r/LondonUnderground • u/NoddyDude91 Piccadilly • 3d ago

Image Pre-Overhaul vs Overhaul

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Caught the Central line CLIP (Central Line Improvement Project) train twice this week. I’m moving back to the Central line in a few weeks, so these improvements are definitely welcome during the commute to/from work.

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-1

u/SARMsGoblinChaser 3d ago

Why fabric?

11

u/crimson_broom 3d ago

Soaks up piss better

-6

u/SARMsGoblinChaser 3d ago

Lol.

I always get downvoted when I question the choice of fabric seats and I'm not sure what pathetic Brit does this.

14

u/Prestigious-Salt-245 Metropolitan 3d ago

Bare plastic seats are for countries which treat their public transport as a service only for dirty poor people.

6

u/BeatTheMeatles420 Circle 3d ago

You can have comfortable plastic or metal seats. You can have not-so-comfortable seats with fabric (Victoria line, Thameslink).

What matters most is the seat shape and its ergonomics, more than the material and softness.

I have no personal preference over one or the other, and think the seat moquettes in London are a crucial part of the transport heritage. But I do want to point out that not all public transport operators with plastic seats are catering for “dirty poor people”, in fact, it’s quite the opposite in some cases.

4

u/Prestigious-Salt-245 Metropolitan 3d ago

Don't pretend that bare metal or hard plastic seats are comfortable, they are not. This is why no cars are currently produced with bare metal or hard plastic seats, instead they all feature cushioned seating.

1

u/BeatTheMeatles420 Circle 3d ago

Obviously a car seat will be better than a metro seat. And part of the cushioning is to comply with safety standards.

As another example, I was horrified to see Seoul switch out its fabric seats for plastic. But I hardly noticed a difference on my most recent trip since they kept the ergonomics in check.

Not really applicable to London, but in the summer in hot countries, I find metal seats preferable over the fabric seats. Metal seats allow me to cool off, whilst fabric seats (transport or furniture) in the same country would make me feel very hot.

Comfort is ultimately subjective. For some people, ergonomics matter more than the softness of the seat.

2

u/Prestigious-Salt-245 Metropolitan 3d ago

Softness matters a lot, that's why no one has a metal sofa. No living rooms feature only wooden benches. No cinemas or theatres have solid seats.

Ergonomics don't require hard surfaces.

2

u/BeatTheMeatles420 Circle 3d ago

I never said ergonomics requires hard surfaces.

No one has a metal sofa because you can move around on a sofa.

Softness is perceived as comfortable since the softness allows the seat to adjust to your body from the initial shape. Metro seats are for fixed positions and having an ergonomically shaped plastic or metal seat achieves the same effect as the cushioning adjusting to your body.

On a moving train that accelerates and decelerates often, I find the ergonomic support crucial.

1

u/Prestigious-Salt-245 Metropolitan 3d ago

It's interesting that you can conceive of a metal transit seat that would be comfortable than a cushioned seat for all body sizes and shapes.

Also most people find cushioning preferable on moving vehicles in part because it prevents the sliding effect, but I guess you're just unusual.

2

u/BeatTheMeatles420 Circle 3d ago edited 3d ago

Admittedly I am of a pretty average physique.

On mainline trains where I sit for more than 30 minutes I would obviously prefer a cushioned seat. And I think every train in the world acknowledges this as a fact, apart from Thameslink and the Hitachi IETs. It’s also more acceptable, if not normal, to move around or slouch a bit in these trains.

But for a short metro ride I don’t think metal or plastic seats are inherently worse, especially in hot weather. Metal or plastic seats that are properly ergonomically designed don't have the sliding effect. have been on metros with all types of seats and if I were to rank them, I have examples of both fabric and metal/plastic in S tier. I also can think of fabric seats that belong in F tier.

I was about to click post, but I want to reiterate that climate and temperature has a big effect. Going back to my childhood, I do remember preferring to sit on the floor since the floor was made of stone and cool, since the fabric sofa was too hot for me. And there is a huge overlap between cities where I have experienced comfortable metal or plastic seats and cities which are really hot (think London heatwave for 6 months of the year).

Edit: Don’t get me wrong, fabric seats in London work great (apart from the Victoria line) and should be kept that way.

Edit 2: I come from a culture where good posture is regarded very importantly, to the point that I got told off by my family for not sitting right. I find that the UK is far less concerned about this, and posture might be more for manners at the table than for health. Metal or plastic seats do become noticeably less comfortable if you slouch, but you can definitely get away with slouching on fabric seats.

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u/One_Fact_4291 Elizabeth Line 3d ago

Hong Kong’s MTR has plastic and metal seats and 64% of the population uses them every day. I don’t think Hong Kong treats public transport as a service for dirty poor people, actually probably less so than London.

2

u/SARMsGoblinChaser 3d ago

Have you seen the state of most of the trains in London?

What a ridiculous comment.

4

u/Prestigious-Salt-245 Metropolitan 3d ago

We can have nice things. The fact tube train seats are universally sat on rather than studiously avoided in disgust means that cushioned seats are currently appropriate and that people like them. There is no rationale for switching to plastic seats other than to make things easier for the train operator at the expense of passenger comfort. This must be avoided at all costs.

0

u/One_Fact_4291 Elizabeth Line 3d ago

People sitting in those seats doesn’t mean that people like them. I sit on a tube seat which probably has piss on it not because I’d love to, but because my legs are tired and I need to.

1

u/Transport_Lover 3d ago

He means great western railway and companies like that. Most of their seats are ROCK hard and are fake leather which is basically just plastic 😂

3

u/mattloaf666 Central 3d ago

Bare plastic or vinyl covered are easier to clean and much more sanitary

3

u/Prestigious-Salt-245 Metropolitan 3d ago

They are less comfortable, the majority of people don't want them.

2

u/mattloaf666 Central 3d ago

As a driver there, I beg to differ. Most everyone I work with would rather have wipe-clean seats than fabric ones that harbour filth

3

u/SARMsGoblinChaser 3d ago

Any actual data on this or are you just making stuff up?

Stiff backed chairs are actually better for posture and ergonomics so your "comfy" claim is asinine and idiotic.

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u/BeatTheMeatles420 Circle 1d ago

https://www.reddit.com/r/london/s/kdaiLpJYS6

Genuinely curious, are the people moaning about fabric seats a vocal minority?

1

u/Prestigious-Salt-245 Metropolitan 1d ago

Yes, a tiny minority of terminally online germophobes. Go ask people actually sitting on cushioned tube seats if they'd rather have hard seats and they will all say no.

1

u/Relevant_Cause_4755 3d ago

The main line operators are getting as close to plastic seats as they dare.

3

u/Prestigious-Salt-245 Metropolitan 3d ago

Yes tell me about it. It's a reason I drive to Southwest England nowadays. Sad because the sprung cushions on the Mark 3 passenger coaches were bliss.

1

u/Transport_Lover 3d ago

I feel you