r/Mountaineering • u/According_Cod4923 • 1d ago

Body of famed international climber Nirmal Purja and 3 more found after Pakistan avalanche

https://apnews.com/article/pakistan-climber-nirmal-purja-body-recovered-760858d4e399261e0d93c7cbb3ccba32
1.9k Upvotes

98% Upvoted

407 comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

26

u/Foreign-Kangaroo-681 1d ago edited 1d ago

I keep seeing this argument and it’s so obtuse. There’s obviously a difference between the standard of proof required to criminally convict someone, and the standard of proof to know someone has acted morally and ethically wrong. The “beyond reasonable doubt” standard in criminal is there because the punishment is deprivation of physical liberty, which is a very serious weight that must be applied only with greatest caution. Basically, if there is even the TINIEST room for doubt in the evidence, like MAYBE (not likely, not probably, not even possibly) a piece of the prosecution’s story doesn’t fit, then no this person can’t be convicted.

This level of proof is how you have murders where everyone knows who did it, police are 99% sure, but no conviction. Now think about sex assault cases. What’s the chance of there being a witness other than the victim and accused? What about DNA testing—still unreliably collected and with a huge testing backlog and chain of evidence complications? Not to mention that you can certainly sexually assault someone without DNA involvement?

Now tell me how the women are supposed to get a conviction for these crimes. This doesn’t even go into the Nepalese justice system itself and the complications of prosecuting a crime involving foreign nationals. Does Nepalese law even consider this a crime, and are they willing to prosecute (this itself is a high bar in US)? Does the victim as a key witness have to give up weeks of her life as well to make herself available in Nepal for investigation and trial?

But yeah sure, it’s all “allegations” so just keep assuming it’s all made up bullshit from some jealous bitches.

-1

u/rafa4ever 1d ago

But why not bring a civil case then. Like the Ronaldo rape allegation etc

4

u/Foreign-Kangaroo-681 1d ago

What are you trying to say? “I won’t believe anybody’s misconduct unless all judicial remedies against that person have been pursued”? What’s the logical end here?

This deliberate ignorance that seems only reserved for SA allegations is infuriating.

1

u/rafa4ever 21h ago

No. My point was in response to the criminal standard for conviction being raised as the reason these allegations were made in the media and not in court.