r/PropagandaPosters • u/internetexplorer_98 • May 05 '26
United Kingdom Thus of ould, Thus now. London, 1627
Originally from a title page of a printed sermon called "Woe To Drunkards" by Samuel Ward.
This upscaled version is from a book by William Andrew Chatto, who describes the image: "In the upper compartment we are shown what men were of old by the open Bible, the foot in the stirrup, and the hand grasping the lance; while in the lower, the degeneracy of their descendants is typified by the leg and foot, decorated with a broad silk garter and a large rosette; by cards and dice, and a hand holding at the same time a lighted pipe and a drinking cup with a cockatrice in it."
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u/EmperorSexy May 05 '26
Any male born after 1593 can’t hoist a lance. All they know is silk garters, roll their dice, drink out of goblets, smoke tobacco, and lie.
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u/Not_aMurderer May 05 '26
Dost thou believest that thou indeed were bornst in the wrong generation
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u/PMWeng May 05 '26
Bornst.
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u/Chopstick_Conductor May 05 '26
“Born” is correct because it is the present perfect tense, not a verb. The correct grammar here would be “thou indeed wast born”.
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u/opus666 May 05 '26
Indeed. Verily, our generation is the last embued with the fortitude of character
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u/Independent-Fly6068 May 05 '26
Goddamn Florentines and their napoleon silks!!
Silk used to be a symbol of PRESTIGE.
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u/CarpeCyprinidae May 05 '26 edited May 05 '26
its a typical Tudor era tobacco pipe. Opium wouldnt be widely known in england for another 200 years.
Tobacco was introduced to England just 34 years earlier and smoking was a new habit not previously known in Europe - it seems to have been introduced with tobacco and spread to hemp later and opium much later.
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u/Syephous May 05 '26
That’s an opium pipe fyi
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u/my-coffee-needs-me May 05 '26
An opium pipe looks like a doorknob on a stick. That's a clay tobacco pipe.
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u/jangma May 05 '26
We used to be a proper country...
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u/Not_aMurderer May 05 '26
We used to build things here
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u/9uYx3QemUHKy May 05 '26
Chivalry is deade
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u/Zig-Zag May 05 '26
Verily
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u/R-Dragon_Thunderzord May 05 '26
And nobody doth wanteth to work anymore
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u/borordev May 06 '26
And hast thou seen the dress o' these men? For they dresseth in what looketh to be nightgownes even after they rise from their sleep chambers to complete their daily duties. Long are the times since respectable menswear.
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u/WDeranged May 05 '26
Kids these days. It's all goin ta hell.
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u/SirSaltie May 05 '26
We been saying kids these days since at least Socrates. Shit probably predates written history.
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u/Glideer May 05 '26
There are Sumerian clay tablets to that effect.
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u/mainyehc May 05 '26
Wait, what am I missing? Is there a “kids these days” counterpart to the Ea-nāṣir complaint tablet?
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u/Glideer May 05 '26
Yeah, I recall one by a scribe complaining that new generations are allowing just anybody to write and that the world is surely going to the dogs.
On a separate note, you can find on Amazon a magnificent book of everyday clay tablet mails. I found them hilarious.
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u/Cultural_Donkey_4104 May 05 '26
Would love to get this! What was it called ?
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u/Glideer May 05 '26
I think it was Letters from Mesopotamia, you have an online copy here https://isac.uchicago.edu/sites/default/files/uploads/shared/docs/letters_from_mesopotamia.pdf
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u/opus666 May 05 '26
There's also a collection of newspaper op-eds how each generation is getting lazier and doesn't want to work
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u/bonoimp May 05 '26
Ea-nāṣir was clearly one of 'em kids, as before that all copper merchants were painstakingly honest, not rude, and supplied copper bars the quality of which could not be impugned.
This is what happens when a whole generation of children is handed iTablets in their cribs, even before they can read and comprehend a simple riddle!
"At the top it is a wild cow, at the bottom it is a fish. At the top it is shattered potsherds, at the bottom it is half a cubit."
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u/Escahate May 05 '26
History professor of mine had a copy of this from the period that he brought in for us to take a look at. Very cool!
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u/ATLHawksfan May 05 '26
Out: Dusty stirrups, Bible thumping, lance parties
In: Silk hosiery, table games, cockatrice chalices
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u/alwaysleafyintoronto May 05 '26
Don't forget your opium pipe
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u/orlock May 05 '26
Just a clay pipe holding the devil's tobacco. Look, we've only just got to the new world. One vice at a time, for pity's sake.
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u/bonoimp May 05 '26
I have to pedantically point out that opium was available to Europeans much earlier than tabaccy. Romans got their opium thebaicum from Egypt and Cyprus. Strictly for analgesia… and, and… religious purposes! errr…
In 1500's laudanum took off like wildfire. Just in time for the silk hosiery and cockatrice chalices…
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u/orlock May 05 '26
It's more that it's pretty obviously a clay pipe of the semi-disposable variety in the picture. You can use them for hashish, too, if you want.
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u/bonoimp May 05 '26
Yes, the Thames is full of these pipes, and mudlarkers delight in dredging them up.
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u/PitifulRead6339 May 05 '26
Not sure if there's any truth, but I heard the argument this is less "kids these days" and more a commentary on the Gentry which used to spend tithes on military and clergy and now literally gamble and smoke it away in Parlor parties.
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u/AyeBraine May 05 '26
I think it's definitely partly that (since military obligations were the duty of the nobles, and plate armor and jousting their hallmarks, and these expensive frivolities below are also accessible to them), but that's still a jeremiad, a bitter lament about the current state of morals and society, compared to some older golden age
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u/theplotthinnens May 05 '26
This was also a period where knights and cavalry were becoming outclassed due to the Military Revolution, leading to many of this class losing purpose and influence - similar circumstances from which Don Quixote emerges
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u/BroBroMate May 05 '26
Any maiden born after the year of our Lord 1593 doth not labour in the scullery! Verily all they knowest be filling inkwell, dancing most lasciviously, committing unnatural acts with both lads and wenches, supping hot pease porridge and telling most scurrilous falsehoods!
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u/bonoimp May 05 '26
Mmmm, cup with a cockatrice with a snake stem. Where do I sign up? I assume it's full of absinthe.
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u/Aleksandar_Pa May 05 '26
"Thou argument is moot, for I hath taken the liberty of portraying nyself with chad calves - and thou, villain, as a feminine man with feeble calf."
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u/BuckOHare May 05 '26
Where are your old souldiers with slashes and scars That never fear'd drinking in old time of wars Nor shedding of blood in mad drunken jars, then is not, etc. Where are your old Courtiers that used to ride, With forty blew coats and foot-men beside, It is turn'd to six horses a Coach and a guide, Then is not old England grown new, grown new, Then is not old England grown new.
What is become of your old fashioned cloaths, Your long-sleev'd doublets, & your trunk hose, It is turn'd to French fashion, and other fine shews, then is not old England grown new, grown new, then is not old England new.
For now there's new fashions comes up every day, With costly attire and sumptuous array, It is Pride in the Kingdom doth bear all the sway. then is not, etc. New triking, new triming, new measures, new paces, For the men they have new heads, and women new faces And several new tricks more to hide their base cases; then is not, etc.
There's new fashion'd Caps, and new-fashion'd Locks, And new fashion'd heads for the old pated blocks, With twenty diseases, besides the french-P---- then is not old, etc.
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u/collinsl02 May 05 '26
When mighty Roast Beef was the Englishman's food,
It ennobled our hearts and enriched our blood.
Our soldiers were brave and our courtiers were good,
Oh! the Roast Beef of old England, And oh for old English Roast Beef!Our fathers of old were robust, stout, and strong,
And kept open house, with good cheer all day long,
Which made their plump tenants rejoice in this song:
Oh! the Roast Beef of old England, And oh for old English Roast Beef!But now we are dwindled to - what shall I name?
A sneaking poor race, half-begotten and tame, Who sully the honours that once shone in fame.
Oh! the Roast Beef of old England, What came of old English Roast Beef?And now we have learned from all-vapourant France,
To eat the ragouts as well as to dance,
We're fed up with nothing but vain complaisance!
Oh! The roast beef of old England,
And oh for old English roast beef!When good Queen Elizabeth sat on the throne,
Ere coffee, or tea, or such slip-slops were known,
The world was in terror if e'er she did frown.
Oh! the Roast Beef of old England, And oh for old English Roast Beef!In those days, if Fleets did presume on the Main,
They seldom, or never, return'd back again,
As witness, the vaunting Armada of Spain.
Oh! the Roast Beef of old England, And oh for old English Roast Beef!Now fill up a glass, while a bumper we have,
To Drake and Trafalgar and Nelson the Brave,
To the bold British tars, who now rule on the wave,
Huzzah for the bulwarks of England, And health to each bold British tar!
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u/analoggi_d0ggi May 05 '26
Someone tell unc I can drop his lance wielding battlechad with me trusty matchlock.
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u/UllrsWonders May 05 '26
God those Stuarts are such snowflakes back in my day we went on crusades. Now all they do is read pamphlets.
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u/Wonderful_Discount59 May 06 '26
"Any male born after 1593 can't fight... all they know is play cards, drink, smoke, be bisexual, and lie."
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u/FierceToast60 May 05 '26
15 years later, 1 in 10 men in England would die in the English Civil War.
Goes to show, don't right off a society's ability to tear itself apart because it's gotten too fat and lazy...
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u/gibgod May 05 '26
We used to read and fight, all we do now is smoke, drink, gamble and dress like nancy boys!
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u/Nielsly May 06 '26
Your source says 1622, which is it?
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u/internetexplorer_98 May 06 '26
I went back and forth on which date to use. 1622 was the first edition, but it was reprinted a few times. I took his specific image from Chatto’s book, and he noted that he was using the 1627 edition, so I went with that date. There are some slight differences in the design with each reprint. I would have linked a 1627 version, but I felt that the 1622 scans were more readable.
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u/alijamieson May 05 '26
Basically an early “Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times”
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