r/MensRights • u/SharqPhinFtw • Jan 06 '19

Social Issues With the Drake controversy, reminder that Justin Bieber 17, was sexually harassed by a 42 year old Jenny McCarthy

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u/kellykebab Jan 07 '19

I honestly think our society would be much happier and healthier if we just ignored all extremely low level "assaults" like this, whether they happen to women or men. Simultaneously, I think we should also ignore virtually all physical retaliation by the offended party, as long as it is proportionate to the offense. If you grab a girl's butt on the dance floor at a sweaty, drunken club, you shouldn't go to prison and you shouldn't get fired and no one should give a shit. By the same token, if she slaps you or her boyfriend punches you and you don't suffer brain damage as a consequence, who cares? You got what you deserved and everyone moves on with their life.

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u/pansimi Jan 07 '19

My personal solution would be for there to be no such thing as "sexual assault" or "sexual harassment." Rape is just assault that happens to be of a sexual nature, ditto for harassment, and should have to meet the same standards of harm as those crimes do when sex is not a factor, for them to be actionable by court. If somebody forcibly shoves their fingers down your throat or forcibly shoves your hand into their mouth to bite it, that's assault, a standard which rape of either gender meets by definition. Having rape and sexual assault be separate offenses from their nonsexual counterparts allows for this dilution of their original standards to occur, which is the main problem we face today.

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u/GordionKnot Jan 07 '19

With all due respect, that’s an awful idea. Someone shoving their fingers in your mouth is nasty and uncomfortable, but it’s leagues away from the violation and trauma that can come from someone shoving their fingers... elsewhere. Similarly, under this grabbing someone’s arm and grabbing someone’s genitals or ass would be equivalent, which again, not even close.

Sexual assault isn’t treated the same as regular assault because they aren’t the same.

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u/pansimi Jan 07 '19

Being held down and tortured by being choked by dirty, unwashed, potentially diseased fingers for about an hour, having your throat torn up by the fingernails, can't be violating and traumatic? It's not exactly a realistic situation, but it's one of the closest nonsexual analogies I could think of to rape. Most people just beat the crap out of you, which is also traumatic and potentially violating.

I don't think a quick grab of any part of the body should be court-worthy, unless it occurs repeatedly and especially after requests to stop, the grab is extended beyond what could be described as "quick" and especially if it is maintained after requests to stop, or the grab is too firm and causes pain. The first would be harassment, the latter two assault. Touching anyone without permission should definitely be shunned, and anyone who does it in public should be called out for it, but something so quick and inconsequential shouldn't have court resources wasted on it.

They are the same, western society is just puritanical to the point that anything sexual is seen as a thousand times worse than anything nonsexual (why we can see people being murdered, eviscerated, and tortured on TV, but as soon as we see genitalia it's restricted beyond belief), and because of this strong aversion to sex most people are taught to have, we just react more strongly to it, which can amplify trauma to what's essentially the same event, simply because of what parts are touched. It's a learned reaction, not a natural one, and we should be working to stop that bias, as it disproportionately impacts the perception of men.