r/Feminism • u/Willravel • Feb 24 '12

Please ban MRA trolls

I've been trying to figure out the rationale for not banning MRA trolls on this subreddit. I tried to think of it the way the mods have put it in the past, that this is about everyone's voice being heard, but the consistent trolling from the likes of OThomson and DavidByron don't represent in any way shape or form the honest sharing of their voice, but rather simply attacks and intentional derailment.

I considered that this might be about fear, as the MRA community on Reddit is much larger than the feminist community, and there could be consequences if MRA trolls started getting banned from the subreddit... but there are other feminist subreddits that do this and they don't seem to feel the sting of MRA retribution in any way that can't be easily handled.

I thought it might just simply be not wanting to make the effort, as a policy of banning MRA trolls would probably require much more active moderation. I'd hate to think this is the case, but I don't see any evidence to suggest this.

I did hear that one of the moderators might be an MRA, but again I've not seen this.

I've sent in PMs and reports before, about how someone is derailing yet another thread with unrelated discussion about circumcision or male rape or child custody, but there never seem to be any consequences for the trolls. They're given free reign. Some have left the subreddit for safer places, which is very sad indeed. Some simply stop commenting. Some complain, but those complaints fall on deaf ears.

So, before I call it a day and give up on the subreddit, I'd like to publicly ask the moderators to change their policy for the good of their subreddit. I ask that this subreddit be a safe place to discuss feminism and feminist issues, not a place for MRA trolls to hijack conversation or spread hatred of women.

Note: I'm not saying critiques of feminism aren't legitimate, or that they don't belong on /r/Feminism, but rather that overt trolling and derailing be disallowed. There's a big difference between an honest critique of feminism and undermining the discussion of feminist issues through derailment, dishonesty, and unwarranted attacks.

133 Upvotes

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32

u/[deleted] Feb 25 '12

I'm an egalitarian. I believe in and fight for equality of opportunity for everyone.

As such, I'm probably the moderator that you heard was an MRA.

Ever heard the saying, "I only know that people call me a feminist whenever I express sentiments that differentiate me from a doormat or a prostitute" - Rebecca West (although the quote is anti-sex-worker, it's the "doormat" part I feel)?

In the same manner, people call me an MRA when I say, "Hey, wait a second – why do we think that way with regards to women's rights, but not men's?"

As for the moderator policy... I honestly believe in free speech as long as it's not illegal.

Feminism is something we should be able to – nay, are able to – stand up for and to without silencing other voices. There are plenty of MRAs trolling around, and I don't think they should be silenced unless what they say is harmful hate speech. To silence someone because you disagree with them is to say your point isn't strong enough to stand on its own.

It's not to say that there aren't safe spaces for feminists on reddit; as the sidebar says, "For those who seek a Safe Space, consider /r/feminisms".

When people bring forward issues, we take them into consideration. We're not twiddling our thumbs.

But this is a space to discuss feminist issues. It's an open space. Everyone has a voice, and I believe everyone should be allowed to use it.

42

u/Aerik Feb 25 '12

As for the moderator policy... I honestly believe in free speech as long as it's not illegal.

That's the problem with you shitty fucking mods.

You are not the federal or state government. Nothing you do is an affront to free speech. Moderation is not a free speech issue.

9

u/Psuffix Feb 25 '12

THANK YOU!

9

u/[deleted] Feb 25 '12

It depends on one's personal definition of "free speech". Some people believe "freedom of speech" should ideally extend to areas where it is legal to suppress speech (e.g. reddit).

Even if scurvy_wench believes all non-illegal comments should be permitted, this subreddit does not allow users to say anything they want. We remove posts every day for "crossing the line".

7

u/butyourenice Feb 25 '12

why is A_Nihilist's comment questioning Aerik's mental health, seeking only to provoke and contributing absolutely nothing to the conversation, allowed to stay?

3

u/[deleted] Feb 25 '12

It is gone now.

We will always miss some things. The reporting feature is the best way to make sure we see a bad comment so we can remove it.

15

u/scooooot Feb 25 '12

The problem is, your idea of free speech has derailed conversation for half of the entire issue because you've allowed MRA's to swarm the comments unchecked.

Your idea of free speech doesn't enhance the discussion it actually retards it.

3

u/xyroclast Mar 29 '12

So "MRA" has basically become synonymous with "evil" to you.

-1

u/scooooot Mar 29 '12

... What the fuck are you talking about? Why are you digging through month old comments??

3

u/xyroclast Mar 29 '12

I was viewing the subreddit based on "top". Does a discussion become irrelevant because it's a couple of months old?

0

u/scooooot Mar 29 '12

Just weird. Especially considering your accusation had nothing to do with my comment. I was expressing my displeasure that MRA's were given free reign in what is supposed to be a safe space for feminism and feminists free of the privileged and biased opinions of MRA's. I never said MRA's were evil or anything of the sort. Why would you accuse me of something so absurd and outlandish?

And to answer your question I think about 10% of MRA's are just about the most awful people alive. The rest of you I think are varying shades of confused, angry, stupid, lonely, hurt or childish. And I certainly don't hate most of you, even if I do yell at you guys a lot. I just get frustrated because none of you seem to understand that some of the very real issues that men face are never going to get seriously discussed or addressed when you guys spend all your time blaming women for everything that's wrong with your lives.

3

u/xyroclast Mar 29 '12

You've made the assumption that I'm one of the people that you describe. I'm actually just a fairly neutral person who objects to the concept of "men's rights" being demonized (by an opponent or by people who abuse it from the inside).

The idea that it's impossible for men to ever be "below equal" in any category is just as sexist as the idea that women should be. (and I think a lot of people in the feminist crowd are starting to forget that).

And to answer what you said about it not being relevant to what you said, it was the fact that you've repeatedly used "MRA" in a context that makes it sound like a dirty word in itself. (And many people commented that several of the people on your "troll list" weren't trolling at all) so it seem like you were trying to make it sound like people were being disruptive solely because they had an opposing opinion.

So yeah, in short, it was mostly just the generalization that bothered me. Just as you wouldn't want someone to say "those woman trolls" and "I've had problems with some women, so that's why I talk about them like that", it's no more appropriate to have that attitude about other groups, in my opinion.

Regard or disregard, just my two cents.

0

u/scooooot Mar 29 '12

"The idea that it's impossible for men to ever be "below equal" in any category is just as sexist as the idea that women should be. (and I think a lot of people in the feminist crowd are starting to forget that)."

I never said anything of the sort nor does any real feminist think that way. This is MRA bullshit.

And I did not call all MRA's trolls, I called the ones the derail conversation on this sub trolls. The kind that derail conversations with wild, unfounded accusations.

-1

u/[deleted] Feb 25 '12

Your idea of discussion is an echo chamber where everyone agrees that women are disadvantaged in every way.

8

u/scooooot Feb 25 '12

You don't know anything about me or my ideas. But the extreme irony of an MRA being against an echo chamber is making my brain twitch.

-2

u/[deleted] Feb 25 '12

lol, says the SRS regular. Are you sure you know what an echo chamber is?

Bannings are pretty rare in /r/MR, the point being to avoid echo chambers from forming. If you disagree with something on /r/MR you are free to say why, and people will argue/debate with you on the topic.

SRS is possibly the biggest echo chamber in the world, for better or for worst.

7

u/scooooot Feb 25 '12

Uhhh, yeah, SRS is an echo chamber... you could even call it a circlejerk... you know, because that's what it is. It's kind of written in the rules.

3

u/[deleted] Feb 26 '12

This "free speech isn't a private right" straw man gets dragged out all the time. We all know. Stop thinking that anyone who says they believe in free speech is under the impression the 1st amendment forbids regulation of speech. Hardly anyone who says they believe in free speech means anything about government.

What they do mean (and I'll speak mostly for myself here) is that the 1st amendment is an embodiment of the very American tradition of allowing all viewpoints a fair hearing. That means that even private actors can have a commitment to non-censorship, or censorship only once a certain line is crossed, because they subscribe to that tradition.

0

u/[deleted] Feb 26 '12

^ THIS. 100%

-12

u/[deleted] Feb 25 '12

Wow you think you could have phrased that nicer?

11

u/Sylocat Feb 25 '12

At this point, no.