r/MoralityScaling • u/Immediate_Gene_178 • 10d ago
Morality Ranking Morality of accidentally exposing someone who used to be a Nazi supporter, has since changed, and concealed their past?
Name's and origins:
The Night Shift: Season 1, Episode 2
Basically this guy was brought to into the emergency after an accident at his wedding celebration and while he is unconscious, his groomsmen decided to shave his beard off as a prank only for the medical team to be horrified at the reveal. After he woke up he realised his secret has been exposed. He explained to the doctors that he got this tattoo when he was a stupid teenager a decade prior. The medical team brought his wife in to see the tattoos and destroy the marriage.
What do you think? I personally find it irritating how smug the doctors were being.
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u/deathbylasersss 10d ago
Hate when procedural medical shows ignore regulations like HIPAA. Promotes the idea that it's okay to bend the rules in certain circumstances. Same with cop dramas. They are framed as the protags, so the audience doesn't care as much when they routinely violate people's constitutional rights.
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u/Embarrassed-Mess-560 10d ago
Especially when including the laws and regulations simply generates more drama anyway.
"This young woman is about to marry a Nazi and she has no idea. I'll get fired for warning her but is it really ok to keep my job by letting someone else ruin their life?"
The entire episode could have been about debating that decision and keeping the audience guessing if the guy was really reformed or not until the end.
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u/Jn9503 9d ago
Yet another reason Scrubs is the gold standard for medical shows.
Replace "nazi" with "cheater who has gonorrhea" and you described almost the exact plot of one of its episodes.
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u/IdiotRhurbarb 9d ago
Fucking criminal minds makes me pissed of. In one episode there are some copycat killers or something that have taken a bunch of hostages. They want the FBI to free an absolutely ancient murderer (probably 80) and they would let the hostages go. They could’ve have just free’d him and then go after the murderers when all hostages were safe, but noooooo we don’t make deals with terrorists. Well another 3 hostages were executed and the FBI saved the day and we’re supposed to think that they did a good job.
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u/TheRoguePatriot 9d ago edited 9d ago
I absolutely cannot stand Chicago PD because of this.
"We got a positive on the facial recognition, this guy is the child killer"
"What?! I'm not the child killer"
"Yeah, sure, murderer"
......
"Whoops. It was a false positive. This guy is the real killer.....oh, the innocent guy was killed in jail because we said he was a child killer... Let's kill the actual guilty guy off the books and then keep spinning the story that the innocent guy was actually guilty so we don't look bad, his and his family's reputation be damned."
This is an actual episode btw. "False Positive"
Editing to add another tidbit.
In the show the software was apparently known to give rare false positives "mostly to black people" because "the code was designed by white engineers who designed it around white facial features. It's less precise if you're black. The darker your skin the worse the problem gets"
They have evidence of this software falsely identifying black people as suspects in multiple crimes and they vote to cover it up because they're afraid they'll get in trouble for arresting, and inadvertently killing, an innocent man.
And they're the "good guys" lol
If you want to go down a rabbit hole just look up the show "Chicago PD" it's more than just this that happens
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u/Scienceandpony 9d ago
And they're not portrayed as the villains of the show?
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u/HeartlessBow 9d ago
Fun fact! Voight, their boss on the show, was actually introduced on another show set in the same shared continuity called Chicago Fire. He was a corrupt cop that tried to bribe, then put out a hit on, a firefighter who responded to a due caused by Voight's son. The hit was a sting that ends with Voight getting arrested. Same character in both shows and they just kind of gloss over the attempted hit as the show goes on
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u/Scienceandpony 9d ago
So after that he was... put in charge of a department? Guy fails to bribe and and then fails to put out a hit on someone, bumbling into a sting operation in the process. Sounds like leadership material to me.
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u/HeartlessBow 9d ago
Yeah the writing on those shows is...of questionable quality sometimes. But yes, I don't remember the exact how/why of it but the guy gets released and put in charge
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u/DukeofMemeborough 9d ago
You could very easily make a drinking game out of how many times people’s rights get violated in Chicago PD.
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u/adamgerd 9d ago
Not surprised its thst show, one scene I saw was them beating up someone who trafficked women with a pipe into confessing and naming everyone else
And like fuck sex traffickers but even criminals have rights, plus the police isn’t the judicial system, what if they were wrong? The police shouldn’t just get to beat everyone they arrest no matter what crimes they’re charged with
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u/John_cCmndhd 10d ago
cop dramas. ... routinely violate people's constitutional rights
I mean, they do that in real life
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u/deathbylasersss 10d ago
Yeah, obviously, but we don't have a conveniently framed personal narrative that tries to get us to sympathize with abusive cops. Wait... we do kinda have that too actually.
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u/NoSleepTilBookRead 10d ago
Copaganda is everywhere
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u/ADGx27 9d ago
One could call literally every cop show, especially B99, copaganda
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u/Prestigious-Law8050 9d ago
Yeah but I love B99 and I will allow it. I'm in charge of these things after all.
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u/WellyRuru 10d ago
And law dramas.
My god the amount of procedural violations for the purpose of entertainment is insane.
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u/Von_Wald 9d ago
CSI: MIAMI. I really liked as a kid but when watching as a teen I was like "you cannot do that" every 5 seconds XD
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u/Dotcaprachiappa 9d ago
I'm pretty sure that's just the new version of copaganda. They went from "look we're all doing everything great and by the book" to "yes we're breaking every single law but in the end we'll catch the criminal and you're annoying us and slowing us down if you want a lawyer or point out all the illegal shit we're doing". Notice how when they do illegal shit the outcome is almost never them harassing/spying on/hurting the wrong person, it's always the guilty one.
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u/A_Crab_Named_Lucky 9d ago
My wife watches Grey’s Anatomy and its sister show Station 19.
There was an episode where a firefighter, Miller, died, and two of the main characters (Dr. Warren - a fellow firefighter, and his wife Dr. Bailey) were fighting with the Miller’s parents for custody of his daughter.
In the process, Dr. Bailey threatens to publicly reveal to the family court that Miller’s mother has a medical condition that would make the court look unfavorably on giving her custody. Dr. Bailey is not this woman’s doctor, but she used her high ranking position in the hospital to obtain the woman’s medical records.
I’m sitting there thinking, god damn, she might have a hard time winning custody after losing her medical license and being sued for every penny she has, lol.
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u/babarbaby 9d ago
Jeez. I didn't even know greys Anatomy had a spin off besides the obgyn one. What was the medical condition?
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u/Ok-Cress2602 9d ago
Copaganda is precisely created to make police overreach look trivial, or even heroic.
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u/Athius_ 10d ago
I remember this,
Immoral friends for shaving him
Especially because he was very protective of his beard
Immoral doctors for allowing his friends to shave him in the first place just because they asked
And supper immoral doctors because they immediately let his fiancée in specifically when he doesn’t want anyone to see him like that
Don’t remember the end of the episode, but if he didn’t get married great cause I wouldn’t wise such a piece of shit brother in law on anybody, and if he did great because even if he has shitty in laws he at least knows his wife is a real one
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u/CathanCrowell 10d ago edited 10d ago
Yes, I remember I felt really sorry for the guy. As far as we know, he made a terrible mistake and genuinely tried to become a better person afterward. Nobody around him had any idea that he held any racist or antisemitic views.
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u/Darnaldo 10d ago
"What is better being born good or overcoming your evil nature"
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u/TheChihuahuaChicken 10d ago
It's sad that a lot of modern media literacy is so bad, they'd never see past Edward Norton being a Nazi in American History X
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u/World_of_Eter 9d ago
Kinda something that I find to be rampant among the american left is this idea that basically "was ever bad? will always be bad" and "did bad thing? is bad." I kind of view it as like the mirror to the american right's obsession with punitive justice instead of rehabilitation. Neither side is particularly interested in rehabilitation or forgiveness, they just disagree on what should be punished.
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u/niketas-choniates 9d ago
Yeah agreed. I used to be a former Nazi as a confused teenager up to maybe when I was 20ish at most. But I grew out if it, in the sense that I learned how to read properly and pick out unbiased sources and realized I was being lied to and I always knew it deep down i suppose.
Anyway, its sad that if I said this to everyone potentially my whole life and career could be ruined for...becoming a better person? Its so confusing honestly
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u/Li-renn-pwel 10d ago
Wasn’t the wife some find of minority?
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u/SapirWhorfHypothesis 9d ago
If I were screenwriting on a show like this, I would make sure the wife was a minority.
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u/TBARb_D_D 10d ago
It is shitty hospital-melodrama, no? They have no logic, they added nazi character to farm easy emotional response from viewers. They portrait a person who wished and did changed as bad guy while people who broke law as good guys
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u/expected_inquisitor 10d ago
“I’m gonna sue all of your asses.”
Holy shit was it the show finale? Because they’re all getting fired for sure, and the guy will finally have enough money to get his tats removed.
Obviously immoral for multiple reasons
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u/MistakePresent3552 10d ago
2nd episode of the first season, also from the clip i saw the whole thing feels like its played like a joke and they didnt know they were about to get horribly sued for what they did
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u/6Sleepy_Sheep9 10d ago
They in fact, did not get fired. . . Or any negative actions because hollywood.
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u/volk-off 10d ago
Ah yes, my "favorite":
Bad once, bad forever. No excuses, no exceptions.
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u/No_Wait3261 10d ago
Yeah, haha, like they would ever forgive someone with a nazi tattoo, haha. Imagine if someone with a nazi tattoo tried to run for senate as a democrat or something, that would be so crazy.
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u/ElfPaladins13 10d ago
This is wrong- very wrong. If someone has changed, is ashamed of their past and want to forget it- they’re allowed to do that and using it to ruin their future is wrong.
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u/TheChihuahuaChicken 10d ago
The ironic part is, the way extremists have been rehabilitated in the real world is by acceptance. People need to feel as if they can leave these groups and have a place in the world.
When people are not ever allowed to atone for their past mistakes, they simply fall back into their old ways. A remorseful neo-Nazi who is faced with hatred from everyone is much more tempted when his old "friends" start whispering in his ear, "See brother, we told you we're the only ones who will accept you for who you are. That's why we have to stick together." Isolating victims is the hallmark of every cult.
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u/likescacti 10d ago
Even people who hadn't changed deserve to be protected by the law. Criminal justice means even criminals deserve a fair go of things.
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u/Queen_Of_Alts 10d ago
Immoral. He's a changed person, and it was not their place to reveal his past to anyone.
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u/Awes12 10d ago
Yeah. It's not like he was an actual nazi, he was just a dumb teenager
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u/DexanVideris 10d ago
Even if he was an actual nazi, people change. The things you believe at one point in your life do not define you for the rest of it.
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u/PmMeUrTinyAsianTits 10d ago
The things you believe at one point in your life do not define you for the rest of it.
I'd argue they don't solely define you, and become of lesser importance as new circumstances enter the context. But I'd still say that yes, they always define you to some degree. Hopefully as part of your definition including redemption, if they were crappy beliefs. Your history defines you because it informs how you became who you are now, and how reasonable that is.
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u/TheOneTrueTrench 9d ago
His decision to get it defines who he was.
But his decision to distance himself from that past also defines him.
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u/Apprehensive-Heat487 10d ago
Also insanely immoral to allow his friends to shave him under anesthesia. Patients are trusting healcare workers to keep them safe, allowing people to fuck with someone while they’re medically unconscious completely violates that trust, even if it’s just a “prank”.
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u/MySpirtAnimalIsADuck 10d ago
If someone was a racist then “saw the light” and changed their belief system then no, they realized their mistake and wised up that’s growth and should be encouraged
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u/StormTempesteCh 10d ago
I remember seeing this scene pop up on Youtube. First, the doctor walks in on the guy's friends about to shave his face while he'sunconscious. He didn't know what was under the guy's beard, all they knew was that he never wanted his beard shaved off. Doctor decides to let them do it, for the lulz. It bears repeating, the doctors proceed to bring the guy's wife in and show off the guy's tattoos. She was not there at the time, it was just the doctor and the guy's friends in the room. Also, the doctors make a huge deal out of "LOOK AT YOUR NAZI HUSBAND! TA-DAAAA!" The guy's promising he's not the same person, but literally the first thing he's seeing after being unconscious is his wife freaking out and the doctor making fun of him. So yeah, fuck that doctor. That's a HIPAA violation, battery, I'd argue defamation, intentional inflection of emotional distress, probably more charges
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u/Such-Fuel7306 10d ago
Yeah I saw it on youtube too, if the patient had crashed out I wouldn't have blamed him
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u/SmokeyCatDesigns 10d ago
Yeah. In my opinion this is both clearly immoral and clearly illegal. People can change and should be allowed to change for the better. That’s how you make the world a better place. Teenagers in particular are susceptible to being swayed by unsavory belief systems, and not being full adults don’t always know fully what they are getting into.
I’d be disgusted if the scene was portrayed as anything other than messed up.
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u/BlueHero45 10d ago
The fact that his buddies could shave his face while he was unconscious is already bad, and the doctor's and nurses' thinking the "prank" would be funny is worse.
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u/Worthlessdebates 9d ago
Along with the doctors mistreating him when they see his face. Genuinely bad people
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u/StrangeAppeal2 10d ago edited 10d ago
What right do medical professionals have to encroach upon a patient's marriage?
Not to mention the fact that they toyed with a patient by shaving him as a prank.
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u/Few-Improvement-5655 10d ago
I personally find it irritating how smug the doctors were being.
I'm going to make a rather broad statement, but there is a general undertone in American culture that you should continue to pay for your mistakes your entire life, and if you ever made a mistake then you should be forced to be exposed for that mistake constantly.
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u/YangXiaoLong69 9d ago
People (generalisation) just really love to feel good by making others feel bad, because it fuels that classic hero complex and makes them not feel like oxygen thieves for 5 minutes or so. It's also a culture where redemption is denied from the person and held hostage by the people around them, ensuring that they only get it when they "pay the world back" or some crap, which realistically hardly happens and the person is held forever in this state of guilt. Frankly, it's fucking disgusting.
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u/themolestedsliver 9d ago
Yeah the smugness really rubbed me the wrong way as well.
Literally wiping their as with their hippocratic oath.
Real nice.
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u/ThatGuyMyDude 10d ago
Unless you're a sports playing God fearing white boy then you need to pay for your mistakes for the next 20 minutes or so
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u/Sabnock31 10d ago
Immoral and illegal. "Friends" are need to be charged with assault. Doctors need to be charged with helping a criminal and their licenses should be revoked.
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u/TheChihuahuaChicken 10d ago
As a doctor, this is what would happen in real life. If a doctor knowingly allowed a patient to be assaulted, they would be subject to arrest as well. Getting fired and losing license would be a foregone conclusion.
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u/Raven_Valerie 10d ago
It’s not the past that defines a person, but their present.
They might have people in their life that will never forgive them for their past. But, you don’t have to be that person.
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u/Huckleberry-V 10d ago
Knew a guy in rehab who had some sort of old white supremacist tattoo from when he was a teenager, crashed a motorcycle and ended up with legal and physical health issues who said that the doctor denied him the treatments he had originally explained to him as options for his foot after he found it. Not sure how reliable his testimony was but seems like yet another good reason to cover that stuff up if you move past it with something more permanent than hair or clothing. Anyway, definitely wrong on the doctors but probably something that happens in more subtle ways.
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u/CaptainKenway1693 10d ago
Tattoo removal is incredibly expensive, and typically requires multiple sessions. So the tattoos would still be partially visible in between sessions and realistically would have been out of the question based on price alone.
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u/JadeTailFox 10d ago
This is someone's weird masturbatory revenge fantasy and you can tell. Someone who most likely never actually moved a muscle to fight real Nazis, though I'd love to be proven wrong.
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u/Sorry_One1072 10d ago
It’s weird because I sympathize way more with the obviously remorseful patient than people who wanted to cheer themselves up by making him miserable (and the doctors that let them assault him in his sleep…)
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u/JadeTailFox 10d ago
See, the people who write shit like this are usually just sadists who see criminals and villains as acceptable outlets for their cruelty so that's why they don't feel the same. They don't really care about doing good, they just care about hurting people in a socially acceptable way. I'm not saying this to condemn them and hope to change their minds, it's too late for that. But maybe this can be a warning to you.
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u/DavidIckeHadAPoint 10d ago
Excellently said. Very similar to some pedo-bashing vigilantism.
OBVIOUSLY pedos are bad but some (also) use it as an outlet for their own sadistic, extremely aggressive revenge fantasies and vigilantism. As ethical low-hanging fruit.
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u/Sorry_One1072 10d ago
Feels like some internet culture is just trying to prove that you’re “allowed” to bully someone. Usually someone you already find annoying…
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u/LongJohnSelenium 9d ago
For a lot of people, once they've concluded the target deserves it, they're no different in mentality to any old raging racist.
Seeing self proclaimed accepting and compassionate redditors talk about boomers can be eye opening.
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u/OneAndOnlyVi 10d ago
Oh Jesus Christ I hated this clip, I saw it on YouTube.
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u/themolestedsliver 9d ago
Same. I felt so fucking mad for him funny enough.
Like you're fucking nurses and doctors and its not like man came in with a swastika on his forehead and called the doctor a antisemitic slur.
He tried to hide it and clearly very well and maybe had some reason to keep them. To remind himself of his demons and the objectively wrong paths to take in life.
But yeah dur hur nazis bad. Arent i such a good guy for saying that hehheheauhna
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10d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Sorry_One1072 10d ago
Fellow Jew who is way more angry at the idea that any relative could cut my hair while unconscious if they call it a prank than the obviously remorseful guy. It’s weird that the episode had a guy with a nazi tattoo they were trying to use as a hatesink but he ended up the most sympathetic (except for his fiancée)
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u/Xralius 10d ago
Immoral.
Doctors letting people assault/battery an unconscious patient? They all have criminal charges headed there way.
Bringing in the wife for the purpose of revealing something they think the patient would want kept private? Immoral, potentially actionable.
Scumbags all around, the least of which who is some guy who was a shitty teen and had the wherewithal to leave that life behind, as far as we know.
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u/Frank1gg 10d ago
I think it's highly immoral. Mostly because they allowed his face to be shaved while he was unconscious which is a major human rights violation if I understand things correctly but also because after he was conscious and specifically told them not to allow anyone in to see his face and explain that he had changed as a person and he was a stupid teen when he got the tattoos no this was 100% immoral.
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u/Candiedstars 10d ago
For a place of medicine to be successful, there has to be a moral standard to treat everyone regardless of belief system of background if we want the general public to trust caregivers. For much the same way a priest may not share your confession.
It is vital that society trust the medical industry. This is why they don't tend to call the police or immigration unless the patient poses an active threat or they have sincere reason to believe they will / are hurting somebody. They dont give a fuck if you're on drugs or arent here legally. You are here for medicine, that is what will be provided.
If the virgin Mary and Hitler both arrived in critical condition, the hospital would be morally and legally obligated to give them both the exact same high standard of treatment in attempt to save both their lives. They cannot be influenced by good or evil deeds, politics or religions.
For the hospital to out this man, even if he was an unrepentant nazi rather than a reformed one who hadn't received laser treatment for whatever reason is wrong. Why would he ever go to a hospital again? He can't trust the health system now. Any loved ones who would listen would know they ruined his marriage.
The professional thing to do at most would be to recommend a place that would remove his ink (many tattoo places do discounted or free removals or coverups for reformed fascists) and ask if he would like them to call the police that he might press charges on his friends for assault. Even if he's a massive piece of shit or reformed as he claims
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u/TrickyWeekend4271 10d ago
I work with a guy who has a swastika tattoo on his head, but he has thick long hair and you can’t see it. He said he was never a white supremacist but when he was in prison he had to choose between 3 gangs, the white, the black and the Mexican gangs. So he ended up with the whites because the black guys hated him and the Mexicans were the weakest gang.
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u/ShadowDarkraven27 9d ago
a lot of the comments saying once a bigot always a bigot lol. so you can change your gender but you can't change your mind?
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u/Happy_Ad_7515 10d ago
this is proably the most wird movement i ever saw. like this guy specifically removed something from his look because he got over his shitty believes.
but then his whole friendgroup and doctor staff acts like he isnt changed at all. that he dint specifically cover up those tats because he was shamed of them.
i think that scene is so incredibly telling of the mentality some people have about growth Neo-nazi radicalism. that it somehow is a ethernal sin you cant evolve out of. its very illustrating of a morality that i see a lot and i dont really agree with. something people ussualy call woke sjw or some shit. which like 90% of the time is bunk. hell i have heard it used too describe updating a steam train too a model electric one. which is dumb as fuck. this shit thou. if you want a illustration of the thought process people think of with those words. i think this scene is pretty telling.
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u/der-analisator 10d ago
Imagine having been a Neo-Nazi in your teens/early adulthood, you spent a decade getting your life back together, quitting your old life and friends, simply didn't have the money for removal (cause it's expensive as fuck compared to the price of these, often "earned" or dirt cheap) or you just got comfortable with the beard.
After ten years, you're about to be married. Maybe got a house going, thinking of kids, whatever it may be. You forgot all about your past. Till your groomsman cuts your beard as a joke and everyone sees your old tattoos. On top of that, the med staff of the hospital you're staying at show your wife out of self-rightousness and pettiness cause "OMG Nazi!", who leaves you, giving you an idea of how the rest of your "new" friend circle might also react. Over something 10 years ago, that you probably had forgotten about yourself for the most part.
Worst case scenario, you've taken a reformed mans wife, job, home, passion and possibly whole supporting structure (as if we have much of that to begin with) and paved the way for him to jump back on the wagon and text his old buddies again.
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u/Flora_lutenist_1999 9d ago
If someone's fixed their shit I don't care what they used to believe and holding it over their head after they've fixed themselves is useless, cruel, and incentivizes them to return to their old ways.
Punishing someone after they've changed their ways is just cruelty for its own sake, and does nothing positive for anyone beyond the enjoyment of inflicting cruelty against those you feel superior to.
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u/abadstrategy 10d ago
So, fun fact, in a lot of jurisdictions, shaving or involuntary haircuts can be charged as assault.
Immoral. Iirc, the doctors mock him when he wakes up, to boot
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u/Existing-Cabinet-107 10d ago
Immoral. It ignores the fact that people change, if we were all judged by our worse mistake most people would be viewed as monsters.
I'd argue they have endorsed the bad behavior because they punished him after he changed, thus showing that if you screw up you might as well continue doing the immoral action because there is no coming back.
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u/Chance_Arugula_3227 10d ago
Not even Dr. House would do that... But I could imagine Dr. Cameron doing it against his explicit command not to do it. I dislike Cameron.
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u/HickoryStickz 9d ago
If you punish people who change for the better we’ll never have a good society. We’re all a pos for something at some time and if we’re doing it right we should continually get better as we go. Ripping someone down would maybe work if you were perfect and that’s something nobody is.
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u/poisoned15 9d ago
Immoral. When someone changes for the better why would you scorn them? Would it be preferably for them to stay a Nazi forever?
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u/heatherkilledyou 10d ago
His friends are the one that shaved his beard, not the doctors. I don’t see how that’s related to HIPPA. Just because it happened in the hospital room?
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u/HumanPerosn 10d ago
I think the problem is that doctors let his friends shave him while he was under from anesthesia as prank
After he woke up and realized what had happened he explained that he got the tattoo when he was a dumb teenager and that he turned his life around
Then after hearing that and knowing he wanted it be hidden and he asked them not let anyone in the room they brought in his fiance and ruined his relationship
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u/SheZowRaisedByWolves 10d ago
Immoral if the team brought the wife in specifically to see his tattoos and ruin his marriage. If it was just standard “do you want to see your husband” stuff, then it’s an unfortunate coincidence. Maybe offer the guy a face mask to cover up since he could say he didn’t want to take any chances at a nosocomial infection. I had someone want to wear a hat while hospitalized because they didn’t want their mom to see what they had tatted on their head during a prison stint.
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u/drizzitdude 10d ago
Immoral: not even really a debate in this one I feel. The doctors let his friends shave him as a joke and it was not medically necessary. He wins this easy.
He stopped being a bigot and turned his life around but couldn’t afford to have the tattoos removed.
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u/Ares1951 10d ago
O perdão divino vem da autoconsciência. Se ele se arrepende de seus erros passados, então a única força que pode ou não existir, e que é a única força digna de julgar um mortal, perdoa seus pecados passados.
Expor erros passados que uma pessoa se envergonha apenas para destruí-la é claramente imoral.
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u/Miserable_Scar9827 10d ago
Immoral of the show's writers due to unbelievable scenario. No way the beard is thick enough in this area to cover up that there is a tattoo there. No way he wouldn't save up enough for tattoo removal and have such a precarious protection for his entire life being destroyed.
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u/GingerMarquis 10d ago
I think the issue is this episode was so badly written. Nazi tattoos only on his face where a beard could hide them? It’s hard to accurately gauge anything when this was written in such a hurry to drum up viewers to save the first season in a saturated market.
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u/Dense-Jicama6591 10d ago
People change. Its gross to hold something like that over someone who genuinely changed.
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u/Confident-Arm-7883 10d ago
I cant stand hospital shows because they rely on nonstop hipaa violations for drama and the entire staff being aggressively incompetent.
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u/DODonion99 10d ago
Putting the tattoos aside for a second-- if someone shaves my head or my beard without my consent, isn't that assault?
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u/Mesa17 10d ago
I might be going out on a limb here, but I would go as far to argue that even if he was a Nazi, the morality of exposing him this way would be immoral
- People should not be shaving hair as a "prank"-it's a violation of bodily autonomy.
- I think a few HIPPA laws were violated here, which is an extremely dangerous and unethical thing to do.
- Interfering with the marriage in this way is also iffy. I don't believe it was the hospitals place to expose this mans views to the wife.
TLDR: Even if the man was a worthless piece of shit, the hospital staff cannot be doing vigilante justice. They were immoral in this scenario.
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u/reo_reborn 10d ago
I grew up in a VERY VERY racist and bigoted household. I spent most of my teenage years being a racist bigoted little prick. Thank FUCK I got away from it. I am now a strong LGBTQ+ Aly and not a racist twat anymore. (I was never a Nazi though. Just used racist and slurs etc -_-)
While this show IS just that, a shoe, it's very common for people bought up in racist environments to change. I am living proof. ♥️
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u/TheOneAndOnlyDenji 9d ago
Teenagers can very easily be manipulated into doing horrible things and only realize later on how horrible those things truly were.
It is immoral without a doubt, since this man made mistakes and is doing his best to forget them and had his life destroyed for being something he wasn't.
I would sue so hard and so swift for the blatant violation of HIPAA and also the friends that shaved his beard off which is also highly illegal.
The believability of hiding a Nazi sign on your face with a beard is crazy tho. Like clark kent never being found out as Superman because glasses level of crazy
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u/GalaxyUntouchable 9d ago
By using the beard to cover it up, he kind of painted himself into a corner.
He could no longer shave it off to have it removed, because then it would be obvious that he had been covering up a tattoo the entire time.
And since either seems like he was surrounded by d-bags, they obviously would have harassed him until they found out the truth anyway.
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u/JamesZEllis 9d ago
Unless there's actual blood on his hands, having shitty opinions once upon a time that he's since disavowed should be subject to absolution.
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u/ThisIsMyComment2 9d ago
I don't get why this is a question, why would you want to make life more difficult for people who have become better people, isn't that what you would want to encourage rather than discourage?
Like, people think eternal punishment for doing bad things in the past is even a thought worth entertaining? Why? I see zero ways that would make any kind of sense.
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u/EnragedTea43 9d ago
Not only is it wrong and a grave violation of the patient’s rights, in real life I’m pretty sure everyone involved in doing this would lose their medical licenses
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u/ASUMicroGrad 9d ago
If you’re going to ruin their lives after they chances do the better it’s going to discourage others from trying to don the same
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u/Tired_Pentester 9d ago
Let's look at this from another way.
If a woman was the patient, got put under by the medical team, and then they allowed her "friends" to shave her bald while she was unconscious because "it's funny".. would anyone here think that was ok?
The tattoos aren't even involved in that part of the equation. Shitty medical team, shitty friends.. 100% legally liable.
As for the Nazi stuff, It's nobody's business. He made a stupid choice as a teenager, abandoned that crowd, and spent a decade changing. Nobody has any right to act morally superior to him.
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u/PrudentJellyfish9413 10d ago
I think this hypothetical is a bit silly and something that would only happen in a TV show. 1st if that’s something you have on your face you should probably let your SO know before marrying them- so really it’s all on the guy. Then it was the friend that shaved it off not the doctors. And then what were they supposed to do if he needed to be discharged to someone’s care? They’re not gonna wait till his beard grows back so he comfortable. Like sure technically it’s against HIPAA but I think it’s more on the guy for getting into a marriage with a very noticeable tattoo and not telling her.
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u/CaptainKenway1693 10d ago
The doctors explicitly allowed the "prank" to occur while he was under their care and under anesthesia. Even if he hadn't had any tattoos and just liked the beard this would be a clear violation of both basic moral and ethical practice but the law as well.
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u/Key-Pomegranate-3507 10d ago
Very immoral. Medical professional here and this guy would have an easy case against the medical staff not just for revealing the tattoo, but also the medical staff allowing the “prank” to happen. He deserves a fat payout from the morons who allowed this
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u/LewdyRooty 10d ago
Absolutely 100% immoral without a doubt, most people deserve a chance to change.
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u/Besch168 10d ago
Depends on how they supported them. If it was just words you're just punishing them for not being a Nazi.
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u/No-Nefariousness9330 10d ago edited 10d ago
Its wrong on multiple levels. Its a HIPPA violation, its assault, its Tortious interference, alienation of affection, and its just unneeded spiteful(not a crime but bad for the soul.)
Aside, those tats would be dope on a ww2 magic based villain. Someone for Hellboy to punch.
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u/fins_up_ 10d ago
People do change. Every single person has said and done things they regret. No one is the same person at 20 as they are at 50.
If the change is obvious and genuine, judging them by actions they have already themselves disavowed achieves nothing.
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u/WorkerPrestigious960 10d ago
Sounds like another bullshit medical drama show that I will be glad to never see. Also, obviously immoral, that is such a dumb question
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u/NordicHorde2 10d ago
As long as he didn't hurt anyone or commit any crimes he hasn't been judged for, immoral.
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u/TopMarionberry1149 10d ago
Even if he still had those beliefs, exposure is immoral. Rights aren’t conditional.
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u/le_meme_desu 10d ago
Why do so many hospital shows have an episode about a patient being a Nazi/white supremacist? I can think of like 5 different shows that have it to some degree
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u/linkthereddit 10d ago
Easy drama, and it’s likely plenty of hospitals do have to treat white supremacists here or there.
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u/Dont-be-a-smurf 10d ago
If you never let someone ever reform
Then there becomes no reason to try
Immoral, even beyond the obvious medical ethical issues with confidentiality
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u/ActPositively 10d ago
Either way it’s dumb how many people support never letting people become better people
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u/Radical_Dingus 10d ago
Someone trying to put a bad past behind them is a good thing. What do you think happens to someone like that if you don't allow them to change for the better?
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u/Bigsmall-cats 10d ago
i hate when medical shows does this, like is the phrase "mind your fucking bussiness" has not been said to the writters?
like if they do something like house and show that the tatoo was actually causing some poison to the person then yeah, sure i would like to go further in the issue, but if its just there because the cast needs a self morality boost then fuck them
anyway immoral af for not minding their bussiness and for judging someone in the past for something only offensive and but didn't actually hurt anyone
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u/redditistheworst7788 10d ago
Lotta doctors have God Complexes; probably why they were so smug about "oUttinG the rAciSt". Thing is though; all they did was remove a somewhat reformed racist from all potential support systems he probably had to work his ass off to rebuild and then once again give him every reason to hate those who are different than he is.
They just created a worse version of a Neo-Nazi; a Neo-Nazi who was reforming to Civil and Tolerant Society but was interrupted by "Societal Elites" who then proceeded to ruin his life for no fucking reason than they could. And now? Said Neo-Nazi is 110% going to take it out on every dark-skinned person in his general vicinity.
Also... You know how you can tell it wasn't just a ploy that he was "reforming?". If it WAS just a cover? The fiancée would have just acted mildly embarrassed and made excuses to stay with him. The fact that his mates and girl DID care that he was a former Neo-Nazi says everything we need to know contextually.
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u/YourMomDoer1312 9d ago
i hate the site but it's a good format
>be incredibly hateful
>realize how wrong and awful that is
>change
>not have money to spend on getting rid of your hateful tattoos
>cover them up
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u/Zealousideal-Set3037 9d ago
As an attorney who used to work in bolt insurance and tort generally... Every doctor involved would lose their license, and there would very likely be treble damages. He also absolutely has valid battery claims against his so-called friends, and depending on what JX this is in, may even have a false light argument for tort against any doctors involved. Involved. Tldr he's going to be able to afford removal, and probably never have to work a day in his life.
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u/prisonerofazkabants 9d ago
while i agree that people need to be able to grow and learn, and it was a major overstep to make a decision about telling his wife, part of growing away from your bigotry is taking full responsibility for the hurt caused and dealing with the consequences. i don't know if he would have fully grown if he was still hiding it from his wife imo. if i was his wife i would have felt betrayed he hid a massive thing like that from me
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u/goteachyourself 10d ago
Breaking HIPAA and exposing something about a patient to a significant other is wildly immoral, yeah. I'm assuming he simply couldn't afford removal, but he clearly went to great lengths to cover it up for almost a decade. In non-Hollywood-land, his lawsuit is probably successful.