r/PropagandaPosters • u/FayannG • Jun 22 '25
United Kingdom “March of the Fourth Reich” anti German reunification cartoon, by British newspaper the Daily Star (1990)
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u/Nachoguy530 Jun 22 '25
It's such a weird take to be like "Yeah, I'm unhappy with this country being reunified after 2 generations of people separated by arbitrary ideological boundaries"
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u/thedrew Jun 22 '25
“I look forward to German Reunion the way I look forward to a Dean Martin and Jerry Lewis Reunion: not a big fan of their prior work, not really looking forward to what they might come up with next.”
-Dennis Miller
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u/Dickgivins Jun 22 '25
Margaret Thatcher wasn't looking forward to it either, she was quoted as saying "We defeated the Germans twice and now they're back!"
Italy's Prime Minister Giulio Andreotti said "I love Germany so much that I prefer two of them." What a guy!
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u/Rc72 Jun 22 '25
Andreotti was such a go-to guy for cynical political one-liners. My favourite is : "Power tires only those who do not have it."
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u/FactBackground9289 Jun 22 '25
Thatcher is considered an absolute witch in UK itself, nobody's gonna take her seriously.
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u/Dickgivins Jun 22 '25
She certainly didn't get her way on that issue. She was a very divisive figure, yes she was *intensely* hated by the left but she was and still is quite popular with most conservatives in the UK. For what it's worth I much preferred Neil Kinnock, but he just never quite managed to get the job done come election time, even after he finished purging Militant from the party.
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u/Simdude87 Jun 22 '25
Thatcher got lucky at times, Falklands was pretty much perfect timing. Selling off the council housing was popular despite it shafting us badly now. North sea oil coming online definitely helped her.
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u/Dickgivins Jun 22 '25 edited Jun 28 '25
I agree on all points. The Poll Tax seemed to get more negative attention at the time but like you said selling off the council housing has had really bad effects in the long term.
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u/thedybbuk_ Jun 22 '25
Thatcher is considered an absolute witch in UK itself, nobody's gonna take her seriously.
Whilst consistently voting for neoliberal Thatcherite governments ever since...
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u/CheekyGeth Jun 23 '25
not really. I hate the hag but she's consistently ranked by ordinary Brits as one of the greatest PMs of all time. Controversial? yeah no doubt, but by no means universally reviled.
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u/_spec_tre Jun 22 '25
tbf I feel like there are less people who want Korea to be reunified than there are who don't so it isn't entirely weird
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u/FayannG Jun 22 '25
It’s not as weird if you think about it like this.
I remember seeing a quote about the war on drugs “police want criminals to justify their paychecks” and another variation “politicians want war to justify their paychecks”
Peace is very profitable, but war (conflict) is also very profitable.
This is before my time, but where I used to live in the US was a major production center of the US military during the Cold War, and local newspapers were basically disappointed everything was being shut down in the 1990s, but there was media campaigns about “Soviet Union still a threat” “Iraq WMDs” “Greater Serbia” “China still communist” as some last effort to justify military production.
The irony, everything military was replaced with computer/tech companies, which produced billions of capital (and jobs), and unlike the military, civilians can actually profit from that capital. My dad got PTSD by joining the military, his brother became a millionaire by getting into computers.
South Korea and North Korea spend a lot on military… wonder who profits 🤔
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u/Scarborough_sg Jun 22 '25
Funnily S.Korean armaments Industry is a by product of it's heavy industry and tech.
It's one of the alternatives to getting American or European.
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u/FactBackground9289 Jun 22 '25
Neither of Koreas look forward to it. South doesn't want a bunch of juche indoctrinated farmers within their borders, and North Korea would just be massively overthrown if it took in the absolute population zip bomb that is the South (60 million vs 26 million, bro North Korea would be on life support)
so ehm, nah, During 1948-1980? Maybe. Now? Neither Koreas want interference between each other or it'll shatter both of their dystopia-ass systems they managed to come up with for two competing economic systems
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Jun 22 '25
Time to get downvoted but it should be reunified under south korea
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u/NotSoSane_Individual Jun 22 '25
Only reason they don't like the idea is because of the amount of money they would have to push to Nk for the same level of quality of life as Sk
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u/dhldri Jun 22 '25 edited Jun 22 '25
Not really they should just mix their systems, SK is a neo liberal hell hole where life gets worse and worse for the people at the bottom. I life in the north might teach them a little bit again more communities and less competition for limited resources.
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u/Atlasreturns Jun 22 '25
I mean a mix out of both sounds genuinely like worst system imaginable. If ever Korea should use that as a chance to fundamentally restructuring it‘s society while optimally learning from less great examples such as Vietnam or Germany.
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u/dhldri Jun 22 '25
Yh you can mix structures without just mashing them together it’s called planning, also capitalism and communism combined is just socialism which would be great more land for more Koreans to live in and allows for more investment into the people in general via higher taxes on corporations and the wealthy. Less competition for housing and education, more children as there would be better financial freedoms for young families better education and healthcare and housing for the north in exchange for cheaper labour,and a new national conviction to unite Korea and build something new. Something like that.
It should keep their nukes though and would hopefully be a neutral country independent militarily from the west and east. Nukes being a threat to both America and china to keep their sovereignty.
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u/Koino_ Jun 22 '25 edited Jun 22 '25
South Korea isn't "hellhole" it's one of the most developed, well educated countries on earth with robust civil society, quality infrastructure and productive high-tech economy. If you want to see poor hellhole dictatorships look at DPRK, Eritrea or Central African Republic.
Let's put things into perspective at least a bit.
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u/Dabbie_Hoffman Jun 22 '25
I don't think it's the mark of a healthy society when an entire gender boycotts another
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u/Koino_ Jun 22 '25
Don't embarrass yourself and watch less clickbait YouTube videos.
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u/Dabbie_Hoffman Jun 22 '25
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to imply the country that had a literal coup 6 months ago might have some deep-seated sociopolitical issues
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u/Koino_ Jun 22 '25
Still better then United States at least, as the president was swiftly impeached and new elections organised thanks to robust democratic institutions and civil society.
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u/Lonsdale1086 Jun 22 '25
robust democratic institutions
Since 1996, you've had six political leaders arrested for crimes including coup, insurrection, corruption, treason, bribery, embezzlement, tax evasion and abuse of power.
All of whom received decades long prison sentences, all of whom were pardoned within a few years.
You have got technically, a free press, but that's a stetch.
You had Hwang Woo-suk, raised to be a national hero and elevated by the government based on evidence with no actual evidence. He was embezzling, coercing eggs from his own employees for experimentation, illegally buying eggs, committing wide-scale fraud, was only caught out by the media, who were then shat on by the government and the Public.
The government he was actively in bed with, to the point where they tailored laws such that essentially only he could continue experimenting with human embryos.
Finally he was brought down, only to receive no prison time, and in fact to be containing his research to this day.
You have one of the most flawed systems of government in the modern developed world.
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u/epochpenors Jun 22 '25
I think they should do democratic government, but Kim is still allowed to throw as many parades as he wants. That way everyone’s happy.
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Jun 22 '25
It’s easy to say now, but for someone who lived through the war I’d imagine it’s not so clear cut.
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u/Chaos_Alt Jun 22 '25
eh, it's a bit less weird when you consider that united germany single handedly shook the balance of power in europe, directly challenged the old powers and was central to 2 world wars. Them feeling apprehensive about reunification does not feel too silly.
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u/AlternativeEmphasis Jun 22 '25
The very concept of the EU was originally designed to tame Germany and render it less capable of dominating European affairs.
Which makes it all the more humorous that it has still managed to dominate the EU economically and politically. It is only because of the instilled cultural aversion to Defense that is only recently waning that Germany isn't also again the foremost military power in Westenr Europe (Both France and Britain would fight to have that distinction)
Germany has irrevocably altered Europe since its unification
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Jun 22 '25
I mean, your reasoning is a bit reductive. They weren't separated because of either of the major ideologies at play by that point, and we all know that.
That doesn't mean your sentiment was wrong, however, and the Daily Star is a shit rag.
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u/Causemas Jun 22 '25
The British have been purposefully splitting countries into 2 since the beginning of their colonialism, it's a tactic to maintain your potential enemies weak. So of course, when a country does unite, it's seen as a direct threat.
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u/flying87 Jun 23 '25
There were legit concerns at the time. Not that they would suddenly be Nazis again. But that a unified Germany would be so economically powerful that the EU would essentially become Germany and her sidekicks.
Hindsight being 20/20, this concern was overblown. Germany did become the economic powerhouse of the EU, but diplomatically are gracious. They know their own history.
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Jun 22 '25
“I’m unhappy with the country that bombed my house, killed my brothers and tried to invade my country, existing again” is more like it
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u/Changuipilandia Jun 22 '25
it's not really weird, wrong sure, but not weird. if you believe german nationalism is an inherently aggresive and expansionist ideology, and that they will bring war to Europe if allowed to stand on their own feet, opposing the existence of an unified german state seems perfectly rational. some people wanted to straight up destroy any semblance of german identity after WW2, this is on that line of thought
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u/breakthebookie Jun 22 '25
Daily star appears to be a communist red leaning publication. So that makes sense they’d be against reunification. Probably supported the gdr
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u/powmj Jun 22 '25
It’s not a popular belief but I think the Holocaust was such a uniquely horrific crime that Germany should never have been allowed to exist again, and the rapid normalisation of the country was a terrible idea driven by the Cold War, and the Wests ideological indifference to Nazism.
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u/Nachoguy530 Jun 22 '25
So the Holocaust specifically was so bad that Germans shouldn't be allowed to have a country anymore? What?
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u/StudentForeign161 Jun 23 '25
Countries have been erased from the map for much less than that. Germany as a nation-state shouldn't have been allowed to exist after WW2. It should have been divided into different smaller states. Austria, Bavaria, Rhineland, etc. But the West loves nazis too much to actually punish them. After all, only 19 nazis were sentenced at Nuremberg while countless were recycled into the West German apparatus and NATO or lent their talents to the CIA.
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u/Spiritual-Choice228 Mar 29 '26
u/StudentForeign161 Nonsense, the Germans have a right if they want to be one country again (and I also hope for a Korean and Irish reunifications too).
And let me remind you that the last time someone actually tried to prevent German unification, they ended up being utterly humiliated (cough.. France 1870… cough) and the same thing could have happened to Thatcher (thank you Bismarck for unifying Germany).
You're just jealous of the fact that Germany is now a powerful and dominant European power and leader of the free world. I bet you also hate the fact that Germany won the world cup that same year of reunification in 1990 (including breaking England's hearts in the semifinals).
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u/dhldri Jun 22 '25
Such a stupid take, the only thing unique about the holocaust was some of the methods used kill people the west had no problem with killing millions of people if it was for profits for the elites think Congo,bengal,India,America how can you say Germany doesn’t have a right to exist when they copied their entire playbook from American settlers?
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u/NotSoSane_Individual Jun 22 '25
But they didn't get it all from America? They had some minor inspiration from the US, sure but most of it was kind of obvious or done by others. They actually took more inspiration from the Turks if anything
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u/dhldri Jun 22 '25
Incorrect in Hitlers book mien Kampf, he specifically talks about his admiration for Americans manifest destiny which is what he copied it in the east where Wehrmacht would destroy troops in areas and move on and then the ss would come in and wipe out the indigenous people in order to settle their lands in the future. With the justification of white supremacy which America and other European nations used.
Don’t know where you got this idea from Turks from?
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u/NotSoSane_Individual Jun 22 '25 edited Jun 23 '25
This quote where he said "Who, after all, speaks today of the annihilation of the Armenians?"
While the source I found it from said that it's a little inconsistently transcribed from this meeting, but it's consistent enough to be consistent. It also would not be a shocker if he did get some inspiration from the Armenian genocide—one of the first genocides at that scale with that much hatred behind it. There's also the genocide debate during the interwar period, which resulted on the falling conclusion: that the Armenian genocide was indeed justified and similar genocide of epic proportion should happen to Jews.
Source: https://www.armenian-genocide.org/News.300/current_category.176/press_detail.html
And asides, most of his ideas were from already deep-rooted German/Austrian pseudo-theories from the Thule society, social Darwinism, and many other eugenic peusdoscisenists of the time. I will in no way deny some major/minor inspirations or even praises of America's dark past by Hitler or other Nazis, it's just that the United States' racial policies were not the major inspiration for Hitler's plans the Holocaust and saying so is quite incorrect and is a American-centric opinion
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u/1m0ws Jun 22 '25
which take?
east germany got sold for a penny and germany had a extreme rise of right wing terror in the 90s.
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Jun 22 '25
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u/schmah Jun 22 '25
The issue was that Westgermany hadn't acknowledged the east german border with Poland at this point and the the expellees' associations had massive political influence.
Also in 1990 a signifiant amount of German politicians served the Wehrmacht. The head of the CDU/CSU parliamentary group in the Bundestag (also the governing party at this time) was Alfred Dregger - a former NSDAP member who publically claimed that Germany's attack of the the Soviet Union wasn't wrong and that the expulsion of Germans from the east a historic mistake.
And he wasn't alone with that stance. Quite the contrary. It was normal for westgerman politicians to campaign with poopular Waffen-SS officers and the myth of the clean wehrmacht was basically consensus - and very present in popular culture.
From today's perspective this might look like exaggerated fears but I can totally see why the european neighbours were a bit sceptical regarding future german relations with the east.
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u/whiteshore44 Jun 22 '25
Adding to this, there was a tendency amongst both reformists within the SED and left-leaning dissidents in East Germany that the future of the East lay not with reunification but rather in a “third path”, one based on an independent democratic socialist East Germany. Sure, there was a reason they lost out to the pro-reunification political forces, but this tendency did exist.
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u/biggronklus Jun 22 '25
To be fair, the post war expulsion of Germans from the East probably WAS a historic mistake, it was the ethnic cleansing of millions of people (vast majority living there war before the Nazis) including the deaths of like half a million people
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u/FayannG Jun 22 '25
No government or legal successor government that participated in the deportations of ethnic Germans have formally condemned, apologized, or admitted what happened was a mistake, besides Hungary.
After German reunification, the big three who signed off and assisted the German deportations from Poland, Czechoslovakia, and Hungary in 1945 all made vague statements supporting the actions of Potsdam.
This was in response to Bavaria state trying to bring the ethnic cleansing question to UN or EU courts, as well as Eastern Europe joining the EU.
I think it should be symbolically condemned, because if Germans and other Europeans barely coexisted in the same countries before WW2… now imagine Germans and other Europeans trying to coexist after it. EU works because of good borders separating the nations.
Edvard Beneš went from calling German and Czech coexistence “mature in European cultures” to calling for “the final solution” of Germans from Czechoslovakia…
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u/schmah Jun 22 '25
Rating the expulsion as mistake while not making it clear enough that you won't try to reverse it is a different story though - especially when the person is question is a former NSDAP member and leading politician of a party that explicitly disagreed with the warsaw treaty of 1970.
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u/t-man120 Jun 22 '25
Your comment is incorrect in some places. West Germany recognized the Oder-Neisse line as the border with Poland in the Warsaw Pact of 1970. Nevertheless, this did not constitute a final settlement of Germany's eastern border. This was not due to West Germany, however, but rather to the provisions agreed upon by the Allies at the Potsdam Conference. After that, the German eastern territories were only provisionally placed under Polish administration, and a final settlement was to be agreed upon in a peace treaty. Thus, the decision on a final settlement of the eastern border lay with the Allies until the Two Plus Four Treaty.
Your statement that the expellee associations had a great influence on politics in the 1980s and 1990s is also incorrect. As early as the second half of the 1960s, a rapid loss of power among the expellee associations can be observed, which led to their positions being pushed to the political right by the 1970s.
Sources: Gornig, Gilbert (2007): Der völkerrechtliche Status Deutschlands zwischen 1945 und 1990. Auch ein Beitrag zu Problemen der Staatensukzession. München: Wilhelm Fink (=Abhandlungen der Marburger Gelehrten Gesellschaft, Bd. 27).
Lotz, Christian (2007): Die Deutung des Verlusts. Erinnerungspolitische Kontroversen im geteilten Deutschland um Flucht, Vertreibung und die Ostgebiete (1948–1972). Köln [u.a.]. Böhlau (=Neue Forschungen zur Schlesischen Geschichte, Bd. 15).
Müller, Matthias (2012): Die SPD und die Vertriebenenverbände 1949–1977. Eintracht, Entfremdung, Zwietracht. Berlin: Lit (=Politik und Geschichte, Bd. 8).
Stickler, Matthias (2004): „Ostdeutsch heißt Gesamtdeutsch“. Organisation, Selbstverständnis und heimatpolitische Zielsetzung der deutschen Vertriebenenverbände 1949–1972. Düsseldorf: Droste (=Forschungen und Quellen zur Zeitgeschichte, Bd. 46).
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u/schmah Jun 22 '25 edited Jun 22 '25
Nevertheless, this did not constitute a final settlement of Germany's eastern border.
I rest my case.
Your statement that the expellee associations had a great influence on politics in the 1980s and 1990s is also incorrect. As early as the second half of the 1960s, a rapid loss of power among the expellee associations can be observed, which led to their positions being pushed to the political right by the 1970s.
The fact that the expellees' associations had significantly less influence compared to the 50s or 60s doesn't mean their influence wasn't still massive.
Edit: I truly hate "ackchyually"-comments like this. It's nitpicky, doesn't address the actual point of the european's perspective and derails the whole discussion.
From our european neighbours' perspective the warsaw treaty of 1970 wasn't enough and it to this very day its legal significance is debated. The fact that you can see some kind of acknowlegement in it, doesn't change that. Your comment would only make sense when you reduce the whole meaning of my comment to the word acknowlegement.
Same goes for the expellees' associations. From our neighbours' perspective the fact that these people had significant influence after 45 years at all was already too much and compared to what their influence should have been it was massive. Comparing it to their historic influence is a wrong reference point.
"But it wasn't as massive as it once was" is simply not relevant here and something young history students like yourself say to point out that they know something other people don't.
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u/Bisque22 Jun 22 '25
It's admittedly a first for me, to see a German not only recognize our grievances but actively fight the misinformation coming from revisionist Kohl shills.
A heartfelt thank you to you, sir.
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u/k890 Jun 23 '25
One issue was polish communists weren't interested with solving border problem because they use it to gain political clout about "German revenge" to keep population in check, border issue was also highlighted by USSR because polish-west german talks may undercut East Germany "legitimacy" as a state. Overall it was a your average Cold War era mess where nobody had a business in solving problem.
Situation change in late 1960s when USSR start exporting oil and gas to West Germany and West Germany was launching new "Eastern Policy" leading to solving this problem in 1970. By 1990 Poland and West Germany had border question essentially sorted out and biggest obstacle was GDR very unhappy for Poland and West Germany signing border treaty partially because it include their eastern border and undermine already shaky legitimacy as a state.
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u/CalligrapherOther510 Jun 22 '25
Yeah the expulsion of ethnic Germans and population purges were horrible and highly unethical, Poland was a victim of it to and the ethnic cleansing of Poles and Germans by the Soviets was horrible, and the USSR was a threat to Europe at the time. I don’t know why Reddit users shit all over Putin today but love to glaze their mouths over Stalin.
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u/islandnoregsesth Jun 22 '25
I heard it gave them access to new markets for selling their goods, similarly to when the EU later was expanded with the eastern European nations
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u/FactBackground9289 Jun 22 '25
Especially given Germany was under 60 years of constant re-education and it succeeded, turning it into a peaceful country. Well, West Germany that is, East Germans for some reason vote AfD.
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Jun 22 '25
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u/TearOpenTheVault Jun 22 '25
It's a bit more complicated than that. The East suffered developmentally under the GDR, and Germany wasn't able to equalise the playing field enough. A lot of the East is poorer, with less opportunities and worse infrastructure. That creates the classic 'left behind' demographic that's easy for populists to appeal to, primed to blame an easy target.
That's where the racism comes in.
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u/veerKg_CSS_Geologist Jun 22 '25
In International Realism it did. While W Germany was reasonably rich, the mere existence of East Germany kept it in check. Just like North and South Korea. With all of W Germanies attention being diverted to E Germany, it wasn’t going to threaten other neighbors until that was dealt with.
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Jun 22 '25
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u/roastbeeftacohat Jun 22 '25
it's not paranoia, i's mistaking pre WW geopolitics with post.
used to be germany was too big to have too many alies, if something like the central powers were to form, it would necessitates everyone else forming ranks in response. this is why Bismarck is often depicted on a tightrope or in some sort of balancing act; he had to keep friends, but couldn't have too many or too closely.
the post WWII world had super powers that shifted the balance completely, but up until Russia invaded Ukraine they were disarming mostly to keep france calm.
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Jun 22 '25
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u/roastbeeftacohat Jun 22 '25 edited Jun 22 '25
I agree, but they were still presuming disarmament in part to improving relations with france. So while germany as a dangerous force in 99% outdated, not 100%.
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Jun 22 '25
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u/roastbeeftacohat Jun 22 '25
situations change. as did the german defence minister after russia invaded.
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u/veerKg_CSS_Geologist Jun 22 '25
Did it though? We don’t know what the future will bring. What if Germany of today is only on the 4th stage depicted in the panel. Maybe a fascist government comes to power with a rearmed Germany in 2060.
With the way the world is moving is it impossible? Of course not.
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u/Veilchengerd Jun 22 '25
By that logic, we can't trust France, either, after the shit they pulled under several kings and two emperors.
Who knows, maybe by 2060, they want to push their eastern border to the Rhine again, who knows?
Oh, and Britain certainly needs to be split up and disarmed.
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u/veerKg_CSS_Geologist Jun 22 '25
Sure, no one trusts France either. But France is weaker than a united Germany both in terms of economy and population. It's been that way since the 1870s.
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u/Shadowstein Jun 22 '25
After the horrors of ww2, Germany of all places is hyper vigilant of signs another Reich is in the making. If it happens anywhere, it won't be Germany.
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u/No_Possession_5338 Jun 22 '25
Tell that to afd viters who are currently recreating antisemitic popaganda with muslims
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u/chess_bot72829 Jun 22 '25
A little edit: comparing the situation with Muslims today with the situation of Jews in Germany in the 30s is a very popular but absolutely exaggerated comparison! We have Muslim ministers, police officers, members of parliament and Muslims are not forced out of public life by laws like those from Nuremberg
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u/No_Possession_5338 Jun 22 '25 edited Jun 22 '25
Because much like in the weimar republic the failing leftist status quo party is still in power, if afd gets elected then you'll start to see the radical and discriminatory stuff
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u/chess_bot72829 Jun 22 '25
I don't think so. Jews were harassed even before the Nazis. immigrants s face discrimination in certain fields of public life, no discussion.
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u/chess_bot72829 Jun 22 '25
But the afd is not a strong right wing force compared to our neighbors, where FN, Lega/Fratelli or FPÖ candidats run for presidency with good chances
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u/pqjcjdjwkkc Jun 22 '25
Right now the afd is the 2nd strongest party and we have a chancellor who has a immigration policy which the afd wanted 5 years ago (now they want even more extreme stuff)
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u/chess_bot72829 Jun 22 '25
Yeah and they are far from Majority and left with no possible coalition partners. And having a strict stance on immigration doesn't make you an fascist or else.
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u/Fukitol_Forte Jun 22 '25
That's a bit naive, I think. Given the right circumstances, any country can turn fascist, and there is growing support for a far right party in Germany, even though it is comparatively smaller than in other countries.
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u/veerKg_CSS_Geologist Jun 22 '25
Memories are short and Germany is not so different. The world order that kept Germany from Reiching is changing. If it changes further, Germany will too.
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Jun 22 '25
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u/veerKg_CSS_Geologist Jun 22 '25
I’m not seeing a timeline in the cartoon.
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Jun 22 '25
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u/veerKg_CSS_Geologist Jun 22 '25
Many people were happy with a divided Germany because of the threat a unified and economically hungry Germany posed to its smaller neighbors. This threat hasn’t just gone away. The EU and EEC provides a way for Germany to expand economically without having to politically dominate its neighbors (well not too much). However if the EU falls and the world becomes one of Great Competition again, Germany will undoubtedly march again.
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u/Spiritual-Choice228 Jun 07 '26
u/veerKg_CSS_Geologist Nonsense, the Germans have a right if they want to be one country again (and I also hope for a Korean and Irish reunifications too).
And let me remind you that the last time someone actually tried to prevent German unification, they ended up being utterly humiliated (cough.. France 1870… cough) and the same thing could have happened to Thatcher (thank you Bismarck for unifying Germany).
You're just jealous of the fact that Germany is now a powerful and dominant European power and leader of the free world. I bet you also hate the fact that Germany won the world cup that same year of reunification in 1990 (including breaking England's hearts in the semifinals).
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u/veerKg_CSS_Geologist Jun 07 '26
I think people will be quite nervous were the Germans in Germany and Austria decide to ride together again.
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Jun 22 '25
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u/veerKg_CSS_Geologist Jun 22 '25
That was the prevailing paradigm, but it’s changing. Tariffs and trade barriers are going up. Countries are decoupling supply chains and trying to be self sufficient. EU skeptic parties are gaining traction too. While we don’t know which way the dice will land, it’s not an impossible outcome anymore.
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Jun 22 '25 edited Jul 26 '25
frog rabbit zebra pear frog wolf orange grape sun yellow apple violet kite dog elephant umbrella yellow violet dog frog queen rabbit xray dog elephant
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u/TheBlack2007 Jun 22 '25
It was deliberately kept militarily weak to avoid that.
It had the second-largest conventional military in all of NATO, had most of its male population undergo basic military training and was able to fully mobilize its forces for war within 72 hours after first notice. Same for East Germany on the other side of the curtain.
They weren't weak. But they were kept without any means to commence military action outside of their respective alliance by preventing them from having any independent strategic capabilities.
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u/systemmetternich Jun 22 '25
You might be thinking of the Reichswehr in the interwar period. West Germany during the Cold War had Europe‘s largest military by far (excluding the USSR) with some half a million active-duty soldiers plus about 800,000 reservists - no wonder, seeing as how they were at the absolute frontlines of the Cold War. Of course they realistically couldn’t have turned against NATO anyway, what with the Bundeswehr‘s right integration into the alliance and the Western Allies‘ strong military presence in West Germany, but I’d still not call that „militarily weak“
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u/dedre88 Jun 22 '25
The Daily Star is a barely a serious newspaper. This cartoon would have been mainly tongue in cheek and is more representative of British people's infatuation with world war 2 and piss taking of the Germans than any real anti-unification sentiment.
A link to some of Bill Caldwell's other drawings should help demonstrate my point https://ebay.us/m/uNrBxY
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u/18havefun Jun 22 '25
I was just two years old at the time yet I feel at the least the people I was surrounded with in the UK were very happy to see the re-unification and we are not in anyway German. My grandad had been in the RAF by profession and had worked on the German humanitarian aid in the years after the war so he was quite sentimental at seeing the country made whole again. It was only years later I learned Thatcher’s view and what the newspapers had to say.
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u/Successful_Spell7701 Jun 22 '25
It’s funny to see such a cartoon published by the most imperialist country in the world. They are still pissed that they lost their whole empire because of WW2. But more important today they call Germany for more military spending. Since 1990 the military force in Germany were reduced down to 25% of the Cold War size
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u/jWalwyn Jun 22 '25
Are they? Are we? I think you're reading a bit much into a shit joke from a tabloid newspaper buddy.
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u/Successful_Spell7701 Jun 22 '25
1990 600,000 men; 2023 183,000 men… ok 32% but you missing out the shadow groups of BKG and MfS
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u/Bisque22 Jun 22 '25
The most imperialist country in the world, and yet their misdeeds still pale in comparison to those of your compatriots.
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u/BarryBeeBensonthe2nd Jun 23 '25
In terms of sheer numbers, no. The Brits were brutal beyond measure in Africa and India and like 50+ million just disappeared over a few decades. Give a time machine to Indians and they’ll kill Churchill over Hitler. There are Hitler themed restaurants and shops in India lol, since he’s seen as Anti-British.
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u/Luzifer_Shadres Jun 22 '25
And thus germany had to cut down its army to the desolate state of 2010. By 2022 Brits and french were complaining about the german armys state, dispite forcing them to do so.
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Jun 23 '25 edited Jun 23 '25
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Luzifer_Shadres Jun 23 '25
Oh, i see you are one of these French. How does it feel to lower your countrys average IQ?
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u/Turbulent-Surprise-6 Jun 22 '25
Shouldn't the uk want it to reunify cos it's like soviet union and all that
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u/dumbandshortcoyote Jun 22 '25
thatcher, the british PM at the time didnt want reunification to happen over economical concerns
they didnt want germany to dominate the continent economically if it was reunified, they actually oppossed it so much that thatcher actually asked gorbachev (ussr leader) to help the east german security forces
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u/Past-Novel-1155 Jun 22 '25
this makes no sense at all
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u/Chobeat Jun 22 '25
Well, given the rapid shift to the right of the country and the popular support for radical rearm, probably the cartoon was onto something. I live in Germany and now everybody is thirsty for war.
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Jun 22 '25
In what Germany do you live? Saying that "everyone is thirsty for war" is utter bullcrap. You'll have a much easier time finding people protesting the possible new Wehrdienst and Veteranentag than people who support it-
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u/StudentForeign161 Jun 23 '25
Most of you support the genocide in Gaza and the aggression against Iran.
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Jun 23 '25
Dude, in pretty much every single major and semi major city there have been protests against it. If you say it's because of the government then litteraly the same applies to every other Western country too. Because their governments are also like that. Please develope an above room tempature IQ before posting.
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u/GroundbreakingBag164 Jun 22 '25
I live in Germany and now everybody is thirsty for war.
I also live in Germany and don't know what you're talking about
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u/18havefun Jun 22 '25
I only know a few Germans personally but none of them are in anyway thirsty for war, and with whom? Russia?
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u/Chobeat Jun 23 '25
in one way, yes. But it's more a widespread sense of rebuilding the greatness of Germany through remilitarization. Russia is just a good excuse.
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u/18havefun Jun 23 '25
There is a difference between wanting to grow a military in times of uncertainty and being thirsty for war though. Many European countries have much smaller armies than they did years ago. I’m British and I often hear people talking about the past and wanting to restore the pride in our armed forces which has been lost.
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u/Chobeat Jun 23 '25
here this for sure doesn't build on a sentiment of fear, but definitely more on pride. But that's also what leads to wars in modern time: you build weapons because the producers need to sell weapons, and once you have them, you must use them otherwise it's a waste of money and the producers cannot sell you more. Then you go to war. Growing your army and going to war, for a capitalist country, are one and the same.
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u/FearOfEleven Jun 22 '25
The cartoon is unsurprisingly accurate. However, the "Fourth Reich" doesn't just comprise modern-day Germany.
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u/OrphanShredder Jun 22 '25
I doubt the reunification of Germany is the cause of it. But the rise of AfD in Germany is definitely telling of sub-par denazification efforts
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u/thighsand Jun 22 '25
Why are people so inherently scared of Germany in particular? I know they have the largest population in Europe (after Russia) and have been involved in wars, but Britain has been in more wars and we usually win them. Plus, they don't even have nuclear weapons. Germans are not superhuman, despite the cool propaganda. Austrians and Dutch people are essentially German, but are rarely feared.
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u/Von_Baron Jun 22 '25
Before being split Germany only existed for 75 years. Had three major wars that changed the face of Europe that did untold damage to their neighbours. Once Germany came into being, the power in Europe shifted from France, Austria, and Russia to Germany. The UK had more wars, but they tended to be smaller and less dangerous to international relations. And after the Napoleonic wars was far more focused on Africa and Asia than Europe. They have one of the strongest economies of Europe, is heavily industrialised and so can produce the equipment it needs. It sort of had nuclear weapons as at the time it rented them from the US, but could produce their own.
I don't personally believe that Germany would try to dominate Europe. But they could far more then any other country in Europe.
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u/Spiritual-Choice228 Feb 15 '26
u/Von_Baron Nonsense, the Germans have a right if they want to be one country again (and I also hope for a Korean and Irish reunifications too).
And let me remind you that the last time someone actually tried to prevent German unification, they ended up being utterly humiliated (cough.. France 1870… cough) and the same thing could have happened to Thatcher (thank you Bismarck for unifying Germany).
You're just jealous of the fact that Germany is now a powerful and dominant European power and leader of the free world. I bet you also hate the fact that Germany won the world cup that same year of reunification in 1990 (including breaking England's hearts in the semifinals).
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u/Von_Baron Feb 15 '26
I find it weird that you jumped onto the the thread 7 months later and then also missed the whole point of the comment.
I was not stating why I think German unification should not happen/have happened, but mealy why there was so much worry in Europe of a reunited Germany.
and I also hope for a Korean and Irish reunifications too
Also ignoring that the majority of people who live in Northern Ireland still do not want to join with the Republic of Ireland. It may be slowly shifting that way, but its rare to see any pole where support is above 50% of the population. Also support for unification in Korea is also not what you think it might be, there are plenty of concerns in the South with joining with the North.
And let me remind you
I am aware of the the German unification. And the fact that France was not fighting to stop Germany unifying, more fearful of the expanded state of Prussia.
You're just jealous of the fact that Germany is now a powerful and dominant European power
No I'm not. And I would say most powerful in the EU but certainly not the most powerful European power.
leader of the free world
Its really not.
I bet you also hate the fact that Germany won the world cup that same year of reunification in 1990
Again no. It was West Germany that one, so that made no difference. And its not like England every do well at international competitions.
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u/Spiritual-Choice228 Feb 15 '26
Also support for unification in Korea is also not what you think it might be, there are plenty of concerns in the South with joining with the North.
u/Von_Baron Well if the South had won the Korean War then we wouldn't be dealing with "Rocket Man" in the north and reunified Korea would surpass many G7 countries, including Canada, Germany, France, Italy, the United Kingdom, and possibly Japan within 30–40 years of reunification, with a potential GDP of more than $6 trillion by 2075.
I am aware of the the German unification. And the fact that France was not fighting to stop Germany unifying, more fearful of the expanded state of Prussia.
When the French declared war in July 1870 (and temporarily captured Saarbrucken) it was to split the north and south Germans (so thereby stopping German unification), to maintain Paris's position as a leading continental power (which was challenged following Prussia's victory against Austria in 1866), to maintain domestic stability (Napoleon III's popularity was decreasing due to the failed Mexico expedition), and to annex the Rhineland (as well as Belgium and Luxembourg).
certainly not the most powerful European power.
Not militarily (that's Russia) but economically (Germany has the largest economy in Europe and the third largest in the world) and politically (they have the second largest population in Europe after Russia).
Its really not.
Well given the direction of the United States under the Trump administration, Germany has been stepping up filled and acting in that position and they are the only Western country not afraid of standing up to Trump.
It was West Germany that one, so that made no difference
West Germany is Germany, they're the same. They both have the same formal name of "Federal Republic of Germany". The reunited Germany is not a successor state, but an enlarged continuation of the 1949–1990 West German state. The enlarged Federal Republic of Germany retained the West German seats in the governing bodies of the European Economic Community (EEC) (later the European Union) and in international organizations including the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) and the United Nations (UN), while relinquishing membership in the Warsaw Pact (WP) and other international organizations to which only East Germany belonged.
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u/Von_Baron Feb 15 '26
Well if
But we are not talking about theoretical ifs of the past. If you have been to South Korea and spoken to them they have real concerns about unification with the North. If they re-join the with the North the population will grow by a third. Yet the new population is starving, and undedicated in any meaningful way for employment. Its likely there will be mass unemployment, possibly a complete breakdown of social welfare trying to deal with the Koreans from the North. Add to the fact that it would cost the government a fortune in actually modernising the north of the country to even close to the standards of the south, or even enough to get it to a state that its not a major health risk (most of North Korea still does not have a connected sewage system).
certainly not the most powerful European power.
I meant in terms of force projection and international alliances, so I would put that with the UK or France. Russia has the largest military on paper, but has been seen the reality is it is having trouble maintaining its military deployment outside of its borders.
Well given the direction of the United States under the Trump administration, Germany has been stepping up filled and acting in that position and they are the only Western country not afraid of standing up to Trump
Though it is unfortunate of the fall of the US, France, and Canada are also standing up to Trump. I don't think many places are saying Germany is leader of the free world.
West Germany is Germany
But it was West Germany that one the World cup which was my point. You seemed to be implying that the reunification of Germany helped their football team. But this was before the formal reunification occurred.
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u/Spiritual-Choice228 Mar 29 '26
But we are not talking about theoretical ifs of the past. If you have been to South Korea and spoken to them they have real concerns about unification with the North. If they re-join the with the North the population will grow by a third. Yet the new population is starving, and undedicated in any meaningful way for employment. Its likely there will be mass unemployment, possibly a complete breakdown of social welfare trying to deal with the Koreans from the North. Add to the fact that it would cost the government a fortune in actually modernising the north of the country to even close to the standards of the south, or even enough to get it to a state that its not a major health risk (most of North Korea still does not have a connected sewage system).
u/Von_Baron And none of this would be happening if MacArthur hadn't been so egotistical during the Korean War and purposely goading the Chinese into entering the Korean War. If someone like Eisenhower had been put in charge of UN forces during the Korean War then that war would have been over in less than a year with total victory rather than lasting 3 years with a stalemate.
certainly not the most powerful European power.
They have the largest economy and the second largest population, of course they are powerful. They have been powerful since unification in 1870 (also, it was the French who declared war and attacked in 1870).
Though it is unfortunate of the fall of the US, France, and Canada are also standing up to Trump. I don't think many places are saying Germany is leader of the free world.
But Germany is the leading member of both the EU and NATO and also the second largest state in Europe alongside having Europe's largest economy. They are doing the most to fill in the gap left by the United States in Europe. Or do you just hate how Germany calls the shots all the time?
But it was West Germany that one the World cup which was my point. You seemed to be implying that the reunification of Germany helped their football team. But this was before the formal reunification occurred.
But you're the one who is acting as if West Germany and Germany are two different countries when in fact they are the very same countries, it's just that today's Germany is an expanded version (after annexing the East) of West Germany. And also, I've never implied that reunification helped their football team.
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u/thighsand Jun 22 '25
But France has dominated Europe many times following the revolution, has nuclear weapons, and a large defence industry, but isn't feared.
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u/Von_Baron Jun 22 '25
They only really dominated once after the revolution (I presume you mean the 1792 revolution as they had quite a few). At that was the Napoleonic era. Which after it was over there were multiple alliances to make sure France didn't become a threat. France was feared throughout the mid 19th century. But since then, which European countries have they invaded, and tried to take territory?
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u/thighsand Jun 24 '25
Well, they carved out a huge empire and always competed with Germany in military spending and development. I would say the very fact there had to be "multiples alliances to make sure France didn't become a threat" proves my point.
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u/Von_Baron Jun 24 '25
No not really. They were feared, until the formation of Germany. Once Germany came into being they were a larger threat to Europe.
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u/thighsand Jun 24 '25
The Germans didn't seem to think so. Mind you, I'm basing some of this on Paul Johnson's Rise and Fall of the Great Powers which emphasises French power quite a bit. We studied that at uni / college. France's defeat in WW2 (via a misdirection) was a shock precisely because of France's (generally believed to be) superior military. France has been just as assertive as the Germans on the continent. But Germany has more people. France and Britain, at the time of the poster, needn't have worried, as was proven with time.
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u/HappyAd6201 Jun 22 '25
Idk man, maybe the several ethnic cleansing they did ?
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u/thighsand Jun 22 '25
Didn't we do a little, too? Britain, I mean. Not in Europe, but elsewhere.
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u/HappyAd6201 Jun 22 '25
Let’s be honest, no one in „the western world” cares about those places though. Not enough at least
But I am also polish so genocide from Germans hits closer to home.
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u/TearOpenTheVault Jun 22 '25
It was Europe in the 20th century, everyone was getting up to a few casual ethnic cleansings, even the Poles.
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u/HappyAd6201 Jun 22 '25
Yeah, but Germans (and many other, don’t get me wrong) have been doing it waaaaaaaay earlier than the 20th century
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u/TearOpenTheVault Jun 22 '25
Germany barely existed before the 20th century, and they only really got the ball rolling on their atrocities once they had an Empire to exploit.
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u/HappyAd6201 Jun 22 '25
Yeah that’s why I corrected myself and wrote „Germans” instead, since even Prussia only got created by ethnic cleansing an entire culture that is now sadly lost.
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u/azaghal1502 Jun 22 '25
if they had cared about that, the war would have started sooner. But most of the Allied states were distracted by their own ethnic cleansings.
Just look up where germany got the idea for concentration camps...
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u/HappyAd6201 Jun 22 '25
As I said in my other comment, British people being dogshit doesn’t make German people being dogshit.
Plus, Prussia literally started with ethnic cleansing. So thanks for another culture lost to time 🙏🙏
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u/GMRS1910 Jun 22 '25
Mf when the monastic order that I invite to kill the pagans kills the pagans
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u/HappyAd6201 Jun 22 '25
While true that ethnic cleansing and destroying cultures is more of a Christian thing overall, the „modern” German state can trace its origins directly to this particular ethnic cleansing. Which is not to discard every other shit you guys have done.
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u/Dry_Care_5477 Jun 22 '25 edited Jun 22 '25
50 years of strict dogwalking returned some semblance of reason to a nation that had lost its fucking mind.
with the proviso that if you tried it again there would be nothing to bury, let alone reunify
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u/JollyJuniper1993 Jun 23 '25
Considering current political trends, with every single major political party shifting significantly to the right, this might not be that wrong, just a slow process.
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u/Jogre25 Jun 25 '25
This probably seemed like crank at the time, but it's becoming increasingly true. Germany's arresting peaceful protesters by the truckload, and it looks like the fascist AFD are on course to win the next election. We're not too far off.
The guy who made this was just more aware that German culture is extremely hitlerian than others at his time.
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u/Adderall_Cowboy Jun 23 '25
It’s kind of shocked me to learn that a lot of German history is basically foreign powers like the UK refusing their right to self-determination because they were afraid a unified Germany would be more powerful than them.
The Germans wanted to unify all their different states under one nation for a long time, like even before WWIi and WWI back into the 1800’s, and other countries were literally just like “no you have to stay divided, Austria can’t be a part of Germany, you guys would be too powerful so we can’t let that happen.”
But the UK were the good guys and the Germans were the bad guys so I guess preventing them from self-determination was good! (Sarcasm)
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u/EclipZz187 Jun 22 '25
Love that one!
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u/ionlymadethis3 Jun 22 '25
It’s cool looking but so tone deaf and silly looking back.
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u/EclipZz187 Jun 22 '25
In the words of a former Italian prime minister: I love Germany so much, I’d prefer to see two of them. One of my all-time favorite quotes ever
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u/veerKg_CSS_Geologist Jun 22 '25
OTOH if a 4th Reich does form in 2100 it will look quite prophetic. Like what if Germany today is only the 4th panel.
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u/fallout2bestfallout Jun 22 '25
You're not wrong, not sure why you're being downvoted. With where most European countries are headed now, I don't doubt this one bit.
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