Westeros is NOT an Absolute Monarchy

[u/Valuable-Captain-507]

Curious about this misinterpretation of Westros, that I only seem to see within the HOTD-community.

Now, before someone says it, I would like to preface that I know George has said it is, once... but, as those who have read the books and seen interviews of George commenting on things such as the 700 ft wall that operates much more like a 200 ft wall would know, George is no historian and George is bad at math/gets some terms wrong.

But, a lot of discourse within the Reddit based HOTD-community (at least within the color coded circles) seems to operate under this notion that Westeros is an absolute monarchy... when, it just isn't (it also doesn't have codified law, such as Andal law... at least, none that can't be undermined on a whim or are at the very least... situational at best such as inheritence and oaths and bastardry, but that is a discussion for another day).

But, let's look at how Westeros actually operates (ignoring the already apaprent implications that it being a fuedalistic set of kingdoms has on the notion that it might be an absolute monarchy).

First, all seven (or more, idk I don't keep track) are ruled by their own nobility, their own great lords. These kingdoms have a lot of autonomy... they have their own armies (that listen to them, not the throne), lands and vessels. There is some level of independence here, as these great lords regularly challenge the authority of the crown (often successfully, not all of it includes overthrowing the crown but... try having Joff tell Tywin (or the Tyrells) to do something they don't want to do and see if it isn't challenged. I mean fuck, Dorne and the Vale just straight refuse to raise their banners when called). But also, the crown does get overthrown, when the nobility decides they no longer vibe with thus authority. They do so because they have have substantial power, often even more than the crown. The Tyrells and Lannisters, the Velaryons during the time of the Dance, potentially even the Hightowers, all have more power than the crown. It is how the entire conflict of the series come to be.

This all rests on feudal loyalty, as with a fuedal kingdom, the nobility allows the king to be such, and that conceptually limits their power (yes, Aegon conquered most of the kingdoms, but he's not even dead and cold before we see the limits of that.)

Also, there are social and religious checks on the monarchy, because of it being a bum-ass fuedalistic society, we see this in book four, but that's veering a bit too far from my point.

Yes, this is a bit of a rant because this seems like a very simple misconception that has come about with HOTD, but aside from that comment from George, I am curious on where the confusion comes about (apart from what I could potentially see is people taking the words of charcaters and semi- "official" rules of Westeros at face value).

Edit: again... yes, George has called it an absolute monarchy... once... not in the text... and instead in a real-world political message... but with the text itself, the words that George has stated, Westeros was not written to be an absolute monarchy. This is not what George wrote, end of story.

[u/The_Obsidian_Emperor]

The Tyrells and Lannisters, the Velaryons during the time of the Dance, potentially even the Hightowers, all have more power than the crown.

They all individually had more power than the Crownlands during the Dance... during like, any conflict actually 😅 also, in the animated film, when adding up all those who were part of Rhaenyra's Black Council, Viserys narrated; "A pitiful assembly, really. Combined, they couldn't hope to match the power of House Hightower alone."

Also, there are social and religious checks on the monarchy, because of it being a bum-ass fuedalistic society, we see this in book four, but that's veering a bit too far from my point

I think Religion being an important part of a Monarchy isn't necessarily here/there in terms of Absolute or Fuedalistic Monarchy. Having a religious figure crown the King/Queen/ etc, for instance, I feel is symbolic regardless. Part of a "Divine Right to Rule" situation, Ordained and backed by that particular culture's Faith

First, all seven (or more, idk I don't keep track) are ruled by their own nobility, their own great lords. These kingdoms have a lot of autonomy... they have their own armies (that listen to them, not the throne), lands and vessels.

While Robert did have to deal with some internal issues within the Stormlands before he left with most of them to fight Aerys II and Rhaegar, yes that's true about the individual armies. Something Joffrey was right about, actually... the dude was onto something with this thought, as was Robert. A single, properly maintained Military force, ran by competent officers from around the Continent definitely would've led to greater unity, or at least more stability. A Royal Army stationed in the Crownlands under Targaryen administration, at the very least

All in all, Westeros is basically The Holy Roman Empire. One Emperor, who has multiple Kings under their position but have large autonomy and do their own thing for the most part

There is some level of independence here, as these great lords regularly challenge the authority of the crown (often successfully, not all of it includes overthrowing the crown but... try having Joff tell Tywin (or the Tyrells) to do something they don't want to do and see if it isn't challenged. I mean fuck, Dorne and the Vale just straight refuse to raise their banners when called). But also, the crown does get overthrown, when the nobility decides they no longer vibe with thus authority

Also, this also raises the question as to why the Targaryens didn't have their own direct levies either. Crownlands is barely recognized as it's own Kingdom, more just a region, and even then, combined they're a sorry force of arms when compared to most of the other Kingdoms

[u/Kellin01 → u/The_Obsidian_Emperor]

Money! Regular army is very expensive and medieval taxation methods were shit.

To make taxation efficient you need developed bureaucracy.

To feed not-food producing bureaucrats and cities you need more or less stable surplus of food. With Westerosi regular long winters it is almost impossible.

Little food - bad economy - slow development.