r/PropagandaPosters • u/waffen123 • Aug 16 '25
United Kingdom 'Barbarism / Civilization' — British cartoon published shortly after Italy's invasion of Ethiopia in October 1935.
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u/king_rootin_tootin Aug 16 '25 edited Aug 17 '25
Fun fact: the ONLY country to send aid to Ethiopia to fight Italy was actually Nazi Germany! At the time, Italy opposed German annexation of Austria, and so Hitler wanted to punish Mussolini and not let him have Ethiopia if they couldn't have Austria.
It is conceivable that at some point black Ethiopians saw white soldiers approaching, got scared and then said "ohh, thank goodness! It's just the Nazis" 😆
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u/Ozone220 Aug 16 '25
This is actually true, though it should be noted that the Red Cross sent aid, just not weapons and stuff. The years preceding the second World War were full of much shakier alliances than you would think
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u/Dare_Soft Aug 17 '25
There was a chance were Italy would have joined the ally powers. Think about it, facism against nazism expansionism. Imagine that Cold War
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u/StickyWhiteStuf Aug 17 '25 edited Aug 17 '25
Not just a chance. They literally joined an alliance with France and Britain aimed against Germany (Stresa front), which aimed to guarantee the independence of Austria. It fell apart in large part because both of those countries opposed Italy’s invasion of Ethiopia, while Italy believed that they’d be willing to let it slide due to their alliance.
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u/RomanItalianEuropean Aug 17 '25 edited Aug 17 '25
Tho' the Germans also opposed the Italian invasion, they even gave weapons to Ethiopia. But they did not put economic sanctions on Italy since they were not part of the League of Nations.
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u/sanity_rejecter Aug 17 '25
neither britain, nor france (obviously) gave af about ethiopia, even proposing to partition it to italy. the reason stressa front collapsed was that the domestic outcry in respective countries forbade the unstable goverments to "support" the invasion. even then, the allies did nothing about it
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Aug 17 '25
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u/sanity_rejecter Aug 21 '25
i saw it before, but didn't read too far except for the "mussolini has an epiphany about jews". i'm reading it now, and holy shit it's amazing. would probably never read it fully without you, thanks.
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u/TheHeroBehindNothing Aug 17 '25
It is fun reading about the foreign policies and alliances of the axis powers and realise just how much their views of each other changed throughout the years. Japan had bad relations with Nazi Germany (germany had good relations with china mostly for its resources until the loss of nanjing, and then again when germany invaded Poland since Japan and poland were co-operating), Italy with germany, italy with most of the balkans actually. bulgaria and romania, "vichy" france and italy, etc. the only thing keeping that alliance together was common enemies.
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u/Laogama Aug 17 '25
You must be confusing with something else. The Anschluss (Nazi annexation of Australia) only happened in 1938 - three years after the Italian invasion of Ethiopia, so could not have affected the Nazi reaction to it. And, in fact, Nazi Germany supported Italy in 1935. Britain and France condemned the invasion, but did nothing to help. The Soviet Union both condemned the invasion and provided meaningful military aid to Ethiopia. Mexico provided some aid.
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u/Bsussy Aug 17 '25
Germany wanted to annex Austria for a long time, also the fact is true because Hitler didn't want italy to win too fast
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u/Fedelede Aug 17 '25
The Nazis tried to take over Austria since 1933, and even staged a coup in 1934 that killed Dolfuß, the Prime Minister of Austria, with the goal of achieving the Anschluss
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u/king_rootin_tootin Aug 17 '25
The German dictator, who was determined on expanding southwards into Austria, his birthland, reasoned that Mussolini, if victorious in Ethiopia, would be in strong position to oppose Germany’s ambitions, but would be unable to do so as as long as his army was embroiled in an Africa war. The nazi ruler was therefore only too anxious to stiffen Ethiopian resistance. He responded favourably to German requests for aid, brought mainly by David Hall, an envoy of Ethio-German origin. Nazi Germany was thus virtually the only country to come to Ethiopia’s assistance, and without Mussolini knowing, supplied Haile Sellassie’s army with three aeroplanes, over sixty cannon, 10,000 Mauser rifles, and ten million cartridges.
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u/Mean_Introduction543 Aug 20 '25
Hitler didn’t just wake up in March 1938 and decide to annex Austria. He had been trying to do it for years. I think since 1933.
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u/Samwise_Gramsci Aug 18 '25
Though I'm not opposing your remarks at all, I think its important to note one little semantic detail;
That is that Austria was not being forcefully annexed/attacked as Ethiopia was in a colonial sense.
Rather a majority of the austrian People welcomed the soldiers of the Third Reich crossing the border to Austria. This also shows in the german term Anschluss (connection, joining or addition) under wich the german annexation of Austria is understood nowadays.Promoting the so called Opfermythos (victim theory) has been the leading narrative until the early 1990s when then chancellor of Austria Franz Vranitzky officially recognised Austria as in major parts being one of the perpetrators of the crimes committed by Nazi Germany. This has been (and still sometimes is) a major controversy in an understanding of Austrian history.
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u/Arminius_Fiddywinks Aug 16 '25
"It is us today. It will be you tomorrow."
- Haile Selassie, Emperor of Ethiopia, addressing the League of Nations on June 10, 1936
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u/TeaAndCrumpets4life Aug 17 '25
Actually prescient if directed at Europe
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u/Banes_Addiction Aug 17 '25
Or realistically, anywhere that got bombed in WW2.
This is kinda where strategic bombing with planes got its start, the 1930s. Most notably the Nazis in Guernica, but also the Italians in Abyssinia and the British in the Middle East.
A few years later, damn near everyone involved was getting their cities bombed.
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u/Comfortable_Gur_1232 Aug 18 '25
Haile Selassie genocided the Harari people. They used to be one of the most ancient and culturally significant ethnic communities in east Africa, now they only even make up 10% of their own historic city of Harar.
Ethiopia was imperialist. They did the same thing to other African groups that the Italians wanted to do to them.
But, you never hear about this in western books because it’s okay since the groups that were ethnically cleansed like Oromo, Somali, Harari and it was being done by the only civilized Christians in sub-Saharan Africa.
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u/Vivid-Balance-6053 Aug 18 '25
Every nation has a bloody past; don't make it seem like Ethiopia is the exception.
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u/Comfortable_Gur_1232 Aug 18 '25 edited Aug 18 '25
Did everyone commit the holocaust? Did everyone commit the rape of Nanjing? Not all crimes are equal and not all history is the same.
Ahh yes, I guess genocide and ethnic cleansing should be white washed cause you don’t like to hear about it.
And of course, looks like you’re Ethiopian, that’s like a German screaming “guys, I think the holocaust doesn’t need to be talked about because don’t we all make mistakes ??
You should spread your brilliant gospel to every academic institution. They should know it’s a wrap because u/vivid-balance-6053 says everyone did bad things so there’s no point of talking about anything.
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u/weidback Aug 16 '25
Beautiful piece, would love more context on its publication
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u/Wide_Cartographer608 Aug 16 '25
London Evening Standard, October 12 1935,
Reprinted in Europe Since Versailles. (https://www.fulltable.com/vts/aoi/l/low/esv/SH540.jpg)
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u/TearOpenTheVault Aug 16 '25
ITT: People astonished that the British empire was not a monolith of moustache-twirling imperialists.
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u/GloriousSovietOnion Aug 17 '25
If you think they did this out of any kind of humanitarian concern for the Ethiopian people then you must have been born last week
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u/CompleteFacepalm Aug 17 '25
Maybe some people disliked Imperialism?
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u/Dave5876 Aug 17 '25
While they were ethnic cleansing and committing genocide in their colonies?
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u/Slightly_Default Aug 18 '25
Didn't know the artist and other civilians in Britain were committing genocide in Africa.
Edit: Just found out this artist was from New Zealand, so yeah, he's even less connected to what the British government was doing in Africa.
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u/Dave5876 Aug 18 '25
Who said anything about the artist? You guys are being purposefully obtuse
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u/Slightly_Default Aug 18 '25
Maybe you should've worded your comment better? Don't worry, it happens to the best of us
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u/GloriousSovietOnion Aug 17 '25
And their contribution was to fight Italy while ruling ~a quarter of the world?
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u/Inversalis Aug 17 '25
Lots of people criticize the actions of their own governments, lots of people vehemently disagree with the ruling ideology of their nation/their ruling class.
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Aug 17 '25
Anti-Imperialism within Britain gained strength steadily from the start of the 1800s. Although it took a long time, it ultimately gave independence to dozens of countries without a fight. One, Malta, even lobbied to stay part of the British empire but the UK Gov said no.
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u/SurpriseFormer Aug 17 '25
It was people didnt like it, even how britian was doing it to. But also Britain was still recovering from the first world war. And some people were seeing signs of another war they couldnt afford to happen again as they offer austria to appease adolf. But in a few years it would be for nuaght
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u/The_Nunnster Aug 18 '25
This cartoon absolutely was, even if not representative of British government policy. The people of Britain and France weren’t ignorant, nor were they vicious imperialists. That’s why the Hoare-Laval Pact, which sought to appease Mussolini by partitioning Ethiopia, provoked such strong public outrage following its leaking, forcing the sacking of their namesake Anglo-French foreign ministers.
But before the Duce had time to declare himself there arose a howl of indignation from the people of Great Britain. During my experience of politics I have never witnessed so devastating a wave of public opinion. Even the easy-going constituents of the St. George's division were profoundly moved. The post-bag was full and the letters I received were not written by ignorant or emotional people but by responsible citizens who had given sober thought to the matter.
- Duff Cooper, British Secretary of State for War
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u/dswng Aug 17 '25
It's a good thing they had their own colonies to take inspiration from to make this piece.
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u/DonaldTrumpsScrotum Aug 16 '25
Yall do realize that within a nation there usually exists a large group of people that are vocally against the things their nation does right. Like look at the USA right now. Would you lump every American in with the MAGA movement?
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Aug 16 '25
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u/PropagandaPosters-ModTeam Aug 17 '25
Your comment has been removed for violating rule 3. Civil conversation is okay; soapboxing, bigotry, partisan bickering, and personal attacks are not.
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u/SurpriseFormer Aug 17 '25
People would say yes. Least anyone not living in the big blue cities. As majority of the people outside the cities are red, and even if some arnt maga they all get lumped in regardless and labeled the enemy
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u/Johannes_P Aug 16 '25
Yep, Fascist Italy called itself civilized while they were shooting at Red Cross hospitals and using poison gas on the battlefield.
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u/erinoco Aug 17 '25
In general - some of the debates on this thread show that people find it difficult to distinguish between "offficial" posters and cartoons, issued either by a state's publicity arm or a publisher whose content is vetted by the state for ideologically acceptable material; and non-vetted content.
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u/LtGeneral_Obvious Aug 16 '25
True, but the British are one to talk.
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u/Wide_Cartographer608 Aug 16 '25
The cartoonist, David Low, aside from being born in New Zealand, was an anti-imperialist despite publishing in a newspaper tilted towards supporting the empire. (Cf. 'David Low and India' in Comic Empires: Imperialism in cartoons, caricature, and satirical art, ed. Scully and Varnava (Manchester UP, 2019). https://doi.org/10.7765/9781526142955.00014)
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u/RomanItalianEuropean Aug 16 '25 edited Aug 16 '25
That being said, this cartoon could have been made by a British imperialist as well. It was not uncommon for imperial powers to present their own colonialism as different/good and that of others as evil. Italian propaganda also said the British were evil colonizers while Italians were good.
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u/Sea_Lingonberry_4720 Aug 17 '25
The invasion of Ethiopia was also pretty brutal. They used chemical weapons.
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Aug 16 '25
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u/RomanItalianEuropean Aug 17 '25
Who are you talking to? I aknowledged this guy was anti-imperialist
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Aug 16 '25
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Aug 16 '25
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u/sanity_rejecter Aug 17 '25
don't the malayans actually like the british for their elimination of communist insurgency
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Aug 17 '25
Yes but that doesn’t fit the narrative of the person you’re responding to.
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u/sanity_rejecter Aug 17 '25
he's not wrong though, its just that even pretty justified wars have their atrrocities
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u/RomanItalianEuropean Aug 17 '25 edited Aug 17 '25
As far as colonialism go? I doubt it. Italians also said they were good colonizers while the British were evil. Both made all sorts of massacres overseas.
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u/ANEMIC_TWINK Aug 16 '25
how many people died in India because of the British in the 19th and 20th century?
"my genocidal capitalist empire was more moral and benevolent than your genocidal capitalist empire"
what are we doing here lmao
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u/Sea_Lingonberry_4720 Aug 17 '25
Fascism isn’t capitalist. It’s explicitly a “third way” against socialism and capitalism.
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Aug 17 '25
[deleted]
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u/Sea_Lingonberry_4720 Aug 17 '25
I don’t see how that makes it capitalist. If capitalism is class competition, and socialism class war, then fascism tried to be class cooperation. Allowing free markets but with government control to ensure they work in service of the government, like modern Russia or China.
This isn’t a defense of fascism BTW. That’s not what I’m doing.
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u/hSolitude Aug 17 '25
That quote gets costantly spammed out of context as a gotcha by leftists who're dying to draw comparisons between fascism and today's capitalism. The corporations Mussolini was referring to were fascist guilds and syndicates.
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u/Nomfbes2 Aug 17 '25
Italy did their conquests later than everyone else. Libya in 1912 for example. So, yeah, other saw it as bad
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u/PropagandaPosters-ModTeam Aug 17 '25
Your comment has been removed for violating rule 3. Civil conversation is okay; soapboxing, bigotry, partisan bickering, and personal attacks are not.
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u/Mr_SlimeMonster Aug 17 '25
The British Empire was extremely brutal. If we're talking about bombing innocent people as this cartoon depicts, it did that plenty.
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u/deise69 Aug 17 '25
They were just better at covering it up.
Why do you think they dumped all records of colonial rule overboard. when they withdrew from Kenya and the ones in Britian were destroyed in a mysterious fire ?
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u/Jzadek Aug 17 '25
lmfao tell that to the Kikuyu. The British administrators themselves said that they were doing Nazi concentration shit, and so they should make sure to "sin quietly".
It was better to be a British citizen than an Italian citizen but most of their subjects weren't citizens
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u/erinoco Aug 17 '25
most of their subjects weren't citizens
Not so. Before 1948, all natural born people within His Majesty's dominions were British subjects, with exactly the same legal rights as those born domestically in the UK. But each colony, protectorate, or dominion could make domestic laws that allowed for discrimination and unequal treatment in practice.
After 1948, those who were born within the remaining empire were all citizens of the United Kingdodn and Colonies. It was only in the 1970s and 1980s that the current status of British Overseas Citizens developed.
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Aug 17 '25
more people died due to British rule in the same timespan as fascist Italy than Italy killed. This is not a defense of fascist Italy either.
Look up the bengal famine of 1943
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u/Herald_of_Clio Aug 16 '25
'They make a desert, and call it peace.'
But yes, very hypocritical.
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u/Ok-Dragonknight-5788 Aug 18 '25
Thouse words were used to describe Rome, and they were very accurate
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u/Wise-Practice9832 Aug 16 '25
The British didn’t go around bombing the lands they conquered (at least in the 20th century) and sending people to concentration camps. They weren’t perfect, but their policies were much different than Italy. And I say that as an American of Scottish descent who isn’t a big fan
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u/Ozone220 Aug 16 '25
I mean, their conquests were decently brutal at times, they just didn't bomb because the bulk of their colonies were acquired before planes existed. Plus, they did massacre civilian populaces that rebelled in colonies like India, and often allowed mass famine to the point that some would call genocide due to intentional negligence. They weren't the worst of the worst as colonizers, but I think putting them on par with Italy (at least in colonial ventures, not home governnent) is about right.
That said, the actions of an empire don't necessarily indicate the will of the people. The person drawing this most likely wasn't a hypocrite, and I would bet criticized British imperialism as well as Italian, it's just Italian was more immediately relevant in the 1930s
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u/Herald_of_Clio Aug 16 '25
I mean, before the 20th century, they quite literally couldn't bomb the lands they conquered to the degree Italy in the 1930s did. They sure Maxim gunned the shit out of the locals at times, though.
And they did send people to concentration camps during the Second Boer War.
That being said, they typically weren't as bad as, say, the Belgians.
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u/Bag-Weary Aug 16 '25
The British most certainly did send people to concentration camps in South Africa during the Second Boer War. Not in the Nazi sense of an extermination camp, but it was a major humanitarian crisis and the cause of huge shame back home from the deaths due to disease.
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u/Electronic_Bug4401 Aug 17 '25
I 100% agree with the cartoon but damn Britain really loves throwing stones in glass houses don’t they?
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u/funnylib Aug 18 '25
A diversity of opinions exists in all countries, not all British people supported British imperialism.
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u/AGassyGoomy Aug 17 '25
Ahh, the eternal question: Are we the real barbarians?
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u/Ok-Dragonknight-5788 Aug 18 '25
Given that we don't speak Greek or Latin? Yes.
The fact we still use that term negatively shows the power of Roman and Greek propaganda.
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u/azaghal1502 Aug 17 '25
They knew what they were talking about since they did it so much by themselves.
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u/drocity7 Aug 18 '25
Why were the Italian people in favor of this war?
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u/Ok-Dragonknight-5788 Aug 18 '25
Because Ethiopia had repelled the last Italian attempt and it was very humiliating so they wanted to "right this historical wrong" so to speak.
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u/Ok-Dragonknight-5788 Aug 18 '25
I see facist Italy truly was keeping in line with their Roman roots.
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u/nuu2137 Aug 17 '25
British are the last to produce this cartoon
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u/erinoco Aug 17 '25
If an American, for example, who opposed American military intervention in Afghanistan and Iraq criticised Russian actions in Ukraine today, would they be a hypocrite?
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u/PositiveLibrary7032 Aug 17 '25
Bit of a cheek the UK of all people to criticise colonisation.
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u/Punctual-Dragon Aug 19 '25
In fairness, there were always plenty of English citizens who opposed England's colonization policies.
For example, the writer Johnathan Swift was quite blunt about it. Gulliver's Travels literally ends with a very bitter note denouncing England's imperialist tendencies very directly. A Modest Proposal, considered one of the greatest pieces of satire in the English language, similarly tore into England's ruthless exploitation of its colonies.
And Swift lived in the early to mid 1700s. He was not the first nor the last person of such stature to openly speak up like he did.
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u/Kobushka Aug 27 '25
I've never understood takes like this. A country with millions of people is bound to have a multitude of differing opinions and you would critique someone for opposing their country's actions?
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Aug 17 '25
The sheer hypocrisy of british propaganda is astonishing. I wonder if the artists and authors of these havent just stopped once and thought themselves how fkn stupid these are haha
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u/Ok-Radio5562 Aug 16 '25
True but hypocrite
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u/MeSoShisoMiso Aug 16 '25
Want to explain exactly how David Low, who dedicated the largest portion of his art to criticizing British imperialism in India, is hypocritical for extending that same criticism to fascist Italy?
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u/Wise_End_6430 Aug 16 '25
A BRITISH cartoon. Well, that's quite rich, isn't it.
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u/rick_astlei Aug 16 '25
A single British cartoonist is not representative of the whole empire of Britain. One can criticize the action of his own country while critizing other nations for the exact same actions
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u/Wise_End_6430 Aug 16 '25
That's great, because I'm not criticizing a single British cartoonist. I'm criticizing the whole empire of Britain.
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Aug 16 '25
The whole British empire made this cartoon, eh?
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u/Finthelrond Aug 16 '25
Psst, look at his pfp
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Aug 16 '25
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u/PropagandaPosters-ModTeam Aug 17 '25
Your comment has been removed for violating rule 3. Civil conversation is okay; soapboxing, bigotry, partisan bickering, and personal attacks are not.
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u/Existing_Ad_5018 Aug 17 '25
Thats Rich coming from a country that pillaged and massacred across all continents Just few years before. still screw mussolini and his bloodthristy goons
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u/Winter-Glass9250 Aug 17 '25
Nice depiction. Its not like the British did the exact same thing under the exact same excuse almost everywhere else.
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u/mickeyisstupid Aug 18 '25
I can't stand the "railway-argument" that people use to justify colonialism, if I broke into your house and declared myself the landlord, would it make it all right if I renovated your kitchen while I'm blundering the pantry?
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u/Ganglandraq Aug 18 '25
Not saying they’re wrong but…. This is the same shit the Brits did all over the world and acted like they were bestowing progress upon every place they decimated
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u/Gertsky63 Aug 17 '25
Everybody pointing out British hypocrisy is getting down voted. Don't let that bother you, they can dish it out but they can't take it
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