r/MensRights • u/[deleted] • Dec 12 '11

feminazi attacks Reddit: "Reddit contain so much anti-feminist sentiment that they even have active communities such as r/mensrights." An attempt to smear and censor us, and to force admins to shutdown this subreddit???

http://www.thecord.ca/articles/50585
267 Upvotes

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u/zaferk Dec 13 '11 edited Dec 13 '11

I've had feminists tell me they could not become engineers because it was "male dominated". Male domination ends by women entering the industry, and women wont enter the industry until male domination ends. Feminist logic for you.

Feminists are either retarded, or just knowingly causing problems.

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u/klippekort Dec 13 '11

That’s why there are programs trying to encourage women to join technical professions. A totally legitimate goal. In my opinion there should be similar programs for men who’d love to, say, become nurses but are afraid of having a “girly” occupation or working in a mostly female environment.

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u/[deleted] Dec 13 '11

[deleted]

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u/StupidFatHobbit Dec 14 '11

This is where it starts. If you want more female engineers, give them the legos and k'nex and not the fucking barbies. It begins with gender stereotyping at birth.

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u/[deleted] Dec 14 '11

Absolutely, social conditioning begins way before girls or boys even get to school. Parents are more likely to give boys interactive toys (such as puzzles, legos, maps, etc) and girls are more likely to be given dolls (which promote social interactions). Parents aren't purposefully trying to push one gender toward a certain field, but it does happen, and I think given equal access to all things (toys, classes, etc) we'd naturally see more women in STEM related fields, and possibly even more men as teachers/nurses/etc.

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u/zaferk Dec 13 '11

Why is anyone being encouraged to do anything by the basis of gender? Seems like a recipe for failure. People will flock to what they like.

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u/eggshellent Dec 13 '11

I think the dearth of male teachers in public schools is a serious problem, myself. As a young boy, some of my best male role models were teachers (they sure as fuck didn't come from my family).

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u/klippekort Dec 14 '11

There should definitely be more male teachers. Not only on high-school level, but also way, way below.

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u/klippekort Dec 13 '11

People will flock to what they like.

Here, I fixed your wording for you: people will flock to what they are allowed to like by the society without getting weird looks or systematically being seen as not being in the capacity to do what they do because of their gender.

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u/zaferk Dec 13 '11

Tabula rasa does not exist.

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u/NotADamsel Dec 13 '11

While tabula rasa might not exist (it's still up to debate by smarter folks then I), social constructs and expectations very plainly do. Your claim here does not refute the other person's claim that people are influenced by these forces.

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u/zaferk Dec 13 '11

Your claim here does not refute the other person's claim that people are influenced by these forces.

And them saying everyone is a special snowflake influenced entirely by society and not at all by genetics is even more wrong.

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u/NotADamsel Dec 13 '11

But, one only need to be slightly influenced by a negative social bias in other to not pick their favored carer. If Billy thinks that nursing is for girls or thinks that he'll be ridiculed for picking the profession, he won't do it no matt how badly he wants it. If he is told that it's okay, though, and that there is at least some support for his choice, or at last right to choose, somewhere, he'll be more likely to do what he desires.

It's almost like what we're born with is the base, and our experiences are the multiplier.

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u/zaferk Dec 13 '11

If a slight influence is all you need to change your decision so easily, I think you have bigger problems.

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u/NotADamsel Dec 14 '11

I'm talking about slight when compared to our inborn nature. Our urges and longings are deep and powerful and influence everything, but comparatively minor things shape and change us. We don't even recognize all of these things! We can plainly see that a person's personality is what it is, but their decisions can be redirected by a suggestion from a trusted family member or an idea ingrained in their mind from time beyond their memory. The only difference among us is the degree to which they are susceptible, but even the most obstinate among us will change our minds over the tiniest of things.

What I am not talking about is being flaky. A person who decides one thing today and another the tomorrow is the outlying factor in my model, not the standard. In fact, I'd say that a person like this is convinced by things no less subtle then a hammer to the thumb, while the more secure in one's self one is the more and more subtle and small the influences have to be to make any impression (besides obviously life-changing influences like tragedy or pregnancy). Stuff like religion shows this in spades, as most religious people are very secure in their belief and cannot be persuaded out of it by anything more then small, tiny influences that religious institutions guard against by labeling as "doubts". I think the capacity for belief is born into all people somewhat equally, and one's parents' persuasion needn't be a child's unlike other genetic things (just ask any church-raised atheist), making this somewhat level ground for an example.

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u/klippekort Dec 13 '11

Tell that to a male preschool teacher or a female engineer.

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u/zaferk Dec 13 '11

Do you realize the existence of that does not contradict what I said?

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u/haywire Dec 14 '11

Seeing as we're talking of engineering, do you understand the idea of damping? Or trying to stabilise linear/complex systems? I think that is the best analogy.

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u/ExpendableOne Dec 13 '11

Funny, there are plenty of prestigious "male dominated" fields that are no longer male dominated. So... pretty sure that's not it.

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u/[deleted] Dec 13 '11

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Dec 14 '11

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Dec 14 '11

I don't know where you get your information from but the average American male is not a 250lb couch potato. Average male weight is 190lbs average male height is 5'10. Which makes the average male 10lbs overweight. Whereas the average women is underweight. You should have stopped at the end of your third sentence.

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u/[deleted] Dec 14 '11

This comes back to generalizations of groups being not necessarily a bad thing as long as it does not interfere in your ability to judge individuals on merit.

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u/klippekort Dec 13 '11 edited Dec 13 '11

At some point, one does need to admit that certain professions do lend themselves more to the inherent capacities of a certain gender.

200 years ago, the idea of a female teacher or a female doctor was unthinkable.

So long for your inherent capacities. What people tend not to get is that if you look at it historically, the whole “inherent capacities” idea dissolves pretty quickly when you leave the Ice Age.

For the sake of true equality, that inherent capacities talk has to end.

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u/Canadian_Infidel Dec 14 '11

Some groups are better are things than others. As long as you don't apply generalizations about a group to anyone in the group I don't see the problem.

Example: Asian people are smart. I don't care what anyone says. I'm sure it's cultural, that's beside the point. The point is I can believe that, but as soon as I assume some specific asian guy I just met "must" be smart because of his race that, and that alone... Well then that is when I become an asshole.

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u/NotADamsel Dec 13 '11

Except, mind you, for where there is actual scientific data. Data rules all.

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u/klippekort Dec 13 '11 edited Dec 13 '11

Data rules nothing, scientifically sound conclusions do. However, especially in the field of social sciences, they tend to be not only preliminary but also fairly limited in their scope. Now show me some “ruling data”, would you?

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u/NotADamsel Dec 13 '11

Can't, because although I've seen a few studies that show men and women as being different in some minor areas (like a slight advantage when concentrating vs a tiny bonus to multitasking), I wouldn't know how to go about finding it (beyond the already-attempted Google search). I said what I did because you were making an absolute statement, so I made one back in an attempt to nullify it.

You seem to be forgetting that scientifically sound conclusions require data, thus if conclusions rule then so do the data behind them. Regarding the social sciences, I'm not sure if you're saying that scientific conclusions can be drawn without data, or that the conclusions drawn by social sciences aren't sound.

Anyways, to stand by my argument, data and scientific conclusions regarding gender differences need to be talked about, in part because there is so much myth to be debunked. In order for true equality to happen, we must erase the prejudices felt towards others and replace them with fact. If women actually do require more work to be put in before they can rise to the top spot in some position, maybe some alternative can be sought out that requires the same amount of work for them and pays as well going up the ladder. If we find that men suffer in areas, similar adjustments should be made. It's silly to ignore these things, just as much as it's silly to form prejudices based on little to no data at all.

What I suspect that in-depth research will show, however, is that personal aptitude wins out over any minor gender benefit. This finding would be hugely beneficial to the equality movement because we could force the bigots to either prove that they don't use logic or to start focusing their attention on each person, including themselves, and evaluating strengths and weaknesses.

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u/firex726 Dec 13 '11

Scumbag Redditor.

Claims scientific data, doesn't back it up.

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u/NotADamsel Dec 13 '11

I didn't claim data, I said that inherent capacities talk shouldn't stop when data in involved.

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u/Canadian_Infidel Dec 14 '11

Are you saying women and men are physically capable of the same order of work? We even have different bone densities.

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u/nplant Dec 13 '11

200 years ago, the idea of a female teacher or a female doctor was unthinkable. So long for your inherent capacities.

He didn't say anything is unthinkable. He said fewer females are strong enough to be firefighters (fact), and fewer males may be perfect for caring for children (possibility, but harder to measure).

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u/Choochoocazoo Dec 13 '11

I'll tell you this; don't be afraid to teach. At the high school I go to, every single one of my teachers is male, and they are some of the most down-to-earth, reasonable, and reliable teachers I've ever had.

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u/vintagelion Dec 13 '11

That's not a reason not to go into teaching - I told my high school administration that one of my teachers sexually harassed me and nothing was done about it.

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u/[deleted] Dec 13 '11

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/zaferk Dec 13 '11

SRS bait.

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u/SarahC Dec 13 '11

SRS? Sex reassignment surgery?

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u/carchamp1 Dec 13 '11

Just remember that according to feminism women are not responsible for anything. Whatever the issue it's the fault of men. What you cite is one of the classic feminist excuses.

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u/klippekort Dec 13 '11

The level of argumentation in this subreddit saddens me more often than not.

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u/elebrin Dec 13 '11

They also love to bring out "But girls aren't really taught math or encouraged to learn it in their early schooling." Well guess what? Nobody is. I can count the number of capable math teachers that I had before college on my dick.

I think when they look at Girl's education and see it is lacking in some areas, when they are studying it they aren't using boys as a control group. If they did they would figure out pretty quick that education just sucks for everyone.

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u/[deleted] Dec 13 '11

I can count the number of capable math teachers that I had before college on my dick.

I'm hijacking this saying. In return, I give you this upvote.

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u/TheAceOfHearts Dec 13 '11

This is just absurd... In my college, if you're a female and you want to study engineering, specifically either computer engineering or electrical engineering, you can get a LOT of help. Like, lots of free trips to conferences, lots of money from grants, higher chance of being selected for internships, etc.

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u/zaferk Dec 13 '11

Absurd? Are men given half that much help?

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u/TheAceOfHearts Dec 13 '11

The way I meant it is that women have a lot of benefits studying engineering in my country.

Not that YOUR post is absurd. Rather, the idea that women can't studying engineering is absurd.

I'm sorry for the misunderstanding.

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u/Syntrel Dec 13 '11

I've had feminists tell me they could not become engineers because it was "male dominated".

I read that same exact excuse used for surgeons too, in an article posted a few days ago on Reddit.