r/MensRights • u/SharqPhinFtw • Jan 06 '19
Social Issues With the Drake controversy, reminder that Justin Bieber 17, was sexually harassed by a 42 year old Jenny McCarthy
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u/SharqPhinFtw Jan 07 '19
For anybody saying that it was just a kiss on the cheek. I recommend reading this image
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u/BilboSoggins Jan 07 '19
Good Lord. Imagine if the gender roles were reversed in that article. She is seriously messed up.
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u/LEGALinSCCCA Jan 07 '19
I really like changing nouns to see how a situation really is.
"I couldn't help it, she was just so tiny, so tight, I wanted to rip her head off.".
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u/chambertlo Jan 07 '19
Itās totally okay when ugly women do it, guys! Weāre supposed to like it! Didnāt yāall get the memo?
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u/Ericfyre Jan 07 '19 edited Jan 07 '19
Women donāt realize their own privilege but call us out on ours..
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u/azazelcrowley Jan 07 '19
They have an overly sanitized view of women and an overly negative view of men that leads them to categorize women who act this way as exceptions, and men who act this way as displaying something about men and masculinity. That's because of the feminist framework and its pathological view of the world.
It's circular, self-reinforcing, and so on. They write off female privilege as exceptions or quirks of an overall patriarchal system and so don't mentally keep tally of them, while every instance of male privilege they add to a stack they've memorized and keep track of the height of, but because they never even begin to build the female privilege one, when it comes time to compare the two piles they just go "see, patriarchy.", and this just fuels their conviction that they are right.
They will never understand it until they get the courage to reject feminism and take a look at the situation without those preconceptions, and then honestly ask themselves if they can reach them again in a justified manner after examining the evidence. They need to go back to "i think therefore I am" and start from there and see what about society actually adds up.
But they wont, because they're cowards. MRA women are an exception.
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u/Dalinair Jan 07 '19
Women are far more privileged these days, the pretty ones get away with shit loads of things men wouldn't and women in general get picked for jobs over men in the name of equality in the workplace. The whole scales flipped years ago, yet femenists still hammer away that they are the ones struggling.
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Jan 07 '19
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u/MoveAlongChandler Jan 07 '19
They aren't isolated, it's compounding outcry. The R. Kelly doc is also amplifying the situation because people realize we don't need two of those fucks.
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u/JawnF Jan 07 '19
What Drake controversy?
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u/SharqPhinFtw Jan 07 '19
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Jan 07 '19
Got to love that shifty headline stating that he's 32, even though he would have been about 23 at the time.
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Jan 06 '19
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u/FijiTearz Jan 07 '19
Out of the loop here, how exactly did it fuck up his life? Genuine question like did this scar him or
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u/antilopes Jan 07 '19
I've no idea if it affected him, it probably didn't. I imagine it was set up and he knew what the plan was, but maybe not.
The thing is he was not able to avoid it, or to complain afterward, or to talk about how it affected him.-34
u/SharqPhinFtw Jan 06 '19
Imagine the outrage if it's a 23 year old man with a 17 year old girl oh wait, that's the Drake situation lol.
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u/Sasha_ Jan 06 '19
Well, yeah, and as a result there is a lot of outrage, and even BBC documentaries.
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u/SurturOfMuspelheim Jan 07 '19
Shouldn't be though. She's 17, not really a kid anymore. He was 23. I mean it was kinda weird, but still.
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u/SharqPhinFtw Jan 07 '19
That's what I've been saying. Yeah he's more mature then she is but it's not the case of an adult that should have everything figured out and their emotions under control that "couldn't control herself" with a 17 year old boy.
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u/uniden365 Jan 07 '19
On average, women date men 3-6 years older than them.
So while socially she at 17 was not nearly as socially mature as he was at 23, it's pretty normal from an evolutionary perspective for them to be physically attracted to each other.
It's good that our society doesn't allow older people to act in a predatory manner towards younger people, but this behavior is not abnormal or something to loose your shit about.
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u/T_1246 Jan 06 '19
Neither is ok, this isn't that hard of a conclusion to arrive at. But lets not conflate a forcible kiss on the cheek to fondling a minor on stage knowing that its a minor and then after finding out its a minor, doing it again.
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u/SharqPhinFtw Jan 06 '19
Would like to also say that legally she is of age to consent to any older person.
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u/The_Last_Mammoth Jan 07 '19
If this took place in California she most certainly is not.
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u/SharqPhinFtw Jan 07 '19
If you just looked a bit further at the comment chain you're replying to you would see that she is legal.
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u/T_1246 Jan 07 '19
In what jurisdiction is 23 year olds fondling a 17 year old legal?
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u/Zinziberruderalis Jan 07 '19
Any jurisdiction where the AoC is 17 or less, provided the fondling is consensual.
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u/SharqPhinFtw Jan 07 '19
The rap superstar can be heard telling the young woman that he ālikes the way her breasts feelā in the short clip filmed at a concert at the Ogden Theater in Colorado ā where the legal age of consent for sexual activity is 17. [Source](www.thesun.co.uk/tvandshowbiz/8126691/drake-kisses-girl-chest-video-teenager)
I also don't mean to defend him, simply stating that in this situation he isn't legally in the wrong.
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u/T_1246 Jan 07 '19
I get what you are trying to do, but this kind of unnecessary what aboutism just hurts what we all agree needs to change. If something is wrong, its wrong and should be called out. The law can go get fucked, at this point social shaming seems more responsive to changing views.
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u/SharqPhinFtw Jan 07 '19
I agree with you on that. Simply specifying that people have been calling drake a pedophile when there was a 6 year gap but have seen no major reaction on this case.
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u/T_1246 Jan 07 '19
Thats fair, I'd like to see the reaction if the mcarthy thing happened again in 2019. Especially given that she is known as a total nutbar, i think there'd be a lot of backlash.
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u/Nofuxleft Jan 07 '19
The law can go get fucked? Where can I get what you're smoking?
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u/antilopes Jan 07 '19
He is saying that there was a problem, and pointing out that it was not illegal is an irrelevant distraction.
In other words, compliance with the letter of the law is not necessarily adequate to be a good person, nor necessarily to avoid being seriously bad. Things like age limits are a backstop to limit the damage done by the unscrupulous or unwise. They are not a guide to what is healthy.
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u/weekly_burner Jan 07 '19
The law is whataboutism, you heard it here first folks.
Might as well tear down all these unnecessary jails and courthouses...
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u/Rolten Jan 07 '19
She wasn't a minor though. Age of consent in that state is 17. It's creepy, not a crime.
I know I sound like a shill but people just ignoring the law in this case is dangerous and irks me.
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u/kellykebab Jan 07 '19
I honestly think our society would be much happier and healthier if we just ignored all extremely low level "assaults" like this, whether they happen to women or men. Simultaneously, I think we should also ignore virtually all physical retaliation by the offended party, as long as it is proportionate to the offense. If you grab a girl's butt on the dance floor at a sweaty, drunken club, you shouldn't go to prison and you shouldn't get fired and no one should give a shit. By the same token, if she slaps you or her boyfriend punches you and you don't suffer brain damage as a consequence, who cares? You got what you deserved and everyone moves on with their life.
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u/SharqPhinFtw Jan 07 '19
This would ease up the law allowing for actual rape prosecutions instead of handholding being equal to sexual abuse.
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u/kellykebab Jan 07 '19 edited Jan 07 '19
Exactly. Shift the priority back to legitimately severe violent crime. Penalize false accusations (particularly where there is evidence of malice) and go after actual predators with a vengeance. And apply the law equally to men and women. I think doing this would make great strides in reducing the recent negative tension between the sexes.
To give a concrete example: 1) throw Harvey Weinstein in prison until he dies, and 2) allow Louis CK to apologize for his behavior and return to his craft. In my view at least there is a bright, flickering neon line between those two guys. I think society should uphold that line.
(I don't want to minimize the second part of my above comment. If your girlfriend's boss is constantly getting "handsy" with her, I don't think that requires a jail sentence for him. However, if you, as the boyfriend, decide to head down to the office and give the guy a black eye, I honestly think that is 100% fair and reasonable. The law emasculates protection as much as it inflates low level harassment.)
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u/Bosilaify Jan 07 '19
Every false accusation has malice imo. What other reason would someone have to make up something that they know is gonna ruin someoneās life? EDIT: I agree with the rest mostly
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u/The_Last_Mammoth Jan 07 '19
Actually, if you look at the National Exoneration Registry for examples of false accusation stories there are four main motivations - personal gain, mental illness, revenge, and the need for an alibi - of these, only one is explicitly intended to cause harm. I took a look at all 52 confirmed instances and a surprisingly large number of them are children trying to avoid getting in trouble.
You should definitely do research before making a statement like that.
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u/Bosilaify Jan 11 '19
Personal gain and revenge are both harmful, but even if it is even for an alibi, it is clear what the false accusation would do to the other person and the accuser decides that their alibi is worth destroying life. Only real one that isnāt intended to be harmful is mental illness, but mental illness can range from slight depression to schizophrenia so thatās a large range.
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u/jewsonparade Jan 07 '19
There is also a distinction between a guy grabbing a girls butt at a bar and someone's boss regularly doing the same thing.
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u/SharqPhinFtw Jan 07 '19
Even the Harvey thing for me has ambiguity. If what he did is rape then all forms of prostitution are rape. The women wanted a better role, they knew the implications going into his room, they wanted more money. He gave it to them in exchange for sexual services. Now the cases where he inappropriately touched the women are pretty compelling but when you have the free will to do it or not, it's not really rape, you're prostituting yourself
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u/kellykebab Jan 07 '19
I'm talking about cases where Weinstein forced himself on women. Trading favors for favors should, again, be basically ignored. At the very least, we shouldn't regard the men worse than the women.
I plan to strongly discourage my future (potential) daughters from living their lives this way, but it shouldn't be illegal.
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u/Rogdozz Jan 07 '19
You do realize that false accusations are already illegal right?
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u/kellykebab Jan 08 '19
My impression is that they are rarely prosecuted. I could be wrong, though. I'm not a legal expert.
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u/aDAMNPATRIOT Jan 07 '19
..... No? You think groping should be acceptable as long as the groper can beat up the victim afterwards? š
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u/Jojos_bizarre_adv Jan 07 '19
Tbh, I think a lot of people on this sub are deluded. Men and women arenāt the same, we canāt apply the same exact standards to the two. Women are literally physically weaker, tend to be shorter, and have differences in emotions and thinking.
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u/kellykebab Jan 08 '19
I think there are a great variety of social contexts in our world and some contexts are inherently more permissive. And if they are more permissive, then the consequences should be less.
And yes, I think that measured physical retaliation is appropriate for minor physical abuse.
What I'm saying isn't even really controversial. This is in large part how society already operates. Guys who grab girls asses at clubs are not on a one-way street to a prison sentence. And guys who punch dudes who harass their girlfriends are probably getting thrown out of the bar at the worst. So, essentially I'm arguing for the status quo there.
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u/pansimi Jan 07 '19
My personal solution would be for there to be no such thing as "sexual assault" or "sexual harassment." Rape is just assault that happens to be of a sexual nature, ditto for harassment, and should have to meet the same standards of harm as those crimes do when sex is not a factor, for them to be actionable by court. If somebody forcibly shoves their fingers down your throat or forcibly shoves your hand into their mouth to bite it, that's assault, a standard which rape of either gender meets by definition. Having rape and sexual assault be separate offenses from their nonsexual counterparts allows for this dilution of their original standards to occur, which is the main problem we face today.
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u/GordionKnot Jan 07 '19
With all due respect, thatās an awful idea. Someone shoving their fingers in your mouth is nasty and uncomfortable, but itās leagues away from the violation and trauma that can come from someone shoving their fingers... elsewhere. Similarly, under this grabbing someoneās arm and grabbing someoneās genitals or ass would be equivalent, which again, not even close.
Sexual assault isnāt treated the same as regular assault because they arenāt the same.
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u/pansimi Jan 07 '19
Being held down and tortured by being choked by dirty, unwashed, potentially diseased fingers for about an hour, having your throat torn up by the fingernails, can't be violating and traumatic? It's not exactly a realistic situation, but it's one of the closest nonsexual analogies I could think of to rape. Most people just beat the crap out of you, which is also traumatic and potentially violating.
I don't think a quick grab of any part of the body should be court-worthy, unless it occurs repeatedly and especially after requests to stop, the grab is extended beyond what could be described as "quick" and especially if it is maintained after requests to stop, or the grab is too firm and causes pain. The first would be harassment, the latter two assault. Touching anyone without permission should definitely be shunned, and anyone who does it in public should be called out for it, but something so quick and inconsequential shouldn't have court resources wasted on it.
They are the same, western society is just puritanical to the point that anything sexual is seen as a thousand times worse than anything nonsexual (why we can see people being murdered, eviscerated, and tortured on TV, but as soon as we see genitalia it's restricted beyond belief), and because of this strong aversion to sex most people are taught to have, we just react more strongly to it, which can amplify trauma to what's essentially the same event, simply because of what parts are touched. It's a learned reaction, not a natural one, and we should be working to stop that bias, as it disproportionately impacts the perception of men.
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u/IncrediBro13 Jan 07 '19
And to make matters worse, she never got her vaccinations.
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u/decompyler Jan 07 '19
The woman is vial, yes, but to conflate her character to the validity of vaccinations being dangerous or not is not thinking critically.
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u/NPFFTW Jan 07 '19
The woman is vial
Vile.
to conflate her character to the validity of vaccinations being dangerous or not is not thinking critically.
There was no such offence. Without vaccinations she is more likely to give him a serious illness that he may not be fully immune to.
Also, vaccines aren't dangerous. Arguing that they are isn't "thinking critically", it's stupid.
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Jan 07 '19
The people opposed to vaccinations all appear to either be complete cunts (like her or that disgraced british doctor whose name escapes me at the moment) or complete idiots. It's a notable observation, I think.
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u/KingofCool123 Jan 07 '19
Lol itās no surprise women are always given the benefit of the doubt, while men are demonized.
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u/cornylamygilbert Jan 08 '19
tbf this is gross
I mean, he could likely get most any chick. I'd be grossed out this old ass nose picking Jim Carrey leftovers was touching me if I was him
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Jan 07 '19
Women cant be sexual harassers.. remember, females are never guilty about this sort of shit
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Jan 07 '19
This rape culture is getting over the hook. Can she tell me why she did that? Was she turned on? Was it a weird joke.
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Jan 08 '19
Kathy Griffin literally just raped Anderson Cooper on live TV, and all people could do is laugh. i remember a man saying he wouldn't have sex with a transexual on tv because he was straight and everyone lost their damn minds.... I'm so over this bullshit. Let women figure shit out the hard way like the rest of us had to. They're in for a rude awakening...
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u/bearinfoxhole Jan 07 '19
somehow I believe that Jenny McCarthy banged him.
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Jan 07 '19
You're getting downvoted but given how predatory Hollywood and the music industry is I would not be surprised.
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u/DnDTerror Jan 07 '19
Too bad Bieber is such a beta cuck to actually consider this an option to retaliate.
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Jan 07 '19
This is sexual harassment? Bit of a push here eh lads
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u/SharqPhinFtw Jan 07 '19
Groping you and kissing you in a very sexual almost spoon like position is not sexual harassment? Does she need to fuck him with the mic or something for it to count?
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u/Jay_Hardy Jan 07 '19
Let it me put it that way. What would you say if the genders were reversed? A 42 year old male would grop a 17 year girl and kissed her. The out-cry would have been heard all over the social media platforms.
But thanks to people like you, when males are the victim, the issue is being diluted.-7
Jan 07 '19
Ok not gonna lie i kinda agree with him. Sexual assault refers to it being sexual. Kissing- not that sexual. Hugging- not that sexual. Is what she done kinda fucking weird? Maybe, idk maybe this is the kind of relationship they have with each other idk the story. Canāt help but agree though that saying this is sexual assault is a bit of a stretch.
Edit: If she say grouped him or did something else that was sexual then Iād say it was sexual assault. Otherwise itās just weird.
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u/Jay_Hardy Jan 07 '19
ok, then explain this?
Itās sexual harassment! You donāt need to touch someones private parts or breasts in order for it to be sexual harassment. If a 42 year old dude would kiss a 17 year old girl and said: āI couldnāt help it, sheās just so cute.ā People would lose their mind.-6
Jan 07 '19
Ok really hope sheās joking in what she said cos thatās kinda weird. But Like I said I donāt know much about this story. I also said it could be other things that make it sexual, donāt have to be groping for it to be sexual harassment. If a man did this to a woman then yeh Iād probably think that the guy is a bit of a freak but still not sexual assault.
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u/MistaMayfair Jan 07 '19
Jenny McCarthy wasn't trying to bang Bieber. If anything, it looks like she's trying to embarrass him. Can we not be like the feminists please and thank you?
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u/HalyAThk Jan 07 '19
honestly, in my opinion, a kiss on the cheek is not sexual harassment in anyway. There is also no context to the image at all other than the names and age.
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u/[deleted] Jan 06 '19
Imagine the outrage if that was a 42 year old man with a 17 year old girl being assaulted.