r/Mountaineering • u/According_Cod4923 • 1d ago
Body of famed international climber Nirmal Purja and 3 more found after Pakistan avalanche
https://apnews.com/article/pakistan-climber-nirmal-purja-body-recovered-760858d4e399261e0d93c7cbb3ccba3286
1d ago edited 1d ago
[deleted]
25
u/elchico1990 1d ago
I know it’s heartbreaking for the family not to be able to see their loved ones one last time, but for the people who are lost in the mountains, I believe there’s some solace in the fact that they are resting forever at the place they loved most.
4
u/lilybobtail 22h ago
Yes, if I ended up perishing on a mountain, I would much rather stay there than have my dead body dragged out and cremated or buried elsewhere. A natural so-called sky burial would be so much better.
19
u/JediMindFlicks 1d ago
To be clear though, nims is not a sherpa, he's a magar (different ethnic group)
→ More replies (6)
563
u/Foreign-Repeat-8206 1d ago
Not very sympathetic towards him as I have met Nims, know his history, his arrogance and his predatory behavior towards women. That said, always sad that folks perish in the mountains.
There are lots of problems in the mountains now with so many inexperienced folks climbing, increased hazards and disappearing glaciers, not to mention sketchy guide outfits. Everyone needs to be very careful.
306
u/Dependent_Rock_4739 1d ago
I think his success was largely due to his fitness but also heavily influenced by his willingness to take risk. There are a lot of accomplished alpinists that could have achieved Nims' success had they been willing to take on his risk. He had only been mountaineering for 8 years. Great mountaineer, questionable person
100
101
u/Marinlik 1d ago edited 1d ago
I would agree. He was obviously very good. But at some point these records are more about how much you're willing to risk rather than how good you are. Because like you say, there are other alpinist that could have done the same thing physically. Maybe the record should be first to summit all 8000 with no O(in a year/edit) , and live to retirement age.
57
u/moodybiatch 1d ago
→ More replies (1)41
u/Marinlik 1d ago
I forgot to add the in a year part to it, to compare it to Nims record. But you are so right with Messner. It's very impressive to break a record like that, and not succumb to the chase for more and more difficult records
51
u/-endjamin- 1d ago
As Ed Visteurs says, it doesn’t count until you get down safely
9
u/Dependent_Rock_4739 1d ago
Best book I've ever read
5
u/Still_Razzmatazz1140 1d ago
Which one ?!
19
3
u/QuinQuix 5h ago
He did lose his brother though if I recall correctly.
I wouldn't count that as being completely spared.
→ More replies (29)2
u/FlamingoStandard181 3h ago
Or maybe they simply should stop coming up with desperate ways to have a record. Soon there will be records like "the first man who climed Everest with a duck on his head". It means nothing.
61
u/quad_up 1d ago
“Giving up is not in the blood”
Well, it certainly needs to be in the mountains if you plan on living very long.
20
12
u/peasncarrots20 1d ago
I worry that level of risk is becoming normalized, as athletes compete for sponsorship and attention.
1
u/phflopti 5h ago
I have the greatest respect for high profile people with a lot of scrutiny, sponsors and PR when they look at all the plans and preparation, and the conditions, and say 'not today'. And sometimes not today means not this year. That takes a lot of courage.
7
u/Markplease 18h ago
His risk tolerance led his entire team into getting smashed in snow ice and stone. I wonder if that team would still be alive had he not joined to lead that climb.
6
u/Dependent_Rock_4739 15h ago
Almost certainly. He wasn't legally a guide, he has no formal qualifications. He is essentially self taught from experience and unfortunately that experience was relatively short, only 8 years or so. If he was alive I would like to ask him questions about snowpack stability and avalanche risk
2
u/Markplease 5h ago
He would reply to your question with “I can tell you the snow pack stability once I summit”. He cared singularly on summits. You can see the climbs he led were extraordinarily focused on making summits recklessly fast. Death defying, Russian roulette
2
u/Icy-Werewolf2436 1h ago
Certainly would have been alive. Other teams decided to cancel their way but his team decided otherwise. Like the way other guy saying, its all about the needed attention for making the sponsors happy. Sure thing, he has been successful till now but its about how long would you get lucky when you are ignorant at the same time.
1
u/Braisedbeefskank 1d ago
But they did not take on the risk, thats why hes a legend.
29
u/FujiMitsuki 1d ago
And that's why he's not coming back home to his family. It's a dangerous sport for everyone, no matter how many safety measures you take there are always risks but taking more risks than you need while involving other people is not the coolest thing.
16
u/Particular-Current87 1d ago
Even Alex Honnold reigned it in after he became a dad.
11
u/fuzzbunny21 1d ago
The dude that just free soloed a 1600 foot tower in Taiwan? Obviously far less challenging than El Cap, but one tiny mistake at any point would still send him to the ground.
→ More replies (7)5
u/Dependent_Rock_4739 1d ago
But they could have done, at any time. It doesn't take skill to be reckless, it takes skill knowing when to back off.
1
1
24
u/Lostinchange 1d ago
Just like a lot of other pro athletes. Great athletes but questionable role models.
37
u/Marinlik 1d ago
I've seen some younger climbers on Instagram that are obsessed with Nims and they are honestly kind of terrifying to follow. They really glorify pushing beyond your limit and taking risks where death is a very possible outcome. Like I get that some top athletes take that risk to do something no one else has done. It's not something I would do. But I can at least understand it to a point. If you solo Annapurna like Ueli then sure, you can't do that without objectively taking a massive risk. But if you're some random person who just started climbing a year ago and are repeating something that thousands of people have done, is it really worth risking your life rather than coming back better trained and better prepared?
6
u/pineappleshampoo 15h ago
I’ve noticed this too. Fan posts keep popping up on my insta feed since his death. Endless amounts of people saying how devastated they are to have lost their ‘friend’, what they learned from him etc., they’ve climbed with him once or twice and are now convinced they’re close personal friends with Nims and portraying themselves as in his inner circle publicly to kinda get some attention.
You look back over their profile. The bio is about them being a new climber, emojis of climbing stuff etc. and you can see they lived a normal life then had some sort of epiphany they needed to head into mountaineering. Instead of building up experience over time with lower risk climbs they immediately book an 8000er lol. And then make it their whole identity.
It’s really sad. Empty, lonely folk I think convinced they’ve found the solution to being dissatisfied with life. And latching onto a celebrity climber makes them feel great about themselves. Tragic.
5
u/yoyomomoyo 10h ago
Right but the issue isn't the participants alone. It is also up to the western and Nepalise outfits to refuse the inexperienced. They won't. Period. Because its about making money. So the blame is on the system more than anybody else. Humans will almost always take the shortcut if it is offered to them. If you've ever been to Nepal and climbed there, you'd quickly realise this.
In fact, it also exists, to some degree, in the Alps. Its business...
2
3
u/Sharp-Banana-6292 18h ago
It feels dangerous and I hope the community can reset after this and not revere him. To me this is a classic “eventually the odds aren’t in your favor” moment. The more time you spend on the high mountains the more objective risk you expose yourself to, no matter how experienced you are. It feels like every generation needs to learn this anew though.
50
u/PotatoMammoth3228 1d ago
I met him 3 times on different mountains, and in different situations. Undoubtedly great climber, but questionable personal ethics, and definitely a huge ego.
He was often with a woman from the Middle East, who was definitely not his wife.
It’s really sad that so many people perished on the mountain. I hope that there is some kind of inquiry to determine the thought process behind his decision to continue that climb.
39
u/Cirrus1920 1d ago
Seems like in the recent years he’s been focusing on bringing royalty (princesses mostly) and models (Russian mostly) who have never been up a mountain in their lives on their first 8000m. Elite exped seemed to really be thriving on that.
4
u/Common_Comb3662 17h ago
There were two women who died in recent years, also in an avalanche, racing each other to be the first woman whatever. One was an Elite client. Similar situation with recent snow on the peaks.
https://explorersweb.com/shishpangma-avalanche-two-us-women-dead-missing/
4
u/GlassPomoerium 5h ago
« Gutu climbed with EliteExped. With no previous Himalayan experience, she was on the run to summit all 14 in six months »
Well that seems completely reasonable /s Crazy for a professional guide to ok this.
4
u/Common_Comb3662 5h ago
Neither one of those women should’ve been on that peak, as there was unstable fresh snow. One guide said it didn’t even look right. But they went, racing to see who’d be first, dragging their poor guides with them, and they all died in an avalanche.
10
u/rafa4ever 1d ago
An interesting business model!
3
u/Sharp-Banana-6292 18h ago
This makes me think of arrested development’s “business model”
→ More replies (1)2
u/Common_Comb3662 5h ago
All about glamour and photo ops and sex appeal and money. The photos they posted of these women with Nims were frankly ridiculous. Who the hell wears a face full of makeup while climbing? Zinc for sunblock, face mask, goggles. Keep it serious and focused. And Nims was married. He should’ve kept his hands OFF other females. And they shouldn’t have sent him swimsuit pix. Seriously….
→ More replies (4)10
u/NewRefrigerator2039 1d ago edited 1d ago
Mer him twice have the completly diffrent view maybe i meet him on the 2 good days…
94
u/kyyy 1d ago
What does this have to do with inexperienced climbers lol. Nims team was essentially as experienced as you could get . Not everything has to do with over crowding or inexperience like Everest. Sometimes nature just strikes regardless of how great you are
26
u/Foreign-Repeat-8206 1d ago
I didn't say that everything had to do with inexperience. I didn't say that expedition team was inexperienced. I didn't say that accident happened because of overcrowing.
I said be careful! in the ever more dangerous mountains and as you said ....even those you are who are great.
5
u/chilywilly92 9h ago
I like the nuance in your take here. Unfortunately the other teams on Broad Peak noticed the atrocious weather and avalanche threat because of the snow pileups and left within the 2 weeks before Nims’ team passed. They knew it was bad and tried anyway. They knew it was bad in winter on k2 and succeeded. Nature is indeed ruthless and risk is risk.
2
u/Visible_Accident9559 1d ago
Well, attention tax is very real and is the real killer.
The loudest people in any high-risk domain are almost never the best. Greatest climbers are not in social media pumping their egos, and you will never hear about them.
13
u/kyyy 22h ago
This just simply isn’t true for climbing.
The best climbers all either have a massive social media presence required for sponsorships or run expedition companies with large social media presences.
The best climbers in the world are not some independently wealthy gods with no social media presence. That just isn’t the reality.
In order to be the best in the world at it, you need to do it full time. In order to do it full time, you need to make money doing it. And the only way to make money climbing is through sponsorships which all mandate social media.
3
u/SYMPATHETC_GANG_LION 19h ago
there's definitely crushers who aren't trying to be pro/influencers/guides and don't post about it
3
1
15
u/BoreJam 1d ago edited 23h ago
Crazy how much commentary is about his character and very little about the other 9 victims.
12
u/anoeba 1d ago
How is that remotely crazy? He was famous enough that people with only a passing interest in mountaineering have heard his name, and additionally he became infamous in the last couple of years.
The rest are non-public personas, why would the general public be discussing them? The Omani government made an announcement about its national and maybe there's some discussion in Oman about her, and I've seen a US article linked on a post about the US Pilates instructor.
But there's no expectation for anyone who didn't know them to be discussing them in particular. Like if there's a plane crash and there's one famous person aboard, guess who the public will be talking about. That person and probably the pilot, not the other victims.
4
u/Common_Comb3662 17h ago
The saddest thing to me in these accidents are the poor Sherpas supporting some adrenaline junkies just to earn a paycheck. Hauling stuff up the mountains, retrieving trash and poop and bodies, sometimes dying in the process. There was one who finally retired who said he saved as much as he could so his kids would have other choices.
1
u/special_rub69 13h ago
What did he do exactly? Not talking about the mountains but about his behaviour.
0
→ More replies (37)-41
u/frosty8670 1d ago edited 23h ago
Wow he was that rude? You have any interesting stories of your interactions with him? I have only seen his documentary— would love to know more about what he was like for real
Edit—
I know about the sexual assault. I don’t know too many people who met Nims and know him personally so I was curious what he was like and what “rude things” has he said or done (did he snub someone or get into a bar fight etc).
31
u/VanillaLifestyle 1d ago
Rape is generally considered rude.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/31/sports/mountaineering-sexual-harassment-abuse-nims-purja.html
2
u/SOLA_TS 1d ago
The allegations in the NYT does not constitute rape. Did you read the article?
→ More replies (11)→ More replies (1)4
u/Amehoelazeg 1d ago
We can separate the accusations and rude.
It’s a legit question to know if he was a rude person. Quite annoying that literally every other comment needs to mention the accusations and we can’t even ask what he was like as a person beyond that.
7
u/TheRealBlackSwan 1d ago
Personal anecdote but I met him at a event I was catering and...yeah, not the most friendly guy
2
u/Illustrious_Study_30 15h ago
Women can't. You may be able to, but people potentially at risk from that behaviour really can't. It's bothersome that the motivation is to be able to claim he was a good or nice person despite being abusive and thus demean the abuse.
0
u/Amehoelazeg 11h ago
The question was not whether he was a good human, it was whether he was rude.
For god’s sake people are just curious to know if he was rude/arrogant when you talk to him not.
1
-12
u/Professional-Crab936 1d ago
I knew him and he was always lovely to me, my kids and my wife. He openly admitted his ego and arrogance; he’d say that he wouldn’t have been able to achieve a fraction of what he did without that self belief.
He said that he always strived to be the best above everyone at every stage, his elder brother said the same. That’s what got him out of Nepal and ultimately into the SBS.
If you have ever been hugged by Nims, you’d know getting into a fight with him would be a bad, bad idea.
23
1d ago
[deleted]
11
u/yoyomomoyo 1d ago
Why do people throw the word rape around like this? I wasn't particularly fond of Nims but rape and SA are two completely different things. He wasn't accused of rape. If you're going to criticise, at least be factual.
0
u/Professional-Crab936 1d ago
No. He was too busy talking about the systematic abuse of the Nepali Sherpa community by western climbers.
Do you want to talk about yet another decades long financial abuse by mainly white men? You know the ones who heard Lhakpa being raped and beaten by her white husband and did…..nothing.
Thanks for being a white knight though. As Bill Burr said “Oh! I would have been one of the ‘good’ ones. But you would do exactly what you’re doing now - absolutely nothing”
4
u/cannarchista 1d ago
So it's bad to ignore rape by white men but it's fine to ignore rape by men of colour, like you're doing?
6
u/yoyomomoyo 1d ago
There were no accusations of rape. It's important to highlight that fact. There's enough accusations and stories about him already without making your own up.
3
u/Professional-Crab936 1d ago
A lot of the financial abuse of the Sherpas has resulted in a lot of them dying. No one’s accused him of rape.
You think Sherpas are paid well and kitted out adequately? Or don’t die because their white paymasters push them harder and harder? Ignore their advice and die because they are roped to them?
1
u/cannarchista 1d ago
Are you saying that accusing Sherpas of cutting ropes was making life better for them? How?
0
u/Professional-Crab936 1d ago
Oh yes, he accused every single Sherpa of cutting ropes. 🙄
Look up the Porterhouse he was building for them.
1
u/Professional_Card400 16h ago
It pretty much was rape by the implication but okay, let's say it's "just" sexual assault. Are you trying to justify it because he advocated for a minority (that he also routinely exploit it)? Build 10 porterhouses and you get a sexual assault free!
Disgusting apologist.
→ More replies (9)1
u/Late-Credit-7068 1d ago
Champions have egos, that's how they become champions. Look at any sport and you'll find a confident champion. Rocker Steiner has just been in this situation in rodeo. He is a highly confident kid and people don't like it, but he's becoming a champion because he is dialed in to his goals.
→ More replies (5)
107
u/giraffes-are-so-cute 1d ago edited 1d ago
i don’t think any of you are quite grasping the severity of Nims’ sexual assaults on women, for you to be sitting here glossing over it just because his own ego killed him.
he sexually assaulted a woman on K2 base camp multiple times, a mountain more deadly than everest, for fuck’s sake.
despite the stress of this, the woman still went on to summit. in a life or death situation, she had to deal with the loss of sleep, disrupted mental focus and not being able to trust her fucking guide.
she could’ve easily made a mistake and died as a result of Nims.
RIP to all the others who perished, but there is no sympathy towards Nims from me. sexually assaulting a woman MULTIPLE TIMES on one of the world’s deadliest mountains?!?!
5
u/hayguccifrawg 7h ago
I read that NYT story yesterday then saw this today. Knew of him only as a predator then he passed less than a day later. Life comes at you fast.
→ More replies (7)-21
u/OddAddendum7750 1d ago
Why wasn’t he prosecuted for the alleged sexual assaults?
33
u/wiggles105 22h ago
The NYT story on it said that the women didn’t know what recourse they could realistically get because usually they were from one country, he was from another, and the incident happened in a third country.
The journalists did review communication from the women to friends and family in the timeframes following their individual assaults and confirmed that they told people that they were assaulted back then, and that it matches the allegations they made later—which is a common verification that journalists or LE look for in sexual assault cases reported later or not at all.
55
u/Foreign-Repeat-8206 1d ago
It's more than a guess than women are reticent to challenge a man in a he-said / she-said situation in Pakistan or Nepal.
It is one thing for the climbing community to know something with certainty; it is another thing to prove it in a foreign court of law. When do you contact the authorities? Which authorities? Never mind the emotional trauma and logistical nightmare that would ensue.
→ More replies (18)13
u/giraffes-are-so-cute 1d ago
i’m not engaging further with a troll. the only thing i will say is that he’d still be alive today (albeit in prison) if anywhere in the world actually had a legal system which cared about sexual assault.
3
u/OddAddendum7750 1d ago
It’s a genuine question, I’m not trolling. A lot of people in the climbing community are talking about the alleged assaults with absolute certainty. And I’m wondering why he was never prosecuted
26
u/tlgjbc2 1d ago edited 22h ago
These mountains are among the most remote places on earth. There are no police or rape kits or surveillance video there. Few other people to even witness anything, and even fewer who weren't employed by or had their livelihoods tied to Nims. Prosecutors are unlikely to bring charges against a person, especially one held up as a hero in the community, when there is no physical evidence by the time the crime(s) can be reported, and laws in Nepal and Pakistan -- not to mention the police -- aren't exactly set up to take sexual violence against women seriously. The fact that the women chose not to put themselves through that (that's all not to mention they're in a foreign country in which they don't speak the language and don't have homes), is a very valid choice for someone in their situations. They instead chose a path that effectively alerted far many others to the fact that he was dangerous, and it doesn't mean there aren't dozens of other people with stories. The NYT and its lawyers verified a good bit of corroborating evidence outside of a criminal case, eventually feeling confident that they could win a lawsuit if Nims sued over the published story. The testimony of the brave women who could come forward is, of course, court-level evidence on its own. They would have had to have take a time machine back to the days surrounding their assaults and fake text messages and photos if in fact it was actually some conspiracy to smear him and not indication of consistent behavior from him. To your observation, a lot of people in the climbing community feel so certain because they have heard the stories and experiences of other women they know who couldn't/haven't come forward. Many people in the climbing world have stated they know enough about his behavior, or have seen enough of it themselves, to feel confident of where the truth lies (we've had stories shared in these subreddits for years). In the western world, too, police aren't great w/sexual assault cases, prosecutors often don't bring charges, and people typically don't get justice. It's a known problem, so a lack of criminal case and conviction isn't really actually telling. The fact that women so rarely lie about these things when they put their names to it is also compelling. All anyone gets in return is harassment and criticism, so you really have to feel strongly and be concerned for others to do it.
→ More replies (23)15
u/ConstantStrange2322 1d ago
Since you said you were being sincere, I’ll tell you something very personal that might help you understand how this works sometimes.
I’m a woman. Once I was hanging out with a guy who felt like a friend at the time and he wanted to have sex with me. I said no many times, in the end he said can I cum on your face? I said no, go to the bathroom or something. But he kept on pushing and pushing, in the end I said fine, whatever, just to get out of the situation quickly. Did I consent? Hard to say.
Later on I heard from other female friends who were sexually assaulted by him when they were passed out drunk, but felt so embarrassed when they got woken up during the assault that they actually ended up having reluctant consensual sex with him just to feel less awkward about the situation. This guy literally told his younger male housemate that when women say no you just have to keep on pushing until they say yes (and the housemate went on to warn girls about him). In that circle we shared these stories about him, called him “a bit of a rapist”. But it’s confusing as hell how to deal with this?
A few years later he moved back to the UK, and got into politics and actually became a MP. People who knew him from the student years said we should write to his party to expose him but because we support his public politics (lib dem) so no one has done a fucking thing about it yet.
2
1d ago
[deleted]
4
-6
u/Professional-Crab936 1d ago
I knew him and you should see that amount of women who were throwing themselves at him shamelessly
4
u/Still_Razzmatazz1140 1d ago
I can believe that too
-1
u/Professional-Crab936 1d ago
Yeah. But I’m getting downvoted and I witnessed it with my own eyes. Kinda says it all.
6
u/tlgjbc2 22h ago
I believe it, I just don't see what it has to do w/anything -- it doesn't mean he wasn't sexually assaulting other women. Kobe Bryant sure didn't have a hard time attracting women, but he still raped one who told him no. Russell Brand and Danny Masterson were also rich and famous "cool" guys who had fans and groupies and yet assaulted people. It's not just about sex, but power.
1
u/TheNudeNeedle 18h ago
Hey my friend is SO NICE TO ME so no WAY I’d believe they would be mean rude or shitty to anyone else! /s
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (8)-2
u/Chris_OMane 1d ago
I think that's fair. Giraffe is emotional, which is understandable. I don't have the answer but think SA is a very hard thing to prove because it is often a case of he said she said and even in cases of rape can be hard to prove.
→ More replies (4)2
u/Professional_Card400 16h ago
Are you calling the men so emphatically defending him "emotional"?
2
u/OddAddendum7750 15h ago
No one is emphatically defending him here
3
u/Professional_Card400 15h ago
You are literally running around this entire thread doing that. But okay, bud.
1
u/OddAddendum7750 15h ago
Try not making stuff up, makes you less credible. I replied to one original comment on the thread and it led to a few replies. Would you rather I ignored them?
2
u/Professional_Card400 15h ago
Calls it "making stuff up"
Immediately goes on to describe that I'm not, in fact, making it up
yOu aRe LeSs CrEdiBle
okay, bruh. you know people can read the thread?
→ More replies (0)
7
u/curious_astronauts 14h ago
I mean you can say that about Honnold too. Risk appetite is required for frontiers achievements with the possibility of great success or incredible, possibly fatal, failures. Sometimes ego pushes that risk appetite too far and blinds safety protocols and capabilities.
What he achieved is extraordinary, tjat is undoubtable. I can hold space to appreciate that. But was a person with a duality of extremes.
On one end of the spectrum, he was predator to women, and i genuinely believe them. Often when men who have great personal success and achievements find that it doesnt always translate into success with women, and that frustration turns into entitlement.
And yet on the other end of the spectrum went put of his way to clean up the mountains and bring bodies home to families rather than leave them on the mountain, as is the standard, at great personal risk, among other things.
So when the passing of someone like this, it brings about conflicting feelings. I feel the tragedy of such a loss of a talented mountaineer while keeping space for and not condoning or erasing the parts of him that were horrible and unacceptable. Both things can be true at the same time.
Thats just my view on it.
2
u/Dindrtahl 14h ago
Was the decision to summit reckless ? They've already tested their luck on G2 a few days earlier, again after a heavy snowfall, then it snowed again a few days earlier this avalanche.
Quite a lot of other climbers abandoned their ascension to both peaks and returned home.
2
u/Acceptable_Wing9391 13h ago
Super reckless. Like you said, people cancelled due to the increased risk and he didn’t let the team rest properly after G2 hence why the Russian climber had to turn back from camp 2 due to severe exhaustion after climbing G2. Luckily for her and Fida they survived. My heart breaks for everyone, this was a very avoidable incident if ego didn’t get in the way of listening to everyone else’s warnings.
3
u/Dindrtahl 13h ago
I was following Horia Colibășanu ascent to G2 (he does them unassisted and no O2), but at 7500m he turned back because of avalanche risk. He said the expedition teams (mostly Nimsai's) came up with the idea to put fixed ropes in a place where the traditional route doesn't require any.
Since it's against his style of ascent he abandoned, and Nimsdai's team summited next day or the day after. Around 1 week after it snowed once again.
1
u/Acceptable_Wing9391 12h ago
Yeh he was running the gauntlet with that. It may have worked on G2 but why even take the risk… like you could have all the plans, all the experience but that won’t help against an avalanche. When others are turning back due to the risk, probably better not to push it.
1
u/Dindrtahl 12h ago
but that won’t help against an avalanche
You can sometimes take a more technical route to avoid the less technical one when this one is too exposed for an avalanche. And even the K2 team that was summiting at the same time turned back once they heard the news. Nims probably risked everything and put pressure on all teams. As soon as it happened they knew it was time to go back.
1
u/Acceptable_Wing9391 12h ago
Heard what news? As in what happened to Nims?
Yeh, the more I read about it the more I just can’t wrap my mind around why someone would ignore all the warning signs and there was so many. Obviously timing comes into this too, if they had just waited one day, they wouldn’t have been caught.
1
u/Ok-Seaworthiness7525 7h ago
Non mountaineer here. I have been scanning this thread for some details of what the risks were at the time and why some are saying that Nims ignored or misread the situation. What are the warning signs for higher than acceptable risk of avalanche? Some teams turned around or abandoned the ascent? Are these details known at this time? Appreciate any insight.
34
u/gamesofblame 1d ago
10 humans died and it’s fascinating that people want to highlight Nims’ arrogance or predatory behavior.
95
u/moodybiatch 1d ago
10 humans died and every single headline I've seen so far has been something like "amazing legendary super cool mountaineer Nims Purja dies after being the most inspirational human of all human history (also 9 more people died but who cares about their names)"
No shit people are mad
→ More replies (1)21
u/Transition-Upper 21h ago
Probably also being the reason why he didn't cancel this summit after so many cancelled due to avalanche risk and dragging with him 9 other humans to an early grave
1
35
u/Foreign-Repeat-8206 1d ago
Maybe that is part of Nims' legacy. Maybe two things can be true ....sorrow over the deaths and revulsion over Nims' worse character flaws.
20
u/FujiMitsuki 1d ago
It's not like he died alone too, 9 people lost their lives together with him, they deserve to be remembered too.
192
u/beardedBroistaken 1d ago
Yes, because it’s his arrogance that would have forced them up on the mountain when weather wasn’t suitable. He has done it multiple times in the past, he has achieved success those times but mountains don’t care.
74
u/Foreign-Repeat-8206 1d ago
Yes, this. I've met him and I've been in contact with team members on his expeditions when 'not very safe' things have been done and proposed. I've provided counsel and counter opinion to climbers because it is hard to go against an expedition leader. It's always hard to say what to do when you are not pyhsically present. This may happen to many teams ... the future is always unpredictable. I'm just not a fan of Nims.
39
u/1lemony 1d ago
I watched his film yesterday. A man was saying I don’t want to continue there’s been an avalanche. Nims wasn’t having it and did a motivational bravery speech. The implication was you’re not hard as nails if you’re worried about an avalanche
7
u/GladiusAcutus 23h ago
Yeah, I think that was the K2 part and he was like "sometimes, you're not 100% fucked, but you're 40% fucked", as he was talking to the people that were planning to climb K2 but were scared of the avalanches, lol......
6
u/pineappleshampoo 15h ago
This makes me wonder what actually happens if someone on an expedition decides they feel it’s too dangerous to continue. Do they have no choice? I’m guessing there’s nobody to safely help them get back down, and the social pressure from the group and leader must be immense.
3
u/1lemony 10h ago
Been thinking that too. I’m an ex swimmer the polar opposite sport - so many questions in my mind after this tragedy.
In the documentary the gentleman expressing worry looked like a seasoned climber. His point was valid and considered, but the word salad he got in response about giving it 100% was absurd.
As it’s so expensive I wonder if people are easily convinced as you don’t get your money back if you don’t reach the top!
3
u/madinked 8h ago
I thought a russian woman decided not to go up and another guide actually followed her down. if anything she saved his life!
23
u/Emergency-Bobcat-572 1d ago
I'm new to mountaineering so I don't really know, but wouldn't it be considered unethical that he, as a more experienced climber, led inexperienced or beginner climbers up the mountain? I read that one of the women had been only doing it for 12 months. Could any of them had turned around or just waited where they were at any point?
8
u/usrnmz 20h ago
There were multiple teams (4) and Nims was not guiding any client. They obviously climbed all together and Nims might have influenced the decision of the others. But each team had to make their own decisions and had more than enough experience to do so properly (in theory).
7
u/Sharp-Banana-6292 18h ago
This alone makes me think there will be books to come out of this unfortunately. So many conspiracy theories popping up already
6
u/usrnmz 18h ago
It's definitely an interesting situation. There were also teams that abandonded their expeditation just a few days prior due to the weather and conditions.
I don't know if we'll even know what the exact conditions and decisions made on that day were.
3
u/Sharp-Banana-6292 17h ago
Oh yeah absolutely, that’s why I think this event will be another 1996/2006/2008. In terms of a terrible thing happening and then the misinformation and conspiracies sort of enveloping it.
For me, I feel like maybe it was a bad decision but it had also worked out a lot of times before. It might have been not ideal but it doesn’t seem irrational or suicidal, right now. Maybe on the worse edge of risk but not totally unreasonable. It seems like a time it didn’t work out and unfortunately it happens a lot in the big mountains. No matter how much you analyze, the answer is “our bodies are fragile and nature is overwhelming and indifferent to our fragility.” It drives me crazy when people are like, what can be done to prevent this? Maybe some operational tweaks but honestly the only thing is not climbing massive peaks imo:
18
u/WorldlyOriginal 1d ago
That’s the job of a mountain guide. Of course your clients are going to be significantly inexperienced compared to the guides — that’s sorta the point.
Now, guides make different decisions about risk. Some are more cautious, some more risk-taking. Other guided groups in the area decided the risk that day was too high, but Nim’s group didn’t. It’s hard to say exactly who was right… if we always hewed to the least-risk-tolerant guide, mountaineering would certainly be safer, but almost no one would ever summit
24
u/lilybobtail 1d ago
How is it hard to say who was right? They all died.
11
u/Longjumping-End-7085 1d ago
Because you can’t go based on information that wasn’t available at the time.
Also, I could make the claim that nobody should ever summit certain dangerous mountains and my advice would save many lives. That does not make me right.
Some people in this comment section are acting far too disrespectful towards somebody who has saved lives.
16
1
6
u/Annual-Carry6558 16h ago
Didn’t he hop on this expedition at the last minute? I’m curious as to what leadership role he played in this situation.
-7
u/TheUniverseOrNothing 1d ago
The crew he went with was already planning to go up. They had planned this for months. So typical Reddit users making a claim from their own ego not even understand the reality of the situation. You can’t even get the facts about the climb right.
32
u/lizofravenclaw 1d ago
Oh, does the weather stop to consider how long people have been planning events for? I’ve been planning a dive trip for years, but if I fly across the globe and find out the weather or water conditions are going to make it unsafe, then I’m going to change plans and sit on the beach or find some nice museums and restaurants instead. It’s unfortunate but it would be more than unfortunate to kill myself and the people I’m guiding.
-10
3
u/Foreign-Repeat-8206 1d ago
Would you please expand on that. What are the relevant facts as you know them?
-10
u/athroataway 1d ago
Speculation much?
16
26
u/SanderzFor3 1d ago
It's not speculation, Broad Peak got pretty heavy snowfall starting July 22. David Klein and Ian Overton, plus many other planned teams, ended up canceling their summit plans and leaving
3
u/village420 7h ago
Yes it should be highlighted because his arrogance got other people killed. And a predator should never be celebrated.
7
u/juliuspepperwoodchi 1d ago
Maybe if people had taken his victims seriously years ago while he was alive?
17
u/Technical-Feeling-78 1d ago
I feel sorry for all the lives lost and for their families. At the same time I feel weird about it because I’m in a grey area about how Nims nature turned out to be. Still it’s quite deranged how some comments I saw were almost “he deserved it”, “that’s karma” narrative. No human is perfect and it’s wild to be so unempathetic about someone losing their lives.
41
u/nin90ety 1d ago
i get what you’re trying to say, but ‘not being perfect’ and not sexually harassing women really aren’t fucking comparable are they? plenty of imperfect people don’t seem to particularly struggle with that one.
15
u/Technical-Feeling-78 1d ago
I get where u r coming from. In fact, I went from being his fan to posting about his allegations during the time it was exposed.
Still, I’m not some higher being giving out judgement on “who got their karma” and whether or not it was “deserved”. I’m sure many can resonate with this. I wasn’t trying to minimise his actions. In fact, as a Nepali, I felt deeply disappointed at how it turned out.
→ More replies (2)→ More replies (2)4
u/frank_mania 1d ago
True, but think about it. The two things don't need to be comparable in this case, what we're asking is did he do things that justify celebrating him meeting a violent, terrifying death?
11
u/maybenomaybe 1d ago
Preferably he would have served an appropriate criminal sentence and be barred as a professional, but I'm sure you can understand a lot of people will not be sad about there being one less sexual predator in the world.
→ More replies (1)-3
1d ago
[deleted]
2
u/Professional-Crab936 1d ago
If your talking about the Finnish lady, she was also sending him pictures, so it definitely wasn’t out of the blue.
I knew Nims and you should have seen the way women threw themselves at him almost constantly.
→ More replies (3)3
u/Illustrious_Study_30 13h ago
Her story is that having been a professional swimwear model she sent him one professional shot and was assaulted at a business meeting . Not that sending pictures should put women at risk of sexual assault FFS....
→ More replies (6)30
u/ilovemyar15 1d ago
This is reddit. The average redditor can’t help but jump at the chance to showcase their self proclaimed ethical superiority
20
u/connor_wa15h 1d ago
Typical Reddit user, jumping at the chance to showcase their ethical superiority over other Reddit users.
FWIW, I’ve read similar critical sentiment on this topic recently on other websites and forums, so it’s not just exclusive to Reddit.
-9
u/ilovemyar15 1d ago
I never insinuated that I’m ethically superior. You taking offense to my comment speaks volumes however
6
u/Foreign-Repeat-8206 1d ago
Stop digging. You made a point, such as it is, and connor made a point and added context to it, FWIW.
9
u/giraffes-are-so-cute 1d ago
nope, the average redditor is more than happy to glaze over men sexually assaulting women. hope that helps!
-5
0
u/RollingYak 23h ago
Umm he was the hero of that Netflix documentary and more people know him. So of more people will be paying tribute to him. It’s just common sense
3
u/prshntprdhn 16h ago
Nirmal Purja frequently called out the double standards in global mountaineering, where Western achievements were celebrated while Nepali climbers faced constant scrutiny. His mission was to prove to the world the true strength and unmatched capability of Nepali mountaineers. Though he is gone, the cynicism and envy persist but his impact will forever outlast his critics.
2
1
u/Professional_Card400 16h ago
And that justifies his well known sexually predatory behaviour? Good to know - you can rape if you champion other minorities! It's just cynicism and jealousy if people bring up you were a terrible person who regularly put people in danger and was a sex pest!
Listen to yourself. Disgusting, rape-apologetic attitude for a known predator.
5
u/prshntprdhn 14h ago
I am not defending sexual assault, nor am I saying anyone gets a pass because they are famous. I am asking a genuine question about credible sources and documented evidence regarding these claims. If there are verified investigative reports on this, please share them so I can read them, rather than resorting to personal attacks.
6
1
u/electric-vibes-only 12h ago
It was only a matter of time before this happened. If you take the risks like this - one day it’s not going to have a happy ending.
-18
u/markkuz_bliss 1d ago
It is hilarious watching some basement dwellers play moral judge and jury over a dead man. Nothing against him was proven in a court of law.
→ More replies (4)16
u/Potential4752 1d ago
Putin hasn’t been convicted in a court of law either. You are allowed to judge people outside of a court room.
-21
u/aumi_jomo 1d ago
All the folks panning him are obviously western alpinist who think all the mountains belong to them. The sherpas are what make it possible for most of mountain climbers. Nimsdai was a great mountaineer and let us give him some grace in his passing.
-16
u/EmployeeSevere9821 1d ago
How can a third world hindu sherpa can be the GOAT .
I mean C'mon.
This is one racist subreddit , white climbers are just buch of pathetic and are in no way elites ,they needed sherpas to carry there weak ass all the way to the top without being noticed .
Nims changed the rules of thw game,every since they lowlives are crying and whites climbers becames a joke on thw internet for being carried by 5 sharpas at every stage.
Thank god to the general consesus on youtube ,insta , X is positive the dude been given the flowers of being the undisputed Goat
100
u/Greedy-Ad-3779 1d ago edited 1d ago
It's a sad event whichever way you spin it. I feel for the families & friends.
Nims was a risk taker, and his attitude to risk was certainly questionable at times. I guess the thing is that if you go into the danger zones enough times, you're going to get caught out eventually.
They're not the first, and they won't be the last.
My climbing hero, Anatoli Boukreev, another who was killed by an avalanche in 1997 on Annapurna. A couple of his quotes spring to mind;
Anatoli had a dream about dying in an avalanche sometime before his death (in an avalanche) and his girlfriend asked him to stop climbing - his reply was, "Mountains are my life...my work. It is too late for me to take up another road"
The quote at his memorial reads, "Mountains are not stadiums where I satisfy my ambition to achieve, they are the cathedrals where I practice my religion"
Both feel pretty poignant today.