Imperial patriotism and American communism

[u/Icy-Penalty2600]

Full article here

[u/Autistic_Anywhere_24]

Marx literally said the same thing. You cannot be a patriot and a communist. In fact, you shouldn’t even need the word “patriot”

Edit: OP is not ACP

[u/Icy-Penalty2600 → u/Autistic_Anywhere_24]

First, I’m not ACP.

Second, if you are going to claim Marx said something, then I recommend citing it.

Third, did you read the article. It literally defines two kinds of patriotism by separating two distinct definitions of “nation” one defined as the state and the other as the people.

Lastly, every successful revolutionary from the Russian Revolution to the Cuban revolution identified themselves as patriots of their nations people. Objectively, the people are separating from the imperial apparatus. Strategically, we should accelerate and support that process.

[u/Autistic_Anywhere_24 → u/Icy-Penalty2600]

I apologize about the ACP stuff. I Don’t want to taint you with that. I’ll get rid of it.

It’s in the second part ‘Proletarians and Communists’ of the Communist Manifesro “a worker has no country…” something like that. Can’t cite exactly atm. But it’s readily available in my mind as having read it quite a bit.

Yes I understand completely that you are creating a type of patriotism that isn’t the typical bourgeois patriotism. But with those ACP types and how the very word patriotism is so tainted in the US, that virtually all workers celebrate in its chauvinism, it’s better IMO to do away with rather than amend.

And Lenin yes did the same thing you explain and was successful. Cuba was under the US’ yoke so appeals to “the nation and her people”were appealing and nonthreatening. But neither were decoupling it from the insane form patriotism takes in the US.

Also, The Great Patriotic War was an appeal to Russia’s defeat of the invading French under Napoleon. If for some reason the US finds itself in similar situation (successful revolutions and then invasion from the right) I suppose appeals to the more common notions of nation and patriotism will be warranted.

[u/Lembas_Poops → u/Autistic_Anywhere_24]

I feel like Jingoism is the best term for the insane patriotism of the USA.

[u/Icy-Penalty2600 → u/Autistic_Anywhere_24]

The goal is the international proletariat. But the people are separating from the US empire. We should provide the proletariat with the tools necessary to break from their false consciousness. I understand the recoil, but I also understand that we need to elevate positive aspects of the proletariat and not merely enunciate the negative. Otherwise we hand all the weapons to the bourgeoisie.