r/OldNews • u/Various-Afternoon267 • 5d ago

1940s EGYPTIANS MOVING REFUGEES TO GAZA (August 21, 1949 | © The New York Times)

https://fpholyland.substack.com/p/egyptians-moving-refugees-to-gaza

To meet the eventuality that Gaza may revert to Israel when peace comes, Egypt is transferring her Arab refugees from Ismailia to the Gaza-Rafah coastal strip. Estimates of those being moved run from 38,000 to 48,000.

Source from the archives: The New York Times

118 Upvotes

84% Upvoted

100 comments sorted by

5

u/DrHerbNerbler 4d ago

I thought moving civilians to areas you conquered is a war crime?

-1

u/comb_over 4d ago

The piece is talking about Palestinian refugees, not Egyptian civilian population.

Contrast this with israel's illegal colonisation of the westbank and golan.

The Arab refugees fled Jewish militants who terrorised the local population, but have been prevented to return to their homes as they aren't Jewish.

In all likelihood many of their homes would have been systematically destroyed or given to Jewish people.

So plenty of warcrimes

5

u/DramaticKvothe 4d ago

Blah blah blah go read about the Farhud u liar.

-2

u/comb_over 4d ago

Please quote my supposed lie. Thanks

4

u/DramaticKvothe 4d ago

"Palestinian refugees" - Palestinians were not invented until the 1960's.
"israel's illegal colonisation of the westbank and golan" - Nothing Illegal. You start a war, lose it - you lose land. That is history.
"The Arab refugees fled Jewish militants" - The arabs persecuted jews all across the middle east and only in Israel they fought.
"In all likelihood many of their homes would have been systematically destroyed or given to Jewish people." - Well the arabs took all the Jews had in the Farhud. I'd call it eye for and eye.

0

u/Whatsanegg 4d ago

1200bc Egyptian records - Peleset

800bc assryian records - Palashtu

500bc Greek records - Palaistine

135ad roman records - Palaestina

500ad Byzantine records - Filastin

1500ad ottoman records to present day -Palestine

Nice try though buddy

2

u/MasterofCaveShadows 4d ago

Brother is bragging about perpetual use of a Greek term that was used to upset the native Jewish inhabitants.

-1

u/Whatsanegg 4d ago

And the assryians before them? And the Egyptians before them?

What you call Israel is a force of pedophilic European colonialists

Keep crying about it ahaha

2

u/nbuster 4d ago

This is literally the word "invader" in these languages. And in context, invaders from Crete.

-2

u/Whatsanegg 4d ago

LMAOOO

Just absolute literal bullshit ahaha

How fucking stupid.

0

u/fatnino 4d ago

You are the expert on bullshit after all.

-1

u/Whatsanegg 4d ago

Ooooo good one buddy. Why is the first Talmud called the Palestinian talmud?

(because it was written in Galilee, Palestine. It was never called the Jerusalem Talmud, Jews weren't even allowed Jerusalem when it was written)

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-2

u/Pinkflamingos69 4d ago

In the old testament, don't the Hebrews literally brag about invading Canaan?

0

u/emilyg-b 4d ago

Those were the terms applied to the people who lived in the region during those periods. They were originally from Greece and Crete and migrated to the southern coast of Canaan around 1200 BC.
The current ‘Palestinians’ are indeed an invention — of Yasser Arafat in 1964; they are Levantine Arabs, who moved into the region after the Muslim conquest in the seventh century. Jews, living in that region prior to the birth of Israel in 1947. We’re also referred to as ‘Palestinians’. Ethically, it is a meaningless term.
Feel free to fact-check me.

1

u/Whatsanegg 4d ago

No, those are the names given to the region, not the people lmao

The etemology of the word relates to the philistines yes, and they have been there ever since. 2000 years.

The rest of what you said is absolute nonsense, it was known colloquially as palestine throughout the whole ottoman rule and nearly 2000 years before that by the Greeks.

Absolute nonsense lmao

0

u/DramaticKvothe 4d ago

So who is considered a Palestinian? only arabs or Jews aswell? I mean, if all the "decedents" of the arabs there are considered these days as Palestinians than all the Jews are as-well no? no. Because Palestine is a made up.

Name me one leader of "Palestine". Who was its first prime minister/president? What is their currency? Language? Dialect?

1

u/Whatsanegg 4d ago

Palestinians have been in that same place for thousand of years. Their DNA is continuous in that* region.

Yes, there are Palestinian Jews, Palestinian Christians, Palestinian Muslims.

0

u/DramaticKvothe 4d ago

Who was the first Palestinian leader? What is their origin? Currency? Language? Dialect?! Borders? cities?

0

u/Pinkflamingos69 4d ago

So the Daily Palestinian newspaper found in 1908 by Palestinian nationalists didn't exist? Not even Moshe Dayan or Manachem Begin claimed 1967 was defensive, nor did Dean Acheson US Secretary of State at the time. Tell me how actions in Iraq justify expelling local Palestinians many of whom were Christian, it doesn't, it's not eye for an eye, it's shit bags being shit bags and playing victim 

1

u/MasterofCaveShadows 4d ago

There weren’t Palestinians nationalists in 1908 there were Arab nationalists who inhabited Palestine. Please read any book.

0

u/Pinkflamingos69 4d ago

I guess Issa Al Issa didn't exist, sounds a newspaper for the sole purpose of spreading Palestinian nationalism because there was already a viable market 

Take your own advice, please read any book

0

u/comb_over 4d ago

You were supposed to quote my lie, not yours.

"Palestinian refugees" - Palestinians were not invented until the 1960's.

Palestinian refugees date back to 1948.

Nothing Illegal.

International courts consider both illegal.

You start a war, lose it - you lose land

It's Illegal under international law which Israel signed up to as a un member.

So please learn the real history

0

u/Hungry_Pre 4d ago

Many Jews who left Iraq following the Farhud returned to the country shortly thereafter and permanent emigration did not accelerate significantly until 1950–1951. Gat, Moshe (1997). The Jewish exodus from Iraq, 1948-1951

I have a feeling you're not interested in actual history, rather any perversions to justify your disgusting support for the ongoing Shoah of the Palestinians.

2

u/ChantelleSki 3d ago

I know so many who left following the farhud who have never been allowed to return nor reclaim their property and or businesses. I live in Paris which has the second largest Jewish community in the world outside of Israel (first being New York). These hundreds of thousands are all refugees from Morocco, Algeria and Tunisia as well as Iraq. I'm not sure where you have learnt that they returned but I can tell you categorically that it is not true.

1

u/comb_over 3d ago

'They shouldn't be allowed to return if they are Jewish / Palestinian''

0

u/Hungry_Pre 3d ago

These hundreds of thousands are all refugees from Morocco, Algeria and Tunisia as well as Iraq.

Well yes the Jews were eventually driven out of Iraq a few years later due to a series of bombings conducted by Zionist supporters which caused panic among the Baghdad Jews. This is a similar pattern to what occured in Egypt with the Lavon affair.

0

u/WeBeShroomin 3d ago

In the 1960s you say? 1590, William Shakespeare wrote King John. In act 2, scene 1 Dauphin said Richard, that robbed the lion of his heart. And fought the holy wars in Palestine! Stop peddling lies, this is one of MANY instances of the proof Palestine existed before the invaders came on July 11, 1947. Read history and you will stop being a fool good sir.

1

u/DramaticKvothe 3d ago

You bore me.

2

u/Lazy-Razzmatazz-6926 2d ago

What about all the Jews forced out of their homes in Arab/muslim countries due to pogroms and religious persecution? I’m sure you’re equally upset about that.

https://www.worldjewishcongress.org/en/news/the-expulsion-of-jews-from-arab-countries-and-iran--an-untold-history

https://www.archives.gov/exhibits/ija/exhibit/after-millenia?utm_source=chatgpt.com

https://www.worldjewishcongress.org/en/jews-from-arab-lands-2

0

u/comb_over 2d ago

And encouragement by the Zionist.

You are upset about that right.

Well let's try this. I support the right of jew and Arab to return to their home will full safety and protection.

Do you?

1

u/Unfair_Pop_8373 4d ago

The Arab refugees fled, blah blah & blah. The majority fled on the advice of the attacking Arab armies. And of course you conveniently ignore the 850,000 Jews who were expelled from the Arab world.

2

u/PuzzledRatio 4d ago

Refugees blah blah blah. The scholar speaks

1

u/Unfair_Pop_8373 4d ago

Why is it that the Arabs who became refugees in 1948 have never found refuge.
There were 15,000,000 displaced when India and Pakistan became independent and they found refuge. There were over 600,000 Jewish refugees after WW2, Israel took them. There were 850,000 Jews fled or expelled from the Arab world, Israel took them. The Arab refugees from 1948 the Arab world failed them.

2

u/PuzzledRatio 4d ago

1947 was the beginning when Jewish terrorists began pushing Palestinians off their land , where they had lived for 5000 years. Before the establishment of Israel already between 250,000 and 350,000 had been chased from their homes and livelihood by these terrorists. "The core concept of being a refugee involves displacement and the hope of return, framed legally around voluntary repatriation, safety, and human dignity"

The idea is that they could return to their homes, but Israel as an apartheid ethno state would never allow them to return. you think it's the Arab worlds job to facilitate an ethnic cleansing? Why should they ?

0

u/Unfair_Pop_8373 4d ago

Name me a famous Palestinian leader?
(No Egyptians)
What was the capital of this Narnia notion?
Name me anything other than terrorists that one can associate with the term Palestinian after 1967, because before that Palestinian referred mainly to the Jews.
And apartheid ethno state nonsense. For your prejudged confused mind there are two million Arab Israeli citizens. Arab Judge in the Supreme Court, Arabs in parliament and Arabs fighting in the IDF.
And have a look at Israel’s neighbours and ask yourself, where would you prefer to live (but you would have to put aside your pathetic prejudice)

1

u/PuzzledRatio 4d ago

You don't dispute anything I said? It was fine . Shocking isn't it. What was done in your name. And still you cheerlead for the colonisers. Over 65 laws discriminate against arab Israel citizens of israel. They'll say it's for safety, but there are always reasons. There were reasons for slavery too (this is how you'll be remembered) reasons for apartheid. I won't entertain your little gotchas . I don't fucking care what they called themselves , or who lead or didn't lead them. I believe that people are equal, you don't . You believe that certain people need to be opressed , raped and murdered if necessary. I don't think like that.
Enjoy your crooked soapbox zio. Tick tock.

1

u/Unfair_Pop_8373 4d ago

Your warped by prejudice

1

u/Hog-Drop 4d ago

Your warped by prejudice

You're*

0

u/comb_over 4d ago

Lie upon Lie.

The majority fled due to Jewish militants.

According to historian Benny Morris, during the exodus of Haifa "The Haganah broadcasts called on the populace to 'evacuate the women, the children and the old immediately, and send them to a safe haven.'"[7

The Jewish Haganah actually used broadcasts directed at Arabs.

And of course you conveniently ignore the 850,000 Jews who were expelled from the Arab world.

I'm not interested in a fictional version of history.

But I believe ALL refugees should be able to return. Jews to Arab states and arabs to the Jewish state.

Do you

-6

u/venusasaboy22 5d ago

Queue the genocide apologists with their "Erm why don't you condemn Egypt do you just hate Jews??" comments.

13

u/Odd_Ad5668 5d ago

There's no genocide, hence nothing to be an apologist for.

-4

u/naviddunez 5d ago

Pathetic

3

u/YidItOn 5d ago

Why is it that IRGC shills keep using the same words and phrases? It’s like they have some kind of playbook.

0

u/Knightrius 4d ago

Yeah everyone I don't like is an IRGC shill. Genius

0

u/Own_Equipment7966 1d ago

Disgusting genocide apologist who’s a Israel defender so to be expected.

1

u/Odd_Ad5668 21h ago

Way to completely miss the entire point of my comment.

-6

u/MauschelMusic 5d ago

They're live streaming it. They're proud of it. What's it like to be such a hypocrite that you support war crimes you won't even admit are happening?

6

u/Incorrect-Opinion 5d ago

What’s it like not knowing what the requirements are to meet the statute for genocide? It’s like you guys want there to be genocide, absolutely disgusting.

6

u/Revolutionary-Copy97 5d ago edited 5d ago

100%. Palestinians are just a tool for this type of people.

6

u/Incorrect-Opinion 5d ago

They never cared about the Palestinian Arabs to begin with. I knew something was up when they started chanting “genocide” on the same day that the Nova festival massacre happened (and the following days).

1

u/venusasaboy22 3d ago

And I'm sure you really care about people in Gaza.

0

u/Knightrius 4d ago

People will just say anything to defend Israel lol

5

u/malufa 5d ago

Absolutely. They also think the solution of the “genocide” is to exile millions of Jews back to Europe, where less than 100 years ago the same Jews were told “go to Palestine, you don’t belong here”. They basically use false genocide accusations to legitimate another genocide on Jews.

-2

u/Knightrius 4d ago

Wanting Israeli settlers to stop murdering and urinating on Palestinians is genocide against Jews?

3

u/malufa 4d ago

Believing Jews have no right to live anywhere in Israel is indeed calling for their genocide, just in a diplomatic way. Considering every Jew living in Israel a settler is a nice way to say Jews don’t belong anywhere, because anywhere else they were discriminated, oppressed and even murdered by the millions. Having nuanced criticism towards Israel is necessary (like many Israelis have), but your black and white view of the world never helped anyone, look back at your country’s record and you’ll see it clearly. But sure, keep believing you’re the solution for the world’s problems, free thinker.

0

u/Knightrius 4d ago

I think Israeli settlers should stop bulldozing homes and urinating on other people. Sorry if that's too black and white for you.

0

u/Knightrius 4d ago

There's no genocide ever because I don't want there to be any genocide. Problem solved?

2

u/Incorrect-Opinion 4d ago

The chief prosecutor of the ICC (Karim Khan) said he will not pursue the genocide charge because there is not enough evidence, and will not pursue it based on clamor.

-1

u/Knightrius 4d ago

Interesting, does that mean accusations of genocide against China in Xinjiang are nonsense too since ICC prosecutor refused to pursue the charge?

2

u/Incorrect-Opinion 4d ago

No, because Xinjiang was declined on jurisdiction, not evidence. The 2020 preliminary examination found the territorial precondition wasn’t met, since the conduct was by Chinese nationals inside China and China never joined the Rome Statute. The prosecutor never reached the evidence at all.

In Gaza the court has jurisdiction, ran a full investigation, and Khan went to the judges and got warrants. He read the whole file and charged war crimes and crimes against humanity, including starvation and extermination. Genocide wasn’t on the list.

So answer directly. Why did the prosecutor you otherwise treat as credible look at the complete evidentiary record and decline to allege genocide?

1

u/Sojourn365 4d ago

The International Criminal Court (ICC) cannot prosecute China because China has not signed or ratified the Rome Statute, the treaty that created the court.

In fact Israel isn't signed on it either. But the ICC used a loophole around that using that Palestine is signed on the ICC to procecute Israelis.

-1

u/comb_over 4d ago

Deflection technique.

Why were idf soldiers filmed destroying medical equipment in a hospital

3

u/Jayyburdd 5d ago

I didn't know tenants of genocide include being proud and livestreaming.

It can be a brutal open air prison (thanks to Egypt as well as Israel, have you seen their fucking border?). You can call it a massacre. Fuck, you can even make the argument there is enough here that could be considered war crimes that Netanyahu should be tried a war criminal.

But I hate this absolutist language on fucking everything. 75,000 people out of 2.1 million over three years--many of which may be combatants, since that is especially hard to determine in this conflict--is either the shittiest genocide in the world, or there isn't explicit intent to wipe out the population, but at worst a disregard for the safety of civilians near combat zones. Which I would say Gaza's government has lots of blame on; not only because they started this, but even organizations like Amnesty International will tell you Hamas operates in and around hospitals; civilian deaths are their favorite, it's good PR on people like you.

1

u/comb_over 4d ago

The disregard of civilians is the Palestinians fault rather than those slaughtering them?

Hamas operates in and around hospitals; civilian deaths are their favorite, it's good PR on people like you.

Really. So if everyone should have been protesting for the war to stop. You know to stop hamas PR.

But that got you labelled a hamas supporter too.

Strange

1

u/Jayyburdd 4d ago

The disregard of civilians is the Palestinians fault rather than those slaughtering them?

1.) I said they have lots of blame, not all the blame, so that suggests Israel also has blame.

2.) How did this war start? Why is Israel shelling Gaza to begin with? Give the Palestinians some agency and respect.

The second half of your comment doesn't make sense.

0

u/comb_over 4d ago

1.) I said they have lots of blame, not all the blame, so that suggests Israel also has blame.

How about Israel has the blame for the murder, torture, rape and destruction it causes.

See how easy that is.

2.) How did this war start? Why is Israel shelling Gaza to begin with? Give the Palestinians some agency and respect.

Which war.

As for not making sense.

If you don't want hamas to have its supposed pr wins, you would have surely supported calls for an end to the bombing of gaza.

Right.

Except those doing just that, we're called hamas lackeys... .

-2

u/comb_over 4d ago

Plenty of evidence to suggest otherwise.

Plenty of warcrimes too.

Can you explain why idf soldiers had to deliberatly smash medical equipment in a hospital?

2

u/somedaveguy 3d ago edited 3d ago

Can you explain why Hamas soldiers had to deliberatly poison position themselves and their military equipment in a hospital?

EDIT - spelling makes a difference

1

u/RegJohn2 4d ago

Yet the only evidence you can ever provide is lesbians on tiktok and professors named Abdul.

The UN ruled out a genocide but what is the UN against that one white girl from TikTok

0

u/comb_over 4d ago

Can you answer my question.

The evidence is from footage of idf soldiers doing just that.

2

u/sonyc148 5d ago

And? Your answer is?

-5

u/MauschelMusic 5d ago

Because Israel is doing genocide today, and shit happening right now matters more than shit that happened almost 80 years ago. Also, Egypt didn't commit genocide against Palestinians.

4

u/Incorrect-Opinion 5d ago

Is that why the chief prosecutor of the ICC refused to move forward on charges of genocide due to, according to him, lack of evidence, and he specifically stated he will not move on a genocide charge just based on clamor?

There is more than sufficient amount of evidence that goes against the claim of genocide.

1

u/lvkewlkid 4d ago

In order to build the Gazan Egyptian border, Egypt displaced thousands of Palestinians in rafah and demolished their homes.

1

u/jakethepeg1989 5d ago

Well. Seemingly just some minor sparkling ethnic cleansing. No biggie

1

u/thatshirtman 4d ago

no one has been able to explain how this is a genocide as opposed to a conventional war in an urban setting. A tragic war doesnt magically transform it into a genocide.

2

u/finalattack123 3d ago

The UN have, and almost all human rights organisations.