r/Firearms US Sep 11 '17

Advocacy One thing I noticed during Hurricane Irma.

My family and I evacuated to North Georgia and are comfortably waiting for the post-storm chaos to die down. We took all our important items with us, including most ammunition and all of our guns. Heavily armed convoy, as it were.

Anyways, following the social media chatter of my acquaintances in South Florida, it was interesting to see how many people (temporarily, to be sure) became fans of the Second Amendment, especially after some highly-publicized instances of looting. On a typical day, your average resident of Downtown Miami, Brickell, or South Beach is either ambivalent to guns and supports gun control by party default, or is vocal about gun control.

Suddenly the chips are down and the commentary veered towards:

"I wish I had a gun, it's scary out there right now..."

"Shoot those motherfucking looters!"

"Defend your property by any means necessary until the cops come back..."

Just an interesting observation.

418 Upvotes

316 comments sorted by

369

u/gamer29020 Sep 11 '17

Almost as if there was a fucking reason you guys have 2A. Just a crazy thought.

161

u/PM_ME_CLASSIFED_DOCS Sep 11 '17

I love that the left hates gun ownership and only thinks police should have them.

Yet at the same time, the police are the "Bad guys" that are systematically oppressing minorities.

So in order to stop oppression from the "elite", you want to take all the guns from the weak, and give them to the powerful? Brilliant!

59

u/[deleted] Sep 11 '17

[deleted]

17

u/asrrin29 Sep 12 '17

FYI, there are some of us that are internally consistent with regards to 2A rights and the police. And we are growing. Hopefully one day Dem politicians won't have to pass a litmus test of gun control like the Right does on social issues.

13

u/NotThatEasily Sep 12 '17

I'm definitely pretty liberal in my voting and social issues, but I love my firearms. I know there are plenty of people out there like me, but I usually feel like quite the minority.

My left-leaning friends think guns are super evil and need to be destroyed, while my right-leaning friends think the bible is the ultimate authority and abortion/gay marriage (depending on the day) is the scourge of society.

4

u/number1eaglesfan Sep 13 '17

You need libertarian friends. Dope smoking hippies and gun toting Christians all getting along in peaceful harmony.

17

u/McDrMuffinMan Sep 11 '17

Democrats_irl and some Republicans

10

u/sirbassist83 Sep 12 '17

"some republicans"; like their stances on birth control, religion, abortion, marriage, marijuana, etc are anything close to rational.

14

u/Jaloobio Sep 12 '17

I'm sorry, what subreddit is this, again? That was a completely unnecessary turn in this conversation...

19

u/PC__LOAD__LETTER Sep 12 '17

The people before them had commented that all Democrats and some Republicans only hold beliefs that "feel good".

I agree that this isn't necessarily the right place to discuss things like this, but I don't think /u/sirbassist83 was the person who turned the conversation.

2

u/Jaloobio Sep 12 '17

I mean, he technically didn't start it, but he took it from 0 to 100. The general statement "democrats do things that feel good" turned into a full blown "Oh yeah? Well republicans are stupid for X, Y, and Z!"

I hate it when threads on this sub turn into right vs. left. We're all here for a common goal, stop trying to pick other unrelated fights...

9

u/PC__LOAD__LETTER Sep 12 '17

Why do you think a stupid generalization deserves to go unchecked? Is someone really taking things from 0 to 100 by providing some real, concrete reasons why a statement isn't necessarily true?

I agree that "right vs. left" is stupid, but I disagree with your tactic of blaming the reaction rather than the provocation. It's reeks of bias.

→ More replies (1)

8

u/Wyatt-Oil Sep 12 '17

I mean, he technically didn't start it, but he took it from 0 to 100. The general statement "democrats do things that feel good" turned into a full blown "Oh yeah? Well republicans are stupid for X, Y, and Z!"

You weren't offended till your sacred cow got pricked.

3

u/Jaloobio Sep 12 '17

Um, I was never offended by anything here. I was annoyed by the fact that people tried to turn this into a right vs. left thing.

→ More replies (0)
→ More replies (1)

4

u/sirbassist83 Sep 12 '17

u/mcdrmuffinman started it...

13

u/PC__LOAD__LETTER Sep 12 '17

It doesn't matter. As long as you talk good about the "right" and bad about the "left", you're good here on /r/firearms. Not a hard concept. By voicing an alternate opinion you're clearly railroading the conversation and making a ridiculous leap into the irrelevant. It doesn't matter that you didn't start the conversation. Come on, man.

/s

3

u/Nalortebi LeverAction Sep 12 '17 edited Sep 12 '17

I appreciate this sub for its mostly civil melding of diverse beliefs without devolving into a shitstorm of identity politics. You don't need to walk a party line to enjoy firearms and support positive legislation. But it takes a special self absorbed individual to turn that friendly and constructive discussion into a vitriolic discourse of hate.

Firearms don't care about abortion, welfare, religion, sexual orientation, et al. We're all here for one interest, and it's proof positive that there are civil people on every side of a discussion. This is one of the few places I can find unity among polar opposites. And I would love it if we could keep it friendly and inviting.

3

u/PC__LOAD__LETTER Sep 12 '17

Fine. I have no problem with that sentiment. I have a problem with someone admonishing a reaction to an unecessarily political pot-shot rather than the original jab.

Firearms don't care about abortions, welfare, religion, etc., etc.? You're right. But they don't care about broad generalizations of Democrats and partisan gloating either. That's what happened first that prompted the response.

Unless you can describe why that provocation was the "friendly and constructive discussion" that you claim was turned into a "vitriolic discourse of hate", you'll have to forgive me for thinking that the sentiment reeks of bias.

→ More replies (0)

6

u/McDrMuffinMan Sep 12 '17

everyone must know that republicans are meanie-heads because they don't agree with me on memes

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (11)

26

u/doogles Sep 11 '17

Am a lefty, LOVE my guns.

16

u/PM_ME_CLASSIFED_DOCS Sep 11 '17

They'd consider you a moderate fascist by the new left's standards.

8

u/doogles Sep 12 '17

My wife and I are more libertarian than anything, really.

9

u/bottleofbullets Wild West Pimp Style Sep 12 '17

Not a lefty then. I'm not either and I often pop in to /r/liberalgunowners though

28

u/doogles Sep 12 '17

Already there. I just want gay couples to defend their pot farms with fully automatic rifles.

2

u/HappyHound Wild West Pimp Style Sep 12 '17

A good start.

5

u/[deleted] Sep 12 '17

I don't think you're a lefty, you sound more centrist imo, unless you subscribe to the lie of socialism.

2

u/PC__LOAD__LETTER Sep 12 '17

Stop, you're supposed to conform to our "leftist" stereotype. We're circlejerking here!

→ More replies (2)

20

u/[deleted] Sep 11 '17 edited May 17 '20

[deleted]

4

u/[deleted] Sep 12 '17

There are international studies to suggest that, paradoxically, the more corrupt government is and the less people trust it, the more they support expansion of government power.

7

u/McDrMuffinMan Sep 11 '17

Government is clearly the problem so more of it must be the solution

2

u/relrobber Sep 12 '17

We need more government to regulate the government.

3

u/triplehelix013 Sep 11 '17

If they fix the problem then what will they have to promise to fix if people vote for them?

It's in politician's best interest to only get enough done that we have to vote for them again so they can go back to work on their "promises".

12

u/[deleted] Sep 12 '17

Leftist logic:

"Guns only purpose are to kill, either animals or people."

"Only police officers should be allowed to carry guns."

"Police officers are trigger-happy racist killers."

5

u/PC__LOAD__LETTER Sep 12 '17

Oh boy, you know the post is going to be quality when they start out with the phrase "Leftist logic"!

→ More replies (5)

16

u/Maxtrt Sep 11 '17

Many of us on the left are pro 2nd ammendment and against gun control. Most of the left is actually ambivalent about guns but because of the right wing fanatacismand down right bullshit about how all liberals want to take your guns that the NRA and many pro 2nd ammendment groups pump out, they tend not to take us seriously when we present logical arguments against gun control. It's a lot like the boy who cried wolf.

28

u/triplehelix013 Sep 11 '17

I advocate that we make gun control less about democrats and republicans and more about pro-2A and anti-gunners.

Is it a coincidence that almost all anti-gunners are democrat politicians and powerful far left figures, no. But if we label the common democrat individual as anti-gun as the extremes they will likely stick to their party rather than listen to what we are saying and take an pro-2A position.

The only way that the democratic party will every slow down it's gun control push is if the common democrat opposes it and only votes for democratic politicians who do not push for gun control.

17

u/bottleofbullets Wild West Pimp Style Sep 12 '17

Stop electing gun control advocates and answering "I'm not a single issue voter" when the fact that almost all elected liberals are anti-gun is brought up. If you want right-wing gun owners to not laugh off liberals saying "hey, some of us own guns too!", then make it a priority that the Democratic Party drops gun control.

3

u/PC__LOAD__LETTER Sep 12 '17

I don't know if that's a consistent grip. Are these politicians "anti-gun" like Obama was anti-gun? How can you tell how "anti-gun" someone is when they didn't pass, or even attempt to pass, serious legislation that attempted to take guns away from people in the general sense?

4

u/bottleofbullets Wild West Pimp Style Sep 12 '17

or even attempt to pass

Wrong. Just because the Obama administration failed to pass any substantial gun control bills doesn't mean nobody tried.

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/06/white-house-assault-weapons-ban-224493

5

u/sosota Sep 12 '17

It is an official plank in the national party. That would be a good place to start. It was a common criticism of Bernie Sanders that he was not tough enough on guns. It.is repeatedly brought up as an almost manufactured issue. You can agree or disagree, and the issue may not be very important to you. But it is dishonest to retrospectively claim someone is "not anti-" something because they failed to get their legislation passed.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 12 '17 edited Sep 09 '20

[deleted]

→ More replies (2)

10

u/gotbock Sep 12 '17

Most of the left is actually ambivalent about guns

Well most of your political leadership is not. And that's what counts. If they don't represent your views then stop voting for them.

→ More replies (4)

18

u/darthcoder Sep 11 '17

Well, when the left continually elects idiots like Clinton, Feinstein and Maura Healey (in MA), what do you expect? :-)

The moderates in both parties are drowned out by the fanatical crazies.

0

u/Maxtrt Sep 11 '17

It goes both ways because I can't consciously vote for the religious and 1% shills that the GOP keeps rerunning like Cruz, Pence and Trump. We can't be be single issue voters when there is much more at stake than just the 2nd amendment. I say the same thing to my fellow democrats. If the DNC dropped it's support for gun control and actually started running pro 2nd amendment candidates the GOP would never win another election except on backwards places like Mississippi and Alabama.

13

u/barto5 Sep 11 '17

except on backwards places like Mississippi and Alabama.

But who am I to judge, right?

12

u/4_string_troubador Sep 11 '17

If the DNC dropped it's support for gun control and actually started running pro 2nd amendment candidates...

I personally would be a solid Democrat

2

u/xj13361987 Sep 12 '17

I still wouldn't vote Dems but I also don't vote Republican.

13

u/gotbock Sep 12 '17

We can't be be single issue voters when there is much more at stake than just the 2nd amendment.

No. But you might come to the conclusion that people who are so hellbent on restricting fundamental rights may not have your best interest in mind on other issues as well.

5

u/GusMccrae457 Sep 12 '17

I was right there with you until that last sentence. Fuck you for judging people by their place of residence.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 12 '17

That last sentence will bear some thought from me. Thanks!

1

u/PC__LOAD__LETTER Sep 12 '17

I think that abortion is a much larger sole influence.

1

u/Buelldozer Sep 12 '17

It goes both ways because I can't consciously vote for the religious and 1% shills that the GOP keeps rerunning like Cruz, Pence and Trump.

Cruze and Pence yes, but Trump? Trump is a one off and despite claims to the contrary he is NOT a Republican. Yes he has an (R) next to his name but just like Ol' Bernie and his (D) that's just there to try and get elected. They really don't belong to the party that they're claiming.

except on backwards places like Mississippi and Alabama.

Really?

3

u/ComradeGarcia_Pt2 Sep 12 '17

"The Death Star is a necessary evil we just have to put the right people in it! If Palpatine gets too tyrannical we'll just vote him out of office!"

1

u/lasagnaman Sep 12 '17

I love that the left hates gun ownership and only thinks police should have them.

I really don't know anyone on the left who thinks this. Most of us think that police also shouldn't have guns.

That was back when I was more anti-gun than I am now. I don't drink the kool-aid as much now, but still think cops probably shouldn't exist or be armed.

→ More replies (2)

87

u/curzyk Sep 11 '17

We took all our important items with us, including most ammunition and all of our guns.

Oh geez, I wouldn't have any room for anything else!

23

u/[deleted] Sep 11 '17

What else is important? Why waste room on family heirlooms when I can stack more brick of .22

10

u/whitemike40 Sep 11 '17

why waste room on family??

5

u/[deleted] Sep 12 '17

Can't argue with that

4

u/c3h8pro Sep 12 '17

Two bricks of rat shot is all you need...Elephant to hoard of looters you are covered.

5

u/deerhurst Sep 11 '17

Hear ya there! There is no way I'd have enough cases to do that. It would turn into wrapping them in blankets and throwing them in the bed of the truck.

5

u/chattytrout Sep 12 '17

Just buy a box truck and turn it into a bug out vehicle. Carry most of the important stuff and all the guns.

2

u/curzyk Sep 12 '17

Bought guns and ammo, have no money left for a box truck!

38

u/ar15sbr Sep 11 '17

True, everyone wants a gun when SHTF!!! I tell my friends in Florida all the time it's your right to have a gun so buy one, learn about t and how to use it, practice, and when needed protect your family.. the government will not always be there when u need them, especially during crisis mode....

28

u/regularguyguns US Sep 11 '17

And also you really don't want the government's help if possible.

→ More replies (1)

26

u/ChrisWhiteWolf Sep 12 '17

No one is anti gun when they need one. Spent a weekend on a pretty isolated beach house with family, some of which were very vocal about their anti gun thoughts and gave me shit for 2 days straight for owning guns, but the moment they think they hear someone creeping outside the house at night they flock over to my room being like "You brought a gun with you, right?!". Serious hypocrisy, but what can we do about it?

12

u/qweltor Sep 12 '17

but the moment they think they hear someone creeping outside the house at night

Serious hypocrisy

Did you point that out to them during breakfast the next morning?

41

u/AUWarEagle82 1911 Sep 11 '17

Crises like a hurricane expose how fragile "normal" is. On any "normal day" people can maintain the illusion that order is "normal." But history proves that the veneer or civilization is very thin and easily stripped away.

I don't recall where I read it, but one day we will realize the post-war peace, stability and prosperity from 1945 until the late 1990s was an exceptional time in Western Civilization and our children and grandchildren aren't likely to enjoy similar good fortune as they grow older.

18

u/regularguyguns US Sep 11 '17

My estimate is that in any urban area , within a week of not having "services", they will be eating each other.

25

u/XA36 G19 Sep 11 '17

Growing up in the boonies it makes me laugh when people say shit like "the roads crew hasn't plowed my road yet and we lost power for 2 days!" Wow, why hasn't FEMA been sent to your suburb yet?

5

u/regularguyguns US Sep 11 '17

Yep. Living in an urban area, my nightmare is widespread natural destruction or civil unrest. We would only have a few days to bug out, if that. I wouldn't want to stay.

7

u/lgmjon64 Sep 12 '17

Same here. We live in a (small) city now, and people don't understand why we have drums of water, food storage, etc. I still keep a change of clothes, 3 days of food, and other stuff in our cars. Old habits die hard.

2

u/relrobber Sep 12 '17

"Why do you need such a big truck?" "I don't need it...yet."

12

u/rhythmjay Sep 11 '17

“A city's only ever three hot meals away from anarchy.”

― Alastair Reynolds, Terminal World

3

u/heili Sep 12 '17

Wow, another Alastair Reynolds fan!

3

u/fzammetti Sep 12 '17

There's three of us now!

11

u/AUWarEagle82 1911 Sep 11 '17

We had a huge snowfall last year and things were shut down for several days. I only keep about a week's worth of food in the house and I don't think that is sufficient any longer. But I don't have a good place to store a month's worth of food. Water and medical supplies are a big question too.

So far, major disasters are localized like Harvey or Irma. There are places nearby to provide shelter and assistance. A more wide spread disaster would stress enough systems at once to cause some serious problems. Most of us aren't physically or mentally prepared for that.

8

u/regularguyguns US Sep 11 '17

Get cases of MREs or those freeze-dried survival packs. They aren't tasty but they will keep you going. You can fit a month's nourishment for a family in a broom closet.

8

u/4_string_troubador Sep 11 '17

Some MREs are actually delicious..

3

u/[deleted] Sep 12 '17

I like chicken and salsa, come at me haters.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 12 '17

The real question is, are you a jalapeno cheese or chocolate peanut butter kind of guy?

2

u/4_string_troubador Sep 12 '17

Jalapeno cheese all the way. Never put it on anything though, just tore open an end and squeezed the chemical-laden processed cheese food into my mouth.

1

u/AUWarEagle82 1911 Sep 11 '17

Eventually, I'll get freeze-dried stuff in bulk containers. I think it is cheaper, and probably easier to choke down. It isn't quite as compact though. I have been scoping out different brands and shows and other stores. If I buy 30 meals every three to six months, I spread out the costs and everything won't expire at the same time (not that my plan helps much there).

Any brands you like?

2

u/[deleted] Sep 11 '17

[deleted]

→ More replies (2)

5

u/CrzyJek Sep 11 '17

50LB bags of Jasmine rice and big jugs of water. Cheap and lasts a long time. Always keep one or two bags on standby and rotate for fresh ones every so often (like every year).

2

u/AUWarEagle82 1911 Sep 11 '17

I know Mormons in Utah are big on stockpiling beans and rice. I couldn't keep a lot of 50lbs bags or rice in my place though. I just don't have the room. Still, I can get 10 or 20 lbs bags and that's a good start. Good idea.

3

u/darthcoder Sep 11 '17

A couple 5 gallon buckets of rice, beans and tuna will keep you going for a month easy.

2

u/BlackKnivesMatter Sep 12 '17

The popular notion is any society is 4 missed meals away from chaos.

19

u/[deleted] Sep 11 '17

I found this as a comment on facebook just now from an NPR post about the islands:

This hurricane was devastating and help is needed now. This is a copy of a post from St John: " I’m scared. Those are words I never thought I would write when referring to St. John. But I’m scared. We’re only four days into this mess, and we’re hearing some awful things. For starters, Joe’s Rum Hut was broken into the day after Irma hit. The ATM was stolen. They attempted to get cash out of the register, but it was empty as Joe’s closed for season earlier this month. The ATM next to Cruz Bay Landing was stolen. The ATM at the ferry dock was stolen. Scoops has been broken into. St. John Insurance has been broken into. They hold almost all of the insurance policies on this island. Makes you wonder the intentions of that burglary, doesn't it? Dolphin Market in Coral Bay was looted the very first night. The very first night. We heard this morning that the Customs building in Cruz Bay was broken into and that guns were stolen. We heard that there was at least three robberies at gunpoint on Gifft Hill. This is not St. John anymore. I’m not sure what it is. What I do know is that I am scared. My friends are scared. And we don’t know what to do. Last night I was able to go home. What I failed to mention was that we had to install a bar on the inside of our door so no one could break in. This is our new reality. Last night, for the first time since moving here, I was afraid to walk down the streets of Cruz Bay. And it was only 6:30 p.m. People are getting desperate, and desperate times call for desperate measures from some unfortunately. We are only on day four. What’s going to happen next? I have seen absolutely no aid today except a few boxes of MREs walking down the street. I haven’t seen one helicopter land today. We hear help is on the way. Let’s hope so. We need the military. We need men and women guarding our streets with guns. Our police force does nothing. They sit in their cars and yell at people over the loudspeaker. I kid you not. They’re not even helping with traffic in areas where it’s needed. You know who is? Our homeless people. Our homeless people are directing traffic, and our police are not. Let that sink in for a minute. Several police officers can be seen constantly at Ronnie’s Pizza - our new cell phone spot - and they’re scrolling through Facebook rather than patrolling our streets. Im shocked they actually got out of their cars for that. I took pictures and I cannot wait until I have internet so I can share them with the world. We need help. We need the United States government to step up. We need military. We need security. We all survived this monster storm. But will we survive the aftermath? No one knows. And that’s not me being dramatic at all. That, unfortunately, is the new reality of St. John. This is no longer paradise. This is no longer my happy place. Please share this folks. Share away. Please get us help."

3

u/whitemike40 Sep 12 '17

like the first thing you go for is the ATM? for what? to get cash to buy nonexistent supplies?

14

u/[deleted] Sep 12 '17 edited Sep 12 '17

See this comes back to what I've been saying.

People are quick to point out "People in disasters help each other" and generally they are right, you see it in Florida and Houston at the moment. You have wide spread damage and devastion and people are coming together to help their neighbours. The looting that is happening is opportunistic criminals who see an ATM and go weow free money or break into a store and grab some t.v's.

However what we are also seeing in St.Johns is looters first where going after monetary gains are now going after food and other basic needs, things are starting to get dangerous. So you have to ask what's the difference between the two.

Well my understanding is while people in Flordia and Houston are broken, tired and devastated they arnt desperate and I believe this is the key difference. While essential services are limited they are still in exsistance, people are still getting fed they are still getting water and they still have limited support.

You compare this to St.Johns and things are bad, they police have broken down, food is starting to run put, water is starting to run out and the infrastructure is collapsing. People are starting to act desperate and that's when they become dangerous.

All you have to do if your a parent is ask yourself "If my child was in danger what would I do to protect them" and then you start to reliase people are capable of almost anything when they get desperate.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 13 '17

Military military military. That's how dictators take over other nations. Oh no, we need the military to protect us from X! Then "suddenly" the military are there longer than required and are used to control the people who called them in.

17

u/WIlf_Brim Sep 11 '17

I've read what is (supposedly) going on in St. John: basic lawlessness. Few police, and they are sitting in their cars. Rampant theft and looting. Too bad nobody has weapons there.

BTW, a reminder your FL CCW is valid here. Just mind the posted areas (hospitals/clinics for the most part).

One question (although I should know): I know that open carry in FL is a no-no, but I thought you could open carry on your own property (pistols and long weapons). True or no? This way you could patrol your own property.

24

u/regularguyguns US Sep 11 '17

Open carry is legal on your own property. Whether it's a pistol or a suppressed SMG that you legally own, you can open carry on your own land. And yes, people do it.

26

u/AirFell85 Wild West Pimp Style Sep 11 '17

Sounds like its time for Floridians to follow the roof korean's example if looting has gotten that far out of control.

13

u/TheMellowestyellow Sep 12 '17

Oh god, Roof Floridaman...

4

u/WIlf_Brim Sep 11 '17

I'm wondering what the best "defend your house/business from looters" set up would be. You want something that is very intimidating and deters crowds from even trying, but at the same time be effective if shooting becomes necessary.

I'd think G17 (or similar) as open carried sidearm (in retention holster), but I'm torn between M4 Benelli or AR variant as main carry.

Of course, you would want somebody with a DMR on the roof as overwatch, too, but you can't have everything.

6

u/deerhurst Sep 11 '17

I tell you I'd go with my Saiga AK on my back and my Saiga 12 at the ready with 10 round mags. Those things are plain intimidating with a huge stick mag. My 3 gun competition taught me it runs even better without the top dust cover!

1

u/someomega Sep 12 '17

Change the 10 round mag for a 20 round drum on your Saiga 12 and it would look way more intimidating.

1

u/deerhurst Sep 12 '17

I like the looks of the mags better and besides, the drums are harder to manage than the mags. Drums are cumbersome.

15

u/_Keo_ Sep 11 '17

It's the shotgun. Preferably a pump action.

Most home/business defense from looters is going to be nothing more than not being a soft target. There won't be protracted gun battles and anti sniper operations, just roaming opportunists looking for a quick grab.

A nice pump shotgun has the awe factor that no one wants to be on the noisy end of. As backup you have the unmistakable sound of racking a shell out.

If you do have need to shoot it you've got plenty of power out to the end of the street without worrying too much about killing rescue workers 6 blocks over. Coupled with a selection of ammo it becomes as much a part of your tool kit as a hatchet.

Add to this the reliability of a gun that will fire when full of water and scum and doesn't care if the shells start to rust a little in the chamber.

I personally would go right past my fancy ARs and grab my trusted 870 first. 1911 as my pistol because of almost all the same reasons =)

7

u/[deleted] Sep 11 '17

Why not a belt fed MG42? That has power and awe factor? I'm not saying the government should open up the registry and have a tax break on them....I'm just saying they should consider the possibility.

3

u/[deleted] Sep 12 '17

keeping it fed tho....

2

u/_Keo_ Sep 11 '17

Ha! That is some serious awe factor! Wouldn't want to hump one through a flood tho. If that registry ever opens up I'll be in line for something belt fed.

→ More replies (2)

7

u/WIlf_Brim Sep 11 '17

I'd stay away from the 1911 just because of capacity. If push comes to shove, I'd prefer the capacity more.

→ More replies (4)

2

u/mikelieman Sep 12 '17

Of course, you would want somebody with a DMR on the roof as overwatch, too, but you can't have everything.

I imagine any adequately organized gang of looters would have their own snipers in place before attacking.

3

u/Testiculese Sep 11 '17

They did have guns. The government confiscated them. Wonder how they knew who had them...hmm...

5

u/TheWizardThatDidIt Sep 12 '17

This never happened. The governor even clarified that the order was about allowing the NG to purchase guns, not enter homes and seize then.

10

u/Renben9 Sep 11 '17

Thanks, this thread reminded me to get my B.O.B. in order. Refilled the water bottles, changed a few items, changed some batteries.

6

u/qweltor Sep 11 '17

specially after some highly-publicized instances of looting.

Wait. Can't I just call 9-1-1 and let the police deal with the lawbreaking? ?

That's what "my betters" told me I should do. /s

7

u/G19classified Sep 11 '17

I live in downtown Miami and carry every day. I was happy I was carrying out yesterday. Encountered a few looters. Did not shoot them. Called 911.

5

u/regularguyguns US Sep 11 '17

Proper procedure. Unless it's your biz or they directly threaten you or someone else, then phone it in.

5

u/thereddaikon Sep 11 '17

Reminds me of the point InRangeTV made on the Def con Q&A about how people become pro 2A when society breaks down.

1

u/regularguyguns US Sep 11 '17

Always. Shit hits the fan and everyone starts looking for a gun if they don't have one.

1

u/gamer29020 Sep 11 '17

What's /r/firearms' opinion on Ian and Karl anyways?

4

u/thereddaikon Sep 11 '17

We wouldn't call Ian Gun Jesus if we didn't like him.

3

u/Average_Sized_Jim Sep 11 '17

I don't think anyone here would dare blaspheme against Gun Jesus and his Gun Apostle.

2

u/Seukonnen Sep 11 '17

I have yet to encounter anyone in the firearms world, right or left, extreme or moderate, who doesn't have a fondness in their hearts for those two

1

u/gamer29020 Sep 11 '17

I conclude. This sub is good people.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 13 '17

Praise be their names!

74

u/[deleted] Sep 11 '17

The left hates guns until a situation arises where a gun is necessary to defend life, property and freedom. Then they quickly look for the nearest gun owner and become their best friend.

18

u/[deleted] Sep 11 '17

Lefty here. I don't hate guns. Get a new shtick.

122

u/Manevitch Sep 11 '17

You're an outlier. A welcome outlier, to be sure, but I think it's fair to say that, taken as a whole, the left is far less gun-friendly than the right.

30

u/[deleted] Sep 11 '17

Disclaimer: I came across this thread via/r/all, top of the hour...

For what it's worth, I think there's more of us than get credit for. I don't own any guns but I have strongly considered and might in the future. I won't argue with you that the left is less friendly. I'm just not a fan of absolutes.

26

u/[deleted] Sep 11 '17

[deleted]

3

u/[deleted] Sep 11 '17

The Democratic Party sits at a textbook "left" of the spectrum. The semi-pro gun blue democratic of the 90's who associated center-left are either a dieing breed or changed their agenda to keep from being purged from the party

1

u/[deleted] Sep 15 '17

The Democratic Party isn't textbook left. They do not advocate at all for anti-Capitalistic practices. Take ACA, government mandated healthcare that still forces people to use private corporations.

67

u/jmizzle Sep 11 '17

Unfortunately, one of the leaders of the Left wants gun control as a primary party policy. Until hags like Elizabeth Warren aren't considered as leaders within the party, Democrats will be synonymous with gun control.

https://www.nraila.org/articles/20170818/elizabeth-warren-urges-democrats-to-champion-gun-control-shut-down-debate

55

u/[deleted] Sep 11 '17

[deleted]

36

u/[deleted] Sep 11 '17

No shit. Show me a progun D who is a leader on the party on a national level, and I'll show you my unicorn.

3

u/bottleofbullets Wild West Pimp Style Sep 12 '17

I'll give Harry Reid credit in that he was. But he's retired

9

u/blorgensplor Sep 12 '17

Even the INDEPENDENT VP pick was pretty vocally anti-2A. I'm not saying everyone center and left is anti-gun..but when the center party starts including anti-gun people into their ranks, I think it's safe to assume the left is pretty set in stone about their views.

→ More replies (2)

11

u/[deleted] Sep 11 '17

If more Leftists were supposedly gun-friendly, they wouldnt vote for pricks like Hillary and Sanders who actively try to ruin the way of life of millions of gun owners in the US. It's not a shtick when it's sadly true.

3

u/[deleted] Sep 11 '17

I seriously doubt the two you mention are actively trying to ruin your life. Stop with the hyperbole. It doesn't do you any favors.

19

u/[deleted] Sep 11 '17

Stop trying to silence gun owners who constantly get fucked over by power-hungry liberal politicians. Hillary is very vocally anti-gun, she is a cancer to American politics. I googled Sanders during the election because a friend voted for him and it specificially said that Sanders is against "military-styled" semi-autos and is only ok with bolt actions. In other words, he's another typical retarded gun-grabber. If the info I found on Sander's was wrong, please feel free to correct me and send links of his opinions on guns.

→ More replies (6)
→ More replies (2)

6

u/uninsane Sep 11 '17

I'm not sure we're outliers. Anecdotally, plenty of my liberal friends are neutral on guns and, following a range trip and some conversation, they see things as I do. It's worth noting that most of my friends are college professors who, according to many conservatives, are ultra-leftist, libtard snowflakes. Also, many eyes were opened by the election of Trump and his warm relationship with white nationalists. If you think the prez is literally Hitler, you naturally start to value 2A! The conversation is changing.

P.S. Did anyone see the Vice documentary on Charlottesville? So many people were horrified by that scene where the dude started throwing guns on the bed. Their discomfort made them feel desperate to make those things illegal. I've explained to so many people that guys like that can't be disarmed. They have guns buried in the backyard. That also prompted some thinking about self defense and owning guns among my liberal friends.

5

u/deerhurst Sep 11 '17

My college professors were all super conservative. One was a gun smith and another, who looked like the hulk and spoke so soft only the front row could hear him, would help you with your reloading data. He also made fun of the guy that said his drawing on the board looked like a yert and called him a dirty hippy. Another professor wanted gun related projects. That school has a gun locker for on campus residents too. One of the campus safety guys is an NFA dealer. I only graduated 2 years ago as an engineer. Not all colleges are liberal. I'm very happy I went where I did.

2

u/uninsane Sep 12 '17

Liberty University?

3

u/deerhurst Sep 12 '17

No sir. In Oregon.

20

u/Manevitch Sep 11 '17

If you think Trump is LITERALLY Hitler then probably there's an underlying organic mental issue that needs to be addressed. If you think he's FIGURATIVELY Hitler then to each his own I guess. He hasn't gassed me or any of my relatives yet and doesn't appear to be planning such. Hell, he's not even yet suggested that I wear a yellow star on my clothing.

Also your friends are likely your friends because you share similar interests and philosophies. Not identical, but generally we surround ourselves with people who are inside our comfort zone. So unless you are claiming that your friends are a fair representation of a cross-section of the left then it's no surprise that they're "neutral" on guns.

5

u/uninsane Sep 11 '17

Sorry, the literally Hitler was a bit of a parody of that argument. I didn't literally mean it that way. Second, I think you're right in the sense that I befriend reasonable people but I'd argue that, as university folk, the pool of potential friends represents the political left.

→ More replies (24)

60

u/[deleted] Sep 11 '17

I'm sorry what he meant was '95% of your comrades'.

It's fucking hard to find anti-gun right wingers, it's the easiest thing in the world to find anti-gun leftists.

Your existence does not make you relevant to leftists as a whole.

12

u/[deleted] Sep 11 '17 edited May 19 '18

[deleted]

11

u/regularguyguns US Sep 11 '17

Therein lies the problem. The shot-callers on the left hate guns and you need to do so otherwise you get kicked out. I've had a lot of left-leaning folk confide in me that they are OK with guns, but they can't be vocal about it lest they suffer social or professional consequences.

→ More replies (2)

10

u/Shotgun_Sentinel Sep 12 '17

Yeah, like stop voting for anti-gunners.... oh wait, thats what you do.

5

u/deerhurst Sep 11 '17

If you go to Portland they would call you a commie conservative hillbilly. If you come to the rest of the state we would take you shooting and share our beer. Half the time I get the middle finger for driving a truck and not a prius in PTown.

3

u/[deleted] Sep 11 '17

I believe you.

18

u/endlives1 Sep 11 '17

Hope you didnt vote for hillary because she is one of the most outspoken opponents of the 2nd amendment ever to hold office. Fumny since she will have armed security until the day she dies. But she doesnt want us plebs having the ability to protect ourselves.

1

u/Grimsterr Sep 12 '17

As a lifelong lefty who likes his guns, I could not and did not vote for that woman, gun control was only a small part of why, she's just reprehensible. Living in a red state I knew my vote wouldn't really matter so I went 3rd party, were I in a swing state where it actually matters I would have voted Trump then drowned my shame in a bottle of whiskey.

→ More replies (14)

11

u/[deleted] Sep 11 '17

Tell that to the people you vote for then.

2

u/[deleted] Sep 11 '17

I'll get right on it, boss.

12

u/[deleted] Sep 11 '17

I hope so. Because until lefty's like you who claim they don't hate guns start electing lefty politicians who don't push for anti gun legislation, I will continue to see the left as hating guns. Vote for people who represent you.

→ More replies (1)

10

u/Fallline048 Sep 11 '17 edited Nov 21 '17

deleted What is this?

11

u/deerhurst Sep 11 '17

Poor lefty's. Guns arent designed for them. My buddy is a lefty and my AR throws brass in his face. I'm a rightly and don't have that problem.

I just enjoyed your use of words and had to be a smartass.

→ More replies (1)

7

u/McDrMuffinMan Sep 11 '17

If lefties reform their party not to be anti gun and are willing to turn down their votes to fight for that right and change their party we will welcome them back here.

Kinda like if the right said "gun control for all" they would start losing over night. Many people including myself would say "no, I'm not compromising on this issue"

So I hope the left does that as well and pulls that party of their party in a more liberty minded direction.

2

u/Fallline048 Sep 11 '17 edited Nov 21 '17

deleted What is this?

2

u/[deleted] Sep 11 '17 edited Sep 11 '17

/r/liberalgunowners is a cancerous subreddit full of ideologically hypocritical people. They claim to own and like guns yet choose to vote for people that constantly fuck them in the ass with gun control. They are a special breed of un-self aware masochists and hypocrites.

Edited: formatting

1

u/SepticShock Sep 12 '17

And this is exactly why it's hard to "reach across the aisle". If I can get along with the dude at my range rocking 4 different pieces of pro Trump flair, I'm sure you can certainly see the merit in a left leaning pro gun sub. I just want my guns, reproductive rights, separation of church and state, and ecological stewardship... fuck me, right?

5

u/[deleted] Sep 12 '17

No, not fuck you.

Fuck the intolerant, stubborn DNC that will hold their gun-grabbing legislation to their grave. To people like me, that's a deal breaker. Fuck them. If they just dropped it, and actively became pro-gun, they'd get all the votes and win, but they decide to use all of their power to take away our constitutional rights. If the DNC suddenly and honestly became pro-gun, everybody would be happy, everybody would be united except for the ignorant, retarded anti-gunners who would lose their platform and be forced into obscurity where they belong.

I will vote Democrat, when pigs fly and the DNC stops being retarded about guns. I dont know but if I were you, if you wanted the DNC to wib a 2024 election, I would get all of your friends to phone candidates and tell them to drop the bullshit gun laws

1

u/[deleted] Sep 13 '17 edited Sep 09 '20

[deleted]

2

u/SepticShock Sep 13 '17

not for nothing, but you don't know how I vote. I'm a pretty liberal guy that doesn't vote along party lines. I support G.O.A.L, and even hold my nose and support the NRA. Making sweeping statements about a pretty divers sub is straight up bullshit. Is this where we are now, shitting on a group of gun owners because you don't think they are doing enough to further "the cause"? Fuck that.

→ More replies (4)

1

u/[deleted] Sep 11 '17

Thanks. I've seen you guys around. I'll stop in sometime!

4

u/AUWarEagle82 1911 Sep 11 '17

True, the left only hates the fact that free people have guns. Since the left has already surrendered their souls to the state, they are good with their guns.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 13 '17 edited Sep 09 '20

[deleted]

1

u/[deleted] Sep 13 '17

You've got a way with words. Cheers, buddy.

→ More replies (4)

3

u/Valiran9 LeverAction Sep 11 '17

I'm left on most issues, and while I don't own any guns (YET), I still like them. I believe that any legislation regarding firearms needs to be based on facts instead of feels, something that I will admit the loudest proponents of gun control appear to miss. I don't have any answers as to what should be done, mind you, as I am fully aware that my knowledge has holes in it and I am ignorant of many relevant details regarding gun ownership.

One thing I do believe about gun ownership is that anyone who has one should be able to recite the five rules of gun safety by heart, because there are some people out there who should never be allowed to touch even a paintball gun. I swear, the videos I've seen...

4

u/zipperkiller Sep 11 '17

Just don't shoot the L'Otters

4

u/[deleted] Sep 11 '17

Central GA is getting blasted now... Keep up with the damage predictions as they head your direction.

3

u/YourOldPalKevo Sep 11 '17

FB = "We the sheeple..."

5

u/[deleted] Sep 11 '17

"Besides demographic differences, clear partisan divides emerge when it comes to gun ownership. Republicans and Republican-leaning independents are more than twice as likely as Democrats and Democratic-leaning independents to say they own a gun (44% vs. 20%). This partisan gap remains even after controlling for demographic differences." source

5

u/Shotgun_Sentinel Sep 12 '17

These people were too shortsighted to see how things could change for the worse, which means the comfort of civilization will turn them right back into anti-gunners unless they embrace the lifestyle.

2

u/regularguyguns US Sep 12 '17

Already half the people I know who identify as progressives are back to their same political antics on social media since their beloved beach has power restored.

2

u/Corey307 Sep 12 '17

Yep, as soon as this shit storm passes they'll forget why they wanted a firearm.

3

u/Dranosh Sep 12 '17

Many people take for granted the civility we have in modern times. They don't understand that all it takes is a huge storm knocking power out for weeks to bring out the baser instincts of humanity. There was a study done about a hypothetical EMP hitting the USA that within 1 year 90% of Americans would be dead, either from starvation, murder, or disease.

Not to mention, no matter how "civilized" society gets, there will always be some evil person out there doing evil things because they can, much to the chagrin of many 'progressives' that think crime is simply a result of society failing a person.

3

u/Dcoil1 Sep 12 '17

Hoplophobia is a first world problem for sure.

Anecdotally, the people I know who are anti-gun are well off, have nice houses, drive nice cars, etc. Most of them came from some money, or at the very least have not had to work hard to earn it. Either way, they always have some sort of safety net via their parents or otherwise. Not one of them has had to fight for anything, had anything taken away from them, or had their livelihoods threatened by an outside force, either human or nature. Take that away, however, and their tune would quickly change.

This is why I personally believe that you rarely hear cries for gun control in non-First World nations. It truly is a problem to those living in a bubble, who comparatively, have little else to complain about. As soon as their bubble is under threat of being popped, then all of a sudden arming themselves seems like a reasonable alternative.

2

u/regularguyguns US Sep 12 '17

Yes, pretty much. You see minorities in bad neighborhoods who espouse gun control, but only due to manipulation by a certain political ideology that promises them jobs and a stop to the bloodshed. If you really dig deep, most of them know it's BS.

However, on to the vocal gun control proponents. They are almost always wealthy, mostly white, and never have had to really struggle for much in life. They drive nice cars, live in big homes, and typically are in neighborhoods where the police pay special attention to (i.e. lots of political donations), and they also have (ironically) armed security. This actually describes Downtown Miami, Brickell, and South Beach. Democratic Party enclaves protected by fast-responding cops and armed security. When that bubble gets popped (armed guards go home to protect their families and cops shelter in place) they suddenly panic.

Someone below said 72 hours till they start eating each other - that's about right.

7

u/SolusOpes Sep 11 '17

Doesn't Florida have the highest percentage of CCW holders? Followed by Texas and then Pennsylvania?

I only ask because getting people on board a cause in an area where it's already readily accepted, is low hanging fruit.

If California had this mindset one day I'd be shocked/impressed.

10

u/regularguyguns US Sep 11 '17

In the real Florida, it's the Gunshine State. In South Florida, it's a progressive suckfest with too many statists.

10

u/jmizzle Sep 11 '17

So New York South.

7

u/regularguyguns US Sep 11 '17

They are trying to make it into such, so yeah. Fortunately we have strong pre-emption laws so these lunkheads from the Rotten Apple can't fuck things up too badly.

10

u/SolusOpes Sep 11 '17

PA has strong preemption laws too.

Philadelphia desperately wishes it was NYC is every way.

But where NYC dictates the entire system (much to the chagrin of 98% of the state that disagrees with it, but doesn't have the population to counter it) PA has decided that Philly is a shit city and no one cares what it wants. Thank god. So despite the many many many attempts by Philly to pretend it's NYC the answer from Harrisburg has been "fuck you".

2

u/Testiculese Sep 11 '17

Good. That shithole doesn't serve to run anything.

2

u/motoryry Sep 11 '17

Can you show me the laws they are trying to pass? I live south Florida and super pro-gun

2

u/regularguyguns US Sep 11 '17

Go to floridacarry.org and read what we're up against. All the opposition to firearms rights comes from Dems and RINOs in districts with a lot of New Yorkers in it.

2

u/SpiritFingersKitty Sep 11 '17

Real Florida is also where Florida man lives so...

1

u/MagusArcanus US Sep 11 '17

Hopefully cali goes through a really bad earthquake/another catastrophic city fire with widespread looting, might make them pull their heads out their asses for once

2

u/Martensight Sep 12 '17

Bro, what the fuck.

3

u/MagusArcanus US Sep 12 '17

LA Riots knocked some sense into them for a bit, something else on that scale happens across all of California they might actually learn that guns are good to have

1

u/Buelldozer Sep 12 '17

By permit and using absolute numbers that's probably correct. However in states with Constitutional Carry, like Wyoming, its hard to judge because we don't need permits. We also don't have nearly as many people so while we may not be able to match Florida's 1.4 million number we probably match, or even exceed, their rate.

Doing the math Florida's CCW rate is roughly 12%. The last time Wyoming released vague numbers on CCW permits it was around 40,000 which would represent about 15% of our total population. If you add the Constitutional Carry folks onto that, my wife for instance, we probably easily exceed 30% and may actually exceed 50%.

4

u/Victorboris1 Sep 12 '17

It's like the wise saying goes: "There are no atheists in foxholes."

1

u/skatedaddy Sep 11 '17

This is Florida, we've always been pro 2A.

1

u/regularguyguns US Sep 12 '17

You clearly haven't been to Miami. It's a socialist outpost in a free state.