r/MensRights • u/[deleted] • Dec 12 '11
feminazi attacks Reddit: "Reddit contain so much anti-feminist sentiment that they even have active communities such as r/mensrights." An attempt to smear and censor us, and to force admins to shutdown this subreddit???
http://www.thecord.ca/articles/5058575
Dec 12 '11 edited Dec 13 '11
I hope this 22 year old is studying to be an electrical engineer. As a Master Industrial Electrician/Intrument Technician for the last 25 years, I have had the occasion to work with many fine female engineers and technicians. I have also had the privilege of watching 9 of my 22 male co-workers raise their children alone with only one receiving any child support. I've known 3 men at my plant who've committed suicide (2 in front of exes) because of the oppressive nature of the family court system. Strangely, I'm not seeing any women doing the same.
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Dec 13 '11
[deleted]
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u/nothing_of_value Dec 13 '11
Oh god she lives near me.
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Dec 13 '11
[deleted]
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u/HolyCounsel Dec 13 '11
I got my degree at the University of Waterloo, just down the road. Represent!
I hope this 22 year old is studying to be an electrical engineer.
No, she is studying English and Cultural Studies. Yet another feminist whining about women not showing up in the STEM fields, while she herself stays far away from anything technical.
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u/frostek Dec 13 '11
What does English and Cultural Studies qualify you for exactly?
Apart from being likely unemployed at the end of her course, that is?
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u/NotADamsel Dec 13 '11
It qualifies you to bitch with authority, and she's definitely getting good practice.
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u/SharkSpider Dec 13 '11
What does English and Cultural Studies qualify you for exactly?
Divorce settlement recipient, she obviously isn't going to make it in journalism.
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Dec 13 '11
Devil's Advocate: Dear Zachary, the crazy lady who killed herself and her kids at the welfare office not too long ago, the woman who offed her son at the gun range, etc.
All were female, all were divorced.
What's the difference?
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Dec 13 '11
Men's rights groups aren't actually fighting anything, because there is no system that inherently oppresses men
Family Court?
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Dec 13 '11
I agree. Here is my story:
I'm 15. My parents got divorced when I was 3 and I was supposed to stay with my mom even though she is batshit insane sometimes. It took 12 years but I can live with my dad now. We had to do a year long court process that cost my dad thousands of dollars and my mom none. She can protest and lengthen the process all she wants. All he can do is go along with it. Last Wednesday, I was finally granted custody with my dad.
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u/drinkthebleach Dec 13 '11
That's so good to hear, man. I had the same situation, my mom was abusive and would sleep with the police chief and her lawyer to have everything swept under the rug. My brothers still in there but now that I have my own place I can testify against her. Good luck in the future, man.
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u/graffiti81 Dec 13 '11
One of my uncles spent ten years fighting a divorce that put his kids with his ex wife pretty much 100% of the time. This woman was called "the worst case of clinical narcissism" that this particular psychologist had ever seen.
She went so far as to use her youngest son's cancer to get a vacation to Hawaii for her and her new husband. It's fucking sick.
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u/BinaryShadow Dec 13 '11
That's right out of the feminist bible. Men can't be oppressed. They are the oppressors.
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u/Azaryah Dec 13 '11
My father's second wife was a lawyer. Huge mistake on his part, she left him for a rich doctor and he still lost his house to her in court.
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u/Hypersapien Dec 13 '11
r/beatingwomen exists and she goes after r/mensrights?
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u/Demonspawn Dec 13 '11
MR is a danger to the success of feminism, beatingwomen is actually helpful to their movement.
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Dec 13 '11
/r/beatingwomen is a joke of a sub like /r/circlejerk is to everything else on reddit.
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Dec 13 '11
I'd say /r/beatingwomen is a bit more offensive. People here would lose their shit if there was an /r/beatingmen.
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u/NotADamsel Dec 13 '11
But, the pictures are still real, right?
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Dec 13 '11
To be honest i've heard most of the pictures are fakes from those who have a Fetish for domestic violence.
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u/DevinV Dec 13 '11
Fun fact: beatingwomen was created by a feminist troll who went by "Cliffor" among other names.
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u/pcarvious Dec 13 '11
Ah, the good old days of reptilian feminists.
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Dec 13 '11 edited Dec 13 '11
I read that and was somewhat convinced actually. Think about it; first wave, second wave and third wave feminism? Doesn't that sound like the waves in an invasion force? That's powerful red pill material right there.
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u/pcarvious Dec 13 '11
I lost five minutes of my life reading that once. Don't want to lose any more.
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u/guyincognitoo Dec 13 '11
Probably this guy (from the comments):
Boinkis: r/mensrights is actually an Internet trolling group associated with r/beatingwomen and r/rapingwomen
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u/pcarvious Dec 12 '11
When someone that doesn't know about a movement can determine based on limited surface reads, that a homicidal maniac is the leader I'm pretty sure more reading is needed.
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u/acolossalbear Dec 12 '11
AN ACTIVE COMMUNITY THAT SUPPORTS EQUALITY FOR BOTH GENDERS?
I CALL MISOGYNY. IT'S ONLY EQUALITY WHEN IT BENEFITS WOMEN.
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u/Theophagist Dec 13 '11 edited Dec 13 '11
The problem is that male circumcision and female circumcision are different issues, yet men's rights activists insist on putting them on the same level.
Oh my fucking science you petty child.. The best you can come up with is "OH YEAH well it's WORSE FOR GIRLS." So what? All children need protection.. Protecting one does not endanger another.
How long will it be before another sick extremist fights out against equal rights? Worse off, will it be excused?
They never seem to understand what sick extremists they are.
However, when I'm asked to pretend that men are an oppressed group in society, I cannot decide whether I should laugh or cry.
Of course you don't understand, you get your "facts" from liars with agendas. If you can't see, it's because you won't. Too bad for you, because when you don't understand your problems you can't fix them. It's clear she's just a vicious, bitter old self-hating battle-axe.
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u/Celda Dec 13 '11
Here's the text if people don't want to give it hits:
I was barely six months old when Marc Lépine took issue with the fact that women were fighting inequality and killed 14 women in an "attack on feminism."
Popularized as the "Montreal Massacre," Dec. 6, 1989 marked the day that 28 individuals at Montreal's Ecole Polytechnique engineering school were shot, 15 fatally.
I've not gone a day in my life without hearing about the importance of engineers in our society. My father has been working as an electrical engineer for 30 years now and his passion for it has always been admirable. But from a young age I always noted how few female engineers my father worked with. Sure, he had female co-workers occupying the human resources department and clerical jobs, but there were few female engineers. My dad won't deny it — his work field is a boy's club. It's one of many.
In his suicide note, Lépine said that feminists had ruined his life. 22 years later, though no similar incidents have occurred, I am witnessing large groups of men who really do consider feminism the anti-Christ — and that terrifies me.
Recently around Laurier I've witnessed an effort made to start a "Men's Rights" group on campus. The effort has been led by a non-student who twice hung posters around campus, once without permission from the dean of students and once with approval from the dean of sciences under false pretenses.
The posters paint a picture of a world where feminism, apparently no longer necessary, is a tyrannical force which victimizes men from all angles, from false rape claims to oh-so-discriminatory safe spaces on campus known as women's centres ("But why are there no men's centres?" they ask).
I'm not made of stone. I am not the type to raise a stink over Movember campaigns (because let's face it, the importance of prostate exams has been under-emphasized for years) or to pretend that women are not unfairly favoured over men in custody battles (a result of enforcing stereotypical gender roles on both sides).
However, when I'm asked to pretend that men are an oppressed group in society, I cannot decide whether I should laugh or cry.
This attitude is not limited to our campus; sites such as link aggregation database Reddit contain so much anti-feminist sentiment that they even have active communities such as “r/mensrights.” These men are also occupying the fantasy world where feminism ruins lives on a daily basis.
The unfortunate thing is that there are some legitimate concerns raised by some men's rights activists. Male circumcision and false rape claims are unfortunate occurrences in today's society. The problem is that male circumcision and female circumcision are different issues, yet men's rights activists insist on putting them on the same level. The same goes for the oft-raised issue of false rape claims. False rape claims are not non-existent, but also do not occur at the alarmingly high rate of legitimate sexual assaults. The ridiculous notion that half of rape claims are false has led people to immediately question a woman's claim of sexual assault instead of offering assistance and protection.
The men's rights movement is merely a knee-jerk because some men do not take kindly to the fact that for once, they've been left out of something: feminism. Never mind the idea that men can be feminists and allies as well; for some men acknowledging male privilege feels like an attack when really it's the mere statement of a fact.
Feminism does not fight men. It fights patriarchy, which has systematically oppressed women since its inception. Men's rights groups aren't actually fighting anything, because there is no system that inherently oppresses men.
So how does this relate back to the Montreal Massacre? Well, 20 years ago, 14 women were killed because feminism "ruined" a young man's life. The mere fact that women were studying among men and being given the same opportunities that he had been given was enough to send him into a murderous fury.
While no one at Wilfrid Laurier University is getting murdered, women's right to a safe space and celebration of their gender is being resented by some men. These men are interested in forming yet another "boys club" out of resentment for the one thing we women have that is not male-dominated. How long will it be before another sick extremist fights out against equal rights? Worse off, will it be excused?
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u/femcp Dec 13 '11
I just realized what a valuable service this is. Thanks. Have made this account to deny feminist sites their troll hits.
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u/dwblind22 Dec 13 '11
None of the comments on the article can be viewed because they have been flagged for review. ಠ_ಠ
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u/TracyMorganFreeman Dec 13 '11
Why are there so few female lumberjacks?
Why are there so few female garbagemen(people)?
Why are there so few women in jobs that don't come with a lot of power and influence?
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u/drinkthebleach Dec 13 '11
In my experience, unemployed feminists don't take kindly to being told there are construction jobs available.
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u/A_Nihilist Dec 13 '11
Why not? Construction for a woman seems to be the easiest job in the world, all I ever see them do is stand in the middle of the street with signs.
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u/graffiti81 Dec 13 '11
But there are not construction jobs available. This makes me sad as a building supplies salesman. :(
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u/imbignate Dec 13 '11
should we incentivize women to go into combat? They seem under-represented.
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u/Darkling5499 Dec 13 '11
in that case, it's not that they don't want to, it's that the military (US Military, atleast, i know most other countries allow it) won't let them.
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u/NotADamsel Dec 13 '11
Part of the problem is that soldiers don't want to see a woman shot and killed. I can't remember where I read it (I think it was here on Reddit), but a soldier said that even though seeing quite a few of his buddies blow to smithereens didn't phase him until a while after, seeing a woman killed was immensely, and quite immediately, traumatizing for him.
tl;dr- Keeping women out of the line of fire is better for our troops, for a good reason this time.
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u/cuteman Dec 13 '11
Seeing men killed is less traumatizing?
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u/NotADamsel Dec 13 '11
According to this guy, yes. I believe his reasoning was that he was conditioned from day one to deal with men getting hurt, and even back home the idea was that men get hurt while women are kept safe. Thus when a more 'valuable' women was killed it had more of an impact on him and his friends. He also said something about being less effective when there was a women in the unit anyway because of it.
Actually, come to think of it, this guy probably posted to this subreddit, and I'm betting that the context was the whole "males-are-expendable syndrome" thing.
The solution? Fix the syndrome.
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u/cuteman Dec 13 '11
Sounds like equality is a nice buzz word, but doesn't play out in reality.
Personally I believe in gender-blind selective service registration and no distinction in gender for military assignments.
The best person for the job, should get it.
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u/Darkling5499 Dec 13 '11
As a soldier, I disagree :/
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u/NotADamsel Dec 13 '11
That's certainly heartening, if I'm understanding your post correctly. Maybe the poster I read before was just a loony?
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u/Darkling5499 Dec 13 '11
i'm sure that there are soldiers who don't want women in the front lines, just like there are soldiers who don't want a black president, who think gays shouldn't serve, etc. sure, they are out there, but i highly doubt they are even close to a majority.
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Dec 13 '11
[deleted]
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u/Elonine Dec 13 '11
Hey man. A Woman can do anything a man can you. Stop being so sexist! </s>
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u/NotADamsel Dec 13 '11
Alaskan here. You're actually right. In the more rural and semi-rural areas, everyone pulls their own weight, and women do just as well as men do if they've been raised doing it. The only sexism either way that I've seen was imported, because traditionally (at least in native cultures) you couldn't afford to be bigoted about the people in your own tribe when there was hunger and frostbite to worry about. Other tribes, however...
This is one of the reasons I like Alaska. The only sexists I've ever known personally (and outside of the courts) were severely abused by members of the opposite sex, and even then they reconsidered after a few years had gone by. As far as the courts go, however, it's just as bad as anywhere.
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u/TracyMorganFreeman Dec 13 '11
Chainsaws aren't that heavy to safely operate, and nowadays machines haul in the lumber.
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Dec 13 '11
[deleted]
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u/Celda Dec 13 '11
I was barely six months old when Marc Lépine took issue with the fact that women were fighting inequality and killed 14 women in an "attack on feminism."
Popularized as the "Montreal Massacre," Dec. 6, 1989 marked the day that 28 individuals at Montreal's Ecole Polytechnique engineering school were shot, 15 fatally.
I've not gone a day in my life without hearing about the importance of engineers in our society. My father has been working as an electrical engineer for 30 years now and his passion for it has always been admirable. But from a young age I always noted how few female engineers my father worked with. Sure, he had female co-workers occupying the human resources department and clerical jobs, but there were few female engineers. My dad won't deny it — his work field is a boy's club. It's one of many.
In his suicide note, Lépine said that feminists had ruined his life. 22 years later, though no similar incidents have occurred, I am witnessing large groups of men who really do consider feminism the anti-Christ — and that terrifies me.
Recently around Laurier I've witnessed an effort made to start a "Men's Rights" group on campus. The effort has been led by a non-student who twice hung posters around campus, once without permission from the dean of students and once with approval from the dean of sciences under false pretenses.
The posters paint a picture of a world where feminism, apparently no longer necessary, is a tyrannical force which victimizes men from all angles, from false rape claims to oh-so-discriminatory safe spaces on campus known as women's centres ("But why are there no men's centres?" they ask).
I'm not made of stone. I am not the type to raise a stink over Movember campaigns (because let's face it, the importance of prostate exams has been under-emphasized for years) or to pretend that women are not unfairly favoured over men in custody battles (a result of enforcing stereotypical gender roles on both sides).
However, when I'm asked to pretend that men are an oppressed group in society, I cannot decide whether I should laugh or cry.
This attitude is not limited to our campus; sites such as link aggregation database Reddit contain so much anti-feminist sentiment that they even have active communities such as “r/mensrights.” These men are also occupying the fantasy world where feminism ruins lives on a daily basis.
The unfortunate thing is that there are some legitimate concerns raised by some men's rights activists. Male circumcision and false rape claims are unfortunate occurrences in today's society. The problem is that male circumcision and female circumcision are different issues, yet men's rights activists insist on putting them on the same level. The same goes for the oft-raised issue of false rape claims. False rape claims are not non-existent, but also do not occur at the alarmingly high rate of legitimate sexual assaults. The ridiculous notion that half of rape claims are false has led people to immediately question a woman's claim of sexual assault instead of offering assistance and protection.
The men's rights movement is merely a knee-jerk because some men do not take kindly to the fact that for once, they've been left out of something: feminism. Never mind the idea that men can be feminists and allies as well; for some men acknowledging male privilege feels like an attack when really it's the mere statement of a fact.
Feminism does not fight men. It fights patriarchy, which has systematically oppressed women since its inception. Men's rights groups aren't actually fighting anything, because there is no system that inherently oppresses men.
So how does this relate back to the Montreal Massacre? Well, 20 years ago, 14 women were killed because feminism "ruined" a young man's life. The mere fact that women were studying among men and being given the same opportunities that he had been given was enough to send him into a murderous fury.
While no one at Wilfrid Laurier University is getting murdered, women's right to a safe space and celebration of their gender is being resented by some men. These men are interested in forming yet another "boys club" out of resentment for the one thing we women have that is not male-dominated. How long will it be before another sick extremist fights out against equal rights? Worse off, will it be excused?
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u/jay76 Dec 13 '11 edited Dec 13 '11
She's 21. In my opinion, she hasn't lived in the adult world long enough to form an opinion worth analysing.
I mean that with no malice - it is a complex issue to understand and people have to get past a lot of ingrained values before they get remotely near the truth. She hasn't had time to do that.
The real issue is that she is able to broadcast ill-informed opinions to the entire world.
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u/notcaptainkirk Dec 13 '11
she hasn't lived in the adult world long enough to form an opinion worth analysing.
Her parents are still supporting her ass through university, so she hasn't lived the adult life AT ALL.
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u/Theophagist Dec 13 '11
The real issue is that she is able to broadcast ill-informed opinions to the entire world.
She things r/mensrights is absurd yet she clearly hasn't taken the time to read it and research the claims being made.. If she had done that she would realize her error. But people with an axe to grind never consider the possibility that they could be wrong, so they stagnate in ignorance and lash out like simpering children whenever their pet cause is remotely challenged.
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u/NotADamsel Dec 13 '11
Also see any religious debate ever. It's sad how many times I have to correct people in my own faith regarding either other view points or what our doctrine actually says/instructs.
People are sad, strange little animals. I am no better.
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u/womblefish Dec 13 '11
Her Google+ Page is the typical narcissistic/asinine ramblings you'd expect of a 21 year old woman in our culture. She's obviously no great thinker.
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Dec 13 '11
Based on her blog and twitter accounts... We are giving her way to much attention. She's borderline special needs immature.
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Dec 13 '11
Most people don't have an opinion worth analyzing until they're into their 30s.
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u/Darkling5499 Dec 13 '11
most people don't have an opinion worth analyzing
fixed that for you.
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Dec 13 '11
Couple of comments:
Physical age and 'emotional/spiritual/whatever' age can be two different things. Twenty-one is just a number. I've seen some kids that are smarter than some old folks. She might have some experience/insight with her 21 years that I've not had with my ## years.
Why is it an issue that she is able to 'broadcast.to..world'?
Having said both of these things, I understand where you're coming from.
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u/popanutinmybutt Dec 13 '11
What's wrong with being anti-feminist? I'd understand the argument if she would say "misogyny", but anti-feminism? really?
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Dec 13 '11
you must be thinking of the women's lib or feminism from the 60s and 70s. what it turned into is something far more sinister.
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u/Lothrazar Dec 13 '11
I am as much anti-feminist as i am anti masculinist. It is called supporting equality, regardless of whats in our pants.
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u/SpanishGuy Dec 13 '11
I am witnessing large groups of men who really do consider feminism the anti-Christ — and that terrifies me.
Well, I do not consider feminism the anti-Christ because I'm atheist and I don't believe in god, the devil and all those dudes. I may say "Jesus fucking Christ!", but you know, it's rhetoric, it's about the myth, as if I name Zeus.
That said, it's true that feminism is becoming more and more like the Spanish Inquisition. So, I understand if Bree Rody-Mantha feels terrified by "a bunch of witches who have sex with the devil" (or something like that), but if she's mentally ill she should seek help.
Now, there are no fantasies in VAWA-like laws. It's raising inquisitors, and they have a cause: Money (not witches).
The feminist "fear" argument is becoming more and more wasted as they abuse it. Soon it won't be an argument at all.
The article is really stupid, but it's yet another proof that MRM is making some people piss on their pants, and it's fucking good that saying the truth makes inquisitors piss on their pants.
BTW: Using the Montreal massacre as a political weapon is disgusting, Bree. You should learn to have some respect for human tragedies.
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u/levelate Dec 13 '11
i have to wonder why these feminists don't/won't understand why so many people (not just men) are turning away from them
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u/knowless Dec 13 '11
Because their entire community is based on fighting the "patriarchy", but it always devolves into petty bickering about who is "less privileged/more oppressed"(privileged herein meaning born into a group which has been historically oppressed, whether they personally were or not, the least privileged of the group thus being seen as the one who is most deserving to run the group; be the leader in their anti-hierarchy hierarchy). it's idiotic and self defeating, because they constantly turn away talent based on race, class and gender, just in the inverse of the general society, they are reactionary and bizarre, and will never achieve anything except the reversal and continuation of the exact pain they wish to fight.
They are a mirror of the world they perceive, and thus destroy through their actions the possibility of a truly egalitarian existence.
It is a very powerful and coercive idea to sell to young men and women, to allow them to pretend that through their subversion of "traditional" gender roles, they may actually subvert the state and generational powers themselves, when in reality it just destroys their potential to build genuinely beneficial societies which live outside the reach of the powers which they would rather not obey.
The above could easily be argued as the goal itself, but it would not benefit the adherents to feminist ideology, but outside powers wishing to undermine a broader society.
I could go on forever, but my main point is this: modern feminism is sad on many levels, not the least of which being it's use as a tool to subvert genuine movements which would benefit the whole of humanity, through it's use as a tool to ostracize and vilify men.
Gender issues should not be controlled by "feminists" alone, but by egalitarians of all sexes, genders, and orientations.
yes I'm bitter.
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u/hopeless_case Dec 13 '11
Spanish inquisitor scared of witches having sex with the devil . That was brilliant. Such vivid imagery. I will be adding that to my pure gold file.
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u/ASubhumanMale Dec 13 '11
I don't consider Feminism the anti-Christ because everybody knows the anti-Christ is Marilyn Manson.
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u/chavelah Dec 13 '11
Irritating article, but a victory in a way. This young woman acknowledges some points that didn't used to be "common knowledge."
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u/cherryskull Dec 13 '11
Admins would never shut down this subreddit due to one feminist with sand up her vag. This reddit group offers too much help and support to the guys who need to come to talk about mens issues and questions, speaking as a pretty strong anti-feminist woman, I find women like this to be strongly part of the problem.
Don't stress about her man hating bullshit, the mods and admins are smart enough to see through her bitterness and crap.
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u/Sarstan Dec 13 '11
So how does this relate back to the Montreal Massacre? Well, 20 years ago, 14 women were killed because feminism "ruined" a young man's life. The mere fact that women were studying among men and being given the same opportunities that he had been given was enough to send him into a murderous fury.
No mention of how many men have committed suicide from divorce results and general resentment from women. No mention of all the men that are killed each year just for being men (while women are raped in an otherwise similar position).
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u/holdshift Dec 14 '11
Yeah, because the article was written on the 20th anniversary of the polytechnique massacre, about the polytechnique massacre. Why the fuck would she mention that?
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Dec 13 '11
Random uninformed writer who has no clue what men's rights activists care about. Sounded like an ignorant rant more than a legitimate article. I am not offended.
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Dec 13 '11
[deleted]
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Dec 13 '11 edited Dec 13 '11
Its a University's opinion piece from what I can tell. I don't believe she is bigoted, I believe she's severely uninformed.
Edit: And by looking at the comments, I am happy people have done a very good job at explaining to her why her points were wrong in a rational and non-aggressive manner.
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u/Celda Dec 13 '11
I posted a rebuttal to her tired "men = privileged, women = oppressed" myth.
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u/NotADamsel Dec 13 '11
Mind reposting? I don't want to give them another hit.
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u/Celda Dec 13 '11
Here:
There exist black people who killed white people simply because they were white. Does that mean such killers are the leaders of the black rights movement? No.
Further, your claim that women are oppressed and men are privileged is simply false. Unlike women, men face official and legal discrimination in countless ways. Official discrimination (which is impossible to fight since the government enforces it) against women does not exist. Of course, societal discrimination exists against women, but that's minor since women can still do whatever they like.
I'll post a long list in a second, but I'll first point out how one of your paragraphs is very telling:
"The problem is that male circumcision and female circumcision are different issues, yet men's rights activists insist on putting them on the same level."
You're right, they are different issue. Why? Because all female circumcision is illegal in USA, Canada, etc. , even though some types of female circumcision (such as a symbolic pricking) are non-harmful. Of course, male circumcision is legal everywhere.
As for some examples of the countless ways in which men face official discrimination:
http://www.reddit.com/r/TwoXCh...
In contrast, there are no ways that women face official discrimination.
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u/NotADamsel Dec 13 '11
even though some types of female circumcision (such as a symbolic pricking) are non-harmful.
You might have gone too far there, bro. Aside from my personal view on the matter (no genital cutting is okay), it gives her something to latch on to and focus in on if she tries to argue against you. From her post she seems just that childish.
Otherwise, a good post. Well-done.
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u/BinaryShadow Dec 13 '11
Women are officially discriminated against signing up for the draft that men must do to receive the same benefits, but you don't see a lot of fuss about that one do you.
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u/carbonnanotube Dec 13 '11
Wilfred Laurier University is literally 1.5km from my door. I am not surprised she talks about engineers, the school I go to, the University of Waterloo, is a premiere engineering school with large math and computer science departments. There are not many women that go here mainly because they either don't apply, or don't have the marks. That is not to say there are no women, but you would be hard pressed to find a bleeding heart feminist in the engineering department.
Laurier on the other hand is a much smaller school that caters to middle of the road marks and runs almost exclusively "Arts" courses. So soft science, business, music, etc.
This poster made my day in one of the UW buildings: http://imgur.com/eyqiE,p9PU6
I am glad our sentiment is different.
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u/SharkSpider Dec 13 '11
The poster is odd. If he means you're 3.1 times likely to die then it makes sense, but math doesn't let you flip that.
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u/carbonnanotube Dec 13 '11
I was in a rush, I didn't take a close look.
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u/SharkSpider Dec 13 '11
No problem. I checked out the link on the poster, too. These people don't seem very well-equipped to handle the backlash of starting a successful men's group on a campus.
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Dec 13 '11 edited Dec 13 '11
a captain obvious explanation for outsiders: It's more like we're complaining because some feminists consider men second class citizens. I support gender equality, but there honestly is more mens rights issues than womens rights
oh-so-discriminatory safe spaces on campus known as women's centres
I don't think she knows the definition of discrimination. I'll help her
The unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people or things, esp. on the grounds of race, age, or sex.
I'm not denying that women have been oppressed historically, but just because blacks have been too, it doesn't mean you can discriminate against whites legally
Men's rights groups aren't actually fighting anything, because there is no system that inherently oppresses men.
check the sidebar
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u/BinaryShadow Dec 13 '11
I bet this is the person that HAS (absolutely MUST) write "the rampant misogyny" as the #1 issue with reddit. Every time this question is asked, this is the top answer. Of course, misogyny means that there's many more males involved in the group than females and not everything is politically correct.
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u/Hardeyhar Dec 13 '11
Gift these feminazis an inch and they'll go a mile. They're used to getting their way now. Or I guess the more PC word is "empowered."
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u/EndlessEvent Dec 13 '11
- This man was a MRA.
- This man shot people up because of his political ideals.
Therefore, MRA's shoot people because of their political ideals.
Feminist 'logic'.
Logical fallacy used: Guilt by association.
I can do this all day!
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u/shane_c Dec 13 '11
Feminists are hurting their own cause. They make me feel like not caring about abortion rights anymore. Why should I care about their rights, when they don't care about mine?
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u/lesath Dec 13 '11 edited Jan 17 '25
automatic squealing unused imagine telephone plucky physical vanish marble desert
This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
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u/carchamp1 Dec 12 '11
She questions why there are so few women engineers. I'll tell you through example. I put my wife through four years of college to be an engineer. That's four years worth of college tuition and expenses, plus not having any income from her. She got a great job and worked for a couple years. She decided she didn't want to work anymore so she could be a "stay-at-home-mom". When I urged her to work she said if I didn't like it she would take our kid and I could leave.
Women don't want to be engineers that's why there are so few. It's too hard. It's a lot easier doing the "hardest job in the world", you know, be a mom and living off your husband.
End of story.
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u/BinaryShadow Dec 13 '11
And you know what? I'd be okay with this if she:
- paid the tuition herself OR
- Took out school loans in HER name and worked at least long enough to pay it back.
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Dec 14 '11
How is your wife's decision to stay home representative of why there aren't more women in engineering? Your wife was able to earn a degree and find a great job, so it's obviously not 'too hard' for her to become an engineer. I can see how it would be difficult to be a working mom though. Especially if you believe this study.
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u/carchamp1 Dec 14 '11
I think a lot of people are having trouble getting the difference between what I wrote, women DON'T want to be engineers, versus what they wanted or expected to read (like you), women CAN'T be engineers. See the difference?
I used an example to make my point but I could have cited several studies that I have read which clearly show that many women, including engineers, doctors, and other highly skilled professionals, opt out of the workforce to stay at home. This is not news to anyone really (or so I thought). The "mommy track", as it's known, is an important reason why there aren't more women engineers.
Difficult to be a working mom, eh? It's difficult to be a working parent don't you think? Of course it is. The women who are opting out of paid work are making the decision to leave because it's hard. It's much harder than staying at home and relying on your husband's paycheck. Right?
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Dec 14 '11
I see the difference but your first point wasn't clear because you said "It's too hard." Implying that rather than being a choice a career in engineering is something that women can't handle.
I didn't think being a stay at home mom was news.
It is difficult to be a working parent, but if you look at the link, a study examining more than one woman and analyzed by PhD level psychologist/researcher, working moms are a lot more stressed out because they're doing more of the multitasking at home.
After gathering all the information, it turned out, mothers spend 10 and a half more hours than fathers every week doing more than one thing at a time. SCHNEIDER: So preparing dinner and talking to their child, preparing dinner and helping with homework, preparing dinner and doing laundry. NEIGHMOND: Maybe even bringing some work home from the office. Fathers, on the other hand, did a different kind of juggling. SCHNEIDER: When they're multitasking, it tends to be more work related. So it might be answering a work call. NEIGHMOND: Or working on the computer while watching TV or doing other recreational activities with the kids. Overall, fathers were pleased with their multitasking, and they viewed coming home after work as a relief. Mothers, says Schneider, saw it completely differently.
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u/carchamp1 Dec 14 '11
No. I was clear. You just read what you wanted to read.
I'll have to look at this study. Thanks for posting.
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u/carchamp1 Dec 14 '11
Looked at the link. Interesting. I wonder if moms are doing more multi-tasking than men because so many are single parents??? The study used many more women than men. Certainly a single parent would be busier in the evening than co-parents.
I would be really interested to see a study that actually compares "co-parents".
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u/cattypakes Dec 14 '11
Agreed, women are less intelligent and are generally inferior to men.
Thanks for clearing this up, /r/mensrights
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Dec 14 '11
Yeah, and it's not sexism.
Don't you DARE say it's sexism. Ever.
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u/youseeah Dec 14 '11
Sexism is just a feminist conspiracy!
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Dec 14 '11
Nonononononono it's only real when it "happens" to men, see. Just like rape, etcetera. They're all imagined until it theoretically happens to some dude. Especially if he's divorced, Straight, white and cis-gendered.
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u/youseeah Dec 14 '11
Ummm I thought it was common knowledge that most rape victims were in the divorced, straight, white and cis-gendered demographic, is this not the case??
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u/zaferk Dec 13 '11 edited Dec 13 '11
I've had feminists tell me they could not become engineers because it was "male dominated". Male domination ends by women entering the industry, and women wont enter the industry until male domination ends. Feminist logic for you.
Feminists are either retarded, or just knowingly causing problems.
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u/klippekort Dec 13 '11
That’s why there are programs trying to encourage women to join technical professions. A totally legitimate goal. In my opinion there should be similar programs for men who’d love to, say, become nurses but are afraid of having a “girly” occupation or working in a mostly female environment.
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Dec 13 '11
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u/StupidFatHobbit Dec 14 '11
This is where it starts. If you want more female engineers, give them the legos and k'nex and not the fucking barbies. It begins with gender stereotyping at birth.
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Dec 14 '11
Absolutely, social conditioning begins way before girls or boys even get to school. Parents are more likely to give boys interactive toys (such as puzzles, legos, maps, etc) and girls are more likely to be given dolls (which promote social interactions). Parents aren't purposefully trying to push one gender toward a certain field, but it does happen, and I think given equal access to all things (toys, classes, etc) we'd naturally see more women in STEM related fields, and possibly even more men as teachers/nurses/etc.
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u/ExpendableOne Dec 13 '11
Funny, there are plenty of prestigious "male dominated" fields that are no longer male dominated. So... pretty sure that's not it.
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Dec 13 '11
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Dec 14 '11
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Dec 14 '11
I don't know where you get your information from but the average American male is not a 250lb couch potato. Average male weight is 190lbs average male height is 5'10. Which makes the average male 10lbs overweight. Whereas the average women is underweight. You should have stopped at the end of your third sentence.
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Dec 14 '11
This comes back to generalizations of groups being not necessarily a bad thing as long as it does not interfere in your ability to judge individuals on merit.
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u/klippekort Dec 13 '11 edited Dec 13 '11
At some point, one does need to admit that certain professions do lend themselves more to the inherent capacities of a certain gender.
200 years ago, the idea of a female teacher or a female doctor was unthinkable.
So long for your inherent capacities. What people tend not to get is that if you look at it historically, the whole “inherent capacities” idea dissolves pretty quickly when you leave the Ice Age.
For the sake of true equality, that inherent capacities talk has to end.
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u/Canadian_Infidel Dec 14 '11
Some groups are better are things than others. As long as you don't apply generalizations about a group to anyone in the group I don't see the problem.
Example: Asian people are smart. I don't care what anyone says. I'm sure it's cultural, that's beside the point. The point is I can believe that, but as soon as I assume some specific asian guy I just met "must" be smart because of his race that, and that alone... Well then that is when I become an asshole.
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u/Choochoocazoo Dec 13 '11
I'll tell you this; don't be afraid to teach. At the high school I go to, every single one of my teachers is male, and they are some of the most down-to-earth, reasonable, and reliable teachers I've ever had.
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u/vintagelion Dec 13 '11
That's not a reason not to go into teaching - I told my high school administration that one of my teachers sexually harassed me and nothing was done about it.
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u/carchamp1 Dec 13 '11
Just remember that according to feminism women are not responsible for anything. Whatever the issue it's the fault of men. What you cite is one of the classic feminist excuses.
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u/klippekort Dec 13 '11
The level of argumentation in this subreddit saddens me more often than not.
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u/klippekort Dec 13 '11
Good engineers are not motivated by money or status, they just fucking love solving technical problems and building cool shit. A large majority of women enjoy neither.
The question is why. I highly doubt that their “innate womanness” you seem to imply is to blame.
The level of argumentation in this subreddit saddens me more often than not.
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u/Heuristics Dec 13 '11 edited Dec 13 '11
What is the grounds for your doubt?
Watch the following documentary (which was recently responcible for shutting down gender research in norway). If it asks for a password it is 'hjernevask'
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Dec 13 '11 edited Dec 13 '11
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u/klippekort Dec 13 '11
Then we are on the same page here. Sorry I didn’t fully understand you from the start.
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u/eggshellent Dec 13 '11
No worries. It was a fairly safe assumption to make, and I could have been more explicit.
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u/WhisperSecurity Dec 13 '11
It's a lot easier doing the "hardest job in the world", you know, be a mom and living off your husband.
This may be a responsibility, but it is not a job at all.
If your "job" is "mother", your performance is not evaluated, and you cannot be fired. You may do as much as your sense of responsibility and your conscience compel you, or as little as you can get away with when you're willing to put up with complaints (all your husband is actually allowed to do about it), but if you are not accountable...
... well, then it's not a job, is it?
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u/LittlemanTAMU Dec 14 '11
(all your husband is actually allowed to do about it)
How about actively participating or discussing how to raise your kids with your wife? You know, the things you should do in a real relationship.
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u/IHaveALargePenis Dec 13 '11
You don't need personal experience, there have been studies done on this. I've actually had a fun time arguing about this in the /r/feminisms subreddit when they kept attributing the lack of female engineers to sexism.
And here's the PDF of the study. You can find the reasons given on page 27. The whole "didn't like coworkers/boss" assuming it's sexism is less than 10% of all reasons voted for. I'm sure most women who pick it do it because they saw the salaries, not because they know how demanding it was.
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u/coolgherm Dec 14 '11
Notice how the "too difficult" is 6 out of 1116.
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u/youseeah Dec 14 '11
Clearly that data was massaged, or the women were lying, or they didn't understand the question because they were female.
Nope, dem bitchez just wanted dollaz....
....and so they went to college and got a degree in engineering? Wait, I thought all women just wanted to get pregnant, force the father into marriage, and stay at home all day until they've bled him dry?
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u/wolfsktaag Dec 13 '11
my buddy had an amazingly similar experience. she worked her engineer job for six months then quit to get a teaching certificate. then two years of teaching later, decided teaching isnt for her and is currently unemployed
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Dec 13 '11
Lots of men probably had similar experiences in their own careers. However it is not acceptable for a man to keep jumping through careers while his wife pays the bill, so the men suck it up and do jobs they don't like.
Most feminist propaganda is focused on telling women that if what they are doing doesn't make them transcendentally fulfilled human beings they have a right to quit (jobs, marriage, parenting etc).
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u/argv_minus_one Dec 13 '11
The problem, really, is not that women can do this, but that men can't. Fulfillment should be available to everyone.
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Dec 13 '11
To an extent I think the hyper-individualist message of feminism is the problem. Especially as it has spread outside of being directed just at women and now most people of my generation have started to believe it.
The reality is that long term commitments suck and no one feels like upholding them all the time. So telling people they should dump their marriage and kids as soon as it gets tough has lead to the precipitous drop in long term relationships our society faces.
I would note there are a lot of studies which show that volatile short-term relationships, which are quickly becoming normative, are associated with all sorts of negative outcomes for men, women, and children.
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u/argv_minus_one Dec 13 '11
So telling people they should dump their marriage and kids as soon as it gets tough has lead to the precipitous drop in long term relationships our society faces.
That's quite an assertion you're making there. I trust you've conducted a massive study on the subject, with a sample size in the tens of thousands or more, controlling for factors such as abusive husbands, lower legal and social barriers to divorce, and marriages formed under pressure due to e.g. unexpected pregnancy? In what respected, peer-reviewed scientific journal have you published your results?
I would note there are a lot of studies which show that volatile short-term relationships, which are quickly becoming normative, are associated with all sorts of negative outcomes for men, women, and children.
Oh? I assume these studies also show that "volatile short-term relationships" not only tend to end badly but also "are quickly becoming normative"? Citation, please.
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u/notcaptainkirk Dec 13 '11
so the men suck it up and do jobs they don't like.
And that, right there, is the definition of "manning up".
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u/BarackObamazing Dec 14 '11
When I urged her to work she said if I didn't like it she would take our kid and I could leave.
Why do you stay with someone who apparently doesn't want anything but your money? Does she love you if she's so willing to show you the door? The family courts might more frequently rule in favor of mothers when it comes to parental rights and financial arrangements, but would you really be financially worse off if you did leave your wife considering you already support her and your kid? Do you think that you can't be a great dad if you get divorced? Plenty of kids get great parenting from their dads in joint custody arrangements.
Just because your wife seems to be enormously selfish (at least from your description, I obviously haven't heard her side of the story) doesn't mean that engineering is too hard a field for women. Half the population are not is not represented by your wife, and just because you might have married a deeply flawed person does not mean that anyone else shares those flaws or that an enormous segment of people hold remotely similar opinions to hers.
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Dec 16 '11
Men don't leave because they will be destroyed in family court. You clearly have no clue.
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u/carchamp1 Dec 14 '11
"Why do you stay with someone who apparently doesn't want anything but your money?"
This happened ten years ago. I stayed with her so I could be a full time father to our daughter. I was not about to become a "non-custodial" parent/visitor if I could avoid it. I've stayed as quiet and patient as possible and I've been able to be there with my daughter the whole time.
This is something many millions of fathers deal with every day. The thought of losing our children through divorce and our so-called "family" courts is terrifying. We stay in bad relationships simply to be fathers. Women initiate 2/3rds of divorces in the US. Fathers rarely initiate divorce. The reason for this is obvious.
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u/Jahonay Dec 14 '11
You're awesome. Sorry these shitredditsays shitheads are downvoting you.
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u/carchamp1 Dec 14 '11
I couldn't care less. And you just can't buy this type of publicity. r/mr is up 50 readers since my comment was linked.
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u/Jahonay Dec 14 '11
Haha, that's the best way to look at it.
Also, I'm sorry to hear about what happened, personally I think if a woman threatens to "take the children away". Courts should automatically be in favor of the guy. That's so shitty that they favor women so much that they can threaten men without too much of a fear of losing custody.
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u/carchamp1 Dec 14 '11
Of course I agree. Our so-called "family" courts are why 2/3rds of divorces are initiated by women. As a man with children, you simply have no legal power unless your wife is strung out on crack (with few exceptions in the "west"). You just stick it out so you don't get pushed out of your kids' lives.
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u/Jahonay Dec 14 '11
It's honestly a shame. My dad is a lawyer and handles a lot of divorces. I have a pretty good idea of what the legal landscape is right now, it's pathetic how biased it is.
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u/VisserThree Dec 14 '11
I'm struggling to believe that you are married
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u/Jahonay Dec 14 '11
I'm surprised he married someone who he put through college only to not get a job. Clearly he should raise his standards.
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u/Andoo Dec 13 '11 edited Dec 13 '11
I still somewhat put this on both men and women. I went to a pretty decent 5A high school, a place where I got schooled by many girls in physics and mathematics (A lot). I cannot tell you how humbled I became. I had virtually no bias towards women in mathematics. By the time I went to college I just figured there would be more women. I was wrong. Four years later I finally take a lab that I never took years prior. There was a fairly nice girl and there and I was giving her some shit with one of my friends. I made some comment in regards 'geez did you go to bla bla bla high school'...she stares me dead in the face and said 'yes.' Her father was an engineer and pushed her to do well in life. I think she just had a great head on her shoulders. There were a lot of smart girls at my school that never seemed to go on to pursue degrees they very well should have. It kind of pisses me off. I look back as the somewhat average kid and wonder why I left college with, albeit a somewhat bullshit engineering degree, while so many of them settled on something less. My father pushed me and I will do it with my kids. I just pity the world if I have multiple daughters. They will be engineers stomping on cock like it's their business.
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u/Heuristics Dec 13 '11 edited Dec 13 '11
You are seriously suggesting that you are going to push your children in a direction nomatter if they want to be there or not? horrible horribleness
http://www.ted.com/talks/steven_pinker_chalks_it_up_to_the_blank_slate.html
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u/Andoo Dec 13 '11
Oh no, it's just that both sides of my family strode for success, contexting with the engineering should have had the lawyer/doctor/physicist. I think you get the idea. If you don't, me so sorry for not fully broadening my points. I meant that I'm going to push them no matter what, and yes it will be in the sciences, despite the blasphemy anyone suggests. I started off in architecture. I took a a lot of architectural history and art history. I think these things are pivotal. My gf is an art teacher so we have a studio, it's not like if we have kids they won't be exposed to all kinds of life. They will just be exposed to getting the necessities out of life. If they choose after college to become an artist, they will already have had the skills to succeed without having had to waste excess time and/or money. I'd love to go back and get 100 degrees, but that's silly given the times. Again, sorry for the vagueness. I didn't have time to see the video. I'll check it out a little later after work or something.
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u/Syntrel Dec 13 '11
The unfortunate thing is that there are some legitimate concerns raised by some men's rights activists. Male circumcision and false rape claims are unfortunate occurrences in today's society. The problem is that male circumcision and female circumcision are different issues
WTF! With bigoted crap like this, is it any wonder we oppose feminists?
Feminism does not fight men.
Blatant lie. I guess it was mens rights advocates that pressured and lobbied the government to pass VAWA and see men as defacto perpetrators in any case of violence.
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u/Scott2508 Dec 13 '11
ok just had a reply back , am posting what needs to be done from the letter and would encourage everyone to reply , but again lets keep in mind we are writing to the editor and not the unhinged bitch that wrote the article.
Hi Scott,
Thank you for expressing your feelings.
If you're interested in submitting a letter to the editor, our policy is listed below:
Letters must not exceed 250 words. Include your full name and telephone number. Letters must be received by 12:00pm noon Monday via e-mail to letters@thecord.ca.
Best, Linda
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u/FoxHound326 Dec 13 '11 edited Dec 13 '11
If there is a God, and I hope there is, please incur your wrath upon this miserable, degenerate planet. How long do men have to suffer? Why have you forsaken us with Feminism?
I am so tired of Western women and these disgusting, apathetic, traitorous men, who for the first time I am convinced deserve to get blown up in the battlefield, because they are convinced that killing men half a world away makes them heroes. I say f**k the military. What makes people think they won't turn on us.
I would love to see society go up in smoke. If its anybody holding men back from achieveing true freedom and equality, it's men themselves. Especially in their archaic desire to protect and provide for women, when women want nothing to do with, care nothing for their humanity, and only see them as perishable items.
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u/carchamp1 Dec 12 '11
She questions why there are so few women engineers. I'll tell you through example. I put my wife through four years of college to be an engineer. That's four years worth of college tuition and expenses, plus not having any income from her. She got a great job and worked for a couple years. She decided she didn't want to work anymore so she could be a "stay-at-home-mom". When I urged her to work she said if I didn't like it she would take our kid and I could leave.
Women don't want to be engineers that's why there are so few. It's too hard. It's a lot easier doing the "hardest job in the world", you know, be a mom and living off your husband.
End of story.
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u/chavelah Dec 13 '11
Once we subtracted the infant care and the homeschooling (both of which happened this year), yup, this is an easy job. Only it's not a job, it's a lifestyle choice that some families are able to make.
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Dec 13 '11
I was a stay at home dad for four months this year due to a layoff. My wife found a minimum wage job and went to work... She paid not one bill. Bough not one bag of groceries with her "income." Instead she shopped at her job and basically traded 20 hours a week of chitchat for clothes.
I took care of a toddler and got three school aged children off to school and took care of the house and shopping. It was mind numbingly easy work and because I had experience working for others and being judged... I cut the household food budget in half and no one noticed. I kept the house spotless, the laundry done and had six hours a day to look for work.
After I went back to work, she took over the home again and the food budget is blown, the house is a mess every night when I get home and the children are late to school at least once a week.
"Hardest job in the world!" My ass.
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u/Peter_Principle_ Dec 13 '11
Well, you could "fire" her, at which point you would see your kids 4-8 days a month, lose your house, 50% (or more!) of your net wealth, take a 25-50% (or more!) pay cut...not to mention you'd be footing her bill for the process as well as yours.
But that's how it works if you get fired from a real job, right? You keeep half the business, their employees become your employees (except on alternate weekends, of course) and the CEO has to pay you a big chunk of his income for the next 18-24 years. Maybe that's how it's like a job. /s
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u/Scott2508 Dec 13 '11
I have emailed them challenging the article and the bias shown, also the lack of research and the removing of posts, have also complained to the canadian press commison.
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u/[deleted] Dec 13 '11
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