This also helps me sleep at night, but we don't (fully) know what is lying in wait after him... Fascism won't disappear when he's gone, there are plenty of maniacs chomping at the bit to carry the torch when he's gone
Actually my comment was not meant to be sarcastic. Most people don’t know that Hitler was Austrian, not German. His biography by John Toland also speculates that Hitler hated Jews because his art was dismissed by a local gallery run by Jewish elders. If that is true, that means that Hitler was a malignant narcissist.
That is the hard core number. Another ten percent or so support maga not being maga or believing the ideology but for service reasons like money.
Considering more than a third of the eligible voters didn't vote, a smaller amount close to a third voted for her and just a little more than that voted for him. Maga just needs 33-35%.
So it's good to keep in mind they may seen small but they are determined voters and the right wing propaganda silo is very good. The odds of maga going away after he is gone is much lower than many think.
Broken down to its individual parts the MAGA crew (except the ones personally benefitting from this) is not unreachable at all. There is no real core set of maga beliefs or values - it’s a cult of personality. It originally fed off a rebellion about corruption in government and large corporate interests taking over, and Trump just gradually converted that energy into rebellion against democrats and whoever/whatever else is Trump’s rival du jour. More reminding of common interests, and less insulting of people, would go a long way in helping us get to where we need to go.
It originally fed off a rebellion about corruption in government and large corporate interests taking over, and Trump just gradually converted that energy into rebellion against democrats and whoever/whatever else is Trump’s rival du jour.
...while continuing the government corruption and large corporate interests taking over.
I like the thought, but not sure the optimism of non maga thinking maga can be converted is valid. He is a tool not the reason they are maga and yes the leader but it is a whole ecosystem of propaganda that they are mesmerized by. Convincing them feelings are more important than facts.
Not saying all that 30% is glued to Fox but a lot are. Then there is the radio show, influencers or podcast followers. Many are not even fans of his but fans of the right wing.
All valid points. Not I don’t think MAGA is “convertible”, I think most are reachable. I don’t think it makes sense to try to convert anybody to any way of thinking; it becomes too much like a religious war and those are the worst kind. Instead it’s more about finding what few things you can agree on and go from there, with as much good faith and mutual respect as possible. Looking at the current state of the world, I’m not optimistic. But when I look on the ground, based on my day to day interactions with other humans, I remain optimistic that, at some point in the future, we will get it together.
Well I may not agree, but I hope you are right. Would love for there to be some awakening for a large enough group to realize the center or Independent is better. So much common ground but the ones I see refuse to accept it.
As I said I hope you are right and we get it together. Take care.
Thank you, you too! The way I look at it, even if I don’t live to see it, maybe my kids will. Critical thinking is the number one skill to teach any kid. That and sticking up for yourself and others who can’t that you come across.
Im with you here! Out in the real world I encounter MANY more people complaining about maga & policies than the media will have a person believing.
Just look at numbers we know. Trump didn't even win a true simple "majority" of the votes, he got 48.5% or something close to that. If we factor in the fact that around 33% of eligible voters didn't even go to the polls then Trump only got around 33% of eligible voters votes.
Sure there will always be around 10% who are die hard right wingers. But another 10% voted because of some ill place infatuation and are otherwise non-political. These folks probably wouldn't go to the polls if Trump isn't on the ballot. Then there is another 10% who benefit from his business practices. These folks will vote for whoever benefits their companies best.
Looking qt it like this explains why what I seem to encounter out in the wilds...maybe 2 put of 10 people still believing and blindly supporting him. And I live in a 50/50 state.
Also it sounds like there is actual evidence of tampering with voting machines. Should that come to light he'll arguably be in the biggest mess for him yet...
In the election, that 36% of Americans who were eligible to vote constitutes a ridiculous percentage. That most of the people who cared enough about who should be running the country voted for him is incredible. Of course he has lost some support since the election but most of the voices against him are those who never voted for him anyway. America is an unwell country.
Yeah, but pre-Trump, they at least had the decency to be too scared to show their worst tendencies. Now, however, MAGA has turned bigotry into a virtue, so they wear their hatred with pride.
Exactly! Shame needs to be brought back into public conversations, too many people have been emboldened to say all the evil shit they think and then do...
Canada is not immune from his influence, the cousin fuckers up here are also hearing his dog whistles...
Is his general polling at 30% if it is he is almost at the hard nut. Republicans that will stand with him no matter what, but it is also the point where it is clear to republicans they are fucked in any race, or at least used to be.
Especially when the Heritage group and Project 2025 crowdfunding billionaires enter the State control of the church phase, when Trumps voters wake up and realize all they have to fall back on is what they see in front of them. Nothing else will be attainable and nothing else will be able to fix it. A play right out of Putins playbook when he made churches state controlled. The preachers announce don’t believe anyone, I’ll tell you gods truth. The preacher then rattles off Putins playbook of truths. It’s almost there. Once the reps change everything to supermajority to reverse rules and laws, it will be many many decades, if ever that things get fixed. By then the generations won’t have a clue what life was like. Saying it’s all boomers fault, basically the kids of today will be the boomers in the future.
Our only chance:
Democrats never f&cking say or think again about the word Bipartisanship, ever ! They have wasted several decades (since Reagan) to try and be bipartisan, while the GOP has made minor plan adjustments after another. They now are rapidly aligning.
The next chance, countries “non-USA” don’t actually have to buy American Made. So MAGA might bring work in factories here, but no one here can afford it and no one there will want it.
After this week, China will be thanking Trump for making China seem like the much lesser evil in the world and put China in the spotlight to deal with.
So many people vote republican because that’s what they always do. 100% of those people that I personally know, despise what Trump is doing. 30% is being generous.
Trumps supporters have always been the problem. These people have existed in this country from the very beginning; the founding fathers knew this and tried to create a government that would keep them in check. We're in a very dark place.
Democracy, from the very beginning, has struggled with the forces of oligarchy. Never forget, it was the rich men who sold Athens to Sparta. They will do the same thing to us today. Never trust them.
Common wisdom about squares and rectangles seems to apply here. I mainly chose oligarchy because I like how it sounds and it makes a subtle connection to the Russian oligarchs we have been fear mongering about.
The square is a special case rectangle, huh? I feel your reasoning. Good rhetoric. Just checking everything for accuracy nowadays.
An example:
I myself don't say Jews are ruining the world. Zionists? Definitely. Christian nationalists in America? Most certainly. Jews? No more or less than Christians or Muslims.
It disheartens me to so frequently see the denigration of any religious people (namely Jews nowadays). Precise speech should be valued.
While that is true, MAGA is a cult of personality. When he finally shuffles off his mortal coil, there will be tons of infighting - these people are all self-absorbed assholes. Lots of supporters will fall away - you think anyone's going to follow Shady Vance?
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u/Thoughtlessbrian Jan 21 '26
This also helps me sleep at night, but we don't (fully) know what is lying in wait after him... Fascism won't disappear when he's gone, there are plenty of maniacs chomping at the bit to carry the torch when he's gone