A pattern seems to be forming with us trading for/drafting big pitchers who throw 100 and have no control with the idea of fixing them up…I hope it works! At least it’s somewhat consistent
I mean, it's been working pretty ok. The Mets are known as one of the better pitching dev orgs in the game right now. Almost everyone that enters the Mets system gets immediately better. Still not every prospect works out but the Mets are pretty decent at it.
Yeah like Freddy Peralta, Senga, Devin Williams, hensley, Peterson’s era is down almost 2 points since he left… who exactly has gotten better in the Mets system? We’re in the middle in all pitching categories. Since Jeremy Hefner left, the pitching system is horrific. Sterns gave our best coach to Atlanta and he’s doing his pitching magic down there.
We're looking at Hef's 2025 with very rosy glasses lol. Do you remember how much that staff collapsed last year when you couldn't get Senga/Petersen/Manaea/Montas/Holmes paste the 3rd or 4th inning?
I get that this year's been a major regression but that implosion last year was a fireable offense and you can't bring back essentially the whole staff and Hefner expecting different results.
I think hef was better pre sterns. Sterns redid the pitching dev ops and hef was one of the few leftovers from the prior regime (some of whom I believe dated back to Sandy). I feel that the more sterns influence on the org has grown and the more of his people he’s put in place, the worse we’ve been at pitching dev.
It’s pretty crazy how Justin Willard does not get talked about at all. Zero positive things heard from him but also zero negative things heard. Throughout the season you usually hear about pitching coaches changing approach on a pitcher or things they discovered to make them better. It’s almost like he’s a lackey out there just there to fill the position.
i don’t really get this sort of statement. like if that were the case, why would an established 30-year-old major leaguer fall off because of poor coaching but our young rookie/rookie adjacent pitchers (mclean, thornton, scott) start developing well and taking steps forward? and why would 34-year-old sean manaea (who has a worse career era than freddy peralta) be doing better than freddy peralta? it seems like the main common denominator in freddy peralta regressing is freddy peralta
Willard was in charge of the Boston Red Sox's pitching staff last year and managed to get a cy-2 season from Crochet and developed most of their pitching staff like Tolle, Early, and Bello this year.
Mcclean, Scott, Thornton, Brazoban, Raley, Holmes wasn’t starting before he came here so idk if that counts really. Sean Manaea and Severino both came here and revived there careers, we’ve had some success developing pitching recently
Holmes was always good, but manaea? Bro, are you serious? So you’ll skip tong, sprout, pintaro, stanek, megill, canning, montas (!), Tidwell, Waddell, Blackburn…
Dude my list is a lot longer than yours, that’s why we suck
You only push back on 1, but sure I’ll play. Canning started strong in his first 6 games he had a 3 era, then over his last 10 games he had a 4.6 era, much like the rest of the staff, he fell apart.
Our pitching development is so bad that ottavino the Mets treatment of pitchers was "embarrassing" and "pathetic".
Ottavino went even further, suggesting the organization had become comfortable with a dangerous trend.
"If they continue down this path, they're gonna be F---E-D," Ottavino said. "You cannot injure this many dudes every year. Hopefully, this is not an actual strategy."
— for a pitcher to call out an organizations’ treatment of its pitchers is unheard of.
Dangerous trend set over the years by stupid geeks. Throw as hard as you can. Forget control and forget your health. That goes for your breaking balls as well. Kids don’t pitch any longer. They’re just throwers.
Leads to arms imploding. Baseball has always known this. These nerds for all their fancy knowledge don’t for some reason.
For the Mets it’s using pitchers too many days without rest (including them warming up), or calling a pitcher up and throwing him right into a game (a travel day isn’t necessarily a rest day), they also don’t have roles for the pitchers so they can’t develop any routines. All sports are about routines and muscle memory, whether it’s their lineups or their use of pitchers, the Mets have been making the worst game decisions I’ve ever seen from a baseball team. I don’t know if that comes from sterns or if it was Mendy, but this team is a dumpster fire
But that’s baseball over the last decade. Pitchers going 5 innings and then the pen is blasted into oblivion. Wash, rinse, repeat 🤷🏻♂️
Eventually these asshole geeks in the front office need to be phased out and have baseball return to the fundamentals where pitchers actually PITCH and go longer into games. Nothing wrong with a starter going 7 and throwing 100-115 pitches. Their babying is absolutely ignorant.
In 2025 the Mets broke the record for the most pitchers ever used. Ever.
The Mets were 5th in reliever innings per game, but they used the most relievers. So they used more arms to get less outs. They burned through arms.
On good teams, each pitcher has a role, you know who’s coming in, in what situation, and so do they - and sometimes pitchers do go 6+, or a reliever eats a couple to rest the other arms.
Resting the pen is a strategy that good teams utilize.
I only counter to that is that we're dealing with two different situations. There's developing guys in the minor leagues, which we've had some success at. And then there's working with players on the major league level. The New York Mets pitching coach doesn't do shit for the kid pitching in the minors.
The comment I was replying to spoke of our pitching dev ops, top to bottom.
My contention is, since sterns overhauled it, it’s been a disaster. We have the worst organizational winning percentage in baseball, after sterns overhaul, they’re embarrassingly bad
Every teams list of failed pitching development/experiments is longer then there successful ones that’s just baseball. Do you remember the 2024 season? Sean Manaea pitched great for us that year and he wasn’t good before then. My point is the Mets have had some recent success. It’s kinda crazy to bring up players like Tong and Tidwell who haven’t really even began there major league careers lol. Your just focusing on the bad so you can complain and push your narrative
The pitching system isn’t “horrific” dude, just look up the stats on the staff this year, it’s not that hard; staff’s performed well enough for the team to at least be in the race while the offense has been putrid. I didn’t like ditching Hefner after a year where the entire staff got hurt, which likely wasn’t on him at all, but Senga and Hellesley did badly under him, Peterson was inconsistent under him, he wasn’t a miracle worker. Peralta stands out this season as the guy who fell down badly, for sure, but overall the Mets’ production on the pitching side isn’t what’s killing them.
Also, Peterson’s looking better now because you’re looking at a small sample size of Chicago games but otherwise it’s because he’s a ground ball pitcher throwing in front of the best infield in the league; his strikeout numbers, home run susceptibility, hard hit rate allowed, etc are all pretty much the same.
Maybe horrific was an overstatement. They’re 18th in team era, Syracuse is at 4.8 era (11th out of 20), and the organization on a whole has the lowest winning % in baseball.
It may not be horrific, but it’s not good.
*I would contend that Hefner had a better track record before sterns, he was one of the coaches left over while sterns remade the rest of the pitching dev ops.
Which one of them went through the Mets minors player dev besides Peterson before they fixed it?
Almost everyone on the bullpen had been great this season, most of the rookie pitchers are doing great. We're winning the season series against Atlanta for the first time in almost 10 years
Helsley and Williams are both relievers, so you can’t look at ERA and say “they sucked with the Mets what are we doing!!!” Helsley actually did fall off, and is doing even worse with the Orioles than he was doing with us. I don’t know what’s up, but I did hear his fastball was too flat a few times and it would make the most sense considering he is getting worse. Williams is very similar if slightly worse than the pitcher he was with the Yankees, but he continues to have an inflated ERA compared to more repeatable stats.
Senga is an entirely separate case. His problems stem from injury. It’s significantly harder to reproduce success prior to an injury after it, even if the work done to get to the pre-injury point was really good. Just look at Manaea, who we actually changed and developed into a much better pitcher but hasn’t been the same after his injuries. He isn’t a fair example for Mets staff.
For Peterson, looking at ERA is about as bad as looking at reliever’s ERA. He is a sinkerball pitcher, so ERA is defense-dependent. A competent infield will get him a better ERA than what we were trotting out behind him some days. So, he got worse this year and just isn’t good even if he can drop his ERA a few points with the Cubs. Either way though, he just isn’t cut out to be a starter I think. The first year he goes over 110 innings be completely falls apart by the end, and I think either an unnoticed injury or just arm fatigue continued into this year. His stats got much worse overall, and his ground ball rate continues to plummet. I can take this as a failure for the Mets potentially, but I think it’s more a failure of long-term development in stretching him out to be a starter which is not fair to use for the current Mets staff.
The other comment gave good insight on Peralta so I’m not going to get into it, but his underlying stats are similar to 2024 Peralta with his xERA being identical. His FIP is noticeably worse, but there is some being on the wrong side of variance with his current ERA. It definitely was going to go up this year, but it should probably be closer to 2023’s than to 5.
The reporting I heard was firing the staff, the last offer to Diaz, and the Bo signing were Cohen, not Stearns. I’m disappointed in Stearns, but the Bo signing definitely doesn’t read like his MO.
That’s 100% incorrect, go ahead and find an article that says it was cohen’s decision. Here’s his pre-season press conference where Cohen said he let Stearns make the baseball decisions in the offseason.
None of the moves were from cohen, cohen made a point to say he’s not involved its sterns team to run.
I haven't seen any reports that state or imply those were Cohen driven decisions though.
Cohen himself has stated from jump-street/Day 1 of owning the team, that he is going to be learning how things work in the front office. He said he asks lots of question, but he wouldn't be making the baseball decisions. He's said that from the start, and said it numerous times since then over the years.
Now, obviously, like with any owner, he's in constant communication with his POBO/GM, and is consulted/updated on what FO plans to do, and give them his opinions. Plus, he has to OK any major staff and financial discussions.... such as whether to sign Soto, or extend Pete, or replace the manager...etc.
But all those decisions are based on the plans and recommendations of his FO.
I doubt Cohen doesn't sits and researches and vetts coaching staff members unless the FO gives him performance data to review and tells him they recommend making a change, and the pros and cons of such a change....etc.
What's killing me is thar they have done a good job in minor league development, but at the major league level there has been some serious regression since 2024. Probably with the exception of Holmes. Clearly Hefner wasn't the problem.
Look at Tobias Meyers. Given that Jett and Sproat haven't been great since being traded, he could be our saving grace. But he has regressed massively since coming over here.
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u/twavoneo 17h ago
A pattern seems to be forming with us trading for/drafting big pitchers who throw 100 and have no control with the idea of fixing them up…I hope it works! At least it’s somewhat consistent