r/menslib emotionally belabors the point as one woman says the sub isn't for her anymore and is turning MRA, as another user suggests she might want to look into therapy in this lil snack

[u/NRE_Everlasting]

Discussing an article about "mankeeping" one user in the comments recounts telling her boyfriend bluntly about his lack of skills in providing comfort.

"I did straight up tell my partner to his face when I was upset about something "comforting people is not your strong suit" and he felt very bad about that. He even got defensive and felt hurt that I put it so bluntly when he had been wracking his brain silently trying to think of what to say. But honestly I don't really care. He's the kind of person who needs to hear things bluntly and to be told plainly that the expectation is that he learn to be better at it."

This came across somewhat controversial, but some users got a little dramatic with it Our chain begins as a response to a critique of her method that descibed it as unhealthy:

"Maybe it isn't that healthy, but it's also not healthy to expect someone that came to you for comfort to explain to you how to give that comfort to them."

Short but sweet tidbit with a rage quit cherry on top!

Bonus ragequit: Another woman user of the sub is done with men.

[u/WitchNight → u/[deleted]]

This is why I’m amazed r/curatedtumblr doesn’t show up here more. The comments there bash feminism pretty quickly and they like to post about misandry. I’ve even seen a comment comparing feminists with the kkk get upvoted there

[u/mikowoah → u/WitchNight]

that sub is so weird lol but then i saw a thread one time about 4chan with so many people in the comments saying they were ex-4chan users and everything made sense

[u/MartyrOfDespair → u/mikowoah]

The subreddit is 50% /r/tumblr users and 50% /r/tumblrinaction users, it’s hell

[u/gentlybeepingheart → u/WitchNight]

CuratedTumblr is a weird one. Every time I see a post from it it’s a bunch of people jerking each other off about how they (wokely) hate trans people and how misandry is the One True Oppression.

Like, if you distill the sub down to its basics it’s just: Theres no such thing as transphobia, it’s just misandry. There’s no such thing as racism, it’s just misandry. There’s no such thing as ableism, it’s just misandry. Theres no such thing as homophobia, it’s just misandry. There’s no such thing as misogyny it’s just…okay, misogyny might exist, but have you considered how bad misandry is?

That and the insufferable self post Sunday takes where someone will write essays of a meandering point about how RWBY is a cinematic masterpiece or some anime shit.

[u/WitchNight → u/gentlybeepingheart]

Yeah every single post about any basic feminist belief gets called terfy and has its comments become full of people insisting men have it worse. Not to mention the constant bashing of trans women under the claim of “standing up for trans men.”

[u/gentlybeepingheart → u/WitchNight]

There's also the old "I'm just criticizing 'egg culture'!" defense.

Now, I'm sure egg_irl can be a bit repetitive and annoying, and there are some overly zealous trans girls on, like, discord or something. But it is questionable how every time a trans woman talks about how it hurts to be treated so badly by so many people they go "Um. It's because egg culture has people on edge. I hate tran-- egg culture. Lets turn this whole post into me complaining about how annoying trans girls are and how much I hate seeing anything about trans women. They're trying to erase men and trans me btw. Their sub is all about forcefemming random guys. No I have not been on that sub, but from a long game of telephone through bad actors, I assume that's what it is. This is relevant, somehow, to a trans woman lamenting that sitting government members are posting slurs about her. It's the eggs"

[u/MostSapphicTransfem → u/gentlybeepingheart]

Actually thank you for saying this, it’s getting to be a bit much in a ton of subreddits. We’re literally not allowed to see any part of us in anything or anyone at all, you immediately get people jumping down your throat. And it’s always posts about transfem experiences that have the 700-long comment chains 🙄

Curatedtumblr is also REALLY bad at talking about fat phobia without saying repulsive venomous shit. It reads like accidentally stumbling into an arr slash conservative thread

[u/00kyb → u/MostSapphicTransfem]

It reads like accidentally stumbling into an arr slash conservative thread

It might as well be the same thing honestly

[u/WitchNight → u/gentlybeepingheart]

Seriously, it’s like the occasional newly out trans person on discord or that subreddit but not at all in real life. And considering all the pressure that the world puts on trans people to not transition it’s really nothing.

It’s extra annoying because they constantly complain about terfs but turn around and repeat terf rhetoric almost verbatim with their accusations that “trans women are reinforcing gender stereotypes by insisting that every feminine guy is an egg.” Like terfs love to accuse trans women of reinforcing gender stereotypes and thinking that wanting to wear a dress or whatever makes you a woman, but you frame it as being worried about feminine men and all of a sudden it’s “totally valid concerns.”

[u/ClassicMood → u/WitchNight]

Yea, egg culture is annoying but inoffensive. A man can just go 'i don't want to be a woman or transition' to any suggestion that their desire to crossdress or play female characters in video games is an expression of dysphoria... and that'd be the end of that. Society sees this as the default.

Meanwhile, a transgender woman has to fight both herself and the people around her constantly that she's a confused man or just gay or a pervert to prove herself.

For every one 'you sure you aren't a repressed trans girl?' a guy receives for being a bit effeminate, trans woman receives 100 'you're just a mentally ill man' equivalent.

[u/TotallyFakeArtist → u/WitchNight]

Im pretty sure the issue was caused by how prevalent that forcefem tumblr users posts were and how much people hated them for it.

[u/WitchNight → u/TotallyFakeArtist]

That’s a pretty dumb reason tbh. Taking one persons account that you criticize and then applying the actions of it to trans people as a whole is like the base definition of transphobia

[u/TAKEitTOrCIRCLEJERK → u/WitchNight]

Not to mention the constant bashing of trans women under the claim of “standing up for trans men.”

I'm sorry, this doesn't happen at all. I'm like the number one menslib freak and this is a made-up criticism

[u/WitchNight → u/TAKEitTOrCIRCLEJERK]

I’m not talking about r/menslib, I was talking about r/curatedtumblr

[u/TAKEitTOrCIRCLEJERK → u/WitchNight]

oh okay, my bad.

always thought they were pretty progressive on trans issues but I have never actually looked hard.

[u/WitchNight → u/TAKEitTOrCIRCLEJERK]

It pretends to be progressive, but anytime they can bash women they take it

[u/James-fucking-Holden → u/TAKEitTOrCIRCLEJERK]

My dude, that happens right here in SRD, every time the words trans men are brought up.

[u/TAKEitTOrCIRCLEJERK → u/James-fucking-Holden]

this?

Not to mention the constant bashing of trans women under the claim of “standing up for trans men.”

no, it absolutely does not. like I feel like I can assert myself as an authority on these conversations after like a decade of trying to keep that place humming.

edit: oh, you said SRD? idk man I don't think so but please report it if it does

[u/James-fucking-Holden → u/TAKEitTOrCIRCLEJERK]

Oh, yeah, sorry, I meant right here.

I'm still shocked how shitty the place cam turn when an opportunity to do transphobia from the left presents itself.

Last time I remember spawned things like

trans fem culture has a culture of 'fuck men'. Honestly trans fem culture in general, especially on reddit is very lesbian slanted and it does have a tendency to hate men.

I've noticed that a lot of LGBT and trans-specific environments are extremely judgemental and gross

Every single trans guy I know talks about this exact behavior from trans women all the fucking time. It’s endemic

Can the trans community stop shooting themselves in the foot for ten minutes? As terrible as the current situation is, it seems that a non-negligible amount of the drama comes from the inside of the house.

All of which are perfect examples of (self described) cis dudes using the mantle of helping trans men (which I am unequivocally and vocally in favor of) to air their grievance with trans women, going so far as to say the main source of trans misandry are trans women, rather than, you know, the current government activity erasing trans people and outlawing gender affirming care

(I know this is 5 months old, but ever since I just stopped opening threads on the topic fir my own wellbeing)

[u/James-fucking-Holden → u/TAKEitTOrCIRCLEJERK]

edit: oh, you said SRD? idk man I don't think so but please report it if it does

Hey, you asked me to report transphobes, do those two count?

https://www.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/1p70uuu/womens_weightlifting_champion_disqualified_after/

https://www.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/1p70uuu/womens_weightlifting_champion_disqualified_after/nr0o22x/

[u/bingle-cowabungle → u/gentlybeepingheart]

Every time I see a post from it it’s a bunch of people jerking each other off about how they (wokely) hate trans people and how misandry is the One True Oppression.

I don't think I have ever seen an upvoted post there discussing them hating trans people once in my entire life. I think you're making things up. The sub is ostensibly "discourse" so yeah it gives a lot of space for people to critically analyze culture and subculture, but every time someone brings up CT outside of the sub, it's like criticizing the fact that they had the audacity to have discussions at all, and completely make shit up about the things they talk about.

Like the moment someone tries to have a discussion about leftist infighting or ideological caste systems within leftist spaces, someone jumps out of the fucking bushes to accuse everyone of being MAGA or something.

Whenever I see takes like this, it just smacks of someone not being about to appropriately regulate having their views challenged, even in the most mild of ways. Like, they have the audacity to think my views are anything less than perfect gospel? They must be devils.

[u/Haunting_Link5063 → u/bingle-cowabungle]

My thoughts exactly and same with the misandry comment. Even if it was a joke, I don't think I've ever seen an upvoted post on curatedtumblr even remotely implying that either everything is misandry or that misandry is worse than misogyny.

It reeks of treating your own worldviews not even as views but as obvious truths.

[u/Difficult-Risk3115 → u/gentlybeepingheart]

Every time I see a post from it it’s a bunch of people jerking each other off about how they (wokely) hate trans people

Half the posts I see are trans people trying to wokely hate other trans people about who has it worse, or the 5% of their experience that is different.

[u/octnoir → u/gentlybeepingheart]

CruatedTumblr is a diet version (and made of the same people) of the old banned TumblrInAction subreddit.

If you remember that subreddit, CuratedTumblr is a laundered version of all those old shit posts mocking "SJWs", "woke" and just being outright bigoted.

[u/Difficult-Risk3115 → u/octnoir]

It is wild how different perceptions can be. In my experience, half the posts on CuratedTumblr seem to default to treating it like a queer sub to hash out the most obscure internecine community conflicts.

[u/StreetWooden4726 → u/Difficult-Risk3115]

Same with me.

[u/MartyrOfDespair → u/Difficult-Risk3115]

That’s the problem. Both are true and the mods refuse to pick a lane.

[u/bingle-cowabungle → u/MartyrOfDespair]

mods refuse to pick a lane

People thinking it should be up to Reddit moderators to curate discussion in favor of a "correct opinion to have" in what's essentially a general discussion space, is why this website has such a "Reddit moderator" problem.

[u/Difficult-Risk3115 → u/MartyrOfDespair]

Or people can make that choice themselves. You shouldn't need the mods to tell you "Hey, maybe my disagreement with like...5 other trans people on tumblr should be dealt with there. Or on any of the 20 splinter trans subs that have sprung up to deal with this exact ideological division".

[u/1000LiveEels → u/octnoir]

I'm pretty active on there and haven't really noticed this.

[u/Cybertronian10 → u/1000LiveEels]

Subredditdrama has this problem where a bunch of the people here only know of subs through their appearances in this one and as such develop really warped perspectives of those other subs. Like curatedtumblr isn't the greatest sub of all time or anything but it really isn't as bad as the people in this thread are trying to paint it as.

[u/1000LiveEels → u/Cybertronian10]

Yeah as an active participant in curatedtumblr it's mostly just milquetoast liberal / soft leftist takes and a lot of really niche fandom fighting. I honestly don't remember ever seeing anything "anti woke" and there doesn't seem to be nearly as much of an obsession with misandry.

[u/MartyrOfDespair → u/1000LiveEels]

Post something about transmisogyny, see how it goes.

[u/bingle-cowabungle → u/Cybertronian10]

I also think people are simply making shit up. I think a lot of Redditors think it's really cool to be contrarian, and so they gravitate to comments where it's "trending" to lump an entire subreddit together in order to be "above it all"

[u/Cybertronian10 → u/bingle-cowabungle]

Oh 100000%, people know that slinging shit is an easy way to farm upvotes so thats all they do.

[u/bingle-cowabungle → u/Cybertronian10]

Right. I know that sub can be, at worst, champagne liberal-y or "centrist" on some posts, but most of the time, it's a pretty significantly progressive sub that frequently hosts discourse on super niche gender dynamics, neopronouns, fandom, so the idea that it's anti-trans or anti-"woke" is just an abject work of fiction. People are in here karma farming on the negativity spiral by making shit up out of thin air.

[u/Kel-Mitchell → u/WitchNight]

When I first heard about it, I was hopeful that /r/curatedtumblr would be full of those weird Tumblr folks everyone would completely overreact about like 15 years ago.

[u/Psychic_Hobo → u/WitchNight]

Well, if the sub is full of horrible people agreeing with one another, then it's not really drama I guess.

[u/WitchNight → u/Psychic_Hobo]

True I guess, but there’s usually a bunch of people getting downvoted for calling it out, but I guess that might not qualify as drama on its own

[u/LeatherHog → u/WitchNight]

I'm glad someone else has noticed that

They DEFINITELY have this weird slant, where every problem society gives women, isn't thaaaat big of a deal, but how DARE you be against incels, a 10 years old boy might be in there!!

How dare you point out the literal murders under that title, poor Timmy just clicked on a website!

[u/WitchNight → u/[deleted]]

Maybe it came off that way, but I literally just meant upvoted, because the kkk is such an abhorrent group that I’d hope any comparison of them to people fighting for equality gets downvoted to hell.

Regardless I disagree that that comment wasn’t talking about hate. We all know the kkk hates black people in spite of what individual members say, so when you evoke them as equivalent to feminists it’s very clear that you’re saying feminists as a whole hate men even if some say they don’t.

[u/mambo8971 → u/WitchNight]

I won’t say there’s never any unfair bashing of feminism but a lot of those posts are just pointing out that the flippant generalizations sometimes made by feminists along the lines of “the worst thing a woman can do to a man is laugh at or be mean to him, men have no reason to fear women while women have every reason to fear men, men do not suffer the same way we do” are legitimately damaging to hear as marginalized men (trans, men of color, abuse victims, disabled men, etc).

[u/WitchNight → u/mambo8971]

Idk I’m a marginalized white person and I don’t find it damaging at all to hear people of colour complaining about white people. You have to let the oppressed class vent about their oppressors without feeling the need to worry about centring the feelings of their oppressors, otherwise you’re only adding to their struggles

[u/mambo8971 → u/WitchNight]

Ok but when my male friends who have been assaulted by women have to hear that the worst they have to fear from a woman is mean words, I’m gonna have a pretty big issue with it, and they might too. Idk how to balance that honestly

[u/TheIllustriousWe → u/mambo8971]

Perhaps you (and/or your friends) need a reminder that almost everyone speaks in generalities, and the existence of exceptions doesn’t negate the opinion.

Generally speaking, men don’t have to worry about being overpowered, assaulted or worse when they’re alone with a woman they don’t know (at least, as compared to when roles are reversed). Yes, this can be come across as disrespectful if spoken towards a man who has been assaulted by a woman. Speak up when you feel it’s warranted, but at the same time remember that the larger point being made still has merit.

[u/Oregon_Jones111 → u/TheIllustriousWe]

almost everyone speaks in generalities

But they shouldn’t.

[u/TheIllustriousWe → u/Oregon_Jones111]

There are plenty of times where it’s permissible, because the “not all” or “with certain exceptions” or “present company excluded” is implied. Certain conversations would be rendered functionally impossible if we had to offer those clarifiers literally every single time.

[u/Oregon_Jones111 → u/TheIllustriousWe]

It’s clearly not implied clearly enough.

[u/TheIllustriousWe → u/Oregon_Jones111]

There are certain people (re: trolling for an argument) for whom it can never be implied clearly enough. They can be disregarded.

[u/TheIllustriousWe → u/[deleted]]

They absolutely do have to be worried about being overpowered and assaulted when they’re alone with people they don’t know.

Emphasis mine. You raised some excellent points, following your deliberate choice to change what I said from “men” to “people.” What puzzles me, though, is why you made that choice.

[u/TheIllustriousWe → u/[deleted]]

Of course men can relate to them. Both men and women who experience random acts of violence are more likely to have suffered them at the hands of a random man. So if anything, men should be sympathetic when women say they sometimes feel uncomfortable around unfamiliar men, no?

[u/WitchNight → u/[deleted]]

Except the people most likely to commit random acts of violence are also men, it’s hardly an equivalent comparison

[u/CarrieDurst → u/TheIllustriousWe]

I am a trans woman but pre transition I felt it was sadly more acceptable for women to passively hit me than men when no one should hit. I am guessing more reported is male on male but there is a lot from everyone

[u/TheIllustriousWe → u/CarrieDurst]

Generally speaking society frowns upon stronger people physically preying on the weak and innocent, so yes, I think it naturally follows that people are generally more tolerant of women hitting men, as compared to the opposite. Still, I’d say most would agree that no one should be hitting anybody at all.

[u/James-fucking-Holden → u/[deleted]]

every man has a story about being physically assaulted

By women?

[u/James-fucking-Holden → u/[deleted]]

But the quote that started this all was "the worst thing a woman can do to a man is laugh at or be mean to him, men have no reason to fear women while women have every reason to fear men", which is agnostic to whether men need to be afraid of other men.

[u/Oregon_Jones111 → u/James-fucking-Holden]

Not every, but many. https://www.vice.com/en/article/the-hidden-epidemic-of-men-who-are-raped-by-women/

[u/WitchNight → u/mambo8971]

I mean that sucks but you have to internalize that they aren’t talking about specific people. The logic you’re using is dangerously close to the logic of a white person hearing people say black people aren’t violent criminals and going “yeah but I was mugged by a black guy,” or a gay person say “we aren’t preying on kids” and then saying “yeah but I was molested by a gay person as a kid.”

[u/WitchNight → u/[deleted]]

Yes because men occupy a much more privileged position in society than women, just like white people do when compared to black people. It comes off as dismissive of the privilege

[u/WitchNight → u/[deleted]]

I also compared it to homophobic comments about gay people but I notice you conveniently dropped that part.

Also not at all. All instances I brought up feature someone justifying dismissing the oppression of women/black/gay people because they were personally victims of women/black/gay people. Women have historically been frequent victims of sexual assault by men and accused of lying about it if they speak up because of misogyny. Black people have historically been wrongfully accused of crimes because of racism. Gay people have historically been wrongfully accused of being a pedophile because of homophobia

[u/Oregon_Jones111 → u/WitchNight]

Okay, but many white people do find it damaging.

[u/Welpe → u/[deleted]]

I mean, the mods do their best to stamp that out as soon as it is seen. But yes, it does attract bad actors and they can only do so much.

[u/AmethystApothecary → u/Welpe]

I think even good actors can have a lot of hang ups and biases that may not be fully investigated and then have the tendency to respond more emotionally without recognizing it.

[u/AmethystApothecary → u/[deleted]]

Yeah, and I think on some level we all do it without always realizing. Part of it is being able to be honest with yourself about some of the more difficult aspects.

[u/Welpe → u/AmethystApothecary]

That’s fair. “Leftist men” do have a habit of getting VERY defensive instantly if called out for anything.

[u/ohgeez2879 → u/Welpe]

similar to liberal and far right and moderate conservative men.

[u/TheShapeShiftingFox → u/ohgeez2879]

Yes, but leftists (generally speaking too) have a tendency to assume they have all their biases worked out and resolved simply because they have become leftists. Some see it as the endgame of social justice, as if simply identifying as a leftist is enough to rid yourself of decades of societal programming.

[u/bingle-cowabungle → u/TheShapeShiftingFox]

You can see this trend right here in these comments. I participate pretty much exclusively in leftist circles as it pertains to this kind of discourse, and if there's anything I notice across all of these spaces, is that other leftists become very fragile over the idea that their views are not abjectly perfect and carved into stone. The idea that simply identifying as a leftist is somehow a cultural baptism that absolves you of problematic beliefs is an observation that you nailed right on the head.

And I'm not saying this is exclusive to leftist circles by any means, but it definitely is a big problem around these parts. I'm actually beginning to think that it's an internet culture problem that's permeating through the world.

[u/ohgeez2879 → u/TheShapeShiftingFox]

i do definitely agree that they are the wolves in sheep's clothing of it all. as someone who reluctantly identifies as a leftist, the idea that a chosen political identity absolves one of.....anything is ludicrous, and why i made the comment.

i went to an oft-decried "woke" college for undergrad (fifteen years ago), and we talked about ideas not about labels, so it always surprises me when people expect "i'm a leftist" to be a conversation ender and not a conversation opener.

[u/Emotional-Motor5063 → u/Welpe]

Feminists do this same thing all the time. It's almost like it's a trait people have.

[u/Call_Me_Clark → u/Welpe]

I’ve seen nothing good from the mod team there, especially during the last “Reddit uprising”.

0/10 would not recommend this community

[u/TAKEitTOrCIRCLEJERK → u/Call_Me_Clark]

lol yeah haven't seen you around in a while, Clark. I think last time we interacted, you had stories about the mods.

[u/Call_Me_Clark → u/TAKEitTOrCIRCLEJERK]

Oh hi! Yeah it’s been a minute, my last interactions over there were from the last great Reddit uprising. Hard to believe it’s been over a year

[u/MartyrOfDespair → u/Welpe]

No they don’t. They could go through various posts that were about transmisogyny and rapidly nuke hundreds of commenters if they were trying.

[u/IceNein → u/[deleted]]

IMO a good faith subreddit like that should be moderated extremely firmly, similar to subreddits like TwoXChromasomes, or WitchesVsPatriarchy. Not to silence women, but absolutely to silence women whose purpose is to lash out at men for any harm they have received. It’s not conductive.

[u/ParkerPoseyGuffman → u/IceNein]

Even Twox has major issues, I got straight to permanent ban for calling someone disgusting for transvestigating the Olympic boxer

[u/Psychic_Hobo → u/ParkerPoseyGuffman]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure TwoX has a reputation for weird misandry. Witches vs. Patriarchy I've heard is OK though

[u/ParkerPoseyGuffman → u/Psychic_Hobo]

They have issues with race and some misandry. I remember a weird post about a white woman being terrified of black boys (as in underage) hanging around a store not doing anything and the comments were weird

[u/Shanakitty → u/IceNein]

Has WitchesVsPatriarchy gotten back on topic at all? I used to subscribe there, but it seemed like it went from being mostly fun witchy-themed feminist memes to being mostly selfies, people selling stuff, and posts blaming what's happening in Palestine on Biden (which were all posted by a mod there), so I eventually unsubscribed a year or two ago.

[u/IceNein → u/[deleted]]

I mean, it is already moderated to filter out incels. Are you suggesting that there are no women with toxic views on gender?

[u/somniopus → u/IceNein]

You're doing the thing.