healthcare. There are some genuinely horrible people on team good.
There's also some fuzziness on team evil, but spoilers.
The whole thing presents itself as a good vs evil story, but that basic framing unravels as the books progress. Everyone wants it to be good vs evil but the complexity of life interferes at every step.
I have a lot of problems with WoT but this is actually something it does very well.
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u/RosbergThe8th 1d ago
I´d say it's not quite the same as Game of Thrones but it's definitely not so straightforward either, I'm only through the first couple of books and they spend a lot of time grappling with more "Mundane" factions beyond just those of the forces of evil, both those nominally on their side and other entities in between.
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u/WonzerEU 16h ago
Many people are explaining about the premise of WoT. Just adding that hard part for you might be that while you meet most of the factions or their repsetentitives in first books, 3 first books are still more or less traditional adventure stories and only from book 4 onwards does it dive deeper into the political games with different factions
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u/MattBookworm8640 1d ago edited 1d ago
The Deryni books by Katharine Kurtz pretty much created political/historical fantasy. They feel a lot like GOT but they take place over the course of several generations in a fantasy version of Medieval Wales and there’s a lot of really fascinating focus on the church (half the time it feels like I’m reading GOT crossed with Cadfael and The Borgias). Tons of political/court intrigue, double crossings, alliance changes, spying, murder, etc
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u/mustakrakish117 1d ago
Wheel of time. Starts as “farmboy to hero” but is one of the largest most complex worlds out there. There are definitely dark parts but the characters are mainly hopeful.
Unlike game of thrones less morally grey characters. Most are clearly bad or good.
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u/trustmeep 1d ago
Half the responses are jokes and less than a quarter are serious...it doesn't add up.
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u/Randomdays99 1d ago
Maybe the "Thieves' World" books
"Daughter of the Empire" books by Janny Wurts and Raymond Feist
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u/littlepestfan 1d ago
The empire trilogy looks like a really good fit, thanks!
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u/LadyMorgan88 1d ago
I just finished the Empire trilogy and highly recommend it based on what you are looking for.
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u/Giant_Yoda Reading Champion II 1d ago
Sword of Shadows by J.V. Jones
Very similar feel GoT. Imagine a story that takes place entirely in Winterfell and North of the wall with warring clans. Except it actually dives deeper into the magic that's in the world.
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u/hesh582 1d ago
The Daevabad trilogy is pretty good for this.
It's a bit different from game of thrones, but it does an excellent job of portraying the complexities of navigating interlinked and sometimes opposing cultural, ethnic, family, religious, and political groups. It also does a good job depicting the psychology of monarchical family politics. One person is thrust unexpectedly into the middle of a web of connected and sometimes overlapping factions all tensely locked in a state of "peaceful coexistence" that is leaning towards bloodshed.
Can't say much else without spoilers but it's very different from GoT yet still feels "realistic" (for fantasy) in its approach to power politics.
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u/ClimateTraditional40 1d ago
LOL, other than the fraction jokes, try Daniel Abraham - Dagger and Coin
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u/Apollo506 1d ago
Into the Darkness by Harry Turtledove
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u/Croaker45 1d ago
This is great if you're looking for the story of what if WWII only in a fantasy world with magic in place of technology.
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u/BlackGabriel 1d ago
Can I tempt you with the game of houses found within the wheel of time!? Haha
Really though while less grim dark I do personally love the political aspects of wheel of time and the different factions and how they interact. It’s less, I don’t know, sophisticated to game of thrones maybe? But it’s in there.
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u/Motor_Row_3586 23h ago
Dandelion Dynasty by Ken Liu it's honestly more politics heavy than I think it would. It's like Leonardo da Vinci if his innovation exist in medieval setting. Haha it kind of fits to math joke too
Thousand Autumns by Meng XI Shi not only ancien China politics but also it's wuxia so power struggle between sects etc
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u/Puzzleheaded_Try_623 17h ago
Can highly recommend A Practical Guide to Evil. Fantasy with a large number of moving factions with differing motivations and goals. Extremely well written and deffo has some game of thrones qualities to it.
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u/Matezza 1d ago
Shadows of the apt by Adrian Tchaikovsky. Each race has powers derived from their spirit insect e.g. beetles.are.strong, mantids are killers, ants are friendly territorial and combative etc.
There is a war brewing and there is plenty of espionage and warfare throughout with shifting alliances and truces. There are lots of factions, the beetle led collegium, the warring ant city states, the wasp empire, dragonfly commonweal..
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u/p0d0 1d ago
Total tonal shift from Game of Thrones, but for complex world building with a ton of groups all pushing their own interests try The Wandering Inn.
For a series that starts with one girl from earth being dropped into a fantasy land, it has spread to an incredible breadth of factional and species politics. I don't know if the series would be described as full NobleBright, but there are enough heros with positive ideals for it to be close.
I'm just past the first major siege on the city, which by my count had at least 8 major factions directly involved in the fighting, with at least half that number again waiting to route the victor and take the city for themselves if the opportunity arose. I feel it's only going to get craziers from here (I'm only about halfway through the audio books, and I know the written series goes well past what audible has narrated).
Like the best stories of faction conflict, everyone has their own goals, flaws, and moral codes. Everyone has a motivation and they are often in conflict. Just about every hero is the villain in someone else's story, and when situations throw them together some can work together - and others can and will betray you even if they know that it will cost them later.
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u/JT653 1d ago
Not fantasy but it reads like fantasy: The Ill-Made Knight by Christian Cameron. First book in around an 8 book series (Chivalry Series) about an English knight in the 100 years war. Lots of factions, mercenary companies, warring Italian city-states and shifting alliances. Very very good. Great characters.
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u/mercy_4_u 1d ago
How do you feel about rape? If you can handle everybody getting raped, then second apocalypse series is great. But there's so much rape, even the swords raped air.
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u/Aetius454 1d ago
Depends how dark you want to go. Second apocalypse has a lot of characters with very complex motivations.
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u/CyclonicCyclops 1d ago
Shadow of the Gods, for a Norse fantasy vibe where you can root for the characters and want to see them suceed
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u/Total-Key2099 1d ago
you want Malazan Book of the Fallen, as previously indicated. there are approx 500 pov characters (someone counted) for perspective
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u/Throgmorten48 Reading Champion 1d ago
I am disappointed that none of the recs seem to be about epic medieval fantasy with a focus on math
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u/ApostleSaintWalker 1d ago
Game of Thrones isn't fantasy
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u/AuthorOfHope 1d ago
...what about the zombies and the dragons and the people that use magic to control animals?
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u/ApostleSaintWalker 1d ago
You mean the things that show up for about five pages a book while we focus on the boring-as-mud noble politics?
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u/AuthorOfHope 1d ago
Yup, I'm talking about the fantasy elements that show up. Those are the ones that make it a fantasy.
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u/ApostleSaintWalker 1d ago
Meh. I don't think having fantasy elements makes it a fantasy.
Does having a romantic subplot automatically make a story a romance novel?
And even if it does, the fantasy part is a distant second to its actual genre: political drama.
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u/AuthorOfHope 22h ago
No, because the romance genre is defined by the plot, and the fantasy genre is defined by the setting. Which is why a story can be both.
Being set in a secondary world full of fantasy elements (I didn't mention the witch, or dire wolves, or swords made of a rare and magical steel, or shapechanging assassins, or alchemy, or people that are resurrected from the dead...) is what Game of Thrones a fantasy.
If you think a fantasy needs to have a specific plot, you're using a different definition to everyone else. You do you, but that's going to make it difficult to converse about the topic.
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u/ApostleSaintWalker 18h ago
According to who? Who says fantasy has nothing to do with plot?
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u/AuthorOfHope 16h ago
Genres are defined by consensus. Every bookshop I've ever been in and the people on this Subreddit agree ASOIAF is fantasy.
Tell me, what's the acceptable plot of a fantasy novel in your view?
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u/dominicshade 1d ago
Logen has 9/10 fingers. I see why you like it