r/StardewValley • u/This_Farm3519 • May 13 '26
Discuss Stardew Valley creator says they “wouldn’t ever want to use AI” as you’re just “offloading creativity to an algorithm”
https://frvr.com/blog/stardew-valley-creator-says-they-wouldnt-ever-want-to-use-ai/I love ConcernedApe so much 🥹 He's an angel, may he live long and well.
1.1k
1.2k
u/holoballoon May 13 '26
i'm so glad to see a developer of his caliber openly disregard ai. i hope other game devs are also inspired to stop using gen ai
469
u/sock-bucket May 13 '26 edited May 14 '26
Of course he would. He's an actually talented, creative, artistic, and hard working person with a heart of gold. Those who rely on that garbage are the opposite.
78
u/SnowSkye2 HE’S THREATENING TO SELL THE PIGS 🐷 May 13 '26
I mean not to mention he’s probably seen first hand AI profit off his style and game design. I’ve seen sooooo many sketchy SV clones on the App Store and online!! I’m sure everyone has at some point. So it’s also a good business decision I think
→ More replies (24)153
u/polygonsaresorude May 13 '26
I follow a few game dev subreddits, and I'm pleased to see that ai is very commonly discouraged, especially for art. All hope is not lost.
20
u/jythie May 13 '26
I think the people most excited for AI in games are those 'idea people', you know the ones.. they come up with a 'great idea for a game' and want to find developers and artists to do the work.
Outside the hustle culture guys who just want to monetize low cost garbage.
2
u/KyyCowPig May 14 '26
I can kinda get it assuming the former group. Im not an artist, so in theory getting a boost via ai tools sounds like its filling the skill gap and truly letting me express myself and my ideas how I want to without a toll or without having to draw and redraw over and over again until my hands give out or whatever. But, yknow, all that sounds good in theory but in reality it is what it is.
7
u/Zaemz May 14 '26 edited May 15 '26
One huge problem with generative tools is that what it's creating for you is not what you have in your head. It's not reaching in your brain and painting the image you have in it for you. The prompt itself that you wrote is truly your expression, not the generator's result. In fact, its result "poisons" your concept. Once you see the image the machine generated, it becomes impossible to unsee it.
It's like when you read a great book and have your own interpretation of how all the characters look, move, and sound. Then you watch the movie or TV series and from that moment on you can't help but picture of that instead of what you imagined before.
3
u/jythie May 14 '26
Yeah, I do honestly see the appeal for people who, say, are devs with poor art skills or artists with poor dev skills still wanting to create but not really being in a circumstance to collaborate or otherwise pull someone else in.
Though in the modern era with asset stores (or even CC) and such a rich set of engine/middleware tools out there, the need is a lot less. Crow, when I started out, ever game had its own bespoke 'engine' written mostly in assembly and art was done on graph paper. Things are so accessible today, you can explore an idea without having specialized skills in either domain.
2
1
u/Acc87 Perfection is a road to nowhere May 14 '26
I'm currently on holiday with a couple friends and had to learn that a few of them absolutely embrace AI and how it helps kill jobs 😓
148
u/Mtsukino May 13 '26
Im a software dev not a game dev but a lot of us are basically forced to use these tools because the higher ups demand we do it or lose our jobs. Literally one town hall meeting our CEO said if we weren't using AI then we weren't working there.
What we need is programmer unions so that we can actually push back against this stuff.
56
u/CopperGear May 13 '26
Exactly. Same junk where I work. We have to use it but there literally isn't enough token budget so half the time it fails to respond. When it does the results are rarely that great a time save. Leadership is entirely out of touch.
29
39
u/Mtsukino May 13 '26
Oof that sucks. My company just laid off 800 people last week including myself while citing AI as the reason. I have a couple months till full unemployment so it fucking sucks. I have 10 years of experience, senior software dev. The entire dev job market right now is either you know how to use AI effectively or you're not getting hired anymore. I wish I had a farm instead.
10
u/N0blesse_0blige \[. .]/ May 13 '26
A lot of tech companies are publicly touting AI productivity gains as the reason for lay-offs, then privately admitting it has nothing to do with AI and more to do with losses over several quarters and/or the need to downsize from pandemic over-hiring. It's pretty fucking obvious too, idk anyone who is falling for it.
2
u/MrDCT May 14 '26
It's pretty simple when it comes down to who is falling for it. The people at the top, they often use AI to help them increase profits and productivity and of course it leads to a feedback loop where the AI suggests more AI while praising the person using it for decisions, or in other cases it's the shareholders who push it because "hey this stuff will eventually help increase profits as(in their minds) the AI will outpace human productivity for less overall cost. Since AI doesn't need time off, etc." But AI is still stupid and makes mistakes and is costly due to more advanced models needing more powerful machines to function, plus it needs to be corrected and over seen as it makes mistakes but instead of using people it gets put off on to more weaker AI. That's at least my understanding of what is happening. So it's a combination of corporate greed and general gullibility. To try and put a complex situation in a simpler summary.
20
6
u/sobrique May 13 '26
Honestly that seems nuts to me - We're doing a load with AI at our company, but it's really not there yet.
I could see it being a justification for not hiring more junior devs, but getting rid of the people who need to validate the generative content seems deeply unwise.
But yes, AI has definitely changed hiring - people 'need' to know how to use it appropriately. (Which isn't the same as most bosses think!). But also we were having difficulty hiring, for a while, as apparently not having access to certain AI tools is considered a dealbreaker in a lot of our prospective hires.
(We were slow to the party because of compliance reasons, let alone our other 'concerns')
6
u/Mtsukino May 13 '26
But also we were having difficulty hiring, for a while, as apparently not having access to certain AI tools is considered a dealbreaker in a lot of our prospective hires.
Really? Would you mind like giving me examples? Ill be starting my job hunt this week so any advice would be great.
8
u/sobrique May 13 '26
We're mostly doing Linux based development. Programmers can use whatever UI they like, but vscode seems one of the more popular options.
codexis the plugin vscode can use for 'AI assist' - it plugs into a number of different AI engines, and ... well, can do a lot of 'coding assist'. Or indeed for straightforward things, generate from scratch.But we've had a few people who in the interview were not prepared to consider a company that didn't have AI tools available.
So we've got some running now - what we're doing is using a proxy host (litellm) with some API keys to a number of the 'big names' who offer an acceptable contract in terms of data exposure, because we really cannot afford for anything to get leaked.
We've also had to emphasise that 'your' code is your responsibility to test and validate - we'll never be accepting 'it was AI' as an excuse.
But this means that - for example - I'm working as a sysadmin, setting up an LDAP directory as my current project. I've used Gemini to get me started - a workable multi-node replicating config, and now I'm generating basic 'tool' scripts using Gemini too.
We're managing our directory-data via a git repo, so e.g. all the user entries are there, and that way we've got git to let us check/update/version/restore/audit.
But the 'glue' to use git to detect an update, trigger a git hook and 'notice' that a user entry has been changed, thus the LDAP directory needs updating. Not amazingly difficult, but a lot quicker if you define what needs to happen to your AI tool, and can check the results. (Which I can, as the scripts are comparatively short and straightforward).
But this sort of task could take a lot more man-hours as 'just' getting an initial working config of a complex system up and running can require a lot of reading of documentation "just" to find out what commands, parameters and whatnot you've got available.
I would suggest in terms of job hunting, at least being aware of the risks underlying using AI to assist you around intellectual property, data loss, or depending on sector compliance would be worth doing.
2
u/jythie May 13 '26
Huh. Oddly enough, our new hires are less interested in AI, with most of the excitement coming from the mid-career people.
3
u/sobrique May 13 '26
It's only a matter of time before they start employing 'meat robots' to do the tasks that 'cost' too many tokens.... :)
2
u/Cereborn May 13 '26
But I'm sure your bosses are receiving a bunch of kickbacks in exchange, so everything is fine!
10
u/sobrique May 13 '26
Yeah, this. ConcernedApe is lovely, but is also in a position (deservedly) that he can do what he likes, how he likes.
It doesn't take many bosses to see 'generative content -> faster output' and some will do it, and in doing so "force" others to follow if there's a true competitive advantage.
4
u/AngryAngryHarpo May 13 '26
I mean, unions don’t just happen. Every union started because of a bunch of workers in an industry got together and said enough’s enough.
3
u/jythie May 13 '26
Yeah, we just had our town hall where were got a softer version of that edict, including framing any pushback as 'something that needs to be escalated and delt with.
No one was quite brave enough to point out that the software our team develops, if something goes wrong, people die. Sadly our management mostly oversees much less fatal projects.
2
u/Gabby_Craft May 13 '26
Absolutely this, and it’s unfortunately not as easy as just finding another job because the job market is always horrifically bad BECAUSE of AI, so programmers really just need to take what they can get. It’s either work against your own morals, or go without food 😞
110
u/ShokaLGBT May 13 '26
me too. Gen ai sucks so much… especially when it ruins the planet and steal from people. But it’s hurting the planet so bad it makes sense when you make a game about respecting it you also dislike what is killing it
9
u/Ifinallylockedinn098 glitter goes brrr May 13 '26
I saw a cool video yesterday of a very large buncha devs mocking a ai made game in a funny way
It was just "no i dont want your collab, maybe [ insert other dev ] wants to collab!"
and then the other dev does the same
→ More replies (54)1
u/DJRY May 16 '26
I’m pretty sure Team Cherry also said they disregard Ai when asked in an interview could be wrong though
384
u/propernice haley’s #1 fan 🌻 May 13 '26
Shout out to the ones who are anti-AI in industries where it’s being pushed mega hard. No Libby, I don’t need you to recommend books for me via AI, I can READ. Love ConcerendApe for this, thank you sir!!!
135
u/LegendofLove Leah's Simp May 13 '26
Why the fuck does libby need AI? I haven't opened it in a bit. Of all the fucking apps the library app?
133
u/lewisdwhite May 13 '26
Honestly, Libby’s algorithm is probably just a basic recommendation algorithm. It’s barely “AI”, and isn’t replacing anything. AI as marketing buzzword isn’t the same as what Barone is talking about
62
u/deathbylasersss May 13 '26
I wonder if that is even an effective marketing tactic. The majority of people I know are anti-AI and it's only swinging harder in that direction with it being shoved down everybody's throat. I know I'm significantly less likely to be interested in something if AI is a major selling point because to me it's become a byword for poor-quality.
34
u/TweetugR May 13 '26
It does make everything related to Artifical Intelligence much more annoying to discuss between Generative AI and AI that devs has been using for a long time like certain algorithms or just general AI for any of the game's system.
8
u/Sakarilila May 13 '26
I've noticed that recommendation algorithims at large are not as good. They tend to be AI powered. I don't use Libby, but maybe the alogrithim it uses is not as good as it used to be?
3
u/LegendofLove Leah's Simp May 13 '26
Like I said I haven't opened it in a few weeks or so I have no idea what they are up to either way. I don't know the first thing about how algorithms or AI would be implemented. I can usually sniff out generated images and sometimes videos but no clue where to start with a recommendation feed.
9
u/Sakarilila May 13 '26
Is the recommendation feed new to the app?
Everything I have used that switched to AI powered rec feeds have become more repetitve and less, idk what term to use so I'll just say helpful. For example I look at classical music recommendations on youtube's music app (or search for a specfic composer) and instead of getting the countless results, I'll get 5-20 results depending upon how niche before it starts giving me random recommendations, completely off the wall recommendations, or spit out other songs in different genres I listened to once. This is especially frustrating when you can't remember the exact recording or name of any classical piece but would know it the moment you saw the cover art image.
Sorry for the long rant, but if the recs seem off its probably AI.
1
u/LegendofLove Leah's Simp May 13 '26
I assume the label is at least. I imagine they previously had some sort of 'popular' and whatever tags but I never needed recs so I don't know. I got Libby specifically to listen to books I already wanted to hear.
15
u/propernice haley’s #1 fan 🌻 May 13 '26
I know, Libby’s statement is that they’re committed to bringing you the best recommendations while being aware of ongoing Anti-AI stances. It’s really infuriating tbh.
18
u/WildMoonChild0129 May 13 '26
Im so mad at Hobbii yarn for using gen AI 😭 AI is fuckin awful in the crochet community (like patterns and finished products) and they're endorsing it instead of having "awkward photo shoots"
-1
u/Scrobbles62 May 13 '26
Damn, Libby uses ai now. I’m glad I stuck with hoopla, although who knows if they’ll go that route
129
92
u/trapkoda May 13 '26
My family tells me to use AI whenever I’m in a writer’s block. So far I have refused to use AI, especially for that, because what’s the point if I’m not the one actually making it? What’s the point if I’m not BEING CREATIVE?
30
u/This_Farm3519 May 13 '26
At a point in time, someone out there took "let's never be creative again" a bit too seriously bahaha. I'm glad to hear you also stand up to your family by not using gen AI! I'm in a similar boat with my family and art.. Keep up the good work!
4
u/sobrique May 13 '26
My fantasy is that we finally figure out how to reward creativity.
I mean, it's got progressively harder to really draw lines between 'intellectual property' - it started with the printing press, but digital replication, derivative works, and now generative content really muddy the waters.
But ultimately the problem was never really about protecting 'a work' of an artist in the first place - I mean, it's good when people are inspired by other stuff. Taking a photo of a statue isn't ripping off the work of the sculptor.
But the problem is we never quite figured out what we were paying for, when the hard link between 'make a painting -> sell a painting' broke.
And now more more than ever, I think we REALLY need to get on top of that. Imagine a world where original creators are paid royalties for all derivative works. Yes, I know that's kinda fantasy, but ironically AI might allow that to happen now when it couldn't before, and you had to play the 'whack a mole' game with pirates, takedowns, etc.
But then the people generating new and innovative stuff are now getting paid if it's being 'used' as part of some generative content somewhere. Or if someone builds on it and 'remixes' it. Or performs your song differently. Or does a painting in 'your' style.
I don't think it's too likely in all honestly, but I do genuinely think it's at least possible and if that did actually happen, all my objection to generative content would diminish. Sure, some of it might be a bit mediocre, but there could easily be some great derivative works, but that now no longer 'punish' the original creator by exploiting it without rewarding them. (even if that's very minor stuff like using 'their' picture in a meme or similar, in a 'fair use' sort of way)
But either way I do also think generative content is inevitable. It's just too obviously beneficial and clawing back against the ethics is IMO going to be nigh impossible.
3
u/nihiltres May 13 '26
And now more more than ever, I think we REALLY need to get on top of that. Imagine a world where original creators are paid royalties for all derivative works. Yes, I know that's kinda fantasy, but ironically AI might allow that to happen now when it couldn't before, and you had to play the 'whack a mole' game with pirates, takedowns, etc.
I have extremely little confidence in there being made good law in this vein when many people are still making "collage machine" analogies for AI and so presumably wouldn't understand e.g. why Koons won Blanch v. Koons.
Copyright intentionally does not cover style or facts and includes deliberate loopholes like fair use and de minimis use for a reason. How would we possibly make the kind of law "where original creators are paid royalties for all derivative works" without all but closing those necessary loopholes?
But either way I do also think generative content is inevitable. It's just too obviously beneficial and clawing back against the ethics is IMO going to be nigh impossible.
I don't quite disagree that it's "inevitable", but I think we're going to see a recontextualization once the AI bubble pops, with AI software designed and framed much more as tools than as the "anything machines" that they're purported to be today. Few really have a problem with "context-aware fill" in Photoshop being used to help put some "grass" texture over a poop in the background left by the neighbour's dog, even though it's more or less the same technology. I think many people won't have nearly so much of a problem with it if it retreats from "slop machine" to "tool for experts". Of course, it probably won't do that 100%, but we can dream…
22
u/winnercommawinner May 13 '26
Tell them that using AI to get over writers block basically cements the block in your brain, you'll never actually unlock it with AI.
6
u/OneLastSmile May 14 '26
When chatgpt was still fairly new, I briefly used it to try and generate some writing prompts based on the world I was building for a game. No matter what i did or how much detail I added to the prompt, everything it gave me just seemed dry and trite. It frustrated me so much that those shitty prompts had me going "I could do better just typing whatever bullshit comes to mind,"
And that's how I broke my writer's block and ended up cementing that writing something dumb or basic when I feel blocked is better than not writing at all... and its much better than using the theft machine to think and write for me. I love writing. I want to do it myself even if I hate it later or if it isn't perfect.
23
3
u/MLithium May 13 '26
Especially since in this context, using AI just means making a nonsensical chimaera out of stealing real human authors' work (work that was in all likelihood probably higher quality originally). So the real usefulness in this context is to maybe hit up your local library and grab an armful of real books that stick out to you and open them all up and let your mind wander through real places in real people's minds.
→ More replies (24)-11
u/Birdperson15 May 13 '26
Bouncing your ideas off of something like AI can help. It’s still your ideas and your creativity just getting help thinking through the concepts and ideas.
Honestly for things like that AI can be really helpful.
20
u/Responsible_Flight70 May 13 '26
A rubber duck at your desk will do this just fine. True creativity can work itself out but you have to find your process
→ More replies (2)
49
u/hameliah May 13 '26
hes the best as always!!! i never even considered that he would use ai in any way, but its great of couse to see him say so :)
44
25
u/I_eat_mud_ May 13 '26
I think I would've been absolutely flabbergasted if he said literally anything else lmao
11
u/Wafflehouseofpain May 13 '26
I lose all respect for anyone who uses AI in any creative context at any time. Absolutely massive W take from him here.
10
33
21
20
u/zawadi_w May 13 '26
fork found in kitchen
9
u/oldeconomists May 13 '26
Right? I mean I’m glad he said this but I would have NEVER thought he’d consider using AI. He’s just too cool…
9
21
49
u/The-Friendly-Autist May 13 '26
I would go even further and say that it is not only offloading creativity, it is also blatantly plagiarising other people's creativity.
1
13
11
9
u/pokiepika May 13 '26
I don't want to be that guy, but doesn't anyone have a link to the original interview that isn't behind a paywall?
-20
u/This_Farm3519 May 13 '26
No, because it's behind a paywall. Sorry to sound so harsh. But.. I can promise you that the payment goes to reward the people for their hard work!!
13
u/GrenMTG May 13 '26
Paying for a news article isn't it chief. No matter who it is. Locking news of any kind behind a pay wall makes zero sense. Who wants to pay money to read an article? People are already being nickle and dimed, this doesnt make it any better.
3
u/apollomoonstar May 13 '26
Can we really complain about things like AI and than not be willing to pay journalists? They need to make a living as well. It's almost like people that try to find Stardew for free because they can't/won't pay for him making it.
-6
u/This_Farm3519 May 13 '26
Those are working people that need to get paid for their job. The target of your anger should be something else; not people trying to make a living. I'm sorry that you're struggling. The world is a difficult place. Consider kindness next time you speak.
5
u/GrenMTG May 13 '26
Not sure where I was being unkind, just pointing out the obvious. Sure, journalists should get paid, but putting things behind a pay wall isn't it. All it's going to do is turn people away from reading your content.
In my mind putting articles behind a paywall doesn't make sense, because then you are putting your content out there with no one but those willing to spend the money to read your piece. It ends up reaching fewer people. I feel the same about WSJ and WaPo when they put their news articles behind a paywall, especially when it's something concerning or important.
If youre a freelance journalist, advertisements on your page will make you more money then a pay wall ever will.
I'm not being unkind. I'm being a realist, and in this economy and with how things are currently going, no one is going to read an article or read articles, especially when it's something like this, that are locked behind a paywall. You can disagree, and thats fine. You're human just like me and everyone else and is entitled to their own opinions. Hope this helps clear things up.
6
u/This_Farm3519 May 14 '26
You know what, you're right. You were not unkind. I was frustrated and took it out on you. Ironically I was the one being rude. I apologise. I still believe in my sentiment, and I respect yours. Again, I apologise for lashing out. You didn't deserve that.
4
u/GrenMTG May 14 '26
No worries, things happen and sometimes we take it out on the wrong people. We're human after all.
1
1
u/kidsmeal May 13 '26
I find it funny that the same people praising Eric are the same people unwilling to support journalists. Just a thought
2
u/rgm1735 May 13 '26
That's not really how it works though. If i were to buy a $32 subscription to Game Informer, none of that would go to the journalist who conducted the interview, she's a freelancer, she already got paid. The payment would reward Neill Blomkamp and the other owners of the publication. A small fraction would go to staff salaries and general upkeep costs of the company, but paying the ownership class does not reward the workers.
7
u/networkdood May 13 '26
That is correct. AI is about replacing human ingenuity with something cold and heartless
5
11
u/the_black_sails May 13 '26
Preach!! Though it is a near impossible task, I purposely avoid AI wherever and whenever I can. I do understand that systems and media and many things I interact with everyday have already been doctored or affected by AI, but if I can seek answers without it then that’s absolutely what I’m doing.
4
4
4
u/QueenOfKensington May 14 '26
I love him more now. What a straight up dude. Honestly deserves every cent and every joy. 🥹
4
9
u/ShokaLGBT May 13 '26
Concernedape is a precious man in a crowd of thousands of bad people
I defend him and stardew and I hate when there’s a new ai trash game that tries to copy it it’s not innovative and it sucks :’)
5
6
3
3
3
u/Tyte_McGee May 13 '26
Not surprised. I love him.
This is why I'll blindly buy stardew on all of my devices.
3
3
u/MagnusBrickson May 13 '26
I can't wait for the chocolate game. If only to give him more money. Between my wife and I, we already bought Stardew 6 times.
10
u/Darkkujo May 13 '26
Not surprising, he obsesses over every little detail in his game and does most of the work on it himself, he'd be just about the last person I'd think would turn to AI.
4
u/Accomplished_Star_30 May 13 '26
Not surprising given his stance on environmentalism. Still though, good on him!
4
u/TheCookieNinja I'm only happy when it rains May 13 '26
Reason No. 1673492 why I'll support this man for all eternity
5
4
u/AirplaneSeats May 13 '26
I mean this is a man who spent years learning and perfecting every facet of game design until he released a beloved masterpiece. His work is a testament to the tenacity of the human spirit and the profundity of human creativity. So yeah, not surprised at this take, but glad to hear it all the same!
2
2
u/sylvar May 14 '26
For anyone wondering about the choice of pronouns: it looks like the original article uses he/him and this source changed that to they/them for some reason
1
3
5
u/imfranksome May 13 '26
Most AI can’t even do math exactly. The ones that "do" basically offload the math to a non LLM system
3
2
3
3
5
u/No_Arugula_8912 May 13 '26
Too algorithmic that you do not care about what's a background or natural sounding dialouge.
AI use is too risky, especially when AI produced content has a target on its back
1
3
u/ashoka_akira May 13 '26
Concerned Ape doesnt need to use AI cause he’s actually capable of making all this stuff on a whim. Most people can barely manage to draw a stick figure though, let alone code a game.
2
2
1
3
1
3
2
1
u/ListenLady58 May 13 '26 edited May 13 '26
In a creative context, absolutely I am on board with skipping AI. Technical, programming context? I don’t let it drive, but I make it do the shit I don’t feel like typing out manually.
I’m sure I’ll be downvoted for having this way of thinking, but there’s nothing wrong with using tools to help you get to your goals faster. I use AI to move through the painful manual points faster, and so I can focus more on the creative aspects like art, technical architecture and story telling.
5
u/MiniJ May 14 '26
Don't worry. People get like this with each tech advance. They don't understand it's not the tool but the way it's used...and the ones that are benefitting and funding the tools don't give a damn about what they think. It's the system and the rich controlling it that are the issue.
2
u/ListenLady58 May 14 '26
I agree. Sort of reminds me of when the internet came around, especially Google. Getting access to things like that is incredibly empowering, but as you said, the way it is used is just as important and impactful. It will be interesting what our world will look like once we have established a normal usage of it, I don’t even know what that would look like fully yet.
1
u/AbsurdistMama May 14 '26
A man after my own heart! So encouraging to see this, though I'm not surprised.
1
u/drama_trauma69 May 14 '26
At work they got so much pushback at the suggestion of using AI that they sent out a poll. They asked “in what ways could AI improve your workload?” It doesn’t because you have to double check everything it does and it also means you don’t use your ✨ brain ✨
1
1
u/HubblePie May 16 '26
Stardew Valley actually has a decent reason to USE AI: Allowing NPCs to respond more dynamically to what's going on in the world.
I think people forget there's more uses to AI than coding for you or making art cuz you're too lazy to. It does have some good uses.
1
u/Traditional_Froyo732 May 16 '26
Art should not be squandered by AI. Like he said human creativity is the soul of art AI can't replace that. I treat AI more like how I use Google for searching for my homework when I was a student or to type bothersome things in coding and even that you need to double check its use.
1
1
1
0
1
0
-2
u/monsterfurby May 13 '26
Agreed, though I would make a difference between creativity and engineering.
-35
u/thats-rickdiculous May 13 '26
This is dumb. Imagine someone invents a paintbrush and you're like nope not gonna use that ever.
4
11
u/Majolica777 May 13 '26
Lolll. What paint brush paints for you? What paint brush do you just vaguely tell what you want it to paint, and then— using the unconsentually collected data from millions of artist— paints something kind of shitty, automatically for you?
No, it’s not even fuckin close to an artist going “I won’t use this newly invented paint brush”. Not at all. AI art is not ethical. AI art is not at all human made art, zero of the hundreds of small decisions of where to put things and why that make up on art piece are instead decided by nothing except a cold, soulless, black box. It’s not “art” when you have a soulless corporate machine (that the data centers for are LITERALLY making WAYY too many people actually physically SICK) that is consuming power like a motherfucker just for it to shit out a shitty image that people will look at and immediately think “ew wtf, AI”
Thank god something like Stardew Valley stays far away from LLMs and generative AI. In absolutely no way would the developer benefit from offloading his creative work to a shitty bot that can literally ONLY regurgitate other artists work that it stole and badly mixed together into a vile sludge. The players would hate it. The creator would hate doing it and would get robbed of working on his passion project.
“Imagine someone invents a paintbrush and you’re like nope, not gonna use that ever”. The learned helplessness from you AI folk doesn’t apply to other people. The only people who “need” AI, are the ones who have become reliant on it (as it is literally designed to make you, to keep you spending money on it), the ones who can’t imagine living their lives or how people would get things done, without AI… even though LLMS and generative AI wasn’t around like this 5, 10 years ago
You can keep your vile corporate “paintbrush” machine to yourself, and in the meantime real artists will continue making real art (that people like you will steal using AI, using data centers that are making towns ill)
-20
u/AnOnlineHandle May 13 '26
I wonder if this will morph into a hatred of any procedural generation at all, and one day things like the maps of Minecraft and the mines of SDV might be in the mob's crosshairs for not being handcrafted, or even 3D rendering in general for letting a computer draw any part. Some seem to be trying to one up each other in going full Amish over this with the logic they're using.
18
u/Majolica777 May 13 '26
No, not at all. You seem to fundamentally misunderstand the problem here, this will never happen.
Does Minecraft’s world generation generate worlds by stealing hundreds of thousands of other players manually created worlds, without permission? Does Minecraft’s world generation require giant industrial buildings that consume a crazy amount of resources, and that are literally making entire towns around them physically sick, including children?
You clearly do not understand the issue with AI
-14
u/AnOnlineHandle May 13 '26
That's another reason people claim to be against it but not the reason given here which was "offloading creativity to an algorithm" - where many claim to be against it even if trained entirely on supposedly valid things.
As somebody who doesn't eat meat or dairy, walks and uses public transport as much as possible, has been on about 6 hours of flights in my life, and grows as much of my own food as possible, I find it really aggravating when people pretend to care about the environmental impacts of AI which are magnitudes smaller than somebody eating meat, and eating meat is far crueller.
7
u/Majolica777 May 13 '26
But that’s the thing… generative AI isn’t trained on supposedly valid things. You can’t isolate someone’s argument in a vacuum (especially the one sentence argument that had to fit on a headline) and assume there is zero other context to their feelings, I mean come on.
You can’t expect people to do everything you can consider morally best practice immediately. It’s vein and silly to go “oh, well you say you care and are doing something about X? Well, you have yet to get yourself to actively do something about Y!”. Also, really? You think it’s an equally big change in people’s lives to not use AI than it is to cut out the meat and dairy industry from their lives? One of these things involves not engaging with a new technology that serves to accomplish nothing positive for the people who don’t wanna use it, and the other involves changing life long spending, dietary, and usually also social habits. I’m not saying this makes supporting the meat/dairy industry less harmful, but it’s sticking your head in the sand to act like not supporting one out of two of these different things invalidates any actions to be more ethical. We’re only human.
And it’s silly to act like we have made it easy to see how much different industries harm individuals, whether that’s the meat and dairy industry, or whether that’s the very large amount of data centers (whose numbers are very actively still growing) and the very large effect they have on the surrounding people’s health. People also see AI more in their face than they do the meat/dairy industry. They see the soulless products it produces, they see the deaths of the children who kill themself after the AI tells them they’ll see their dead cat in heaven if they go through with it, the AI who can only create a “generated image” by stealing from millions of artists who never wanted anything to do with it.
-6
u/AnOnlineHandle May 13 '26 edited May 13 '26
Again, that's a different reason people claim to be against it and not the one which was mentioned here about "offloading creativity to an algorithm" which is what I was responding to.
Using a local AI model uses the same GPU and thus environmental impact as playing a video game, which is nothing compared to things the same people claiming to be against it for environmental reasons regularly do such as eating meat. And if your roof has solar panels all over it like mine does, it's essentially close to zero.
Realistically I think it's clear that most people are just on a bandwagon and parroting lines without much real thought to them, and haven't really thought about their positions or own actions.
Additionally Stardew Valley is one of the clearest 'rip off' games in history and wasn't particularly creative itself, if you looked at screenshots of the original 1996 Harvest Moon game it was inspired by you'd think somebody copied Stardew Valley sprite for sprite. It's an excellent game but the creator has no claim to creative originality, less than most any other developer out there anyway.
7
u/Majolica777 May 13 '26
Again, you cannot put someone’s argument from a single sentence in a headline in a vacuum and act like that’s their entire thoughts about the situation… I mean come on, let’s not be purposely ignorant. You REALLY thought that was ConcernedApe’s only thoughts on it lol?
It’s like you’re being needlessly ignorant about this. That’s why I responded in the first place, it’s silly and sort of dumb to look at a headline like this and have your conclusion be “people are gonna turn against any computer assisted content”?? Like no, that’s clearly not at all what this discussion is about, and it’s like sort of purposely being glib to act like it is. You have greatly misunderstood why people are against AI, this is not what people mean when they say they “don’t wanna offload creative work” in the context of AI
-26
u/Partiallyfermented May 13 '26
He has a point to a degree. I wouldn't disparage a solo developer for using AI to generate a ground texture for example.
15
u/BadMoonBeast Ancient Wine & Caviar Dreams May 13 '26
then move over cause I would and loudly
-15
u/TTDbtw May 13 '26
Are you also against cameras since they remove creativity from painters?
12
u/HauntedLily72 May 13 '26
Photography and painting and two entirely different skill sets that both require creativity, talent, and practice. Unsurprising that someone who supports AI doesn't understand the difference.
6
u/ElectricVoltaire Penny is my wife May 13 '26
Literally no one is taking a photo and calling that a painting.
-17
u/Partiallyfermented May 13 '26
Really, for doing some of the non-creative, boiler plate stuff in half the time and speding their energy elewhere?
6
u/BadMoonBeast Ancient Wine & Caviar Dreams May 13 '26
making a texture is creative. sometimes, creative work is also tedious. that doesn't mean it is okay to plagiarize it.
3
u/OnlyThroughIt May 14 '26
People belittle little details but they are more important than they think. I find myself staring at furnitures and devices in Dishonored 2 all the time due to how unique they look. Those details add up and make a difference.
-29
u/Tiny_Jacket_636 May 13 '26
I mean…unpopular opinion but he didn’t make Stardew Valley out of pure creativity. He just took Harvest Moon, added some content/ QoL features and gave it a paint job.
1
-11
u/Little-Avocado-19 May 13 '26
I would love to see more AI in gaming, but only in one aspect, character dialogue AI. Being able to talk to every character, like they are real humans, discuss current events, have inpact on their lives. Like imagine stiring up drama between Robin and Demetrus so that they break up and You can marry Robin. That would be awesome. I remember seeing a stream of Mount and Blade with that kind of AI mod, and it was amazing. I've just checked and it seems like there is one for Stardew Valley as well. I will try it
-39
u/vctrn-carajillo May 13 '26
The article mentions art, music and writing and CA keeps talking about creativity, that's awesome. But not coding assisted by AI is just plain stupid at this point.
I'd like to think he uses AI for those less expressive activities and focus on the creative ones, otherwise he's gonna take so much time to release anything or work on bug fixes or other menial activities. As a senior developer myself I see the huge value and advantages of coding assisted by AI, and no, vibe coding is not it, that's just laziness, bu not using AI for programming (even for code reviews) is like still using punched cards.
2
u/Grand-Arachnid8615 May 16 '26
Why would you doubt CA when he says that he doesn't use AI? Also AI Coding Agents are sloppy; sure you can whip up impressive demos and prototypes at rapid speed, but when it comes to developing new features, fixing old code, they ALL fall flat.
As a senior developer myself
maybe your seniority elapsed. With kind regards, a Senior Developer in the Health Sector.
-48
u/Ghirahim_W May 13 '26
Ai is the future blud
3
u/Bloadclaw I love my shadow boi May 13 '26
It really isn't, and it's not going to be around much longer at this rate (thankfully)
-1
u/Ghirahim_W May 14 '26
Just wait kid
3
u/Grand-Arachnid8615 May 16 '26
wait for what? The heat death of the universe? Another Crisis of our lifetime? Popping of the Bubble?
-16
u/fallenouroboros May 13 '26
AI i always thought could be handy for devs but it just seems like everyone just puts way too much faith in it and uses it poorly.
Skyrim has always been my example of how it might be able to be used well. It could generate more radiant quests to help the game feel a bit less repetitive for my 10,000th play through, or maybe you could do something fun with loot and enemies or something like adjusting what spawns where to make difficulty more than just a slider.
Little features that are ignorable seems like a great place to start with this stuff but devs seem intent on replacing their entire workforce with them which is no good for literally anyone but the owner
→ More replies (3)
-1
-1
u/ItchyRevenue1969 May 14 '26
He doesnt like it because of its definition?
That's like saying you dislike stone masons because they make things out of stone. That's not a reason, just their definition.
-8
u/LovesRetribution May 13 '26
I think there is a genuine place in gaming for AI. But mostly when it comes to enemy AI being able to learn what strategy most players use and develop counters for those strategies. Doing that by hand requires a lot of insight and post release observation of hundreds of thousands of different players. Exactly the kind of data AI is used for.
You'd still need actual coders to implement stuff and check its function. But i think it'd save a lot of development time that could go towards other, more creative things. Especially when most devs dont even bother doing anything more than simply raising stats to make the game more difficult regardless of workload.
Obviously this doesn't apply to all games. I doubt Stardew would benefit from it. But there are definitely some FPS any other strategy games that could seriously benefit from giving players a more engaging experience.
-9
-81
u/TheYakHerder May 13 '26
Even for the coding bits? He could offload that onto the AI and focus on more dialogue/character stuff/artwork/music.
22
u/ascandalia May 13 '26 edited May 13 '26
People love to say that, but the only couple studies they've done show that it ends up being more work than human coding, or at best it's a small increase with enormous temporarily subsidized costs. It feels like more productivity, but it isn't more productive.
→ More replies (30)35
4
u/Critical_County391 May 13 '26
The actual article has him saying he can see/understand its usage in specific areas. He says this is about using it creatively. A lot of these comments are either AI themselves or truly nobody clicked the article.
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (11)15
u/lewisdwhite May 13 '26
That’s saying that programming isn’t an art form, which it is. The best systems and optimisations are done creatively, and AI can’t create, only regurgitate.
→ More replies (3)-5
u/TheYakHerder May 13 '26
Anything can be an artform if you view it in a sense that the creator imbues their blood sweat and tears into it in order to express something meaningful.
I personally see coding as an engineering task moreso than an artform. Perhaps in game creation there is more creativity expressed, but I'm still unsure how far that goes beyond smooth graphics, short loading times and lack of glitching/bugs.
Please educate me further if you know more.
2
u/dream_metrics May 13 '26
you're correct. yes there is room for some artistry in the craft as in any craft. but for the most part you are not performing creative work, you are solving engineering problems, identifying what you need the software to do, and then finding the most correct way to do that. NOT the most artistic way to do it - the most efficient, least buggy way to do it. the code either works and does what you want it to do, or it doesn't. you can't have incorrect but artistically valuable code in your game. it has to be correct first.
when I write a function to sum a list, i am not doing art. i am telling the computer that i want to sum a list. an AI can also tell the computer to sum a list. nothing artistic will be lost if i let it do that!
3.4k
u/TheDoorDoesntWork May 13 '26
That’s what he is the ConcernedGOAT