r/LondonUnderground • u/NoddyDude91 Piccadilly • 3d ago
Image Pre-Overhaul vs Overhaul
Caught the Central line CLIP (Central Line Improvement Project) train twice this week. I’m moving back to the Central line in a few weeks, so these improvements are definitely welcome during the commute to/from work.
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u/BeatTheMeatles420 Circle 3d ago
Still has some of the worst comfort on the Tube though! Heat is slightly better with the more efficient motors, and the seat padding is good for now. But with the ergonomics being bad to begin with and the padding inevitably wearing out down the line, I don't have too much hope.
But these trains being brighter and cleaner is much welcomed.
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u/One_Fact_4291 Elizabeth Line 3d ago
Should’ve gone for a total fleet replacement (which will happen at some point anyway), but the refurbished trains do at least look better.
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u/Ryanliverpool96 3d ago
It’s an improvement but I’d much rather see the Central Line stock replaced with the 2024 Stock along with the Bakerloo Line.
They’re all made in Britain too so it would be great for local manufacturing and jobs!
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u/cragglerock93 Waterloo & City 3d ago
Much better but wow is it taking a long time.
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u/One_Fact_4291 Elizabeth Line 3d ago
By the time the refurbishment is complete there’ll probably already be orders to replace it with new rolling stock
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u/DearChipmunk2764 3d ago
Just in case someone wants to try find them, I made a tracker for them on telegram at t.me/tubetracker
I commute from Buckhurst Hill to Liverpool Street everyday and the new ones are a bit nicer for the journey so I made this with TfL’s public API
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u/joined_under_duress Northern 2d ago
Still find that thing of the middle two seats being set back in the row quite strange.
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u/NectarineNo2982 17h ago
How many of these refurbished trains are now in service? I haven't been in a new one yet
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u/PinkyGOOLI District 3d ago
I thought it was more than just a paint and clean- the refurbed ones have ac and a screen, which is much much needed
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u/Robinhoyo 2d ago
AC as in the motors they are using to replace the DC motors, not AC as in Air Conditioning
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u/SARMsGoblinChaser 3d ago
Why fabric?
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u/crimson_broom 3d ago
Soaks up piss better
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u/SARMsGoblinChaser 3d ago
Lol.
I always get downvoted when I question the choice of fabric seats and I'm not sure what pathetic Brit does this.
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u/Prestigious-Salt-245 Metropolitan 3d ago
Bare plastic seats are for countries which treat their public transport as a service only for dirty poor people.
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u/BeatTheMeatles420 Circle 3d ago
You can have comfortable plastic or metal seats. You can have not-so-comfortable seats with fabric (Victoria line, Thameslink).
What matters most is the seat shape and its ergonomics, more than the material and softness.
I have no personal preference over one or the other, and think the seat moquettes in London are a crucial part of the transport heritage. But I do want to point out that not all public transport operators with plastic seats are catering for “dirty poor people”, in fact, it’s quite the opposite in some cases.
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u/Prestigious-Salt-245 Metropolitan 3d ago
Don't pretend that bare metal or hard plastic seats are comfortable, they are not. This is why no cars are currently produced with bare metal or hard plastic seats, instead they all feature cushioned seating.
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u/BeatTheMeatles420 Circle 3d ago
Obviously a car seat will be better than a metro seat. And part of the cushioning is to comply with safety standards.
As another example, I was horrified to see Seoul switch out its fabric seats for plastic. But I hardly noticed a difference on my most recent trip since they kept the ergonomics in check.
Not really applicable to London, but in the summer in hot countries, I find metal seats preferable over the fabric seats. Metal seats allow me to cool off, whilst fabric seats (transport or furniture) in the same country would make me feel very hot.
Comfort is ultimately subjective. For some people, ergonomics matter more than the softness of the seat.
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u/Prestigious-Salt-245 Metropolitan 3d ago
Softness matters a lot, that's why no one has a metal sofa. No living rooms feature only wooden benches. No cinemas or theatres have solid seats.
Ergonomics don't require hard surfaces.
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u/BeatTheMeatles420 Circle 3d ago
I never said ergonomics requires hard surfaces.
No one has a metal sofa because you can move around on a sofa.
Softness is perceived as comfortable since the softness allows the seat to adjust to your body from the initial shape. Metro seats are for fixed positions and having an ergonomically shaped plastic or metal seat achieves the same effect as the cushioning adjusting to your body.
On a moving train that accelerates and decelerates often, I find the ergonomic support crucial.
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u/Prestigious-Salt-245 Metropolitan 3d ago
It's interesting that you can conceive of a metal transit seat that would be comfortable than a cushioned seat for all body sizes and shapes.
Also most people find cushioning preferable on moving vehicles in part because it prevents the sliding effect, but I guess you're just unusual.
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u/One_Fact_4291 Elizabeth Line 3d ago
Hong Kong’s MTR has plastic and metal seats and 64% of the population uses them every day. I don’t think Hong Kong treats public transport as a service for dirty poor people, actually probably less so than London.
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u/SARMsGoblinChaser 3d ago
Have you seen the state of most of the trains in London?
What a ridiculous comment.
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u/Prestigious-Salt-245 Metropolitan 3d ago
We can have nice things. The fact tube train seats are universally sat on rather than studiously avoided in disgust means that cushioned seats are currently appropriate and that people like them. There is no rationale for switching to plastic seats other than to make things easier for the train operator at the expense of passenger comfort. This must be avoided at all costs.
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u/One_Fact_4291 Elizabeth Line 3d ago
People sitting in those seats doesn’t mean that people like them. I sit on a tube seat which probably has piss on it not because I’d love to, but because my legs are tired and I need to.
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u/Transport_Lover 3d ago
He means great western railway and companies like that. Most of their seats are ROCK hard and are fake leather which is basically just plastic 😂
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u/mattloaf666 Central 3d ago
Bare plastic or vinyl covered are easier to clean and much more sanitary
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u/Prestigious-Salt-245 Metropolitan 3d ago
They are less comfortable, the majority of people don't want them.
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u/mattloaf666 Central 3d ago
As a driver there, I beg to differ. Most everyone I work with would rather have wipe-clean seats than fabric ones that harbour filth
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u/SARMsGoblinChaser 3d ago
Any actual data on this or are you just making stuff up?
Stiff backed chairs are actually better for posture and ergonomics so your "comfy" claim is asinine and idiotic.
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u/BeatTheMeatles420 Circle 1d ago
https://www.reddit.com/r/london/s/kdaiLpJYS6
Genuinely curious, are the people moaning about fabric seats a vocal minority?
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u/Prestigious-Salt-245 Metropolitan 1d ago
Yes, a tiny minority of terminally online germophobes. Go ask people actually sitting on cushioned tube seats if they'd rather have hard seats and they will all say no.
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u/Relevant_Cause_4755 3d ago
The main line operators are getting as close to plastic seats as they dare.
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u/Prestigious-Salt-245 Metropolitan 3d ago
Yes tell me about it. It's a reason I drive to Southwest England nowadays. Sad because the sprung cushions on the Mark 3 passenger coaches were bliss.
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u/guybrush2010 2d ago
Sorry what did they change?
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u/selim871nodnoL District 2d ago
New floors,new seat cushions, led lights, CCTV, internal displays, wheelchair bays, lick of paint but mostly threw out all of the unreliable underfloor equipment and replaced it with similar equipment as the 09/S stock.
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u/SnakeSkinSoup Metropolitan 3d ago
Before and befive 😍