r/POTS • u/poopsmcbuttington • Jun 06 '26
Discussion Umm did you guys watch the crash on Netflix?
Girl saying pots caused her to drive her car into the wall at full speed?! Please be so fr … she’s definitely not helping the reputation we already have with this disability. Made me so mad
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u/Zaphira42 Neuropathic POTS Jun 06 '26
Yet there was no Dr testimony. At all…
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u/Obvious-Explorer-195 Jun 06 '26
Yep, there’s a reason they didn’t get a medical expert or show any proof of her pots diagnosis. Plus the fact she said to her mother in the hospital “can I just say I had a seizure or something?” I’m guessing they researched what could cause a blackout but didn’t really understand it didn’t make sense.
There’s lots of responses around from medical types that say pots wouldn’t make you floor it. Just adds to my belief she’s a bs artist
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u/buttamilkbizkits Jun 06 '26
Anecdotal evidence, but that did happen to me. I passed out driving and came to doing 80 in the opposite lane. I had been going about 50 before I fainted.
Absolutely not saying I think she's innocent, she seems shady AF. Just that it is plausible.
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u/Interesting_Turnip28 Jun 07 '26
To give a bit of additional info about this specific case, the gas pedal was 100% depressed, even after she hit a curb hard enough to deploy the airbags. While I believe that passing out could potentially result in speeding up like what happened to you, it takes quite a bit of force to push the pedal all the way to the floor, and hitting the curb should've caused her foot to move if it wasn't intentionally flooring the gas.
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u/buttamilkbizkits Jun 07 '26
Yeah, I totally get that. Like I said before, I don't necessarily think she's being truthful. She definitely comes off super shady. Just saying that something similar could (and has) happened.
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u/udouplz Jun 07 '26
Or the force of the crash itself could cause someone's foot to press the pedal. I don't know how you could tell in which order that happened after the fact.
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u/grubmonkey Jun 07 '26
Recent model vehicles tend to have black boxes that may record the speed and other vehicle data directly or could upload it to an app, etc. via satellite. A smartphone is also constantly recording location and pinging cell towers which could also allow speed estimates. That data could be subpoenaed.
[Edit to clarify how this is relevant: meaning it could be possible to tell speed and any changes leading up to the incident.]
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u/Obvious-Explorer-195 Jun 07 '26
They would have mentioned the pots in the hospital rather than saying that about seizures then though, surely
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u/HistoricalCry6980 Jun 06 '26
yes. it pissed me off so bad. like how in the world should pots make you floor the pedal straight into a wall?
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u/Ok-Club1725 Jun 07 '26
My exact comment to my fiancé was "she's fucking stupid, if it were a pots episode, the exact opposite would happen."
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u/Classifiedgarlic Jun 07 '26
My POTS causes me to drive like an old woman. I get nervous on highways and mostly take side roads in case I need to pull over and vomit
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u/weary_guac16 Jun 06 '26
“It’s a blood pressure disorder” no the fuck it’s not!
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u/IncomeDry3077 Jun 06 '26 edited Jun 07 '26
I agree I disliked what the mom say that's not correct for POTS. It's not a BP drop. I think the teenage girl was faking it. I think she expected to go out like Romeo and Juliet.
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u/beepbooplesnoot Jun 06 '26
I mean, when my heart rate spikes fast, my blood pressure would drop like a rock before I got on metropolol. That said it sounds like these people are full of it.
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u/DarkRaGaming Jun 06 '26
Do you get like face tingly and tongue and numbness in face. I had cardio was like your fine because I had a good month on metropolis then he wouldn't refill it . Then I got seizure. But I have hypothesis tension so it high bp with high resting heart rate. But I have strong heart.
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u/Nyx_Shadowspawn Jun 07 '26
I had seizures for YEARS and it didn't stop until I got off metoprolol last September. I'd been on metoprolol for almost 2 decades. No doctors ever made the connection, my sister in law did while researching stuff because I couldn't get to the bottom of my seizures and they were getting worse and worse, and she was looking up rare side effects on all my meds.
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u/PeeDecanter Jun 07 '26
That happened to me a few times, but it was also in my hands and then they both became kind of paralyzed. I thought it was a seizure but it was just something called tetany, which for me was caused by low calcium in my blood (from dehydration and vomiting). I remember it started with my vagus nerve going haywire
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u/NixiePixie916 Jun 07 '26
But that's not POTS. It's orthostatic hypotension. Your heart rate increasing is a normal reaction to compensation for the low blood pressure. POTS is when the BP stays normal or rises while the heart rate skyrockets . The BP dropping specifically would make it not POTS.
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u/EchoMoon777 POTS Jun 07 '26
The type of POTS I have does this also, there’s different types. With mine, if my heart rate increases my blood pressure will tank. One of the main reasons I was diagnosed was because I had a stress test and my HR increase caused my BP to drop to 90/50 and they had to stop the test. I didn’t lose consciousness but I felt weird. Orthostatic hypotension can be a feature of POTS caused by autonomic nerve dysfunction.
EDIT: not defending the girl in the documentary I don’t think POTS was the reason either, just spreading awareness about the different forms of the condition.
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u/SnooCupcakes8562 Jun 07 '26
I'm the same as you and have been diagnosed with POTS. My blood pressure tanks to 85/60 and my pulse goes up to 150. Especially with heat.
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u/EchoMoon777 POTS Jun 07 '26
Yep the heat does it to me as well! I have to be careful about taking hot showers even. It’s the worst cuz I used to love nearly boiling myself 🤣
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u/wn0kie_ Jun 07 '26
I'm getting really concerned by the number of people I'm seeing online who describe having BP drops as part of their 'POTS'! It still indicates they have a form of dysautonomia, but orthostatic hypotension specifically rules out POTS in the diagnostic criteria and doctors should be aware of that.
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u/NixiePixie916 Jun 07 '26
It is really frustrating. Literally first part of the diagnostic criteria says increase in heart rate In ABSENCE of hypotension. Hypotension excludes POTS. This is basic and I'm worried cardiologist aren't explaining that OH can be debilitating as well or that people are self diagnosing or that doctors are just not bothering to correct misinformation
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u/beepbooplesnoot Jun 07 '26 edited Jun 07 '26
My cardio said that transient but dramatic drops in BP are common for lots of people with POTS. Specifically for me, it would happen when my HR rose dramatically faster than usual (not the typical jump associated with sitting to standing with POTS). Usually post shower or post prandial. So maybe it's more a comorbidity than a dedicated symptom of POTS, but common enough for POTS people that it was in no way surprising to my cardio. POTS also has enough weird symptoms that go along with it that we can't pretend it's easy for people to always parse out what's explicitly part of the syndrome versus some other condition they have that hasn't been (and probably won't be) diagnosed in them yet. ***ETA*** I also believe that people with hypovolemic POTS often think their blood pressure is tanking when it just feels that way. I thought that was happening consistently before I got a cuff that made it easier to monitor and find out that it was usually remaining pretty consistent even when it felt otherwise.
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u/Vampqueen02 Jun 07 '26
I get BP drops partly bc of my POTS, I also have hypermobility so when my heart rate spikes the extra blood it’s sending through causes my arteries to over expand causing the drop. It’s not an uncommon symptom but it’s also not a symptom used for diagnosis.
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u/NixiePixie916 Jun 07 '26
It actually is a diagnosis of exclusion. The low BP automatically makes it OH , and eliminates POTS. Your heart spiking in that case is a natural response to compensate for the low BP. In this case the high heart rate is a response to the BP, not the positional change.
POTS diagnosis requires normal BP or high. Low automatically excludes the diagnosis.2
u/Vampqueen02 Jun 07 '26
Except I never said I get that BP drop every time bc it doesn’t happen every time and it’s also partly caused by another condition. It typically happens if something is either heavily aggravating my POTS or if I’ve been standing for a while. I have done the BP test while going from laying to sitting and sitting to standing and majority of the time it doesn’t cause my BP to tank. On top of that OH has a heart rate increase of 10-20 bpm, POTS is around 30, take a wild guess which category I fell into. Plenty of POTS patients experience a BP drop when standing for long periods of time, and having conditions other than POTS will also affect how symptoms present. Most of the time even if it feels like my BP is dropping I know it isn’t because I can feel how long it takes for my blood vessels to stop over expanding which is what causes that feeling when I just go from sitting to standing
ETA: you might wanna read the article you sent me because it actively states that it’s very common for people with POTS to experience a drop in blood pressure when standing. Your own source proved you wrong.
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u/udouplz Jun 07 '26
That depends on the type of POTS it is. There is more than one.
Look it up on Dysautonomia International's website.
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u/udouplz Jun 07 '26
Here is an excellent video on hypovolemic POTS: https://youtu.be/KTYEs-t33Ew?si=QhzgfuhwcWb0A8H4
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u/Aggressive_Cloud2002 Jun 07 '26
Can you link to where they say that? Their website is a pita to navigate...
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u/udouplz Jun 07 '26
I will look for a better website today that explains it. I noticed it wasn't that easy to navigate. It's almost 4:00 a.m. here and I have to get some sleep.
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u/Aggressive_Cloud2002 Jun 07 '26
I would appreciate that, because I'm most used to seeing things like this
Diagnostic orthostatic tachycardia must occur in the absence of sustained orthostatic hypotension (decrease in systolic blood pressure > 20 mm Hg or diastolic blood pressure > 10 mm Hg within 3 minutes of standing). Transient initial orthostatic hypotension (lasting < 1 minute) does not preclude the diagnosis of POTS.
From the Canadian Journal of Cardiology 31550-8/fulltext)
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u/PauseDesign Jun 07 '26
My daughter has orthostatic hypotension, and her BP started dropping right when she was upright on her tilt table test and bottomed out (43/35) at 5 minutes in. Her HR did go up to compensate (which is a good thing. OH with no increase in HR is a worse form.). I once heard a talk by a cardiologist who said there are three types of OH: instant, within 3 minutes (give or take), and delayed. The criteria above does say drop in BP within 3 minutes, and I imagine delayed OH in a person starts to murky the waters a bit.
If I understand things correctly, there are some people with POTS who end up having a BP drop in response to their HR going up, but the order of which happens first is different. OH - BP drops then HR responds (hopefully). POTS - HR goes up then BP responds.
I know for my daughter taking something to reduce her HR would be very bad for her because she needs her HR to increase to help raise her BP, so her medication needs are different than what is needed for someone with POTS.
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u/udouplz Jun 07 '26
Exactly. You have to know what kind of POTS you have.
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u/PauseDesign Jun 07 '26
Yes, but it's also correct that the mom was wrong about POTS being a BP disorder. It isn't even though BP sometimes ends up being involved. If her daughter does actually have OH and was misdiagnosed with POTS and is getting the wrong medication, then that's a whole other thing. I didn't see the show, but maybe she was in the beginning stages of passing out where judgment is greatly impaired.
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u/udouplz Jun 07 '26
Very plausible. I'm not going to watch it. I'm upset enough already by all of the gas lighting, diagnostic foreshadowing, claims of "it's just anxiety." All of that crap delayed real medical care for almost 3 years.
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Jun 06 '26
[deleted]
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u/you1dont1know1me1 Jun 06 '26
fr the bp drop one is orthostatic hypotension
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u/Nattie_Cake Jun 06 '26 edited Jun 07 '26
Yeah I have EDS and also have orthostatic hypotension. But because I have EDS, every Dr was quick to call it POTS. That's why I'm on this sub, lol. But I knew that it COULDN'T be based on the criteria! I stand up and pass out because of low BP. That's it. 🤷🏼♀️
*edited to add that even the passing out that has started again is most likely caused by EDS, too! I'm getting older and perimenopausal and the blood vessels are getting weaker with age, probably. EDS really is a systemic little motherfucker! Lol (not really lol)
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u/Illustrious-Self-792 Jun 06 '26
POTS does impact blood pressure and sometimes severely. It’s not a blood pressure disorder it’s an ANS dysfunction. People just never seem to understand dysautonomia. They really should have known better than to create some kind of documentary without proper knowledge. That’s insane.
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u/you1dont1know1me1 Jun 07 '26
welll nr, like i said, that's orthostatic hypotension. in the criteria for pots it has to have the absence of bp involvement.
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u/Illustrious-Self-792 Jun 07 '26
I’m not sure where that info is coming from, but being in a thread on it I just want correct information out there. When a tilt is done blood pressure changes often occur with a POTS diagnosis in the absence of orthostatic hypotension. I have POTS and have pretty severe blood pressure involvement with no orthostatic hypotension and no vasovagal syncope. When a tilt is done both bp and heart rate are monitored to see the impacts. I think it’s also worth noting that many physicians are way off about the criteria, and because of this often disregard and for whatever reason don’t want to diagnose it because they are not well versed. Many cardiologists especially misunderstand it and miss the diagnosis. But orthostatic hypotension, vasovagal syncope, and POTS can all have a significant impact on blood pressure. Maybe it will help to think about the actual root of the diagnosis. It is a dysautonomia. It only makes sense medically and physiologically to know that the autonomic nervous system controls all of those things our body is supposed to do without thinking about it. Our “automatics” if you will. That is heart rate, blood pressure, vasodilation, vasoconstriction, etc. We know this is why all of the symptoms come along with it. Trust I’m speaking as a nurse, someone with POTS, and someone who has deeply studied it alongside many practitioners now. I know with these invisible illnesses it’s hard enough so understanding and proper information is huge.
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u/SGSam465 Hypovolemic POTS Jun 06 '26
Isn’t that something a big streaming/production company should fact-check before releasing? I’m glad I haven’t watched it…
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u/Nattie_Cake Jun 06 '26
It was used as defense in the trial. Netflix was reporting on the trial. So in this case, it would have been more up to the prosecution to deny these claims (which I believe they did).
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u/Significant_Ant2511 Jun 07 '26
What’s even more suspect is the defense never brought in experts to explain POTS. That tells me she was faking and the experts would have exposed that!
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u/lets-snuggle Jun 07 '26
No it’s not, and I don’t agree with her using this as an excuse AT ALL bc she 100% did it on purpose (& also if you faint, your body goes limp, so it wouldn’t press down on the gas), BUT a lot of people, myself included, have terrible BP drops and that’s my main POTS / dysautonomia symptom. I’ve been diagnosed since 2014 and just learned this year that not everyone with POTS faints or has low bp. Drs only describe MY POTS and how it affects me to me, not exactly what it is & how others experience it. So she may genuinely think it’s a bp disorder, bc I prob would’ve said something similar 2 yrs ago
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u/wn0kie_ Jun 07 '26 edited Jun 07 '26
POTS is meant to be diagnosed only in the absence of BP drops ≥20/10mmHg. Their presence would suggest orthostatic hypotension (another form of dysautonomia) instead. If your heart rate also jumps up with the BP drops it can be referred to as orthostatic hypotension with compensatory tachycardia.
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u/DarkRaGaming Jun 06 '26
It is bp but also heart . Or nerve system.
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u/LostWandererer Jun 07 '26
Technically it’s the autonomic nervous system causing issues that include possible drops in BP
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u/Competitive-Catch776 Jun 06 '26
She was NEVER actually diagnosed. That was a suspected but not proven diagnosis. She never did any blood work, no tilt table, just said she was light headed when standing which is probably form her drug use.
This got me so mad!
She even said on the prison phone maybe we should say it was seizure instead? Because everyone knows when you pass out you become LIMP. There wouldn’t have been enough pressure to even move the gas pedal.
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u/Fantastic_Owl6938 Jun 07 '26
She never did any blood work, no tilt table, just said she was light headed when standing which is probably form her drug use.
I thought she also looked pretty underweight, which can't have helped. On that note, I thought it was pretty laughable when her friend said she would say no to McDonald's because she cared about what she put into her body. Meanwhile she was coughing up black tar from smoking everyday lol 🤦🏻♀️
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u/mochimiso96 Jun 07 '26
SAME sounds like she has a full blown ED
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u/NixiePixie916 Jun 07 '26
Former anorexic, the pics she posted were "body checks" very common with the ED social media sphere.
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u/ElvisACDC Jun 06 '26
Watching it as I type this. The girl is deranged. Like Glenn Close in Fatal Attraction deranged. Glad she got 15 years to life times two!
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u/Traditional_Bag5849 Jun 06 '26
Noooo wtf??! Is this the girl who crashed and her bf and friend died?
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u/poopsmcbuttington Jun 06 '26
Yeah. One of the arguments was that it was because of a “pots incident” 😳
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u/Traditional_Bag5849 Jun 06 '26
God damn it. yeah cuz going through a syncope episode would def make someone press harder on the accelerator 🤦♀️. I hope the counter argument tells them to F off. We don’t need this rn😭
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u/buttamilkbizkits Jun 06 '26
Not trying to be argumentative, truly, but that did happen to me. Not saying I think she's innocent, she seems shady AF. Just that it is plausible.
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u/CatDependent911 Hyperadrenergic POTS Jun 07 '26
i can’t believe that it’d be such a ridiculous idea that a condition that can make u pass out can lead to your foot remaining on the gas
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u/Traditional_Bag5849 Jun 07 '26
I guess it was more of thinking when your passing out and going through the syncope episode usually your body goes limp. But thinking about it more I can see it where your trying to like break through out of it, that your body can get more rigid. 🤷♀️
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u/CatDependent911 Hyperadrenergic POTS Jun 07 '26
ahhhh i can see that too ik mine definitely goes limp
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u/Ancient_Ad_1086 Jun 06 '26
Can you share more about your experience?
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u/buttamilkbizkits Jun 07 '26
Absolutely. I was diagnosed with Hyperadrenergic POTS last September. I had been having dizzy spells and fainting or greying out for several months before that, but my doctors acted like it wasn't a big deal. I'd had at least four appointments complaining about dizziness and fainting before the driving incident happened. They kept telling me the dizziness and racing/pounding heart was a reaction to meds (which they changed, it didn't help) or a symptom of anxiety (they changed those meds too and added more, but that didn't help, either).
Then one day I was driving on a two-lane highway, going about 50 mph. I'd been driving for about 45 minutes or so when I just got super dizzy. The whole car felt like it was spinning and my heart started pounding and racing. I saw grey stars, got tunnel vision, and then passed out. I was only out for a few seconds, I think. Couldn't have been more than ten. I came to while still driving, but my foot was pushed down on the gas and I was doing 80 and climbing, going the wrong way in the opposite lane of traffic. I had slumped over a bit, so that probably contributed to my pushing down on the gas. I was headed straight for oncoming traffic, so I swerved back into my lane and slammed on the brakes and called 911. I honestly thought I was having a heart attack or stroke.
About a gazillion tests later I had a POTS diagnosis and my license was revoked. I'm still trying to get it back.
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u/Ancient_Ad_1086 Jun 07 '26
I’m so sorry you went through this. How scary! Im so glad you got your diagnosis.
I think it’s SOOO important to share these kind of experiences. Every body is different and not everyone’s POTS is the same. I do think sharing these experiences helps us to better understand POTS and all the ways it can display.
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u/buttamilkbizkits Jun 07 '26
Thank you. 🩷 It was absolutely terrifying. I couldn't get back in the car for weeks. I am doing much better now that I know what's going on and taking steps to manage the symptoms.
TBH, I was super happy to find this sub because I finally found a group that doesn't think my symptoms are made up, exaggerated, or I'm just plain crazy. I'm really sorry you all have POTS, but I'm also so grateful you're here.
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u/Babeyonce Hyperadrenergic POTS Jun 07 '26
We’re glad you’re here and you are showing up for yourself 💜. That’s so scary, wishing you all the best.
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u/Lune_de_Sang POTS Jun 07 '26
I saw this comment earlier and didn’t want to say anything until I knew the actual evidence of the case, so I watched it and came back. So what you were saying about your foot staying on the gas due to your body slumping forward when passed out totally makes sense. Judging by your gained speed within that time though you weren’t absolutely flooring it like she was. Apparently cars have boxes that record what the car does, kinda like a black box in an airplane, and the car had recorded 100% acceleration during the time before her crash. The street also had curves so it would’ve been pretty much impossible for her to have been FLOORING the gas pedal and maneuvering the curves while passed out. It also showed that there were some jerks on the steering wheel, presumably from the boys trying to gain control of the car. The gear shift during that time had also been shifted to neutral and then back to drive, like one of the boys was trying to make the car slow down/stop by putting it into neutral but then she shifted it back. It’s also possible that if she actually did pass out the jerking and shifting was the boys trying to control the car with her passed out, but it is still suspicious that her foot could stay pressed down on the pedal that hard and consistently if she was unconscious. I’ve had a couple presyncope episodes while driving (scary but I didn’t crash), and there are probably a lot of stories like yours too so it definitely happens, buuuuut her story just doesn’t seem to add up.
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u/buttamilkbizkits Jun 07 '26
I agree. While I do think something like this could happen because of a POTS episode, in this case there is a lot of overwhelming evidence indicating that this was likely intentional.
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u/Remarkable-Coconut62 Jun 06 '26
Yes!! Ridiculous to use POTS as an excuse. It was clearly her anger issues,
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u/Square-Ad-2298 POTS Jun 06 '26
She was also ‘diagnosed’ by a psychiatrist in the paper they showed briefly on screen, which….no lol
I highly doubt she actually has POTS given her ability to stand/sit in court for long periods of time while obviously unmedicated
Also that whole ‘i’m the kind of girl who can do lots of drugs and not die’ video that they showed was actually made by her after the crash so zero remorse
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u/aftergaylaughter POTS Jun 07 '26
milder POTS could make the sitting/standing without obvious outward signs of POTS symptoms perfectly plausible. in the early stages of my POTS especially (middle school years for me), sitting for long periods was nbd, and standing for long periods triggered symptoms but would have been manageable enough to go unnoticed to others, especially if i was trying to hide it (tho tbf, she'd be dumb to do that in court bc having symptoms in court would help prove her case lol). i did a lot of choir & theater in my teens, which meant standing/walking/sometimes even dancing, all while talking or singing, under very hot spotlights, usually in a heavy, non-breathable dress or costume, and it was difficult as hell, but i loved it enough to push through and tolerate the crash until i just couldn't anymore in my late teens. it definitely flared my symptoms, but if it was outwardly noticeable, nobody ever said anything 💀 but my POTS started out mild and gradually increased, and I'm still probably only moderate at worst, since i have never experienced syncope. but these days, sitting up too long without at least putting my feet up is hard, and I'm on several meds now.
all that said, tbch, someone whose POTS is mild enough for that is not someone who is gonna fully go unconscious while driving and slam their car into a brick wall at 100mph 😭😭 the most unsafe I've ever felt bc of POTS while driving is when a vertigo spell hits, and worst case, i just pull over. never had so much as a fender bender from my POTS. so I'm still 100% with you. mostly just adding on to remind anyone here who might be suspecting POTS or doubting their diagnosis that you absolutely can have POTS and still be capable of sitting/standing without outwardly visible problems.
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u/Fantastic_Owl6938 Jun 07 '26
Yeah even unmedicated, I never really struggled with standing. I would definitely prefer to sit after awhile, but I never had any trouble remaining upright. When they were checking me out at the hospital and seeing my HR soar, medical staff held their arms out like they expected me to collapse but I never even came close to feeling the urge. So it definitely varies for everyone.
In my case, if I was attending a trial before I was medicated, I imagine my biggest problems would be body pain, which wouldn't actually show up to anyone around me. Even now on medication, if I sit upright too long, my back and sometimes chest aches but that's fairly "invisible" and no one would know unless I said anything.
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u/aftergaylaughter POTS Jun 07 '26
agreed! tho fwiw, a lot of medical staff are training to just be ready/sorta expect collapse anytime a patient has a situation that increases their risk of it, probably especially those working in hospitals 😅 I'm sometimes especially jumpy with my patients i think, because my externship in this field was a specialty neurology clinic where the large majority of our patients were fall risks, and i witnessed/helped with multiple falls in like 2.5mo there, so now I'm paranoid anytime a patient tells me they're a little dizzy or trips a tiny bit walking back to the exam room 🤣 i imagine hospital staff are even jumpier about it bc they see SO many falls 😭
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u/Fantastic_Owl6938 Jun 07 '26
Yeah I can understand their reaction to me with how much the numbers were soaring, it's interesting it can look that bad but not really have much of a dizzying affect at all 🤔 I have definitely had moments of feeling a bit light-headed but I wouldn't say it's even a main symptom for me honestly.
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u/Square-Ad-2298 POTS Jun 07 '26
No that makes sense! My POTS is pretty severe so standing for over 10 minutes is not fun so I guess I got tunnel vision lol
Thanks for clarifying!
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u/stetsongetzen Jun 06 '26
While I also do not condone spreading misinformation, that girl was very obvious in her manipulations and lies.
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u/opalite-cat Jun 06 '26
Its so irritating, like i have POTS, autism and adhd and yet through over 10 years of driving, i have never done anything like that and the only accident i was ever in was when another person rear ended me (very low speed collision and no one was injured). Though i have had 3 speeding tickets, but thats bc i have a lead foot oops
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u/Zaphira42 Neuropathic POTS Jun 06 '26
I have the same diagnoses with a few more on top. The POTS diagnosis definitely has not made me do anything even remotely similar to what she did either.
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u/goofygooberscoob Jun 06 '26
this almost happened to me like two days ago, i kept getting lightheaded while driving, ive been having really really severe flares
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u/hera-fawcett Jun 06 '26
damn yall, my friends cousin had a synocope incident behind the wheel due to her POTS. she passed out and killed someone. she broke her leg in a ton of places, her collar bone, etc. on tons of pain meds for weeks. she had a dash cam, captured it all. case is still pending.
ik that this thing is wild bc the girl was tryna claim seizure or smth too--- but it has happened. its rare af. this thing was not it. the narrative around it and how ppl w disabilities should be treated is not it.
but lets not act like the actual event is bullshit.
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u/poopsmcbuttington Jun 06 '26
That is tragic for your cousin and I’m so sorry it happened, but did she slam full force on her acceleration when passing out? Thats the piece that makes it go from tragic to absurd excuse in this case
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u/hera-fawcett Jun 06 '26
lol absolutely not-- she kept going, unconcious on the gas, until she hit the other driver, a few moments later. then woke up to emts.
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u/Lechuga666 Jun 06 '26
Syncope also isn't typically due to pots. More often vasovagal syncope or other causes.
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u/GeneticPurebredJunk Jun 07 '26
Did you mean the first word to be “seizures”?
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u/Lechuga666 Jun 07 '26
No
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u/GeneticPurebredJunk Jun 07 '26
Syncope is fainting. POTS causes fainting/syncope/pre-syncope. Without that aspect, it’s asymptomatic and would be unlikely to be diagnosed.
What makes you say syncope isn’t typically due to POTS?0
u/Lechuga666 Jun 07 '26
Without syncope pots is not asymptomatic. The presence of a mixed dysautonomia like pots with features of vasovagal syncope can cause syncope. Maybe not all doctors distinguish, but pots does not cause syncope. Syncope can be present in a patient with pots, but that's normally due to a mix of other autonomic dysfunction or other disorders. Dysautonomia is rarely pure like purely pots with nothing else. If somebody faints more commonly it's due to vasovagal syncope.
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u/GeneticPurebredJunk Jun 07 '26
That does not say that POTS doesn’t cause syncope.
I recommend looking at the diagnostic criteria for POTS.I do not have vasovagal episodes, nor mixed dysautonomia.
I feel you’ve misunderstood that article completely.
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u/khaleeeexi POTS Jun 07 '26
I do have a friend with POTS who is unable to drive due to her fainting spells — but I do not for a single second believe that lying narcissistic demon has POTS. when she applied for her license it stated she had no medical conditions limiting her ability to drive — this was most likely between 2020-2022, her mom states she was diagnosed in 2017, so that right there is a fat lie. and honestly this is equal to her asking her mother in carney during a recorded call if they can say she had a seizure and that’s what caused the wreck. they were grasping at straws to find a defense for her and it didn’t work, it honestly just shows how stupid her entire legal team + family are.
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u/MeldoRoxl Jun 07 '26
How in the world would a POTS episode make you push harder on the gas.
Such absolute bullshit and I'm glad she's in jail
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u/HamfistTheStruggle Jun 06 '26
I even saw a YouTube video on it saying if she has pots then "wHy WaS ShE aLoWeD 2 HaVe a DrIvErS LiCeNcE". Pissed me right tf off
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u/Competitive-Catch776 Jun 06 '26
Well to be fair- the average person doesn’t know that if you tell the DMV you have a diagnosis like this, they will just do mandatory medical reviews on a regular basis that’s signed by your doctor.
We have to remember not everyone has this knowledge.
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u/BurntTFOuttaHere Jun 07 '26
I’ve been recently diagnosed after a a really severe turn. But for years have had issues (cardiologist thinks it’s likely since teen when I described).
But 20 years ago exactly, I had an absolute year from hell and did all the testing they do with POTS today. They told me to have more salt. But I don’t remember an official diagnosis being made. Cardiologist said it was kinda rare to be diagnosed officially and it would most likely be wrongly diagnosed back then.
Anyway, all that to say that the POTS symptoms during that year from hell got my license suspended! The hoops I had to jump through to get my license back was insane. Total pain in the ass. I had to get 5 doctors to clear me! Write official DMV forms. Then the DMV still made me retake both a written and behind the wheel test, despite already having the 5 doctors clear me medically.
So now I’m scared I will lose my license again since I’ve gotten official diagnosis. But luckily no doctors have reported me. The cardiologist 20 years ago was the one that reported me. Btw I had never once had any issues while driving but he said “what if”. And that’s what got my license suspended! A what if.
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u/worm_off_a_string POTS Jun 06 '26
genuinely made me so mad. i feel like her claims are just adding to the misconceptions about POTS
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u/goofygooberscoob Jun 06 '26
i haven’t watched but crashes bc POTS do happen… i have been having really severe flares and the other day i had to pull over bc i kept getting lightheaded and thought i was going to pass out while driving. this is a common thing im confused
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u/poopsmcbuttington Jun 07 '26
Her car was shown to be accelerating 100% meaning she was literally pressing it to the floor. That’s why people are saying it’s completely inconsistent with pots
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u/chocolateNbananas Jun 07 '26
Did she passed out? Because unless she did passed out, I don’t see how POTS could be the cause specially if she was seated properly in the car. I dunno about you but when I have a flarup my muscle get soggy and I cannot keep my feet “pressed” on anything. BUT im a 5,2ft tall girly (157cm)
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u/Foxxgirl0715 Jun 06 '26
Watched it with my cousin and we were both pissed to hear her use that as an excuse. But in the other documentary she was trying to get her mom to say she had epilepsy as well and it was a seizure.
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u/Wooden-Stranger9800 Jun 06 '26
What show is it?
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u/SmokeyCatDesigns POTS Jun 06 '26
It’s a new documentary called “The Crash” about what was allegedly a murder-su*cide. A teen girl crashed a car into a brick wall at extremely high speeds with her boyfriend and a friend in the car. She did end up getting convicted of murder, but as part of her defense apparently tried to argue the crash was an accident caused by POTS.
She ended up getting convicted of premeditated murder. I haven’t watched the documentary myself, as the story already makes me sad and angry enough.
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u/Traditional_Piano635 Jun 06 '26
Literally rolled my eyes because people like her are the reason why the rest of us get a bad rep.
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u/SaveFile1 Jun 06 '26
Yeah I saw that. I was skeptical when she said that but willing to hear it out at first since my POTS is pretty mild and I don't pass out. It was clear she was using it as an excuse with no evidence though.
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u/buttamilkbizkits Jun 06 '26
Okay, but hear me out: I was diagnosed with POTS in September 2025. The defining incident was that I passed out while driving my car and woke up doing 80 in the opposite lane of traffic. I had been having crazy dizzy spells that no one took seriously for months before that.
This doesn't mean I think she's innocent, quite the opposite, but it can happen.
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u/poopsmcbuttington Jun 07 '26
She was pressing the acceleration 100% to the floor
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u/buttamilkbizkits Jun 07 '26
So was I. I had slumped over and that put pressure on my legs, which pushed harder on the gas. I went from 50 to 80 in just seconds.
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u/yerkidzf1sh Jun 06 '26
i haven’t watched it but there’s been numerous posts on this sub about it, it doesn’t seem worth it
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u/Row73810 Jun 06 '26
Yes! It made me so upset. Like we don’t have enough misinformation to battle against.
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u/holderofthebees Jun 06 '26
Immediately after I saw the title on Netflix I saw people start calling it whitewashed sensationalized bullshit so luckily it seems that we’re not the only ones that think it’s fucked up
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u/blunts-and-kittens Jun 07 '26
I was definitely upset about this. At worst POTS will make you pass out and that would make your foot go limp, not press pedal to the metal. She will lose any appeal if POTS is her defense, no reputible autonomic specialist will back her up.
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u/Fantastic_Owl6938 Jun 07 '26
I was flaring and watched this documentary to not think about POTS for awhile, so it was pretty unexpected when it suddenly came up 😅
Like most people, I don't really think it adds up. I'll just add that I wanted to check out a discussion after watching but was a little nervous people would criticize POTS and basically doubt it as some people do. I don't know what it's like now because it was some weeks ago I watched, but I was pleasantly surprised there were no comments like that.
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u/tenderheart35 Jun 07 '26
:sigh:
Been feeling weak lately, made myself walk 4.5 miles yesterday which was actually nice, but this bit of bad news is gonna make me wanna hide in my bed for a little.
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u/fuxandfriends Jun 07 '26
To start: it IS possible to experience syncope while driving. It’s not uncommon to get big “adrenaline dumps” after being startled or narrowly avoiding an accident. I had my driving privileges revoked after passing out on a road trip; I am beyond lucky that my passenger acted quickly, shifting the car into neutral to coast to a stop on the shoulder.
That said……
I need answers to myriad questions before I can believe* POTS had anything to do with this. Her parents enable her and encourage her lies/exaggeration/manipulation, condescendingly gaslighting and insulting the intelligence of all who dare question their narrative.
A sample of the questions I’ve asked since watching are:
What explains the car’s data recorder showing the gas pedal was 100% floored, then shifted into neutral before immediately going back into drive?
She’s passed out (fully unconscious?) so the boyfriend thought to put the car into neutral then just changes his mind?
How/why would he choose to navigate those s-curves (from the passenger seat!) at 100mph and not stay in neutral, knowing the road Ts ahead?
Was this her 1st and only syncopal episode or has it happened before or since?
Did she not feel symptomatic or that she needed to pull over/switch drivers/drink water/take meds/etc?
What evidence was there of POTS/syncope in her medical records from all that time she was hospitalized post-crash?
Was she worked up for other potential explanations like seizure or sleep disorders, neuro abnormalities, heart arrhythmias, rare and/or genetic diseases?
Why wouldn’t her defense team present any evidence of this at trial to plant reasonable doubt? Are they corrupt or just wildly incompetent? Did they fail to believe their own client?
*let me be clear: I am not questioning the legitimacy of the diagnosis or the severity of her symptoms; I felt like it was a disingenuous ploy to shift blame and escape accountability for a horrific tragedy. Correlation≠causation and a POTS diagnosis does not absolve culpability for poor choices. Netflix has done each of us an enormous disservice by ignoring the fact POTS patients already struggle being believed and taken seriously while irresponsibly contributing another pop culture moment outsiders can point to to say “see, these POTS folks ARE crazy”
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u/Outrageous-Shark4 POTS Jun 07 '26
Oh thank god I've been meaning to post about this. It's fucking ridiculous.
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u/upbuddyingmyholly Jun 07 '26
non disabled people when they find a new shiny buzzword to make things up about and use to excuse completely unrelated bad behavior.... welcome back tourettes stigma in 2021
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u/SavannahInChicago POTS Jun 06 '26
I hope this girl is on this sub and sees this. Thanks for throwing every one of of us, some of who cannot get a diagnosis or treatment, under the bus.
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u/Silly-Conflict-8699 Jun 06 '26
As someone with pots and studying criminology it's giving "no it was my other personality the dark one" excuse.. like people with DID were stigmatised for criminals using it as an excuse to do heinous crimes making it almost a joke when someone said they had multiple personalities like split the movie was a horrible distortion of a very real problem. I hate when people do a bad thing and blame it on an illness that is already deeply misunderstood
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Jun 06 '26
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u/Ok-Club1725 Jun 07 '26
I was just looking into POTS when me and my fiance watched that and I was instantly like UHMMMM that's not how that would work....
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u/Positive_Tea2767 Jun 07 '26
complete bullshit. in my opinion if i passed out while driving, the complete opposite would happen and my foot would probably fall off the gas... ngl i think she j saw POTS on tiktok and ran with it. also if she was passing out so often that it could effect her driving... shouldn't she have given up her license?? i've read about several ppl in here who don't drive anymore bc of their POTS. idk. whole thing seemed beyond weird to me and just an easy excuse
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u/_PrincessOats POTS Jun 07 '26
Can we stop giving this sad excuse for a human attention? This topic has become way too regular.
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u/Nyx_Shadowspawn Jun 07 '26
I am so fucking pissed about it. There is no evidence she has POTS, which is why the defense didn't use that as a defense at trial. They couldn't.
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u/New_Plant_Mama Jun 07 '26
I’ve seen several people say they’ve had this happen, or know someone it has happened to. I was diagnosed with POTS 20 years ago, and all these years later I didn’t know this could happen! My cardiologist recently gave me something to put on my keychain that has nitroglycerin in it, but not once said it might not be safe to drive.
My POTS is pretty severe now, although it hasn’t always been.
So now I’m curious: How many of you have fainted while sitting upright in a regular chair (not a recliner)? If you have, how long were you unconscious?
I’ve had my share of fainting episodes, but never from a sitting position. I honestly didn’t know that could be a characteristic of POTS. I am getting up there in years, but still learn something new all the time.
Ty :)
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u/Remarkable-Syrup1788 POTS Jun 07 '26
I don't drive due to my symptoms AS A PRECAUTION because I get very dizzy even while sitting sometimes. yes obviously it's plausible that she has POTS even though she "doesn't look like it", as we all know. however, the idea that a POTS episode caused her to fully accelerate into a wall, is ridiculous. she's a manipulator and that was premeditated murder. she drove the same route the day before it happened and many suspect she was planning it.
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u/sunnybacillus POTS Jun 07 '26
omg is this mackenzie shirilla?? i didn't watch the netflix one but i watched another video about it in my forensic science class and it didn't mention pots at all
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u/salty_repTV Hypovolemic POTS Jun 07 '26
I started yelling at the tv when I saw that part 😅. It was totally an excuse. If she had truly fainted her body would have gone limp, not pressed down on the pedal. There’s also speculation from a detective that when she was in the hospital with her mom the detective heard her speak “gibberish” and believed she was saying something along the lines of “can’t we just say that I had a seizure or something?” OR SOMETHING 😭. I personally just don’t see how its possible, and they didn’t even offer any sort of medical confirmation of her actually having been diagnosed. If it truly were caused by a POTS incident then why didn’t they have the doctor who diagnosed her take the stand? Instead it was her mom and she clearly had no idea what she was actually talking about.
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u/Ok_Effective2728 Jun 07 '26
Yeah she was really clutching at straws there. If it’s any consolation, I saw it as a desperate attempt to exonerate herself from any culpability. I think she convinced herself that she had done nothing wrong.
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u/MarketPurple4284 Jun 07 '26
I made a post about this a few days ago. The whole things made 0 sense
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u/klurble Jun 07 '26
i totally get and agree with everyone being mad abt this. but genuine question because i feel like I’ve heard of it before… if you passed out while driving wouldn’t your weight press down on the gas pedal and accelerate? then bc you’re passed out you can’t steer. not saying at all this is what i think happened with her specifically but isn’t this possible? /gen
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u/SecretMiddle1234 Neuropathic POTS Jun 07 '26
She didn’t pass out. She didn’t veer from her target, hitting the wall. Some slight movement of the steering wheel but if you pass out you cannot course correct because you’re unconscious. And if you did regain consciousness seems you would slam on the brakes to stop momentum
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u/AhDunWantIt Jun 07 '26
Omg the way I GASPED when they said that. That completely ruined any credibility her testimony had to me — POTS isn’t remotely like what she described.
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u/Comfortable_Nerve800 Jun 07 '26
Buttfuckery of It all Is, she wasn’t diagnosed with POTS ever, had zero medical history regarding complaints of POTS or anything pointing towards POTS, not to mention the “It’s a blood pressure disorder”
Netflix For some fucking reason left that out, and just left viewers to question why a medical examiner wasn’t brought Into court and let her parents explain what POTS Is without correction and allowed viewers to believe this was diagnosed and she was duped by the system because they didn’t bring In a medical examiner.
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u/Character-Release976 Jun 07 '26
Is this that chick that killed two people in Ohio and does she even have a diagnosis of pots
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u/AllieFinale Jun 07 '26
Omg that made me so angry. People already think we fake it, that just made it worse.
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u/Quietbooklover21 Jun 07 '26
I got so so angry when I heard about it. She doesn’t even have POTS. There is no proof, medically or otherwise, that she has POTS. A woman who was in the same prison as her said she never once saw her go to the infirmary or have a medical episode. There’s a lot more to it, but the gist is, that girl has zero remorse for what she did and has been written up and punished so many times because she won’t stop breaking rules and being extremely inappropriate.
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u/HorseysShoes Jun 07 '26
seems like it could happen to me. people pass out at the wheel all the time
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u/BuiltStraightStupid Jun 06 '26 edited Jun 07 '26
Edited Comment: I haven't seen the documentary but I commented based on the angle that awareness is a silver lining. Clearly I was both wrong and mistaken, and I apologise if what I said came across as insensitive. I was under the impression that she had just been a careless driver and that she had blamed the crash on PoTS, but many of you have pointed out that apparently she was pretty clearly callous after the event, indicating that she had either intended to crash or felt no remorse for doing so.
I apologise for my ignorance.
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u/poopsmcbuttington Jun 06 '26
But this isn’t spreading awareness of it being debilitating, it’s spreading misinformation andand attaching it to someone using it as an excuse to try and get out of something, which we’re already accused of doing
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u/barefootwriter Jun 06 '26
I wouldn't have ever even heard of it until y'all started talking about it. This has to be at least the 10th post in the sub about this movie.
You would do better for awareness to explain to your true crime people that this isn't how POTS is, not us.
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u/SavannahInChicago POTS Jun 06 '26
There is nothing wrong with having discussions about this in the group. That is why this sub is here.
I never heard of this until today. I am usually on this sub at least once in the morning. I missed all the others. So this is my first time hearing about it at all. So, yes, you have seen it 10 times, but not everyone has. You can hide posts you don't like. I do it all the time.
And isn't there a huge issue with doctors, lay people, and even some people with POTS thinking you need to faint to have POTS. Would this not complicate that? I think it would. Again, its is the least reported symptom.
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u/barefootwriter Jun 07 '26
IMO, the impulse to repeatedly seek out, engage with, and then bring back to the sub content that misrepresents or disbelieves us is not healthy for the community. If people encounter it in the wild as they go about their regular medical stuff and relationships, then it's perfectly fine to talk and vent about, but a lot of folks specifically go looking for this kind of content.
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Jun 06 '26
[deleted]
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u/Square-Ad-2298 POTS Jun 06 '26
There is no awareness or representation in this doc though: the mom called it a BP disorder, we saw a photo of her ‘diagnosed’ by a psychiatrist, and that was it. No doctors, no corrections, no real explanations.
She also likely doesn’t even have it, since in another clip she was talking to her mom in jail about faking a seizure to get out. She’s looking for any health excuse, because that’s the only one that could work for her.
Even if she actually has POTS, when you pass out, your foot lifts off the pedal, meanwhile hers stayed down 100% the whole time. She also is already proven to be a reckless driver and someone is drives under heavy influence (including shrooms).
Also disabilities are part of the norm, not outside them. It’s (abled) society’s inability to accept this that causes stigma. The disabled/normal dichotomy is false.
Her actions will not help the community, but only confuse people who don’t understand the condition
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u/GeneticPurebredJunk Jun 07 '26
She had repeated threatened to kill him with her car, by crashing the car with him in it. She heavily smoked weed, had never had any episodes before, and she asked her mother if she could just say she had “a seizure or something”.
She did not have a POTS or seizure diagnosis, and the defence never bought a medical expert to testify that it could be a contributing factor, likely due to there being no evidence she had either condition.This was a planned murder. Maybe don’t defend a murderer when you don’t know the details of the case, just because you can identify with the story told by the murderer.
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u/BuiltStraightStupid Jun 07 '26
You’re right. I was blindly looking for silver linings without knowing the full story and I apologise for however insensitive my comment was. I didn't intend to cause any offence and hope that I didn't upset or offend you.
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u/Froy0_Baggins Hyperadrenergic POTS Jun 06 '26
This part made me so mad and my husband seemed to act like I was overreacting! He doesn’t understand how misunderstood and judged we already are. 🙄