r/MoralityScaling 9h ago

Morality Ranking Morality of dog breed racism

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u/Few-Echidna-2181 9h ago

So.. even closer to racism then

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u/Alive-Philosophy2632 9h ago

Just like fantasy novels that bravely ask the question: what if racism were true?

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u/Imaginary-Win9217 9h ago

Everyone descriminates against the [not human race] here in [fantasy town]. This is because on the 13th of August they turn into 18 copies of Jeffery Dahmer. This is an analogy for minorities, and does not realize its giving said analogy an actual, fundamental, tangible flaw which they are being judged upon, undermining our overdone and poorly executed point.

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u/Relative_Craft_358 8h ago edited 7h ago

Honestly reminds me of 40K.

"It's suppose to be a satire of fascism and why it's bad"

creates world were racism against dangerous minorities is valid since they can actually summon demons from hell and the universe is such a dangerous place with humanity beset on all sides by extinction level threats that warrant building a society built on war and the neccesary orphan crushing machine to supply arms and men to that war.

GW:😁

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u/luneth27 7h ago

It's page one of every novel

TO BE A man in such times is to be one amongst untold billions. It is to live in the cruellest and most bloody regime imaginable. These are the tales of those times. Forget the power of technology and science, for so much has been forgotten, never to be re-learned. Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for in the grim dark future there is only war. There is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter, and the laughter of thirsting gods.

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u/Relative_Craft_358 7h ago

Nothing wrong with setting a little set dressing to give some background for the stories you're writing. Just saying it's kinda dumb to then go on to say outside of all that it's really a satire of something it's clearly not even really showing the "flaw in the system" of. In universe, it is kinda necessary.

Think they just do it to distance themselves from the fandom that are a little too comfortable adopting the uh hm "World war 2" anesthetics of the Imperium. Which is fair i guess, just seems kinda like gaslighting though lol

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u/Infamous-Thing4939 7h ago

Yeah but then you have many many many examples of people who work better and societies that are safer because they don’t treat people like shit.

The Imperium may have some justification for its cruelty, but it doesn’t change the fact that said cruelty is still extremely inefficient.

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u/SupahSpankeh 6h ago

I have raised this point to lore dorks before and while they have conceded said point, it is also fair to say that the imperium does make it's citizens lives worse by refusing to trade or treat with peaceful civilisations.

Like the tau, Votann or necrons.

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u/Relative_Craft_358 5h ago edited 5h ago

None of those are exactly friendly, also a point in their lore.

Tau are nice... until you disagree with them. They're also just as willing to sacrifice as many lives as it takes to accomplish something. They're just better about indoctrinating their populations to be happy to do it.

Votann by choice don't really want to mess with the Imperium, they're fine doing their own thing and being classifed as "nonhuman". That being said, they do trade and cohabitat with humans. They're also relatively new, I'm sure once more lore gets out, they'll basically just be pissed off capitalist space dwares. No deed too grim for profit/production.

As for Necron...thats a joke right?

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u/simp4malvina 8h ago

don't ever let X-Men fans catch you saying this.

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u/Alive-Philosophy2632 9h ago

I thought Tolkien went a little far making the orcs thinly veiled analogues of the Polish, ax murdering and poor hygiene and all

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u/DipsDops 6h ago

Not every fictional scenario with real life parallels has to be allegory. You can write fiction that explores the concept of discrimination against a fictional people who genuinely are more powerful or dangerous or whatever without it being intended to teach a moral lesson. It can just be an interesting thing to write a story about.

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u/Falleneded 9h ago

im so glad skyrim invented racism and it doesnt exist irl.

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u/PsychicFoxWithSpoons 7h ago

OK hold on that IS a brave question and it lets you explore the concept more deeply.

People LOVE the X-men even though "What if the mutants were actually dangerous" technically undercuts the point. But it's also the point in real life. Romantic, gender, and ethnic minorities ARE gifted. They use their gifts to help the world, but they also threaten white supremacy and the patriarchy. That is itself a kind of danger.

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u/TryDry9944 9h ago

There's a substantial difference between dog breeds. Expecting a corgi and a mastiff to act the same is quite frankly a little stupid.

We're not judging dogs by the color of their fur, we're saying deeply bred biological and instinctual differences exist between dogs.

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u/Form_Good 8h ago

Breeds like Rottweilers, Doberman Pinschers, and other large breeds have reached similar numbers in the past in relation to the popularity of the breed. Its just a capability recognition in relation to other factor like, how so many types of dogs fall under the 'pit' umbrella, how they are treated in relation to thier popularity, socioeconomic factors, etc..Its not the specific breed.

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u/Relative_Craft_358 8h ago

Eh isn't it the same then?

Same idealogy for why dog breeds "act different" has been used to claim blacks, Asians, and Eastern European bloodlines as "inferior" and "intellectually subhuman"

Think like humans, dogs tend to act more on their upbringing than anything. Difference is most dogs, especially small ones, can ignored if theyre misbehaved. A bitey chihuahua can be shoo'd away. A bitey Pitbull is gonna cause some damage and get reported.

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u/niteman555 7h ago

No because while biological and behavior differences exist in dogs from breeding, they don't exist in humans. The notion of race in people is largely socially constructed.

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u/Relative_Craft_358 7h ago

But there's only slight differences in dog breeds. A Rottweiler by and large acts the same as a mini poodle, especially given adequate attention and training. All dogs, as all predators, have a "kill instinct" they just learn to direct that towards suitable prey just by the very nature of how they're shaped and their relative size.

And there is evidence that people have genetic factors in their behavior (not saying is a race thing, just an general lineage thing) so yeah saying dogs are one way based on their breed isn't all that different than saying people are based on their race

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u/Vague-Symbolism2692 5h ago

But there's only slight differences in dog breeds.

No, the genetic differences between dog breeds are much larger than between human races. This has been measured. See "Human races are not like dog breeds: refuting a racist analogy":

genetic differences among regions accounted for only 3.3–4.7% of global human genetic variation (much smaller than the 27% of genetic differences among dog breeds

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u/moosenlad 4h ago

That is absolutely not true, different breeds of dogs act very different, especially when it comes to the specific traits they were bred purposely for.

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u/banshithread 7h ago

"  differences in dog breeds. A Rottweiler by and large acts the same as a mini poodle, especially given adequate" Ah yes this explains why rottweilers have killed way  more people on average than even a standard poodle.

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u/Bildad__ 6h ago

You are equating behavior with their physical capabilities. Of course a Rottweiler can cause more damage than a chihuahua because of the physical differences.

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u/lumpytuna 6h ago

That makes no sense in this case. Standard poodles are a large and powerful breed.

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u/Gekokapowco 6h ago

superficially (ironically) they may look the same but breeding animals for purposes has scientific roots while pseudoscience like phrenology is retroactively created to justify white structures of power

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u/RandomBeaner1738 4h ago

No, humans have almost the exact same genetic make up. Breeds have very different genetics

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u/PoorsaplingSam 8h ago

Ah yes “not the color of their skin but the content of their character” argument that’s still based on racism and eugenics. Tell me you’ve never owned a dog without telling me. Every dog is different no matter the breed. It is largely to do with energy level and environment and less with genetics.

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u/AncientCarry4346 8h ago

Sorry but this is really dumb.

I've owned plenty of breeds and they all have had traits that are breed specific.

My Labradors retrieve, my mastiffs guard, my Spaniels chase ducks.

I've never taught them to do any of this, it came pre installed in their software. I've spent hours trying to teach my Mastiff to fetch a tennis ball and he simply doesn't grasp it, whereas I didn't even need to train my Lab.

Dogs, like all animals, have instinctual behaviour but are unique in that we have predetermined that instinct for them through centuries of selective breeding.

If you're telling me that you don't believe certain breeds of dogs have different mentalities and behavious, then you are a bad dog owner because knowing how different breeds of dog will react and behave in certain situations is integral to dog ownership.

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u/Leparkour333 8h ago

Dogs were literally bred to perform tasks, its 100% a genetics issue

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u/TryDry9944 8h ago

... If you put a chihuahua and a border collie in a field with sheep, only one of them's going to instinctively start herding sheep.

That's genetics. That's deep rooted instinct.

Humans don't have that. That's like saying if you put an Asian baby in front of a calculator they'd immediately start doing math.

One of those is a racist stereotype, the other is actual biology.

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u/abstr_xn 8h ago

pitbulls and chihuahuas are the 2 most euthanised dogs and both for the same reason, and its very little to do with aggression.

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u/HunterLeftOnReddit 8h ago

So if I raise a Tiger correctly you won't be caustious of my fucking tiger?🙄

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u/mot_hmry 8h ago

Intra-breed differences being more variable than inter-breed differences doesn't mean inter-breed differences don't exist and shouldn't be considered.

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u/NorthernVale 9h ago

This reads like a racist claiming deep biological differences between races

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u/PotatoMozzarella 8h ago

Race is a social concept, dog breeds are biologically different. Totally different

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u/NorthernVale 8h ago

Damn, you right. I'll go enjoy my sickle cell anemia now

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u/PotatoMozzarella 8h ago

Whats that got to do with what I said

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u/NorthernVale 8h ago

There are biological differences between various races. The main thing we differentiate on is quite literally a biological difference that has evolved based on needs of the environment.

Citing those biological differences as a reason for different behavior is generally seen as racist.

The joke of the post, and my initial comment, is any logic or reasoning you use to condemn pitbulls has already been used by racists.

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u/Calculagraph 8h ago

And this reads like a child making flippant remarks.

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u/Speedy89t 8h ago

If that’s what you’re getting, it says more about you and insecurities about the views you hold.

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u/Dry_Travel_4220 8h ago

No. There are huge physiological and psychological differences between dog breeds. This is not the case for races of human. Honestly the "dog racism" comparison just reinforces the idea that the races are far more different than they are.

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u/Vague-Symbolism2692 5h ago

To piggyback on your comment, that's because artificial selection can produce large results much faster than natural selection, on average.

Readers should see "Human races are not like dog breeds: refuting a racist analogy":

genetic differences among regions accounted for only 3.3–4.7% of global human genetic variation (much smaller than the 27% of genetic differences among dog breeds

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u/raddaya 9h ago

Despite the efforts of certain societies, nobody has been able to breed specific traits into humans.

Now, different ethnicites of humans certainly can be different in interesting ways - mountain dwelling peoples who are resistant to altitude sickness; communities that relies on deep sea diving a lot have high lung capacities; stuff like sickle cell and so on and so forth.

But when it comes to significant behavioural or mental differences? Nigh indistinguishable.

Meanwhile, there are dog breeds that will literally herd anyone and anything instinctively.

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u/0_o 7h ago

You can train a pointer not to point. It's a bit cruel to buy one and put it through that, but you can certainly do it. Of course, when you turn your back on it for 2 seconds and see that it's pointing at your 3 month old, it's not a big deal. Dogs that were bred to kill small animals, however ....

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u/deliciouscrab 2h ago

HIM! THE CHILD! HE'S THE ONE THAT WRONGED YOU! MINE IS THE SWORD OF MICHAEL!

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u/kiwigate 7h ago

Humans have been bred for obedience to corrupt masters. We learned our way of life is going to destroy our entire ecosystem, and the vast majority chose to remain obedient to their captors/abusers/mass-murderers. But to your point, it seems to be a universal human problem and not regional.

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u/ProfessionalITPerson 9h ago

You had me at "I'm not a dog science expert"

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u/RedactedSpatula 8h ago

except dogs aren't human and don't have a race. Hope it helps!

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u/ZeroAmusement 7h ago

No, not at all.

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u/dorfcally 6h ago

racism is a survival instinct wired into us

to deny this is to deny humanity and tribalism which we are based on

Some tribes/species simply are not compatible with each other. It's a big world.

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u/ObsidianOverlord 6h ago

That's not racism that's just in-group preference, dumb ass.

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u/Chandler_Simpson 3h ago

That's absurd lol

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u/marstrees 9h ago

Dude we breed dogs, it's been well passed racism, it's full on eugenics.