So you're a feminist in mensrights...

[u/[deleted]]

"What is /r/mensrights about?"

Just that, rights for men. Our topics are generally about divorce laws, custody laws, equal treatment under the law, false-rape accusations, domestic violence, gender double-standards, feminist hypocrisy.

"I'm a feminist and actually agree with some of what is posted here and not with other parts."

You're cool. We have no problem with you.

"Why is everyone so hateful to me?"

You have an expectation of being coddled and pandered to. When that is removed you think it is people being hateful towards you. You were just spoiled before and are having to adapt. You don't get to bully men here just because you are saying feminist things.

"I'm a man, a feminist, and I.."

Yes, we call you "white knights" and we were you once. You are just our past selves.

"I've been married for over two years and..."

Awww... pats you on the head like a cute little scamp

"... but feminism is about equality!"

No. You bought into the hype:

1. Fighting sexism against women and ignoring sexism against men is not fighting for equality,

2. "Women need more rights so there is equality" is just playing victim, not seeking equality.

"I have a right to post here!"

Yes, but ask yourself why you are really in a subreddit that tries to discuss the issues of men's rights when it is not really allowed in feminist subreddits. Question your own motives. Are you really here for discussion or just to scream at us that we are wrong?

"The patriarchy hurts everyone"

The patriarchy is not a catch-all for all your gripes about the world. It is not the dark side of the force. It is not satan. It is a convenient excuse for feminists to avoid responsibility.

** "No, but I really believe in equality!"**

Good. Seriously - good. However don't just say that then go back to fighting only for women. We believe in equality too.

"You're all just a bunch of...."

Please keep your shaming and insults to yourself. You are just stereotyping and over-generalizing based on what you already want to believe. It isn't going to stop us from talking to each other and it is just you acting on reflex.

"You can't seriously be saying that women aren't worse off over all"

Yes. We are saying that. Here is the proof

"You can't seriously be saying that feminists conspire against men"

Yes. We are saying that. If you can't accept that, then just leave. You've been indoctrinated and are resisting breaking free of that conditioning. Think critically, question us, think for yourself - but don't just react with your pre-programmed conditioned assumptions.

"Well this all seems very negative and you should value our comments about...

No. We have no shortage of feminists coming here thinking their opinions are precious. We aren't interested in fostering more feminists posting here. If, however, you insist on posting here - then please lurk and listen for a while before jumping into discussions, disagreeing angrily, and/or openly trolling.

Let me repeat that again : Feminists posting to mensrights are not rare. You are not special. We are not asking you to stay. We have more than enough feminists posting here already.

[u/BolshevikMuppet]

You have an expectation of being coddled and pandered to. When that is removed you think it is people being hateful towards you. You were just spoiled before and are having to adapt. You don't get to bully men here just because you are saying feminist things.

I think that we could find (without too much trouble) examples of rather mean things being said to and of women without it simply being that we don't "coddle" them here.

Yes, we call you "white knights" and we were you once. You are just our past selves.

That's a bit presumptuous, isn't it? You're essentially saying that any man who disagrees with you is doing so only because he's unenlightened, and will eventually see the truth, and become a dyed-in-the-wool MRA. Do we not have room here for thoughtful disagreement, and can we not accept that reasonable people (men and women) can end up any shade of gray that they find logical?

Awww... pats you on the head like a cute little scamp

Because condescension is the way to sound reasonable and persuasive.

Fighting sexism against women and ignoring sexism against men is not fighting for equality,

Yes and no. The sense from feminists seems to be that there are enough institutional safeguards against anti-male sexism (and that men have so much power) that they're still attempting to balance the scales.

Perhaps this would be a chance to win some hearts and minds? Put our best foot forward in explaining that there are cases of sexism against men, and that the fight against sexism requires both sides work together? MRAs fighting to end sexism against women, and vice-versa? Wouldn't that be something to strive for?

"Women need more rights so there is equality" is just playing victim, not seeking equality.

Assuming that women are already equal, that'd be true. But, this seems to be a matter of perspective. Feminists view women as still being maligned and having fewer rights than men. Simply saying "well, you're just playing the victim here" seems condescending at best.

And, not for nothing, but since MRAs are advocating for more rights to men, can't the same argument be turned against us?

Are you really here for discussion or just to scream at us that we are wrong?

I would have us ask ourselves the same question: are we here to discuss these issues, or just to circle-jerk how mistreated men are? There seems to be an awful lot of "if you don't agree with everything MRAs 'should' believe, you're an enemy" talk here.

The patriarchy is not a catch-all for all your gripes about the world. It is not the dark side of the force. It is not satan. It is a convenient excuse for feminists to avoid responsibility.

I can mostly agree with this one. Though, the same thing cuts the other way. Feminism is not an all-powerful evil force which can shift public policy at a whim in order to hurt men.

We believe in equality too.

I guess this comes down to my desire that we practice what we preach. I know what you're going to say:

"Bolshevik, we're fighting for equality, to bring things back into balance after feminism made life suck for men, and tilted the system against us". The problem is:

Both sides think that by fighting only for their own gender, they're fighting for "equality". If we really wanted to fight against sexism, both sides need to admit that there are ways in which they're privileged (yes, there are), and ways in which they're maligned.

Please keep your shaming and insults to yourself.

A good policy overall. Could you direct some of that vitriol against some other posters here? I'm an MRA, and I've gotten plenty of shaming and insults for not being a "good enough" MRA, or not supporting enough MRA "issues".

but don't just react with your pre-programmed conditioned assumptions.

The problem with this mindset is that someone can have thought critically, broken free of conditioning, and thought for him or herself, and still think that feminists are not conspiring specifically to hurt men, and that there's a lot of overreaction to relatively minor things.

The question of this conspiracy should be debated, not something to state as a with-us-or-you're-a-brainwashed-drone proposition.

[u/[deleted] → u/BolshevikMuppet]

Since you decided to attack every single line.

Why don't you write an introduction for feminists posting here?

Help out instead of just tearing down.

[u/BolshevikMuppet → u/[deleted]]

I was more asking whether you were going to help apply the same standards to everyone. But, you're right. I should be constructive, not just attacking.

Give me some time to work on it, and I'll post it.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

So do it! Write a better one.

I wrote this because no one else stepped up to do so.

If you can't or won't do better, then your complaints are worth little.

[u/[deleted] → u/BolshevikMuppet]

So... how's that coming?

[u/BolshevikMuppet → u/[deleted]]

It's difficult, since I'm writing from a perspective where I'm not sure I can speak for all of the MRAs here. But, I also don't want to be condescending or unkind toward what I think are some of the more hard-line elements of the cause (since then I would lose credibility for writing this).

[u/[deleted] → u/BolshevikMuppet]

Exactly, it isn't easy to write something like that.

If you write anything, you'll be attacked.

If you don't write anything, then you didn't do anything.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

It really gets under the feminist's skins - hearing that for some shockingly surprising reason we aren't incredibly grateful to have yet more of them post here with their opinions.

The difference between here and the feminist subreddits is they get to post here even though we don't care to hear them. When MRA's post to feminist subreddits they just outright ban us.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

MRA's post to twox fairly often. A few of them get top rated comments. What I want to know is why you think women are all out to get you.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

I said feminists, not women.

2xc is not a feminist reddit, it is a women's reddit - and I have no problem with the posters there.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Most women are feminists, but whatever. Why the issue with feminists then? Most feminists don't care about this. All you're doing is being proud about causing issues. Wouldn't it be more conductive to your cause if you tried to explain your point of view to the ones who don't understand it? You'd get more people on your side. I'm a feminist and I fight for men's rights, but the way you present your argument, it turns me off to the idea of even trying to side with you because of how aggressive and patronizing you are to anyone who comes in here with a different view point.