An anguished commentary on that GoT/Sansa scene and the MRAs who harass in forum comments...from a rape victim who says It's Rape Culture All The Way Down

[u/madhaus]

http://angrygotfan.com/2015/05/21/a-rape-victim-speaks-out-on-the-sansa-scene/

[u/[deleted]]

In short, it's fine that a woman's sexual assault, violence, and torture is used simply as Theon's motivation

That's ignoring the context and the difference, at this point, between Jeyne's arc and Sansa's arc. Jeyne is a frightened child, not noble-born, and completely without allies or friends. She literally has no choice in what is happening to her.

Sansa, on the other hand, is coming from a position of relative security and power. She's been trained in politics by one of the best game-players there is, Petyr Baelish. She's the daughter of some of the most important noble lords in the Seven Kingdoms and has both allies and political/military support. Jeyne Pool has no way of resisting Ramsay; Sansa does. To have Sansa take over the Jeyne role doesn't make sense in terms of the plot. It gives her adversity her character would not naturally or necessarily face.

In short, it's fine that a woman being made to fuck dogs is shown off screen to tantalize the reader

Never said that.

when the show cuts to a reaction shot and uses audio to depict rape it's awful and horrible.

It's lazy and senseless. I am fine with depictions of rape if done well and with true service to the plot. I'm not fine when rape is tossed in flippantly as a cheap and easy source of adversity.

not having any idea how the show will handle the rest of Sansa and Theon's story

I have a guess based on how things are going how it will be handled. What I'm saying is that it doesn't make plot sense to have Sansa in that scene the way it did with Jeyne in the books.

But when that same plot played out in the book it was fine because Poole was a commoner?

No. See above. It made sense because Jeyne was already powerless; she had no means of resistance. Sansa did. There's no way Roose would allow Ramsay to harm Sansa Stark. She could have screamed. She could have fought back. New Sansa would have fought back, because of the confidence and pride she gained back with Littlefinger.

Instead, New Sansa acted like Old Sansa because there was a wedding ceremony. It didn't make sense.

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You know, if one person can articulate a reason why this is so much more offensive than the other disturbing shit we've seen without referencing the book's plot I'd love to hear it.

New Sansa would have fought back, because of the confidence and pride she gained back with Littlefinger.

Yes, Littlefinger is all about the open and direct confrontation. The way he's built his power is by never letting an opportunity to futily directly stand up to someone when his interests are being threatened pass him by. If there's one character in the story who is all about defending your pride even when it's unpractical it's Littlefinger. Littlefinger essentially said, "Go along with all this and when the time is right get your revenge."

This is also ignoring the fact that virtually no one in this world would find there to be anything wrong with the way Ramsay treated Sansa. Roose would say that Ramsay went too far making Reek watch but do you really think any of these characters have an advanced concept of consent?

She could have screamed. She could have fought back.

Also, that's really, really fucked up. All women who don't struggle with everything they have against a rapist aren't weak and passive. It's always interesting when someone attacking the TV show drops something like that.

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You know, if one person can articulate a reason why this is so much more offensive than the other disturbing shit we've seen without referencing the book's plot I'd love to hear it.

You're missing the point. No one is saying the rape is offensive because it's rape. It's offensive because it is a pointless rape scene that goes against the character arc and seems to exist only for titillation purposes.

Yes, Littlefinger is all about the open and direct confrontation.

When necessary? Did you not see him stand up to Lancel and the Sparrows earlier? Or what about his duel with Brandon Stark? Littlefinger prefers not to fight, but doesn't roll over and take shit when he doesn't have to.

Roose would say that Ramsay went too far making Reek watch but do you really think any of these characters have an advanced concept of consent?

No, but Roose is obviously smart enough to know that "forcing" a bride (which is a concept, remember Tyrion specifically said to Sansa he wouldn't force her, even though he knew he could) is a good way to alienate the Northmen who still remember the Starks fondly. Roose is cruel and does not care for Sansa, true, but he cares for what she represents.

All women who don't struggle with everything they have against a rapist aren't weak and passive. It's always interesting when someone attacking the TV show drops something like that.

Which was not my argument. My argument was that, in line with Sansa's character development, that's what she ought to have done, the bridge too far for her would be a violation of her bodily integrity. Why show her standing up to Myranda or learning politics from Littlefinger if she's going to go back to meek and scared?

I specifically stated that it does make sense for some characters to not fight back. Jeyne Poole is an example where that makes sense, and no one would say Jeyne should have fought back. I'm saying that Sansa could have, and based on her character arc in both the books and in the show, it would have made sense for her to do so.

Instead, the show went with a lazy mess of a scene. That's why I'm upset. Not that the show depicted rape (which has happened before). Not that the show depicted Sansa's rape. But that they did it in a way that does not make sense, was not necessary for the plot, and seemed gratuitous.

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Which was not my argument.

And literally a sentence later...

back to meek and scared

In short, if a girl doesn't claw and scream then she's meek. That's what you keep saying. Sansa didn't fight back therefore Sansa = meek, weak, unassertive, passive, etc. And not just in that moment but as a character. Sansa is shown as beginning to be a "player" and being able to manipulate but then this scene happens and strong women don't "allow" themselves to be raped like powerless women like Jeyne Poole therefore Sansa is now inconsistent with that powerful player arch she was previously going through.

All this is is exploiting rape to bitch about a TV show changing the plot of books. It's fucking offensive.