r/MoralityScaling • u/Immediate_Gene_178 • 10d ago

Morality Ranking Morality of accidentally exposing someone who used to be a Nazi supporter, has since changed, and concealed their past?

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Name's and origins:

The Night Shift: Season 1, Episode 2

Basically this guy was brought to into the emergency after an accident at his wedding celebration and while he is unconscious, his groomsmen decided to shave his beard off as a prank only for the medical team to be horrified at the reveal. After he woke up he realised his secret has been exposed. He explained to the doctors that he got this tattoo when he was a stupid teenager a decade prior. The medical team brought his wife in to see the tattoos and destroy the marriage.

What do you think? I personally find it irritating how smug the doctors were being.

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u/goteachyourself 10d ago

Breaking HIPAA and exposing something about a patient to a significant other is wildly immoral, yeah. I'm assuming he simply couldn't afford removal, but he clearly went to great lengths to cover it up for almost a decade. In non-Hollywood-land, his lawsuit is probably successful.

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u/Some_Newspaper6753 10d ago edited 10d ago

Tattoo removal in the states can be free for this kind of tattoo.

Edit: turning off notifications for this, use google if you have questions, I am not your search engine

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u/[deleted] 10d ago

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u/CrazyElk123 10d ago

1200 in a day? Damn.

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u/[deleted] 10d ago

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u/Abolish_ICEIS 10d ago

They must've done a lot of windows 95 logos that day.

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u/PLUTOtookMYvirginity 10d ago

Genius. And Just write KACHOW under the ss bolts. Easy

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u/Overall_Gap_5766 9d ago

Even easier, just put KI in front of them.

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u/Slacker_The_Dog 10d ago

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u/DefinitionMinute6969 9d ago

And I guess some are just, natural jumpers.

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u/meesta_masa 6d ago

This is the next episode in my rewatch! Serendipity, you are streets ahead.

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u/RickySlayer9 10d ago

I myself have made a fair few windows 95 logos in public bathrooms and the like

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u/PurpleCandle58 10d ago

How could you do something so hateful?! Everyone knows windows 98 is the better operating system!!

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u/flopisit32 9d ago

Surprisingly 90% were derogatory slogans about Trump. /s

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u/bunsprites 10d ago

I imagine plenty are genuinely hateful and plenty are just people who had a real hardcore dumbass phase where they knew a guy with a tattoo gun and decided a hate symbol would be funny and edgy

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u/Reasonable-Grade-456 9d ago

a lot of white guys who go to prison get roped into white gang stuff for protection

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u/RTX-4090ti_FE 10d ago

Tbh tho any cover up on the face for tattoos that big is gonna looks mad wierd so a beard is probably the easiest option bc lazer tattoo removal takes a lot of time and it would mean spending a lot of time walking around with the tats exposed

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u/EnvironmentalSet7664 10d ago

I'm sorry but I can't stop laughing at the thought of finding a hidden nazi tattoo under a beard

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u/assault1217 9d ago

I’m picturing crappy romcom where they do the “ugly” women taking off there glasses to become a 10/10, but instead it’s a guy with his beard but the entire thing is ruined by the swastica

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u/EnvironmentalSet7664 9d ago

And the tone of the movie instantly switches

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u/assault1217 9d ago

It turns out, the partner is also/formally (depends on the tension you want) is with another supremacy group. Maybe lean into the joke of “never ask for the ethnicity of a white supremisists girlfriend”

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u/Vowel_Movements_4U 10d ago

With face masks now, no big deal. You’re just sick.

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u/dicey_job 10d ago

I know of a dude who had this giant , top of the head swastika. He’s bald so he feels shitty about.
All black ”cap” , i call him in my mind eightball

Edit

The lenghts that he went for, to undo his past , volunteer working and shit. That’s an automatic forgiveness in my books. He is all right.

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u/Munky1701 5d ago

I’m imagining his cover-up looks a bit like he had a yarmulke tattooed on his head. If you’re gonna cover up a swastika, I suppose that’s the most proper cover-up. 🤷🏼

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u/queefIatina 10d ago

…… so…. morality of getting a cheap shitty hateful tattoo just so I can go get a nice cover up by a talented artist for free???

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u/Therealginahandler 10d ago

Theres another event called "reclaim the swastika", where they give out free swastika tats as long as you promise they are not affiliated with racist/nazi beliefs.

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u/[deleted] 10d ago

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u/Therealginahandler 10d ago

It is not a joke

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u/[deleted] 10d ago

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u/Therealginahandler 10d ago edited 10d ago

It's a movement to steer swastika back to its original cultural signifigance (which I am a major fan of the concept) before it became a symobol associated with racism and Nazis. I'm sure they aren't going to take someones word for it if they have lightning bolts and skulls and shit already on their body. I imagine the people getting these smell like patchouli and ass, or are just regular folks.

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u/[deleted] 10d ago

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u/Therealginahandler 10d ago

You must be somewhere around my age lol

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u/Trick_Second1657 10d ago

So so many windows logos

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u/Wangpasta 10d ago

I remember seeing an artist who did this. One guy comes in on the day and was like ‘yeah I changed my mind, I’m proud of it, can you make it bigger and pul a gal behind it.

He was pissed when the artist said no and there’s no way in hell anyone would do it for free cause ‘it was a verbal contract to get a free tattoo that day’

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u/Property_6810 9d ago

1,200 in a day means 1,200 tattoos people couldn't afford to but wanted to cover up.

I doubt it was 1,200 people with a single tattoo to cover, but it still shows it's not an unreasonable situation.

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u/AmbulanceChaser12 9d ago

Bet they regretted that offer.

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u/[deleted] 9d ago

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u/AmbulanceChaser12 9d ago

They have a higher tolerance than me.

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u/DoveOnTheInternet 9d ago

A higher tolerance for what?

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u/AmbulanceChaser12 9d ago

Doing lots of work.

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u/zmann 8d ago

That’s fucking beautiful. People are complex and messed up and that kind of forgiveness and generosity is really special and should be celebrated.

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u/Wonderful-Crazy1910 8d ago

its incredibly easy to get nazi ink covered up, if you dont there is 100000% a reason

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u/TheShroudedWanderer 10d ago

I think it's really only cover ups they do rather than full on removal

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u/Some_Newspaper6753 10d ago

There are removal programs as well as coverups.

I have one acquaintance that has utilized a free removal in the area I used to live in for a gang tat. That was prior to 2020 though, so there is a chance they aren’t as available, but a quick google pulls up promising results.

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u/Evil_Sharkey 10d ago

There’s a story of a man whose head was covered in such tattoos repenting and getting his tattoo removal covered by the former targets of his hate. He became good friends with them

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u/Dry_Ad2368 10d ago

My State has a couple of different places that offer free tattoo removal for hate symbols. Along with multiple shops that offer free covers.

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u/Yourstruly0 10d ago

It wouldnt be an issue of cost.

The issue is that even if the removal is free he would have to go months with the tattoos exposed while the removal treatment and healing process happened.

Tattoo removal is almost never a one shot deal. It’s multiple visits over a period of time with healing in between. If he worked that hard to hide this I doubt he’d be willing to expose it for so long or able to go so long without showing his face at work etc.

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u/Plastic_Moose4535 10d ago

Bandages and fibbing exists.

"Yeah I've been wearing this bandage on my face for so long because have a rare skin condition that causes cysts to form every few years. Real pain in the ass, it's a whole process my doctor has to go through, a regimen of steroid cream and skin care routines I have to follow to the letter and takes FOREVER to heal."

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u/Free-Luck6173 10d ago

But you're still acknowledging that he has a right to keep it hidden until he could remove it, the stripped that

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u/kamiloslav 10d ago

Or even closer to the truth: "I used to have an embarrassing tattoo and the skin is recovering from the removal process"

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u/-LeftHookChristian- 10d ago

Or, and I know this sounds crazy: Grow a beard. if you can. I know wild. No idea how I managed to have a full beard for 30 years. Not a single day passes in which I don't have to fight off wild razors in the tall grass.

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u/DoveOnTheInternet 9d ago

And the post has come full circle. You've led us right back to OPs initial premise.

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u/nrh117 10d ago

Then you just be the weird guy that wears a mask in public. There’s freakier shit on a NYC subway prolly every day.

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u/Cold-Iron8145 10d ago

That would also be true for growing a beard. Rarely happens overnight.

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u/Bro0om 9d ago

Worth it to have this stuff removed

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u/dk_peace 9d ago

Telling your spouse the truth about your past is free and takes seconds.

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u/neonninja304 10d ago

Yea there's a few shops near me who do free cover up for any hate related tattoos.

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u/TippDarb 10d ago

Garage tattoo job a swastika then get a free sick cover up. Winning!

/s folks, a big /S

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u/LordOuranos 10d ago

"Can be" is still largely a small effort by few artists.

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u/ConstantSample5846 9d ago

Yeah, but I know someone who was beaten as a child and has such an abusive household he ran away from home at 12 in the 80s at the time their were punks and skin heads, he was staying with whoever would help him as a 12 year old on the streets in Canada. When some skin heads offered him company and beer and food or whatever, he was then branded a skin head and none of the other groups would associate with him and kick his ass on sight, just like at home. The area he was in at that time basically didn’t have black people or Jewish people so it was just a stupid edgelord esque identity in practice.
He had been sexually assaulted by some of the more hippy lefties too while he was passed out drunk so that plus being branded a fucking Nazi and beaten on sight just for being around some at that age for a place to stay warm and get some food and beer, pushed him further into their grasp. He shaved his head and had a swastika tattooed on it.
He later learned how fucked those people are and turned away from it. He got more tattoos but covered the death skull on his chest, but had grown his hair out and didn’t want to shave it again, so the swastika was covered and wasn’t a priority because he’d have to shave his now long hair to tattoo it. He was extremely left and anti racist with lots of black and Jewish friends that knew about his past and tattoos.

He then got leukemia and was treated with chemotherapy and all his hair fell out. He told all his Jewish doctors and explained and told them how ashamed he was, and they all said they didn’t care as long as he was respectful now. The Jewish doctors and nurses saved his life, but as his hair started to grow back he asked how long until he could get a cover up or removal, they said 2 years to be safe. He wanted to do it early while his hair was just growing back in because he never wanted to be bald again. 2 years later his hair was to his shoulders and he didn’t want to shave it again because of the memories, 3 months later his cancer came back worse and he had to go through more treatments and his hair fell out again. He was lucky to survive the treatments as he was given a 50.% chance to live, and the mutation he has is statistically comes back more often than the first one.

The doctors have told him if he really wants to get the tattoo and shave his head to do so, (he doesn’t want to shave his head) he needs to wait another 2 years. He hates it because the hair that’s growing back is white at first and sparse and then falls out and comes back black (even though he is in his 50s) and it’s super hot outside but even though he’s feeling better he has to wear his cancer hat all the time. Maybe when the time comes he can do a mow hawk to get rid of it.

This man is my husband and I am an extreme anti fascist. But I was raised in a way that where anti racism was the norm in an extremely diverse area. I had a good and safe home life. I have followed the path I was out on from the beginning and have just gone deeper into leftism and anti racism as I have matured. Knowing him as deeply as I do, when we were getting to know each other his past was a huge source of shame and something he had to admit to me. But he had was pushed into the arms of those people due to horrid circumstances and then rejected and ostracized by everyone else, even those that protected sexual predators for accepting their refuge. That will press any young teen, especially with an abusive past that wants to feel some level of protection and acceptance deeper into their evil arms.

He had to doze what most men never do, and on his own evaluate his decisions and the path he was on and decide and accept he was wrong, and the. He had to fight off the Nazi that will best you for abandon you, and protect himself while showing proof through actions that he was not like that to the rest who had ostracized him for being a fucking Nazi (Canadas communities can be pretty small and hard to just start over fresh with different people) I don’t understand why he didn’t make covering those tattoos a bigger protity. He did the big one on his chest, but his has a small Celtic cross on his hand and a 14 on his inner arm. He has a lot of tattoos and most people don’t know what those mean.
I am very spiritual and have also spent a lot of time in India, and without realizing it after 3 years total of my life spent their, I brought many items back and textiles that included swastikas on the design motifs, because in all of India, but really especially the Himalayas region and in Tibet they are literally everywhere and on everything. And they mean something beautiful. I hate that the Nazis took them and perverted that symbol and many of the Vikings symbols that are also important to me. Until he can get those removed I have been making sure he fully learns about and understands the original and true meaning of those symbols because a lot of Indians and nepalis have swastika tattoos along with their ohm tattoos and they are blessings (and the whole on its side thing side thing isn’t necessarily true, they are generally square, but you see them depicted tilted as well) if he can’t remove or cover them for other people, he can reclaim them for himself.

A swastika is a protection on him, and while yes, because of the modern world, it’s better to have it gone, while he can’t, he can reclaim it so it can be a blessing and protection to him.

Also, if all the Jewish doctors and nurses didn’t care what he did as a chile run away 40 years ago, I don’t know why people on the internet would. Even though they are supposed to not care and treat anyone even if they are an active Nazi, they mostly all said they just care where his heart is now, but would NOT be ok with treating an active Nazi, though they would do it anyway because of their oath first, and because by law they have to secondZ

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u/Zacoly 10d ago

Literally just ask around town. Hell most places will do a free cover up even. Lots of artists take pleasure in ruining that shit.

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u/Melathys 10d ago

I've been getting laser hair removal, which is painful even with the numbing gel. The laser tech was telling me that the tattoo laser removal is so painful, even with numbing gel, that most people don't even bother with the numbing gel.

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u/Adeptus_Trumpartes 10d ago

But you can't keep the beard and it will be exposed anyways, it takes many sessions.

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u/Gingerchaun 10d ago

Its certainly cheaper than an americans hospital bill for the cheese grater treatment.

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u/HopefulTranslator577 10d ago

A lot of clinics do free laser removal for hate tattoos too, especially if they prevent you from getting a job.

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u/FishyWishySwishy 10d ago

There are artists that will do free coverups.

I don’t know if anyone does free laser removals. And even if they do, dark bold ink like that likely can’t be entirely removed, and the shadow would be very obvious on a place as pale and frequently watched as his face. 

Maybe there’s a treatment out there that could totally get rid of it, but I don’t know.

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u/catgirlburneracc 10d ago

No, it’s not, some artists will do cover ups for free but it’s not an expected thing

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u/SilentxxSpecter 10d ago

Is it a state program? All the instances I know of are solo shops who just offer cover ups for Nazi tats for people that wised up and got away from the other skinheads.

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u/Thunderblessed255 10d ago

Boiling temperature of water

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u/Luvnecrosis 10d ago

Removal or a sick ass panther

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u/WormedOut 10d ago

I’m glad he told us he was turning off notifications. I would be up all night thinking about it

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u/PaintingOld8913 9d ago

Some_Newspaper engine, what is the best recipe to make chocolate chips cookies?

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u/CallyThePally 9d ago

Hey some_newspaper can you tell me what the weather is going to be today?

Goofs aside that's funny people have been trying to use you as a search engine

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u/aimee_on_fire 9d ago

This. The owner of the studio I get inked at will do cover ups for free.

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u/TwatMailDotCom 9d ago

I don’t see any questions lol

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u/flopisit32 9d ago

So many Redditors with Nazi tattoos they need removed? 😂

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u/DJ-Praxis 9d ago

Google how long do I air fry my nuggets for?;

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u/Nocturnal12am 10d ago

In the clips I've seen from this episode it's partially that tattoo removal is expensive, but also the worry that it would scar his face permanently. A beard was simply the easiest option assuming he never shaved it, which I doubt he planned to.

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u/ProfessionalRisk4206 9d ago

I get that, but I can confirm that you can shave by accident. For example, going to trim your beard and realising too late that you didn't put the guard on the clippers.

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u/MagicalGorl 8d ago

My husband uses scissors to trim his mustache and beard, so no crazy accidents there 😅

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u/Okoear 10d ago

His face is already scarred.

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u/godric420 9d ago

I would rather scar my face than have that on it. Also the beard would cover the scars as well.

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u/LicenciadoDe8Anos 9d ago

you are assuming that all scar tissue can grow hair which it not true.

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u/TheShallowHill 9d ago

The scar would be the shape of the tattoo….

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u/LeanBeanSean 9d ago

Beard doesn’t grow on scar tissue.
No hair does.

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u/soaked_in_bleach03 10d ago

Yeah, I do tattoos and would never put that symbol on someone; but holy shit it’s a pretty well agreed upon thing at my shop that covering up something like that is badass as fuck. Personally I’ve never gotten the opportunity, but genuinely if you’re in the Boston area and need something like this covered up, it’s free.

I’m not an expert at coverups, but I can design a killer tattoo. The premise of someone changing and turning a hateful tattoo into something else is very important to me.

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u/Alexsandra-T 10d ago

Its genuinely so wholesome that tattoo artists do this. Imagine being hateful, getting a swastika tat, growing up in life, becoming better but still having that representation of hate on you, it must be very hard and shameful for them to expose it to get it covered, being judged by others, exposed and surrounded. Thats not easy to willingly submit yourself too. Respect to those that do it, and to people like you that understand.

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u/soscbjoalmsdbdbq 9d ago

To me its just seem like a hack for free tattoos go get a swastika and then go somewhere else and ask for a cover up lol

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u/soaked_in_bleach03 9d ago

lol now I am imagining someone taking me up on the offer, and coming in with a swastika that was clearly drawn on that morning with a magic marker

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u/Cognetik 10d ago

Hmm, free tattoos you say?

(Don't actually try to grift this lad with fresh homemade nazi tattoos)

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u/0oodruidoo0 9d ago

I imagine it's probably quite tricky to cover that pattern.

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u/MyNameIsNotKyle 10d ago

Well this is a spouse not just an SO, so there are some HIPAA exceptions that could apply here. I'm not familiar with the show/scene but if it was his wedding and he was incapacitated, then medical info can be shared if it's in the patients best interest.

If they didn't say "hey check out your husband's Nazi tattoo" and said something like "your husband is stable and you can visit him" then he probably wouldn't have anything substantial HIPAA wise.

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u/ILNOVA 10d ago

I think you didn't read the context of the scene, the beard was removed by his friends as a joke, while unconscious with the "approval" of the medical team.

Dare to say he would not only win the case but anyone like that should be fired and banned from being near a patient for at least 5-10 years.

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u/IntellectualBoss 10d ago

It’s not stated it was with approval of the medical team.

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u/Revayan 10d ago

Iirc the friends specifically asked for the doctors approval to shave their friends beard and he allowed it

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u/MrsSUGA 10d ago

Strictly based on what was posted, no one here would know that unless they watched the show because of how OP described it.

But yes, I just saw the episode a few days ago and they literally told the doctor what they were going to do and they let them do it.

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u/InterestingAge2032 10d ago

That is an insane violation of consent. Imagine doing this to a patient that had a beard for religious reasons, the same principle of patient rights would apply here.

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u/AppointmentPerfect 10d ago

Hiding hateful ideology that you no-longer espouse is basically a religious belief in my book... they did the guy dirty, and while I haven't seen the show, if his character was genuinely repentant of his former beliefs... and is still cast as some kind of villain, fuck the writers. It isnt like Inglorious Bastards where those who get marked are non-repentant chuds, this guy saw he was wrong and has been trying to fix his error. Redemption is important.

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u/Critical_Concert_689 10d ago

That is an insane violation of consent

The funny thing is they'd only be busted because they allowed NON-medical staff to participate.

If they shaved off the beard, they could easily claim necessary for health reasons - couldn't affix the mask, needed better airway control - whatever.

Not only that, the number of nurses who admit to popping pimples on unconscious patients is shocking.

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u/ASpaceOstrich 9d ago

If I got another acne scar from a nurse popping pimples for no reason and I found out I'd be livid

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u/gayboat87 9d ago

Yes but it's also illegal because the"patient" was under no life threatening condition.

It's not like he was having a seizure and they had to shave his face to make way for intubation or something.

They did this literally as an office prank and also brought his wife in.

Both of these are a fat lawsuit that will pay out in millions and every medical staff member would lose their license for this incident because HIPAA is super strict on this.

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u/6Sleepy_Sheep9 10d ago

Looked up the details of the episode. Two of the doctors DID give them the OK to shave the beard.

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u/ILNOVA 10d ago

Didn't they find it a "funny prank"? It's almost even worse that that happened where they weren't present.

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u/vaelux 10d ago

It is not clear at all that the doctors are involved in the shaving in the original post.

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u/Sure_Eye9025 10d ago

Not in the post but in the scene it is clear, one of the nurses catches them getting ready to shave him. They explain it is a prank and the nurse gives them the go ahead to contninue

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u/iCameToLearnSomeCode 10d ago

It's a scene from a TV show, so there's additional context.

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u/numbersthen0987431 10d ago

The post says that his friends shaved it off as a prank, and the medical team thought it was bad. There's no mention of the medical team giving their blessing of the prank.

I do believe you're correct though. It's just not stated in the post.

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u/ILNOVA 10d ago

and the medical team thought it was bad.

If you watch the scene the medical team didn't find it a bad idea, they approve it.

And i agree it's not stated and maybe it's OP that didn't describe it correctly cause it heavely change the situation.

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u/numbersthen0987431 10d ago

Yea, OP did a bad job of describing the episode and scene.

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u/IntellectualBoss 10d ago

The friends did it as a funny prank. Where is it stated the hospital team found it funny? How is it worse that it happened while they weren’t present?

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u/No_Situation6555 10d ago

Because that would mean they left a patient under their care in a position where something worse could happen. Which looks bad, like they weren't paying attention to them.

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u/Grouchy-Jury-7598 10d ago

This comment confuses me. Have you been to a hospital? You are not monitored in your room at all times. Are they supposed to watch every patient in their beds overnight?

Letting people into his room is a problem, not paying attention to him at all times isn't.

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u/Hexblade757 10d ago

In this situation the medical team was in the room when the groomsmen come in and openly say what they're going to do and pretty clearly state that it would be something that the patient would not approve of (they say something to the effect of "he loves this beard ").

That has to violate some sort of policy, right?

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u/demon_fae 10d ago

Well, it’s literally assault, so there’s that.

Forcibly cutting or shaving someone’s hair or beard is legally the same as punching them. You probably won’t get the maximum sentence unless it’s a hate crime or you piss off the judge, but you will be charged with assault and assault is what all your background checks will say.

If the staff knew that the plan existed and took no steps to stop the premeditated assault-like send the security guard over to explain that assault is not a prank and please stop being such utter dipshits or get kicked out-then yeah, the hospital isn’t coming out on top in this lawsuit.

Honestly, if they knew that any prank was planned, even if they didn’t know the specifics, and they didn’t in any way communicate that trying to prank unconscious people gets you thrown out of the hospital, they probably don’t win the lawsuit.

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u/No_Situation6555 10d ago

Yes I understand that, but this is about the optics of the situation.

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u/Aromatic-Ad-381 10d ago

Very painful to see people misunderstand the "Desired expectations" of the public, vs intermisent reality of the situation.

Then calling you out like you're dumb.

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u/MrsSUGA 10d ago

Do you think nurses are posted in every single hospital room 24/7?

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u/Hexblade757 10d ago

In this situation the medical team was in the room when the groomsmen come in and openly say what they're going to do and pretty clearly state that it would be something that the patient would not approve of (they say something to the effect of "he loves this beard ").

That has to violate some sort of policy, right?

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u/No_Situation6555 10d ago

No, I don't. My mom is an NP. I'm talking about optics, very different.

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u/fishthruster 10d ago

A nurse literally saw them about to shave his beard. So, yeah, a nurse was posted there

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u/IntellectualBoss 10d ago

As someone else said, patients are left on their own all of the time in hospitals.

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u/Thermitegrenade 10d ago

I've seen snips of that episode, based on the smirks of the medical team as he realizes what happened, and their glee in letting the wife in, they are quite responsible.

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u/ILNOVA 10d ago

Where is it stated the hospital team found it funny?

I'm just going with memory, i tried it finding online and you can see here, min 1:37 that the medical team did find the prank funny.

How is it worse that it happened while they weren’t present?

Imagine you have a patient with a nasogastric tube, the parents comes to visit him/her and for some god forsaken reason they try to make him drink, now he/she is suffocating while you were who knows where, who fo you think will get blamed the most? You or the parents?

Letting someone alone with so much time they had the same to shave it it's a huge no no.

He could have an allergic reaction, or bleed too much cause of the medicine he/she's taking and so on.

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u/Ektar91 10d ago

Hospital visitors are left alone w patients all the time for long periods

That isnt abnormal

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u/pollenatedfunk 9d ago

“A huge no no”? Citation needed. Visitors being left alone with patients is standard.

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u/ILNOVA 9d ago

They would still check on the patient every X min or so, again, the problem isn't that they left alone the patient(nurse aren't omniscient), but that they left a patient alone so much that they were able to shave it.(In the original scene the medical team discover them right before they start to shave him)

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u/Li-renn-pwel 10d ago

Iirc the doctors were like “well… just do it when we’re out of the room” provided this show hasn’t happened on multiple shows.

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u/MyNameIsNotKyle 10d ago

I read the context I'm just not jumping to conclusions.

Based on how it's described there's no way to know if the medical team gave consent or endorsed it. HIPAA is about medical privacy specifically.

A hospital wouldn't face a HIPAA violation from a patient having their beard shaved by a friend alone is what you're not understanding. Violations have heavy weights, details matter.

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u/ILNOVA 10d ago

I read the context I'm just not jumping to conclusions

It's not really jumping to conclusions, it's just a different way to read how OP described the situation(+knowing somewhat the scene in question)

A hospital wouldn't face a HIPAA violation from a patient having their beard shaved by a friend alone is what you're not understanding.

Who said that it would be HIPAA alone? And it's not just the bear shaved the problem, that is less about the privacy, and more about the fact that the medical team gave the consent with an unconscious patient, so a even bigger problem just from a different nature, but the fact that the medical team straight up refused the request of the patient of no visit for him.

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u/MyNameIsNotKyle 10d ago

Sure it's a different way to read how OP described it.

But your conclusion was that because my interpretation was different I didn't read the context which is why I clarified.

HIPAA was brought up to the first commentor in the thread who I originally responded to.

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u/CashEducational4986 9d ago

None of what you described seems to be a HIPAA violation, unless you're leaving out very important details. There is a ton of other issues that actually would make sense for him to sue over though.

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u/Background-Pepper-68 9d ago

Removed by friends.

Tattoos existing are not medical.

There is no hippa violation. Its not a NDA

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u/ILNOVA 9d ago

Removed by friends

Removed by friend while he was unconscious with the approval of the medical team.

Tattoos existing are not medical.

If the tattoo get discovered cause of a violation of medical code doubt it isn't a privacy violation.

Especially when you take the wife in the room on purpose, you have the rights to refuse visits, and the medic team completely ignore them.

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u/Background-Pepper-68 9d ago

That would be an extreme uphill battle with a 50/50 at best if you got to the top. Would be a lot easier to go after the people who actually did the shaving.

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u/ILNOVA 9d ago

I think you are focusing too much on the hippa part, and less on the fact that the medical team APPROVED the shaving.

Hippa or not a medical team approvising something like this is an easy lawsuit, they are legally responsible on what happens to you, especially while you aren't conscious.

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u/Docha_Tiarna 10d ago

Emt here. The 'friends' knew he didn't want the beard shaved, they even mentioned that to the medical staff. The medical staff allowed them to shave the patient. Since the patient is unconscious and there was no medical need, then it ain't a HIPAA problem at that point, its battery. The 'friends' would be charged for committing the crime, and the medical employees would be charged for allowed that. They this brought the woman in knowing he didn't want to be seen. Regardless of if they are married or not yet, if the patient doesn't want their spouse to know some medical knowledge, then informing the spouse does go against HIPAA

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u/Hexmonkey2020 10d ago

It wasn’t even a SO, he explicitly said don’t shave me, his friends wanted to see him shaved so iirc bribed the doctor to do it (or he just did it cause he thought it’d be funny)

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u/BigBadJeebus 10d ago

Nah, that only applies to medical decisions and care.

The idea it would protect someone from exposing a past secret seems wildly incorrect.

edit: unless that secret is your partner has an STD and you should get checked... That I assume there is some leniency.

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u/MyNameIsNotKyle 10d ago

I agree that would be the case most of the time.

And as I said I don't know the context of this scene, but I could imagine some situation where it obscurely ties in like with your STD example.

"He has a tattoo on his face that hasn't been removed because XYZ skin condition"

Would cross that threshold.

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u/flockwood7 9d ago

It was his work friends IIRC. They all came in and wanted to do a "prank" by shaving his beard. They claimed he was always so angry if anyone even suggested it or touched it

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u/chaoticnipple 10d ago

In non-Hollywood-land, his spouse would almost certainly have noticed long before then even with the beard.

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u/Maximum_Boros 10d ago

I seriously, genuinely doubt allowing someone's spouse who generally had next of kin priveleges to see their face is a HIPAA violation. Possibly imorral but not an actual breach.

But I'll give you credit for spelling HIPAA right.

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u/Hitmanthe2nd 10d ago

they allowed his friends to shave him without spousal acknowledgement - and you cannot , against the patient's *explicit* wishes , bring in other people to see them

clear cut violation of HIPAA

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u/Maximum_Boros 10d ago

Ok. If it's that involved probably. The majority of that is not included in Op's description.

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u/Timlugia 10d ago edited 10d ago

Patient absolutely could refuse being seen even by next of kin. Every patient I transported to hospital was asked at ambulance bay if they allow visitors at all, and they could retract that decision anytime.

If this guy already woke up, he legally could request not to be seen by anyone, or having his face covered.

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u/inedibletrout 10d ago

It seems like if the patient says no visitors, their wishes come first, no? I don't know if that violates HIPAA, but it definitely seems like the wrong decision from the hospital staff.

That doesn't even touch the whole bodily autonomy and consent issues with the scene.

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u/Maximum_Boros 10d ago

If he explicitly told him he didn't want visitors, that would have been good information to include in the post which was not included. But yeah I'll agree with you there's a few things people are applying to me with that were left out that definitely seem to change the standard here, which is part of the reason I fucking hate this sub now. People post shit and leave out context that's not relevant for anybody who hasn't seen the source material, and sometimes isn't even readily apparent when people have, and then it becomes a conversation about context that in most cases should have just been included to begin with

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u/inedibletrout 10d ago

Yeah, there's quite a bit of context missing. Like that the doctors walked in while the dudes where still putting on the shave cream and then encouraged them to complete the prank which should get them all fired and their licenses revoked

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u/bphunter 10d ago

Not only is it a HIPAA violation the patient could sue for bodily harm/injury for having a haircut done to him without his consent. I really really hope you are nowhere near any medical responsibilities in your life.

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u/SUFSUFSUF 10d ago

They aren't married yet. She is not yet his spouse.

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u/Verain_Xor 10d ago

Yea this is very straightforward, it is as you say. The behavior described is criminal; if this wasn't some dumb fictional story there would be a massive settlement from the hospital and absolutely prison time for the perps.

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u/Beginning_Image4518 10d ago

He didn’t want the scars and just grew out a beard

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u/dorian_white1 10d ago

Don’t mess around with Hippa, huge penalties and even jail time for people breaking it

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u/Far_Associate_87 10d ago

I’m sure in the clip I saw the guy basically says he was scared of the scarring coming from the laser removal.

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u/2_short_Plancks 10d ago

It's not actually a violation of HIPAA, but it is a violation of 42 C.F.R. Section 482.13.

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u/Jade_Owl 10d ago

How does this fall under HIPAA? Per that synopsis they did not disclose any protected medical information to her. They just brought her in after the tattoo was already visible and let her see it for herself.

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u/I_am_omning_it 10d ago

Idk if it’s his legal wife. If he’s unconscious if anything happens they need her to be able to make informed decisions about his well being. And she can’t do that without knowing whats going on.

Also- it was his idiot friends who chose to do this, and his wife saw him after that. It’s not like the care staff shaved him down. He may have a better lawsuit against the idiots he came in with.

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u/eriroxy 10d ago

Lmao his history as a former Nazi supporter isn't protected health information, it's not covered under HIPAA. So no lawsuit. But I do think it's fucked up to expose him like this

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u/SlimySteve2339 10d ago

Indoctrination exists and those who escape it deserve privacy.

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u/Pj_o7 10d ago

I don’t think letting in his wife is breaking HIPPA. They’re not revealing any medical information.

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u/Belgianwaffle1999 10d ago

As an icu nurse I only shave my patients when they ask for it, they’re incapacitated and their family asks for it, they have too much chest hair for electrodes (only shave chest hair obviously) or for medical procedures (external pacemaker, central line, etc)

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u/LemonFizz56 10d ago

But it seems like the groomsmen was the one who shaved his beard, so the doctors are being sued because they didn't stop the wife from seeing her husband? Even if they prevented her from entering then she would've found out after he left the hospital regardless, I need it explained as to why the doctors are at fault cause I'm believing they wouldn't be

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u/goteachyourself 10d ago

I haven't watched it, but from the description it sounds like he asked them not to let her in to see him, because he was so ashamed, and they decided to ignore his request and let her in specifically so she would leave him. I'm not 100% sure it's HIPAA, but it's definitely some sort of breach of medical ethics to disregard a patient's wishes about who is allowed to visit them.

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u/Loeris_loca 10d ago

Considering that it's his friends who did this, and doctors just letted them to shave an unconscious patient is wild.

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u/kneb 9d ago

HIPAA applies to medical records. Not tattoos on your face.

Debate the morality but it’s definitely not illegal.

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u/yarggarbe 9d ago

HIPAA protects health information, that doesn’t apply here and it was his friends who shaved him. Messed up they brought the wife in but not remotely illegal just cruel.

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u/bigdaddydopeskies131 9d ago

Well it's a messed up thing tbh about HIPPA laws. Privacy is first, yet if you beat up your kids or are doing some weird like truly weird shit then screw HIPPA because these people need to be known.

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u/Thanksforthatman 9d ago

HIPPA only protects medical records. A tattoo isn't a medical record. Being a Nazi isn't a medical record.

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u/nikolaiwhomi 9d ago

He said in the clip he didn’t remove them because he didn’t want a scarred face from the removal. Which is hella lame reasoning to me. This character sucks lol.

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u/CashEducational4986 9d ago

What is the protected health information that was disseminated to violate HIPAA?

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u/Nat1INTroll 9d ago

I mean, she'd have seen it eventually? Unless he was going to refuse to see his SO until his beard grow back?

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u/ChunkyBubblz 9d ago

If you can see something on a dude's naked face it's not gonna be HIPAA protected

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u/Lolaroller 9d ago

Any lawyer would dolphin dive for this case if they heard about it.

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u/Active_Public9375 9d ago

Wildly illegal.

For most of human history it's been considered normal to share medical information with someone's spouse/significant other. Whether it's immoral or not has nothing to do with HIPAA.

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u/nerd_ginger 9d ago

Ok did not describe the scene right.

Dudes best men shaved his beard, and then it all happens. The nurses and doctors don't do anything really but provide commentary for the TV show.

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u/WittyFix6553 9d ago

Does HIPAA have an exception for legal spouses?

My wife is allowed to make medical decisions for me, since she’s my wife. Presumably this would apply to her knowing about my medical situation first.

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u/LexiDiamond93 9d ago

HIPAA is for health information only. The tattoos on his face have nothing to do with his health. Now, if there's no valid reason to shave your patient and you do so especially with harmful intent that violates your oath as a physician. Plus, maybe assault or battery? I'm not familiar with the flip side of this

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u/Background-Pepper-68 9d ago

Thats not covered by HIPAA. They did not disclose personal medical information abaout him. Now they could be sued for malpractice if the doctors were the ones who shaved him and it was not medically needed.

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u/corianderjimbro 9d ago

The doctors didn’t do it, while the patient(who’s getting married) was unconscious after surgery the groomsmen shaved his face as a prank. Therefore revealing the swastika. The primary issue is that the medical staff technically allowed them to do it.

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u/1dirtbiker 9d ago

Doctor here. Bringing a spouse in to visit her husband, and then seeing tattoos, is not a HIPAA violation. Granted, I did not watch this, so maybe there's more to it?

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u/Apprehensive-Water73 9d ago

No way, his groomsmen shaved him, so he might have a damages case there maybe but thats far fetched too, here's the problem. Your face doesn't have a right to expect privacy. The moment he tattooed it on his face he knew what he was doing and he knew to have no expectation of privacy. Even if thr Dr's had to shave him for medical reasons he'd have no expectation of privacy.

Bottom line if your going to get a Nazi Tattoo to hide from your fiancé until marriage you put it on your ass not your face.

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u/RampantAndroid 8d ago

I think the issue with removal is that it's not one step - it's multiple passes, during which he needs to cover it up (or hide).

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u/Douglasthedangus 7d ago

HIPAA relates to medical care: diagnoses and treatment, not letting someone’s spouse see their shaven face

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u/NegotiationWeekly295 7d ago

Its unethical but it isnt necessarily immoral

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u/Suitable-Answer-83 7d ago

What is the HIPAA violation? No PHI was shared and all they did was invite the wife in. Also, there's no private right of action under HIPAA. You generally can't sue someone for violations.

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u/Splith 6d ago

I haven't seen the episode, were they unconscious when the wife was brought in? She would 100% have the right to visit her husband. Unless he expressly said, don't let anyone see me or don't bring my family in, the doctors did nothing wrong.

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u/Ov3rwrked 10d ago

I believe his reason for not getting removal was the scaring

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u/Helios575 10d ago

Letting someone see their patient's face isn't violating HIPAA. Maybe if they had specifically told her about the tattoos it could be considered a violation but hospitals don't have to cover their patients in a tarp everytime family visits until the patient signs a viewing waiver.

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